Why I won't buy and play Diablo III

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#1 Posted by dr_mantas (1989 posts) -

Never mind the online issues... It's a question of ethics and making money on the addictive properties of the game, when REAL money comes into question.

I feel this talk by Jonathan Blow influenced me a damn lot.

I mean to post this here for a while, but don't really have time to right a long argument right now.

#2 Posted by Totori (559 posts) -

so your worried that you'll spend your life saving paying for items in a game?

#3 Posted by Akrid (1356 posts) -

It really is dastardly how addictive they made this game. Fortunately for me, I'm beginning to cool on it, but I could see plenty just destroying their lives playing it.

#4 Posted by YI_Orange (1163 posts) -

How is it unethical? They're a business. They're not stealing your money, they're actually giving you a way to MAKE money. It keeps getting pushed back to the point where it's possible we'll never see it which means they have some issues with it, and I bet it isn't entirely technical(though it could be).

#5 Posted by GooieGreen (454 posts) -

I agree with the ethical issue of intentionally making a game with addictive properties, but such an aspect has gone largely unregulated. I think the bigger concern is that there are plenty of people who are predisposed to obsessions. Gaming, web browsing, and more are simple ways are less traditional venues that impact humans on a physiological level. But the science behind it all doesn't seem that clear or conclusive. This is a more than compelling argument and I am for continued research on children and young adults when it comes to media.

#6 Posted by ColinWright (741 posts) -

Just don't use the auction house? They're not tricking people into buying things, it's a choice of convenience. There's no moral ambiguity. 

#7 Posted by Aronman789 (2687 posts) -

My level of addictive personality actually solves its own problem. I get so into a game that I will play it almost religiously for days until I burn myself on it, at which point I no longer have any interest in it and my problem is solved.

#8 Posted by Irvandus (2882 posts) -

Just play how you want to play. I myself don't play for more then about an hour, it's a self choice, no ones brain washing you.

#9 Posted by themangalist (1739 posts) -

Clicking shit for many hours straight isn't my thing, never was and never will be. There's no need to think Blizzard is brainwashing us and taking over the world, there are people like me who just don't like these type of games.

#10 Posted by Toxeia (730 posts) -

I don't understand the problem with ethics. You're also against every Free to Play model out there too then, right? Or is it all games, because that's the only way you couldn't be a hypocrite about it. Every game that's been developed does its best to be addictive. There have been studies on the effects of video games and how they cause the brain to react. If you don't want to support something because it's addictive and you think that maybe the $60 on a game could be best spent else where (towards an education, feeding the hungry, etc.) then you should get rid of all your video games. Don't come out against Diablo or Blizzard for it when it's really an entire industry that you should be disgusted with.

#11 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

@Irvandus said:

Just play how you want to play. I myself don't play for more then about an hour, it's a self choice, no ones brain washing you.

Good, now that you have said that, I release you from your contract.

#12 Posted by EXTomar (4863 posts) -

Some people are predisposed to being addicted to eBay auctions. Why is no one asking the ethics of online commerce?

#13 Posted by Syntax12345 (22 posts) -

This is asinine. They're not doing anything unethical here.

If you're too stupid to understand that you're predisposed to addiction (getting addicted to a videogame is fucking pathetic, by the way) then it's nobody's fault but your own if you get hooked and lose money because of it.

Stop blaming others for your own inadequacies or immaturity.

#14 Posted by doobie (605 posts) -

@themangalist said:

Clicking shit for many hours straight isn't my thing, never was and never will be. There's no need to think Blizzard is brainwashing us and taking over the world, there are people like me who just don't like these type of games.

nearly every PC game i ever played involves clicking my mouse.

#15 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7099 posts) -
@Syntax12345

This is asinine. They're not doing anything unethical here.

If you're too stupid to understand that you're predisposed to addiction (getting addicted to a videogame is fucking pathetic, by the way) then it's nobody's fault but your own if you get hooked and lose money because of it.

Stop blaming others for your own inadequacies or immaturity.

Yep! You know how I've managed to avoid being sucked into the AH?i haven't fucking used it. Shit, I've only looked at it once. It's not hard to avoid it. You just do.
#16 Edited by Akyho (1678 posts) -

@dr_mantas said:

Never mind the online issues... It's a question of ethics and making money on the addictive properties of the game, when REAL money comes into question.

I fully understand your reasoning. However...its a little late. MMORPG's have been doing it for ages. You can argue that there is only a set amount you can spend a month...not realy.

Serial MMORPG players who are commited to one MMO. Can pay for several accounts at the one time. There is a roof to that.

However.....your also a little late to the party again. As Freemium games are the real culprits vs what Blizzard are doing..

I played Star Trek online for free, I spent $15 on it. I shouldn't have except I did. I was tempted to spend more. Except I reasoned myself out of it, I hut lvl 50 could have done more however I was afraid of my bank account and my time. So I quit.

Mass effect 3 multiplayer! Pay $2 and receive RANDOM items. I spent $4, Good thing I dont have much Microsoft points for the option to go bad happens.

One of the first examples of AAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLL this. Team Fortress 2....more so once they introduced crates and keys. I myself have dropped $10 and that was it. Temptation is there...however I have stopped myself.

Hell some games DLC's are starting to get much like all this.

I am a well rounded individual towards addictions. However people with an addictive personalities. This all is a bad thing.

So my advice. If you are standing to this reason for Diablo 3. Make a list of games that I have mentioned and other ones. Since those too are games that dabble in this ethical nightmare. Diablo isnt the only one.

Thankfully for me. The virtual Gold I earn is significant enough for me. As Ill just blow it on the normal gold auction house. Then again I dont have much real money.

#17 Posted by AngelN7 (2970 posts) -

selfcontrol... that doesn't exist

#18 Posted by dr_mantas (1989 posts) -

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Syntax12345

This is asinine. They're not doing anything unethical here.

If you're too stupid to understand that you're predisposed to addiction (getting addicted to a videogame is fucking pathetic, by the way) then it's nobody's fault but your own if you get hooked and lose money because of it.

Stop blaming others for your own inadequacies or immaturity.

Yep! You know how I've managed to avoid being sucked into the AH?i haven't fucking used it. Shit, I've only looked at it once. It's not hard to avoid it. You just do.

It's true they aren't actively forcing you.

But I feel that gaming doesn't need to become more similar to gambling, with reward loops and sums of money getting involved. Of course gambling is legal in most of the free world, and you can say that no one forces you to do it, but there are people addicted to gambling. And I don't think that's OK.

It's all just a question of ethics to me, and my personal opinion.

#19 Posted by dr_mantas (1989 posts) -

I feel some people misunderstood the point of my post. I'm not afraid of getting addicted to Diablo III.

I'm not gonna buy it because I'm against it on principle. You could say I'm boycotting, although I loath the word.

#20 Posted by Stete (748 posts) -

Frankly I don't see a point in a real money auction house, like at all, unless you're so goddamn opulent that you have to just throw money away or you have such a crippling addiction that you need to get help immediately. And considering how low people can get, there will be cases where lives and whole families will be utterly devasted just because daddy spend all the mortgage money on epic loot so he can kill Izual on Inferno. So ye, one can see this as a really horrible way of taking advantage of people with serious issues, but then again it's up to them to wise up and not use the damn thing.

Just to be clear though, I think the real money auction house is a terrible idea, and I hope it either never materialises or just crash and burns when it's released. However I am fairly certain that even if it comes out and is a big success, then that won't change on how much I enjoy the game.

#21 Posted by CaptainObvious (2999 posts) -

Jonathan Blow propably wishes he came up with this first.

#22 Posted by Spoonman671 (4711 posts) -

Yeah, you could blame the game.  Or, people could just act like grown-ups.

#23 Edited by Syntax12345 (22 posts) -

@dr_mantas said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Syntax12345

This is asinine. They're not doing anything unethical here.

If you're too stupid to understand that you're predisposed to addiction (getting addicted to a videogame is fucking pathetic, by the way) then it's nobody's fault but your own if you get hooked and lose money because of it.

Stop blaming others for your own inadequacies or immaturity.

Yep! You know how I've managed to avoid being sucked into the AH?i haven't fucking used it. Shit, I've only looked at it once. It's not hard to avoid it. You just do.

It's true they aren't actively forcing you.

But I feel that gaming doesn't need to become more similar to gambling, with reward loops and sums of money getting involved. Of course gambling is legal in most of the free world, and you can say that no one forces you to do it, but there are people addicted to gambling. And I don't think that's OK.

It's all just a question of ethics to me, and my personal opinion.

I'm a recovering alcoholic.

Say I take another drink and fall back into it. The companies selling this alcohol are constantly profiting off of it and feeding it.

So who's fault is it if I fall back into it?

Mine. Because the moment I take another drink is the moment I lack the self control to not.

What's hard to grasp about personal responsibility? I'm not calling the booze industry unethical because some people (me included) lack self control.

Also, if this is even a blip on your ethical radar, you need to prioritize.

#24 Posted by Hunkulese (2797 posts) -

@dr_mantas said:

I feel some people misunderstood the point of my post. I'm not afraid of getting addicted to Diablo III.

I'm not gonna buy it because I'm against it on principle. You could say I'm boycotting, although I loath the word.

I loathe idiots who boycott stupid things for asinine reasons that they don't actually understand and then act all high and mighty about it.

#25 Posted by SpaceJamLunchbox (127 posts) -

That video doesn't make me want to play Diablo 3 any less, but thank you for posting it! I found it fascinating!

#26 Posted by themangalist (1739 posts) -

@doobie said:

@themangalist said:

Clicking shit for many hours straight isn't my thing, never was and never will be. There's no need to think Blizzard is brainwashing us and taking over the world, there are people like me who just don't like these type of games.

nearly every PC game i ever played involves clicking my mouse.

ooh you know what i mean. There are games where you forget you're clicking a mouse and believe you're doing something, and there are games that's really just clicking a whole bunch. I think of Diablo as the latter, I don't know about you... nothing about Diablo's world and gameplay make me think any different.

#27 Posted by Turambar (6813 posts) -
@themangalist said:

@doobie said:

@themangalist said:

Clicking shit for many hours straight isn't my thing, never was and never will be. There's no need to think Blizzard is brainwashing us and taking over the world, there are people like me who just don't like these type of games.

nearly every PC game i ever played involves clicking my mouse.

ooh you know what i mean. There are games where you forget you're clicking a mouse and believe you're doing something, and there are games that's really just clicking a whole bunch. I think of Diablo as the latter, I don't know about you... nothing about Diablo's world and gameplay make me think any different.

I have yet to find a single game that somehow makes me forget I'm playing a video game.
#28 Posted by Turambar (6813 posts) -
@dr_mantas said:

I feel some people misunderstood the point of my post. I'm not afraid of getting addicted to Diablo III.

I'm not gonna buy it because I'm against it on principle. You could say I'm boycotting, although I loath the word.

That's fine.  I just find your principle dumb in this context.
#29 Posted by alternate (2717 posts) -

You come across awful smug, if you don't mind me saying.

#30 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

@themangalist: D3 has very active and engaging gameplay thank you very much.

#31 Posted by dr_mantas (1989 posts) -

@alternate said:

You come across awful smug, if you don't mind me saying.

Sorry, English isn't my first language.

Also I LOVE GAMES. Don't think I'm dissing games, Diablo III, or people who play Diablo III.

I thought I wasn't that confrontational.

#32 Edited by Hector (3366 posts) -

You don't have to pay for anything in Diablo III besides purchasing the game itself. If you choose to buy items with real money that's up to you no one is forcing you too.

#33 Posted by Talis12 (488 posts) -

right?

#34 Posted by doobie (605 posts) -

@dr_mantas said:

@alternate said:

You come across awful smug, if you don't mind me saying.

Sorry, English isn't my first language.

Also I LOVE GAMES. Don't think I'm dissing games, Diablo III, or people who play Diablo III.

I thought I wasn't that confrontational.

so what is your point exactly then.

#35 Posted by aquamarin (555 posts) -

Between this and other recent threads about the endgame I think I made the right decision not buying this game, I'd be way too into it.

#36 Posted by dr_mantas (1989 posts) -

@doobie said:

@dr_mantas said:

@alternate said:

You come across awful smug, if you don't mind me saying.

Sorry, English isn't my first language.

Also I LOVE GAMES. Don't think I'm dissing games, Diablo III, or people who play Diablo III.

I thought I wasn't that confrontational.

so what is your point exactly then.

potato

#37 Posted by doobie (605 posts) -

@dr_mantas said:

@doobie said:

@dr_mantas said:

@alternate said:

You come across awful smug, if you don't mind me saying.

Sorry, English isn't my first language.

Also I LOVE GAMES. Don't think I'm dissing games, Diablo III, or people who play Diablo III.

I thought I wasn't that confrontational.

so what is your point exactly then.

potato

then

#38 Posted by iAmJohn (6128 posts) -

@dr_mantas said:

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Syntax12345

This is asinine. They're not doing anything unethical here.

If you're too stupid to understand that you're predisposed to addiction (getting addicted to a videogame is fucking pathetic, by the way) then it's nobody's fault but your own if you get hooked and lose money because of it.

Stop blaming others for your own inadequacies or immaturity.

Yep! You know how I've managed to avoid being sucked into the AH?i haven't fucking used it. Shit, I've only looked at it once. It's not hard to avoid it. You just do.

It's true they aren't actively forcing you.

But I feel that gaming doesn't need to become more similar to gambling, with reward loops and sums of money getting involved. Of course gambling is legal in most of the free world, and you can say that no one forces you to do it, but there are people addicted to gambling. And I don't think that's OK.

It's all just a question of ethics to me, and my personal opinion.

That's a pretty big leap in logic to go from "you can buy items in a game with real money" to "Blizzard is supporting gambling." I mean for one, I think it helps to point out that the real auction house isn't gambling. Like, at all. You go to a place and say "I would like to buy this thing and I'm willing to pay up to $X for it." If no one is willing to pay more, you get it; if someone wants it more than you, you don't. This isn't asking you to spend real money for the chance of getting something you want but probably not, this is just straight commerce. You might as well have made this thread about why you're boycotting eBay or any place that does auctions because that's essentially what you're arguing.

For two, it ignores the fact that this is a market that has existed for years in World of Warcraft and even Diablo II. Some people get so into these games and systems that they are willing to spend real money for the convenience of having something than hopefully picking it up by playing the game over and over again. That market is not going to go away because there are people who want that. The only difference is that now Blizzard officially supports that in a safer, less shady way that could arguably drive prices down. Again, where's the problem here? That some people have addictive personalities and therefore might be driven to go to the real money auction house? Forgive me if I don't understand why Blizzard catering to a market that has already existed and will continue to exist whether you, Blizzard or anyone else likes it or not, a market that you do not need to have any part of if you so choose and will be none the worse for it, is somehow driving people to gambling and financial ruin.

#39 Posted by SuperSambo (2879 posts) -

Good job there are no other addictive things on sale other than Diablo.

#40 Edited by Ares42 (2738 posts) -

I realize he didn't have much time to prepare this lecture or anything, but with both this and his appearance during E3 podcasts last year I just find him extremely incoherent. He makes a lot of half-points and leaves threads hanging. I guess you could consider it "thought provoking", but considering he spoke for about an hour and a quarter there wasn't that many original thoughts brought in.

All in all, while I somewhat agree with his sentiments, I think he's sorta of an unrealistic idealist. Which he even admits to to a certain degree. I might be misentepreting but he seems to be talking in a very polarizing manner where games are either all trappings or not, while I think there's no reason why they can't be both (ultimately making the games better).

#41 Posted by Lukeweizer (2716 posts) -

It's called self control. I love Diablo, but I know what I play it for, and that's the items. I don't want to buy my way through the game. And I sure as hell couldn't justify spending upwards of double-digit prices on items. Which is why I don't play F2P games.

#42 Posted by TooWalrus (13240 posts) -

It's your choice. The real money auction house is nothing but another micro-transaction, only this time, the cash flows both ways, and I'm totally fine with that... if it even happens.

#43 Posted by hoossy (937 posts) -
#44 Posted by mosdl (3229 posts) -

Except of course that the real money auction hosue isn't even working yet...

#45 Posted by pornstorestiffi (4939 posts) -

@MariachiMacabre said:

@Syntax12345

This is asinine. They're not doing anything unethical here.

If you're too stupid to understand that you're predisposed to addiction (getting addicted to a videogame is fucking pathetic, by the way) then it's nobody's fault but your own if you get hooked and lose money because of it.

Stop blaming others for your own inadequacies or immaturity.

Yep! You know how I've managed to avoid being sucked into the AH?i haven't fucking used it. Shit, I've only looked at it once. It's not hard to avoid it. You just do.

True, you would have to be a real weak minded individual to actually just start spending your money on something that is not needed. Just don't use the Auction House, it is pretty simple.

#46 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

+1 for this thread not being about DRM.

#47 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -
#48 Posted by Giantstalker (1696 posts) -

The more people bring him up, the less I care about Jonathan Blow. If Braid is his vision for what games "should" be, I don't want to be a gamer anymore.

#49 Posted by Nicked (257 posts) -

I think what some people are misunderstanding (maybe even the OP), is that even without the real money auction house, Diablo 3 is a hollow experience, and I think there's an argument to be made that it is in some ways "unethical".

Diablo 3 is perpetually unfulfilling so that you will keep playing. You grind to get more loot so that you can grind to get more loot. It's a slot machine with extra levers. If you take away the numbers popping off of enemies, the glowing weapons, etc., you're left with something really hollow. If I told you about a game where you hold the left mouse button for 10 hours until you unlock a harder difficulty where you hold the left mouse button and sometimes press buttons, you ought to say that that sounds like a hollow game.

The game preys on an the player's interest in seeing artificial improvement in characters without intending to educate us or make us better people.

Whether you feel addicted or not is irrelevant. What's more important is that the game is designed to be addictive and manipulative. To design with that intent is kind of malicious.

I'm not arguing that all games should be high art or whatever, but I think it's important to recognize the reality of what Diablo 3 is. (Sorry if this came out as a smattering of thoughts, it's difficult to be concise about this stuff!)

#50 Posted by joshth (508 posts) -

I don't agree with your point at all, but I'm enjoying the video you posted.

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