DmC sells 1/3rd of what DMC4 did in first week in the UK

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#101 Posted by Demoskinos (14561 posts) -
@StarvingGamer Me loving Nero is one reason I like DmC so much. Being able to yank people over to you is just fantastic. Reminded me of Nero a bit.
#102 Posted by Mezmero (1790 posts) -

Who cares what it sells in the UK? I don't you if you've heard but now everyone's Europe.

#103 Posted by Sackmanjones (4652 posts) -

It's not selling great.... Just like every single video game this past year

#104 Edited by Brighty (251 posts) -

@Dookysharpgun said:

I'm pretty sure the money end of things has something to do with it too, given that it's just after the holiday season and people don't want to spend money (I just bought the DMC HD collection yesterday cause it was less than half price) and given that a lot of game-related shops are simply not stocking games anymore, for example; my local HMV didn't stock ACIII, and then closed down after christmas, leaving shops like Gamestop to shoulder the burden - seriously, they can fuck right off, it smells like sweaty man-child in there - I think people are just waiting for games to come down in price, or saving their money for games that are actually look like they're worth the consumer's time. Speaking as someone who bought very few new titles last year, I can tell you that games are overpriced, their development costs are too high, and given the need for people to cut back on spending so that they can, you know, eat, I guess games like DmC needed a little something more to grab attention. Also not pissing on loyal fans, or making a compromise, might have been a better idea than intentionally trolling them and acting like pricks, same can go for the fans, but really, it was a year for devs acting far too defensively in the wake of controversy, too many sites and journalists and contrarians dismissing honest claims, and then there are people like me, who just stopped caring or don't want to pay full-price for a game like this.

Interesting point.

DmC is a good game, and I feel like a lot of the backlash could have been avoided if Ninja Theory hadn't been so antagonistic and, for lack of a better word, trolling the original fans throughout the development process. Going on record saying things like "Dante isn't cool anymore", "I don't care what the fans think", etc. is PR suicide when you're inheriting the reigns of that series and rebooting the main character to look dramatically different and stripping out features that have become a staple of the series. You're isolating the fans of an already niche title and they might have been able to save face if they took a more hands on approach with the fans and listening to what they say. Otherwise its just perpetuating the "us vs. them" mentality for a lot of the older fans, and with the fans thinking that their voices aren't being heard you end getting "movements" like this:

I think that the gaming press never acknowledging any of the fans' concerns and just dismissively saying it was about his hair did not do any favors for Capcom or Ninja Theory, only serving to further push fans away from this game as well. I don't think this was done intentionally by any journalists out of spite, as some fans seem to think, but rather out of ignorance - DMC is a niche title that has limited appeal to the mainstream so its not surprising why your average journalist wouldn't have any idea why fans were so upset other than the character re-design. But again, making the fans feel like their concerns aren't being addressed and even dismissed by a sway of the hand (EventStatus made a huge video about this with a ton of examples of OXM UK and others even antagonizing the fans telling them to stop whining about the hair and calling them "losers" for caring about 60 fps) doesn't really do anything but push them further away from the game.

A great counterpoint to this is how Eidos handled the Deus Ex reboot - when it was first announced it was met with a ton of criticism and backlash considering how dear the original game is to some people. Instead of the devs telling the fans that they didn't care what they thought and that their beloved characters "weren't cool anymore", Eidos consistently and genuinely tried to win over the fans instead of being at a standoff with them, despite having to essentially eat shit with a grin for a good long time. But it paid off, and slowly the naysayers began to come around eventually leading up to a marketing genius (although I doubt they'll ever admit this) leaked out a preview build for the game a month or two out before release finally quelling all fears that this game wouldn't be a faithful reboot. Hell, even to a lesser extent is Metal Gear Rising and how people were wishy-washy on that being handed off to Platnium, but ever since that announcement they've made it a point to showcase features that the fans thought weren't in the game anymore (i.e. showing stealth in the E3 demo, showing the cutting mechanics still there, including a ridiculous amount of codec calls in the demo, etc.) and using Youtube likes/dislikes are a makeshift at-a-glance measure of public opinion, a lot of those naysayers have come around on the game.

Because in the end, fans wanted a new Deus Ex game just like they wanted a new Devil May Cry game - they're both niche titles, yet one kept the fans in check and the other threw them out to dry in the development process. Their anger and vitriol was out of fear in both cases, but only in Eidos' case did it eventually subside before release, and I think if Ninja Theory hadn't been so abysmal at PR with the fans for this game, the reception might be a bit better because this game isn't bad at all. It's pretty good, but it's almost irrelevant to a majority of the potential buyers it would have, because NT has completely burned any remaining bridges with a lot of the original fans. And I think this game's audience is too niche to take the "fuck the haters" approach, and maybe we're seeing it show through now in the lackluster sales - but who can really say until Capcom publishes their sales figures?

#105 Posted by Narx (172 posts) -

Do theses numbers include Digital sales?

#106 Edited by chrissedoff (2075 posts) -

@Taku128 said:

Man, those guys who complain about the new DmC sure are annoying huh? You guys complaining about them complaining are totally cool though and not even more annoying than the people who are vocal about hating the reboot. Nope. Totally way better.

I don't think you get that the very act of complaining isn't inherently bad (to say nothing of the fact that now you're complaining about complaining about complaining, which is just ridiculous). Like, you're sitting behind your keyboard right now with a big grin thinking, "Aha! I caught you complaining about somebody else's complaining! Gotcha hypocrite!" But that's only because you have elected to turn off your critical thinking skills completely and forget that the substance of the complaints is what people care about.

#107 Posted by mrfluke (5089 posts) -

@Brighty said:

@Dookysharpgun said:

I'm pretty sure the money end of things has something to do with it too, given that it's just after the holiday season and people don't want to spend money (I just bought the DMC HD collection yesterday cause it was less than half price) and given that a lot of game-related shops are simply not stocking games anymore, for example; my local HMV didn't stock ACIII, and then closed down after christmas, leaving shops like Gamestop to shoulder the burden - seriously, they can fuck right off, it smells like sweaty man-child in there - I think people are just waiting for games to come down in price, or saving their money for games that are actually look like they're worth the consumer's time. Speaking as someone who bought very few new titles last year, I can tell you that games are overpriced, their development costs are too high, and given the need for people to cut back on spending so that they can, you know, eat, I guess games like DmC needed a little something more to grab attention. Also not pissing on loyal fans, or making a compromise, might have been a better idea than intentionally trolling them and acting like pricks, same can go for the fans, but really, it was a year for devs acting far too defensively in the wake of controversy, too many sites and journalists and contrarians dismissing honest claims, and then there are people like me, who just stopped caring or don't want to pay full-price for a game like this.

Interesting point.

DmC is a good game, and I feel like a lot of the backlash could have been avoided if Ninja Theory hadn't been so antagonistic and, for lack of a better word, trolling the original fans throughout the development process. Going on record saying things like "Dante isn't cool anymore", "I don't care what the fans think", etc. is PR suicide when you're inheriting the reigns of that series and rebooting the main character to look dramatically different and stripping out features that have become a staple of the series. You're isolating the fans of an already niche title and they might have been able to save face if they took a more hands on approach with the fans and listening to what they say. Otherwise its just perpetuating the "us vs. them" mentality for a lot of the older fans, and with the fans thinking that their voices aren't being heard you end getting "movements" like this:

I think that the gaming press never acknowledging any of the fans' concerns and just dismissively saying it was about his hair did not do any favors for Capcom or Ninja Theory, only serving to further push fans away from this game as well. I don't think this was done intentionally by any journalists out of spite, as some fans seem to think, but rather out of ignorance - DMC is a niche title that has limited appeal to the mainstream so its not surprising why your average journalist wouldn't have any idea why fans were so upset other than the character re-design. But again, making the fans feel like their concerns aren't being addressed and even dismissed by a sway of the hand (EventStatus made a huge video about this with a ton of examples of OXM UK and others even antagonizing the fans telling them to stop whining about the hair and calling them "losers" for caring about 60 fps) doesn't really do anything but push them further away from the game.

A great counterpoint to this is how Eidos handled the Deus Ex reboot - when it was first announced it was met with a ton of criticism and backlash considering how dear the original game is to some people. Instead of the devs telling the fans that they didn't care what they thought and that their beloved characters "weren't cool anymore", Eidos consistently and genuinely tried to win over the fans instead of being at a standoff with them, despite having to essentially eat shit with a grin for a good long time. But it paid off, and slowly the naysayers began to come around eventually leading up to a marketing genius (although I doubt they'll ever admit this) leaked out a preview build for the game a month or two out before release finally quelling all fears that this game wouldn't be a faithful reboot. Hell, even to a lesser extent is Metal Gear Rising and how people were wishy-washy on that being handed off to Platnium, but ever since that announcement they've made it a point to showcase features that the fans thought weren't in the game anymore (i.e. showing stealth in the E3 demo, showing the cutting mechanics still there, including a ridiculous amount of codec calls in the demo, etc.) and using Youtube likes/dislikes are a makeshift at-a-glance measure of public opinion, a lot of those naysayers have come around on the game.

Because in the end, fans wanted a new Deus Ex game just like they wanted a new Devil May Cry game - they're both niche titles, yet one kept the fans in check and the other threw them out to dry in the development process. Their anger and vitriol was out of fear in both cases, but only in Eidos' case did it eventually subside before release, and I think if Ninja Theory hadn't been so abysmal at PR with the fans for this game, the reception might be a bit better because this game isn't bad at all. It's pretty good, but it's almost irrelevant to a majority of the potential buyers it would have, because NT has completely burned any remaining bridges with a lot of the original fans. And I think this game's audience is too niche to take the "fuck the haters" approach, and maybe we're seeing it show through now in the lackluster sales - but who can really say until Capcom publishes their sales figures?

yep totally agree, so this game not selling as well as expected is no surprise to me, if ninja theory had just shut their damm mouths, and made that dlc costume thats coming unlock able when you beat the game, there would be very little negative PR.

#108 Posted by Taku128 (793 posts) -

@chrissedoff said:

@Taku128 said:

Man, those guys who complain about the new DmC sure are annoying huh? You guys complaining about them complaining are totally cool though and not even more annoying than the people who are vocal about hating the reboot. Nope. Totally way better.

I don't think you get that the very act of complaining isn't inherently bad (to say nothing of the fact that now you're complaining about complaining about complaining, which is just ridiculous). Like, you're sitting behind your keyboard right now with a big grin thinking, "Aha! I caught you complaining about somebody else's complaining! Gotcha hypocrite!" But that's only because you have elected to turn off your critical thinking skills completely and forget that the substance of the complaints is what people care about.

I don't have a problem with complaining, I have a problem with all the people trying to stifle any criticism people have of the game by telling them to stop whining.

#109 Edited by Phatmac (5721 posts) -

That's a shame considering how awful DMC4 is.

#110 Posted by coakroach (2488 posts) -

Everything in and around this game is fucking insane.

#111 Edited by ProfessorEss (7278 posts) -
@mrfluke said:

...and made that dlc costume thats coming unlock able when you beat the game, there would be very little negative PR.

I obviously don't know, but I highly doubt that was Ninja Theory's decision to make.
#112 Posted by byterunner (300 posts) -

well....the console landscape was much different back then, making it easier for a niche title to sell well, also the economy was a lot different. So

Also, you're fucking crazy OP

#113 Posted by CornBREDX (4793 posts) -

I am still looking forward to playing it on PC.

#114 Posted by MasturbatingestBear (1188 posts) -

@Kankohii said:

It's funny how people have turned around on DMC4 when DmC came out. These are probably the same people who shat on it when it came out (and never played it).

Do you need to have played DMC4 to know that it isn't good?

#115 Posted by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

@phrosnite said:

FUCK YOU.

OH U SO FUNNEH

#116 Posted by GrantHeaslip (1518 posts) -

@Taku128 said:

@chrissedoff said:

@Taku128 said:

Man, those guys who complain about the new DmC sure are annoying huh? You guys complaining about them complaining are totally cool though and not even more annoying than the people who are vocal about hating the reboot. Nope. Totally way better.

I don't think you get that the very act of complaining isn't inherently bad (to say nothing of the fact that now you're complaining about complaining about complaining, which is just ridiculous). Like, you're sitting behind your keyboard right now with a big grin thinking, "Aha! I caught you complaining about somebody else's complaining! Gotcha hypocrite!" But that's only because you have elected to turn off your critical thinking skills completely and forget that the substance of the complaints is what people care about.

I don't have a problem with complaining, I have a problem with all the people trying to stifle any criticism people have of the game by telling them to stop whining.

There’s also a crowd that are straight-up goading the old-school DMC fans, and it’s not cool. It’s one thing to say “hey, you guys are taking this a bit far,” but it’s quite another to gleefully make fun of (in the “your tears, they’re so delicious!” sense) the people who don’t like the new direction.

As much as some of the old-school DMC fans are being unreasonable, the group bullying them are way worse. At least the former group actually stands for something besides taking pleasure in someone else’s disappointment.

#117 Posted by FLStyle (4574 posts) -

@MasturbatingestBear said:

@Kankohii said:

It's funny how people have turned around on DMC4 when DmC came out. These are probably the same people who shat on it when it came out (and never played it).

Do you need to have played DMC4 to know that it isn't good?

Depends on what you're after from a DMC game, I loved DMC4, thought it was excellent.

#118 Posted by Kankohii (65 posts) -

@MasturbatingestBear said:

@Kankohii said:

It's funny how people have turned around on DMC4 when DmC came out. These are probably the same people who shat on it when it came out (and never played it).

Do you need to have played DMC4 to know that it isn't good?

You people really are just as bad as the DmC haters.

#119 Posted by Colourful_Hippie (4330 posts) -

@CornBREDX said:

I am still looking forward to playing it on PC.
#120 Edited by Kankohii (65 posts) -

@GrantHeaslip said:

@Taku128 said:

@chrissedoff said:

@Taku128 said:

Man, those guys who complain about the new DmC sure are annoying huh? You guys complaining about them complaining are totally cool though and not even more annoying than the people who are vocal about hating the reboot. Nope. Totally way better.

I don't think you get that the very act of complaining isn't inherently bad (to say nothing of the fact that now you're complaining about complaining about complaining, which is just ridiculous). Like, you're sitting behind your keyboard right now with a big grin thinking, "Aha! I caught you complaining about somebody else's complaining! Gotcha hypocrite!" But that's only because you have elected to turn off your critical thinking skills completely and forget that the substance of the complaints is what people care about.

I don't have a problem with complaining, I have a problem with all the people trying to stifle any criticism people have of the game by telling them to stop whining.

There’s also a crowd that are straight-up goading the old-school DMC fans, and it’s not cool. It’s one thing to say “hey, you guys are taking this a bit far,” but it’s quite another to gleefully make fun of (in the “your tears, they’re so delicious!” sense) the people who don’t like the new direction.

As much as some of the old-school DMC fans are being unreasonable, the group bullying them are way worse. At least the former group actually stands for something besides taking pleasure in someone else’s disappointment.

Yep.

@Phatmac said:

That's a shame considering how awful DMC4.

@mordukai said:

@Kankohii said:

It's funny how people have turned around on DMC4 when DmC came out. These are probably the same people who shat on it when it came out (and never played it).

I played it DMC4 and shat on it then and will continue to shit on it now. That game was trash.

If I posted "That's a shame considering how awful DmC is." and "I played DmC and shat on it then and will continue to shit on it now. That game is trash." I would be ridiculed.

#121 Edited by Brighty (251 posts) -

@GrantHeaslip said:

@Taku128 said:

@chrissedoff said:

@Taku128 said:

Man, those guys who complain about the new DmC sure are annoying huh? You guys complaining about them complaining are totally cool though and not even more annoying than the people who are vocal about hating the reboot. Nope. Totally way better.

I don't think you get that the very act of complaining isn't inherently bad (to say nothing of the fact that now you're complaining about complaining about complaining, which is just ridiculous). Like, you're sitting behind your keyboard right now with a big grin thinking, "Aha! I caught you complaining about somebody else's complaining! Gotcha hypocrite!" But that's only because you have elected to turn off your critical thinking skills completely and forget that the substance of the complaints is what people care about.

I don't have a problem with complaining, I have a problem with all the people trying to stifle any criticism people have of the game by telling them to stop whining.

There’s also a crowd that are straight-up goading the old-school DMC fans, and it’s not cool. It’s one thing to say “hey, you guys are taking this a bit far,” but it’s quite another to gleefully make fun of (in the “your tears, they’re so delicious!” sense) the people who don’t like the new direction.

As much as some of the old-school DMC fans are being unreasonable, the group bullying them are way worse. At least the former group actually stands for something besides taking pleasure in someone else’s disappointment.

Bingo. Some of the regs on these boards are extremely guilty of this I've noticed, and it's a little messed up. Hell, even Brad was slightly guilty of this in the QL and on his Twitter (although I can understand the knee-jerk why behind it, given how much irrational hate he probably had gotten after publishing his review for daring to enjoy a game, I can see how it would be tempting to push buttons in defense).

Hell, even look at this topic:

It's a white house petition meant to pull DmC from the shelves, a completely stupid and obvious troll that has 8 signatures and needs 100,000... completely unworthy of even the slightest mention, yet it gets its own topic for the sole purpose of "Hey, let's laugh at how dumb and upset these DMC fans are, aren't they pathetic?"

When you really stop and look at the whole picture on both sides of the fence, no party really comes out of this looking decent.

#122 Posted by chrissedoff (2075 posts) -

@Taku128: That's fine. You should have made that more nuanced point before instead.

#123 Posted by Taku128 (793 posts) -

@chrissedoff: I'd usually rather be a sarcastic dick than actually put effort into a post.

#124 Posted by GalacticPunt (1020 posts) -

@Taku128 said:

@chrissedoff: I'd usually rather be a sarcastic dick than actually put effort into a post.

I think we just found the Giant Bomb forums' official credo. Cast that in bronze.

#125 Posted by chrissedoff (2075 posts) -

@GrantHeaslip said:

@Taku128 said:

@chrissedoff said:

@Taku128 said:

Man, those guys who complain about the new DmC sure are annoying huh? You guys complaining about them complaining are totally cool though and not even more annoying than the people who are vocal about hating the reboot. Nope. Totally way better.

I don't think you get that the very act of complaining isn't inherently bad (to say nothing of the fact that now you're complaining about complaining about complaining, which is just ridiculous). Like, you're sitting behind your keyboard right now with a big grin thinking, "Aha! I caught you complaining about somebody else's complaining! Gotcha hypocrite!" But that's only because you have elected to turn off your critical thinking skills completely and forget that the substance of the complaints is what people care about.

I don't have a problem with complaining, I have a problem with all the people trying to stifle any criticism people have of the game by telling them to stop whining.

There’s also a crowd that are straight-up goading the old-school DMC fans, and it’s not cool. It’s one thing to say “hey, you guys are taking this a bit far,” but it’s quite another to gleefully make fun of (in the “your tears, they’re so delicious!” sense) the people who don’t like the new direction.

As much as some of the old-school DMC fans are being unreasonable, the group bullying them are way worse. At least the former group actually stands for something besides taking pleasure in someone else’s disappointment.

As much as I hate trolls and trolling, some people make themselves very easy targets when they become a little bit disconnected with reality and a good chunk of the people moaning about the new DmC fit that description. On the one hand, it's so uncool and stupid to taunt a DMC nerd and go, "5 stars from Brad Shoemaker! What now, bitch!?" but how much sympathy are we supposed to feel for people losing their minds in the comment section for a positive review of a game they haven't even played?

#126 Posted by ThePaleKing (613 posts) -

I think all it proves is how effective a number next to the title is in boosting sales. It's highly, highly unlikely that the majority of people are examining the nuanced facets of story, combo depth, aesthetic between the new DmC and old.

#127 Posted by GrantHeaslip (1518 posts) -

@chrissedoff said:

@GrantHeaslip said:

There’s also a crowd that are straight-up goading the old-school DMC fans, and it’s not cool. It’s one thing to say “hey, you guys are taking this a bit far,” but it’s quite another to gleefully make fun of (in the “your tears, they’re so delicious!” sense) the people who don’t like the new direction.

As much as some of the old-school DMC fans are being unreasonable, the group bullying them are way worse. At least the former group actually stands for something besides taking pleasure in someone else’s disappointment.

As much as I hate trolls and trolling, some people make themselves very easy targets when they become a little bit disconnected with reality and a good chunk of the people moaning about the new DmC fit that description. On the one hand, it's so uncool and stupid to taunt a DMC nerd and go, "5 stars from Brad Shoemaker! What now, bitch!?" but how much sympathy are we supposed to feel for people losing their minds in the comment section for a positive review of a game they haven't even played?

That doesn’t justify the trolling though. If people want the complaining to stop, the correct course of action is to ignore it.

My impression from the original thread was that it was a very small handful that were complaining, and what seemed like an order of magnitude more that were complaining about the complaining. Look how well that turned out.

Like , I don’t have much sympathy for either group, but if I had to pick a side, it would be the one that cares too much, not the one that’s kicking someone when they’re down. Being a cynical jerk who picks on easy targets is a shitty way to live (not calling out anyone here).

#128 Edited by Quarters (1628 posts) -

To all the talk about who's being the bigger bully...I have no issue with people not liking the game, just be objective about it. Gametrailers had a thing the other day, some podcast called The Depths that was devoted to DmC and the reaction around it. One of the dudes on there was a big fan of the old games, played DmC all the way through, and decided that it just wasn't something he preferred personally. Now, he admitted that the game was objectively well made, but it just didn't jibe with him. That's totally cool. He gave the game a shot, calmly and clearly made his points why he didn't like it, and accepted that it wasn't the only way to look at it. If more people were like that, I wouldn't have an issue with it. It's just that a certain segment of the reaction has been extremely immature. And yes, I agree a fraction of both sides have been guilty of it, I probably have been too. Mainly, in my case, I just hate the thought of Ninja Theory getting brought down because of this.

Regardless, the main problem is that people have a hard time separating taste and actual quality of the product. For example: The Walking Dead. I loved that game. It had a very well written story. However, it was also an extremely poor game from a technical standpoint, complete with a plethora of visual/audio hiccups, crippling bugs that prevented some from even finishing it, and the gameplay was basic and stiff as a board. Does that mean I have to hate it? No. I still really enjoyed my time with it.

On that same token, you can completely dislike a game that's competently made. I don't like Bioshock in any way, shape, or form. Does that mean it's a steaming pile? No, it just means I don't like it because it doesn't appeal to me.

The issue is that once a person doesn't like the game on the Internet, it's because it's a horrible game, and if you think different, then you're wrong. And it works the other way around too. People just need to take the hyperbole down a notch.

#129 Posted by Tidel (360 posts) -

@Quarters said:

To all the talk about who's being the bigger bully...I have no issue with people not liking the game, just be objective about it. Gametrailers had a thing the other day, some podcast called The Depths that was devoted to DmC and the reaction around it. One of the dudes on there was a big fan of the old games, played DmC all the way through, and decided that it just wasn't something he preferred personally. Now, he admitted that the game was objectively well made, but it just didn't jibe with him. That's totally cool. He gave the game a shot, calmly and clearly made his points why he didn't like it, and accepted that it wasn't the only way to look at it. If more people were like that, I wouldn't have an issue with it. It's just that a certain segment of the reaction has been extremely immature. And yes, I agree a fraction of both sides have been guilty of it, I probably have been too. Mainly, in my case, I just hate the thought of Ninja Theory getting brought down because of this.

Regardless, the main problem is that people have a hard time separating taste and actual quality of the product. For example: The Walking Dead. I loved that game. It had a very well written story. However, it was also an extremely poor game from a technical standpoint, complete with a plethora of visual/audio hiccups, crippling bugs that prevented some from even finishing it, and the gameplay was basic and stiff as a board. Does that mean I have to hate it? No. I still really enjoyed my time with it.

On that same token, you can completely dislike a game that's competently made. I don't like Bioshock in any way, shape, or form. Does that mean it's a steaming pile? No, it just means I don't like it because it doesn't appeal to me.

The issue is that once a person doesn't like the game on the Internet, it's because it's a horrible game, and if you think different, then you're wrong. And it works the other way around too. People just need to take the hyperbole down a notch.

Nicely said.

#130 Posted by TooWalrus (13135 posts) -

I'm curious about what percentage of buyers were actuually satisfied with their purchace, comparing Devil May Cry 4 and DmC. I know a lot of DmC4 fans were let down, hopefully a lot of the people who bought DmC were plesantly surprised. This game looks rad, I'd like it to do well.

#131 Edited by RioStarwind (485 posts) -

After thinking about it a bit maybe games aren't selling as much now as then? Since it is in the number one spot still so it seems like a overall trend of games not selling as much as they once did. This is just me taking a guess at the cause though heh. Would be interesting to compare this to other franchise reboots just to see if this sold better than they did.

#132 Posted by Dookysharpgun (586 posts) -

@Brighty: That seems like a pretty extensive look into what I was alluding to there, I'd have to agree with you. Eidos did make an effort to make Deus Ex more fan-friendly by at least engaging in a positive manner with the fans who were straddling the edge of outrage and acceptance, and even brought the naysayers to their side. I'm not a huge fan of the game itself, but I appreciate how they went about converting people to the game. The them vs. us mentality never really favours anyone, as everyone feels the burn in the end. The fans feel crappy because the series they want to see continued is not viable anymore, (I felt the same when when Star Wars Battlefront 3 was cancelled) and the devs feels the strain because their actions led to this event unfolding in the worst possible way.

I never really knew DMC was a niche series until now, when I really see the divided community surrounding it and the apparently dismal sales figures, but if that was really the case, then burning bridges with long-time fans was never a plan that was going to benefit anyone. Honestly, I'm shocked it even happened to begin with. The whole point of making games is to create something people will enjoy, and it may even lead to more titles in that series. Why would Ninja Theory cause themselves so much harm by alienating fans like that? Other than pride and bravado that borders on shortsightedness.

Even if the overall sales figures are good, that won't necessarily mean that DmC will get another game either. Given the massive exile of old-school fans and the minimal immigration of new fans (again, going off of this topic's story alone) we're seeing an issue that doesn't benefit a long-term, sustainable series. The people who hate it will still hate it, the vitriol on both sides of the fence will still be there, and nobody will learn their lesson...and if I was the head of Capcom, I'd be attempting to separate myself from as much negative press as possible, so killing the series might be their best idea. Nothing about how this game was handled ever seemed to be beneficial to anyone, I get that there are strange and confusing offenders on both sides that took it way too far, but as you've stated, Deus Ex got a new lease on life because Eidos treated the fans as actual consumers that were concerned about a potential purpose. As for sites and their reactions to controveries like this one, I'm kinda tempted to make a blog post about it, because I've been disgusted with gaming journalism and the industry for the entire year, and how they've handled many situations that never needed to end up the way they did. I feel for the people who want to support the series, but not the game, yet I feel they need not think that way, given that if this is the developer the series has been handed off to, it's not going to be for them anymore. I've been there too, I know it sucks, but that's how the industry is handling games at the moment.

#133 Edited by golguin (3842 posts) -

@Quarters

To all the talk about who's being the bigger bully...I have no issue with people not liking the game, just be objective about it. Gametrailers had a thing the other day, some podcast called The Depths that was devoted to DmC and the reaction around it. One of the dudes on there was a big fan of the old games, played DmC all the way through, and decided that it just wasn't something he preferred personally. Now, he admitted that the game was objectively well made, but it just didn't jibe with him. That's totally cool. He gave the game a shot, calmly and clearly made his points why he didn't like it, and accepted that it wasn't the only way to look at it. If more people were like that, I wouldn't have an issue with it. It's just that a certain segment of the reaction has been extremely immature. And yes, I agree a fraction of both sides have been guilty of it, I probably have been too. Mainly, in my case, I just hate the thought of Ninja Theory getting brought down because of this.

Regardless, the main problem is that people have a hard time separating taste and actual quality of the product. For example: The Walking Dead. I loved that game. It had a very well written story. However, it was also an extremely poor game from a technical standpoint, complete with a plethora of visual/audio hiccups, crippling bugs that prevented some from even finishing it, and the gameplay was basic and stiff as a board. Does that mean I have to hate it? No. I still really enjoyed my time with it.

On that same token, you can completely dislike a game that's competently made. I don't like Bioshock in any way, shape, or form. Does that mean it's a steaming pile? No, it just means I don't like it because it doesn't appeal to me.

The issue is that once a person doesn't like the game on the Internet, it's because it's a horrible game, and if you think different, then you're wrong. And it works the other way around too. People just need to take the hyperbole down a notch.

I saw that video on gametrailers and to my knowledge it is the only piece of content that has a person that played through the whole series and can speak about the differences and the issues with the reboot. I was going to make a thread about that video, but I considered how it wouldn't make a difference one way or another and decided against that. People have already convinced themselves that anyone who speaks about the issues with DmC is secretly upset about the hair. Aside from that video I have not seen anyone on any other website judge DmC to the metric that fans of the series are using. Most outlets are looking at that game completely devoid of its roots and so they don't see anything wrong with it.

This "accessibility" that has started to creep into titles is what has me pretty worried about Dark Souls 2. If the worse actually happens with Dark Souls 2 you can expect everyone to shit on Souls fans as entitled whiners just like they did with Mass Effect 3 and DmC.

#134 Posted by yoshisaur (2639 posts) -

Who the hell cares? Can't people just let others enjoy a Goddamned game and shut up? Seriously, if there is a stick up your ass, e-mail/mail the developers and stop making it look like people who enjoy the game are stupid. I know I had my fun with it, and didn't enjoy DmC4. According to the amount of blasphemy people seem to tack-on to that statement, I think the world just imploded.

#135 Edited by MurderBunny (50 posts) -

@ck1nd said:

Who the hell cares? Can't people just let others enjoy a Goddamned game and shut up? Seriously, if there is a stick up your ass, e-mail/mail the developers and stop making it look like people who enjoy the game are stupid. I know I had my fun with it, and didn't enjoy DmC4. According to the amount of blasphemy people seem to tack-on to that statement, I think the world just imploded.

You have not read a single dam thing that was said in this thread did you?

#136 Posted by JasonR86 (9605 posts) -

I'm not too surprised. This is a reboot trying to build a new audience. I doubt they were expecting to have huge numbers. I imagine they are hoping that this game can lay a foundation for sequels with a new audience that will sell better with each new game in the series.

#137 Posted by eclipsesis (1242 posts) -

@Brighty said:

@Kankohii said:

It's funny how people have turned around on DMC4 when DmC came out. These are probably the same people who shat on it when it came out (and never played it).

DMC4 had the best combat in the series, and while the game's story and structure were mediocre it wasn't a bad game by any stretch. Many people enjoyed it despite some obvious flaws, and it reviewed pretty favorably as well. Nero as a character was redundant and entirely unnecessary though, and the Devil Bringer could have easily been another one of Dante's styles.

No No No No NO NO NO NO NO NO.............NO No no no non nononoononononononononon. No it didn't have the best combat, who said this? where are they?

#138 Posted by Bourbon_Warrior (4523 posts) -

Not really surprised since DMC4 was such a let down.

#139 Posted by LiquidPrince (15842 posts) -

Who cares? It will sell what it sells, but the way you framed your information seems like you want everyone to know it's failing or something. Ninja Theory deserves better then this.

#140 Edited by handlas (2659 posts) -

@LiquidPrince said:

Who cares? It will sell what it sells, but the way you framed your information seems like you want everyone to know it's failing or something. Ninja Theory deserves better then this.

NO. NEVER. Ninja Theory brought this wrath upon themselves by taking on this project. BURN THEEEEM! They will feel the scorch of a thousand burning tridents piercing their unworthy flesh.

#141 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

I am honestly pretty sure that Capcom took into account the mass of angry sperglords who shall not buy a game with black haired Dante

and we should probably wait until the PC version comes out before we call it a failure anyway?

#142 Posted by handlas (2659 posts) -

@Animasta said:

I am honestly pretty sure that Capcom took into account the mass of angry sperglords who shall not buy a game with black haired Dante

and we should probably wait until the PC version comes out before we call it a failure anyway?

But is his hair black at the end of the game? Duuun dun dun.

#143 Edited by Brighty (251 posts) -

@eclipsesis said:

@Brighty said:

@Kankohii said:

It's funny how people have turned around on DMC4 when DmC came out. These are probably the same people who shat on it when it came out (and never played it).

DMC4 had the best combat in the series, and while the game's story and structure were mediocre it wasn't a bad game by any stretch. Many people enjoyed it despite some obvious flaws, and it reviewed pretty favorably as well. Nero as a character was redundant and entirely unnecessary though, and the Devil Bringer could have easily been another one of Dante's styles.

No No No No NO NO NO NO NO NO.............NO No no no non nononoononononononononon. No it didn't have the best combat, who said this? where are they?

It absolutely did have the best combat in the series, it's almost non-debatable. Which other game do you think had the best combat in the series? DMC3?

@Animasta said:

@handlas said:

@Animasta said:

I am honestly pretty sure that Capcom took into account the mass of angry sperglords who shall not buy a game with black haired Dante

and we should probably wait until the PC version comes out before we call it a failure anyway?

But is his hair black at the end of the game? Duuun dun dun.

the honest fact that his hair color may or may not be different at the end of the game and this a point of importance is so fucked

really should've given him pink hair

The fan's major complaints were never about the hair, for the thousandth time.

@handlas said:

@LiquidPrince said:

Who cares? It will sell what it sells, but the way you framed your information seems like you want everyone to know it's failing or something. Ninja Theory deserves better then this.

NO. NEVER. Ninja Theory brought this wrath upon themselves by taking on this project. BURN THEEEEM! They will feel the scorch of a thousand burning tridents piercing their unworthy flesh.

You guys are playing EXACTLY into the stereotype we're trying to work against that is sabotaging this game. Try reading the thread.

#144 Posted by Shady (503 posts) -

@JasonR86 said:

I'm not too surprised. This is a reboot trying to build a new audience. I doubt they were expecting to have huge numbers. I imagine they are hoping that this game can lay a foundation for sequels with a new audience that will sell better with each new game in the series.

From Capcom's sales forecast, it doesn't look that way. Even if they didn't lay out their projections, this is Capcom we are talking about. They have killed more things for lesser reasons. Unless they are willing to weather the storm, I can't see them doubling down on a drop in sales performance for an established franchise. That is if this does end up selling significantly less than DMC4.

#145 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

@handlas said:

@Animasta said:

I am honestly pretty sure that Capcom took into account the mass of angry sperglords who shall not buy a game with black haired Dante

and we should probably wait until the PC version comes out before we call it a failure anyway?

But is his hair black at the end of the game? Duuun dun dun.

the honest fact that his hair color may or may not be different at the end of the game and this a point of importance is so fucked

really should've given him pink hair

#146 Posted by handlas (2659 posts) -

@Brighty said:

@eclipsesis said:

@Brighty said:

@Kankohii said:

It's funny how people have turned around on DMC4 when DmC came out. These are probably the same people who shat on it when it came out (and never played it).

DMC4 had the best combat in the series, and while the game's story and structure were mediocre it wasn't a bad game by any stretch. Many people enjoyed it despite some obvious flaws, and it reviewed pretty favorably as well. Nero as a character was redundant and entirely unnecessary though, and the Devil Bringer could have easily been another one of Dante's styles.

No No No No NO NO NO NO NO NO.............NO No no no non nononoononononononononon. No it didn't have the best combat, who said this? where are they?

It absolutely did have the best combat in the series, it's almost non-debatable. Which other game do you think had the best combat in the series? DMC3?

@Animasta said:

@handlas said:

@Animasta said:

I am honestly pretty sure that Capcom took into account the mass of angry sperglords who shall not buy a game with black haired Dante

and we should probably wait until the PC version comes out before we call it a failure anyway?

But is his hair black at the end of the game? Duuun dun dun.

the honest fact that his hair color may or may not be different at the end of the game and this a point of importance is so fucked

really should've given him pink hair

The fan's major complaints were never about the hair, for the thousandth time.

@handlas said:

@LiquidPrince said:

Who cares? It will sell what it sells, but the way you framed your information seems like you want everyone to know it's failing or something. Ninja Theory deserves better then this.

NO. NEVER. Ninja Theory brought this wrath upon themselves by taking on this project. BURN THEEEEM! They will feel the scorch of a thousand burning tridents piercing their unworthy flesh.

You guys are playing EXACTLY into the stereotype we're trying to work against that is sabotaging this game. Try reading the thread.

I bought the game. The game is great. Ninja Theory did a great job. I rewarded them with my money. I'm not part of the problem good sir! How dare you.

#147 Edited by Brighty (251 posts) -

@handlas said:

@Brighty said:

@handlas said:

@LiquidPrince said:

Who cares? It will sell what it sells, but the way you framed your information seems like you want everyone to know it's failing or something. Ninja Theory deserves better then this.

NO. NEVER. Ninja Theory brought this wrath upon themselves by taking on this project. BURN THEEEEM! They will feel the scorch of a thousand burning tridents piercing their unworthy flesh.

You guys are playing EXACTLY into the stereotype we're trying to work against that is sabotaging this game. Try reading the thread.

I bought the game. The game is great. Ninja Theory did a great job. I rewarded them with my money. I'm not part of the problem good sir! How dare you.

Sigh.

#148 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

@Brighty: the major complaints were mostly about as relevant as the hair, I'm sorry (and the hair is representative OF the complaints, if not the only complaint)

#149 Posted by Brighty (251 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@Brighty: the major complaints were mostly about as relevant as the hair, I'm sorry (and the hair is representative OF the complaints, if not the only complaint)

Interesting. What do you think were the other major complaints out of curiosity?

#150 Posted by aurahack (2264 posts) -

Okay. I guess I'll just feel bad that a whole bunch of people are denying themselves a really, really awesome action game then.

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