NPD rankings are in, DmC bombs in the US and world-wide

#101 Posted by SpasticHeathen (33 posts) -

@nettacki said:

I'd like to note that after its initial strong performance in the top 10 of Steam sellers, it eventually languished into the bottom of the top 50 as of today. And even when it was at the top of the list, I don't think it sold like Skyrim or whatever.

It really didn't. In fact, DmC was dethroned on its second day of release by pre-orders for Skyrim's Dragonbourne DLC on Steam that it never recovered from.

#103 Posted by Humanity (7949 posts) -

The Brighty report keeps on rolling. A formal apology was stated: sorry everyone, the numbers on the game that Brighty really likes which he keeps reminding you is selling like shit and is a complete commercial flop were a little off - it is ACTUALLY selling even worse than previously stated. Just wanted to keep everyone abreast of how terribly this game is doing. See you next week where we will discuss in detail how DmC continues to sell below expectations.

#104 Posted by WolfHazard (453 posts) -

A will throw money at Capcom for a DMC game any day forever despite what the general public says. I'm not shocked it didn't sell gangbusters but I doubt this will have any effect on a sequel/trilogy, in fact I'm willing to bet Capcom figured this would do poorly out of the gate and would hope word of mouth and critical acclaim would carry them over the next year or so until we start to hear about DmC2, at which point enough people should open their eyes by then to be excited for it, even if they got this off a $20 steam sale or out of the bargin bin at Walmart.

#105 Posted by Nettacki (1313 posts) -

@humanity said:

The Brighty report keeps on rolling. A formal apology was stated: sorry everyone, the numbers on the game that Brighty really likes which he keeps reminding you is selling like shit and is a complete commercial flop were a little off - it is ACTUALLY selling even worse than previously stated. Just wanted to keep everyone abreast of how terribly this game is doing. See you next week where we will discuss in detail how DmC continues to sell below expectations.

What? It's true. Capcom did kinda fuck up with the whole sales expectations thing.

I'm curious. Are you lying to yourself thinking that this game was a success in all fronts? Or do you just don't care about sales?

#106 Posted by probablytuna (3443 posts) -

Well I did my part and purchased a copy. It's a pretty good game, shame it didn't sell that well.

#107 Edited by Mirado (948 posts) -

@nettacki said:

@humanity said:

The Brighty report keeps on rolling. A formal apology was stated: sorry everyone, the numbers on the game that Brighty really likes which he keeps reminding you is selling like shit and is a complete commercial flop were a little off - it is ACTUALLY selling even worse than previously stated. Just wanted to keep everyone abreast of how terribly this game is doing. See you next week where we will discuss in detail how DmC continues to sell below expectations.

What? It's true. Capcom did kinda fuck up with the whole sales expectations thing.

I'm curious. Are you lying to yourself thinking that this game was a success in all fronts? Or do you just don't care about sales?

He's commenting on the fact that Brighty's only posts about a game that he professes to enjoy involve pointing out its sales figures and their negative connotations. Instead of a normal reaction for a fan (playing up the merits of the game, pointing out positives that people may have missed, discussing his own enjoyment despite the cool reception, etc), he seems to take it as a solemn duty to notify others of its failure. He goes far enough to report a revision of those figures from a notoriously inaccurate website because they are lower than originally projected (along with a mea culpa for using it), despite the fact that it makes no sense to do so; retracting an inaccurate number and replacing it with an inaccurate number makes no difference. I assume he just wants to highlight any negative he can.

Hell, he posts the "revised" table as if that gives it some credibility.

@Humanity makes no reference to Capcom's forecast revisions, his personal feelings about the game's success, or his personal weighting of them. To put it simply; I think you missed his point.

#108 Edited by Nettacki (1313 posts) -

@mirado said:

@nettacki said:

@humanity said:

The Brighty report keeps on rolling. A formal apology was stated: sorry everyone, the numbers on the game that Brighty really likes which he keeps reminding you is selling like shit and is a complete commercial flop were a little off - it is ACTUALLY selling even worse than previously stated. Just wanted to keep everyone abreast of how terribly this game is doing. See you next week where we will discuss in detail how DmC continues to sell below expectations.

What? It's true. Capcom did kinda fuck up with the whole sales expectations thing.

I'm curious. Are you lying to yourself thinking that this game was a success in all fronts? Or do you just don't care about sales?

He's commenting on the fact that Brighty's only posts about a game that he professes to enjoy involve pointing out its sales figures and their negative connotations. Instead of a normal reaction for a fan (playing up the merits of the game, pointing out positives that people may have missed, discussing his own enjoyment despite the cool reception, etc), he seems to take it as a solemn duty to notify others of its failure. He goes far enough to report a revision of those figures from a notoriously inaccurate website because they are lower than originally projected (along with a mea culpa for using it), despite the fact that it makes no sense to do so; retracting an inaccurate number and replacing it with an inaccurate number makes no difference. I assume he just wants to highlight any negative he can.

Hell, he posts the "revised" table as if that gives it some credibility.

@Humanity makes no reference to Capcom's forecast revisions, his personal feelings about the game's success, or his personal weighting of them. To put it simply; I think you missed his point.

I'll admit, you have a point. But even if that website is "notoriously inaccurate" it's not like it's way off from the actual total. At best, these sales forecasts tend to be off by (hypothetically) +/- 5-10%.

Also, there's a certain subsection of fans that want this game to succeed. Looking at sales figures and expressing one's disappointment in them, especially if one takes into account what Capcom wanted out of it and how previous games in the series performed in comparison, is something that I think is understandable even for certain fans to do.

At the same time, in the end, perhaps it's wise to wait a few more months before we consider this game a failure and details on the actual production budget of the game come out.

#109 Posted by Eujin (1293 posts) -

Welp, that's unfortunate. Despite all the (mostly but not all) irrational hate it's been getting, the game is quite good from what I've played of it.

I did like DMC4 quite a bit and would still like to have seen the transition that made Dante all grown up in DMC2 (since that was still hundreds of years after DMC4, apparently), we were never getting a DMC5, it's not like Capcom cancelled DMC5 plans because Ninja Theory came up to them, or something. They were rebooting DMC regardless and chose Ninja Theory to do it..

The fact that the game is potentially great should be applauded, not despised. Because great games are a good thing.

If the sales #s keep being under expectations (Which I don't know if that is the case or not), we just won't see any DMC(classic or reboot) game for probably another generation.

#110 Edited by Mirado (948 posts) -

@nettacki said:

I'll admit, you have a point. But even if that website is "notoriously inaccurate" it's not like it's way off from the actual total. At best, these sales forecasts tend to be off by (hypothetically) +/- 5-10%.

Also, there's a certain subsection of fans that want this game to succeed. Looking at sales figures and expressing one's disappointment in them, especially if one takes into account what Capcom wanted out of it and how previous games in the series performed in comparison, is something that I think is understandable even for certain fans to do.

At the same time, in the end, perhaps it's wise to wait a few more months before we consider this game a failure and details on the actual production budget of the game come out.

There's no way of knowing. Even if the numbers wind up being spot on, it's all guess work and speculation unless Capcom themselves release the numbers since no one else does. They could be off by 25% or more; we've got no clue unless we hear it straight from Capcom. VGChartz is a useless tool and the very fact that they would "revise" numbers based off of hearsay only further damages their already infinitesimal credibility. Just because they arrive at a vaguely similar result to reality has no bearing on the validity of the method used to get there.

As for the rest of it, I'll be brief since I have no horse in this race (I'm not a DMC fan, haven't played any of the games including this one and have no desire to do so). Without digging too deep into his posting history, the only time these topics seem to pop up is when it's a negative cast on a sales report. I've seen them about it selling a fraction of what DMC4 did, about Capcom lowering their numbers, and this topic. There are probably others. I don't care whether this franchise lives or dies, but it seems he does, and only in the negative sense.

#111 Posted by Nettacki (1313 posts) -

@mirado said:
I don't care whether this franchise lives or dies, but it seems he does, and only in the negative sense.

Look earlier and you'll see that he was kinda looking forward to the game as time went on, and he's also a big fan of the older DMC games so I don't think he wants the franchise to die. He's also one of the fans that were (directly or indirectly) insulted by Capcom and Ninja Theory during some of their interviews a couple of years back. The sort of fans who, in Tameem's words "secretly liked the game."

#112 Posted by Quarters (1547 posts) -

If it really is selling poorly, that's an absolute, undeserved shame. They made a great game, and more people should try it. This mainly depresses me for two reasons:

1. If this game really does bomb and they won't do a sequel, that means that DMC as a series is probably dead. They won't just retreat back to the old series.

2. I wish Ninja Theory could catch a break. Their total bad luck they have with their games and sales is ridiculous. Heavenly Sword was pretty good, Enslaved had a lot of great attributes, and DmC is awesome all-around. They're a creative team that try to do cool things within the character action genre. Seeing them get dismissed by so many people is sad.

#113 Posted by Nettacki (1313 posts) -

@quarters said:

If it really is selling poorly, that's an absolute, undeserved shame. They made a great game, and more people should try it. This mainly depresses me for two reasons:

1. If this game really does bomb and they won't do a sequel, that means that DMC as a series is probably dead. They won't just retreat back to the old series.

2. I wish Ninja Theory could catch a break. Their total bad luck they have with their games and sales is ridiculous. Heavenly Sword was pretty good, Enslaved had a lot of great attributes, and DmC is awesome all-around. They're a creative team that try to do cool things within the character action genre. Seeing them get dismissed by so many people is sad.

If Ninja Theory/Capcom weren't such hardasses to all the old DMC fans to the point of spreading that attitude to the gaming press, then maybe they wouldn't be getting as much hate by as many people. Actively driving away potential customers with such comments as "I don't care what they think" or "old Dante would be laughed out of a bar" isn't exactly the best way to market your game to as many people as possible, especially since, as it turns out, the potential audience of non-DMC fans that want to get into the series for the first time isn't so large after all without the hardcore fanbase to support it. Sure, there are some people here and there that love both the old and new DMCs, but they don't seem numerous enough to make a difference.

#114 Posted by TangoUp (309 posts) -

I loved playing DMC4 because of Dante. Nero was good, but as a newcomer to the series, I just enjoyed playing as Dante. Effortless bad-assery aside, Dante brought humor to the game and his character represented what the franchise was about - laughing in the face of hordes of enemies. So when the new Dante was introduced with DmC, I was underwhelmed. And the attitude of the developers and the media to 'butt-hurt' fans was moronic.

Are you surprised that sales are low then? If the franchise's fans feel like they have been insulted why would you expect them to buy the game? If your strategy was to attract new/casual fans, the game should have sold well because the install base for the PS3/Xbox is huge compared to when DMC4 came out. Any publicity is NOT good publicity. It's the same with criticism regarding Mass Effect 3's endings. Instead of addressing the issue, you do not just insult entire clumps of fans just because some of the criticism was over the top or hateful.

But anyway, I think there is still a market for hack and slash games. But, characters are just as important to games now. Who knows, maybe in the next generation, some developer will do for hack and slash what Naughty Dog did for adventure games - create endearing characters with a proper story built around them.

#115 Edited by Quarters (1547 posts) -

@nettacki said:

@quarters said:

If it really is selling poorly, that's an absolute, undeserved shame. They made a great game, and more people should try it. This mainly depresses me for two reasons:

1. If this game really does bomb and they won't do a sequel, that means that DMC as a series is probably dead. They won't just retreat back to the old series.

2. I wish Ninja Theory could catch a break. Their total bad luck they have with their games and sales is ridiculous. Heavenly Sword was pretty good, Enslaved had a lot of great attributes, and DmC is awesome all-around. They're a creative team that try to do cool things within the character action genre. Seeing them get dismissed by so many people is sad.

If Ninja Theory/Capcom weren't such hardasses to all the old DMC fans to the point of spreading that attitude to the gaming press, then maybe they wouldn't be getting as much hate by as many people. Actively driving away potential customers with such comments as "I don't care what they think" or "old Dante would be laughed out of a bar" isn't exactly the best way to market your game to as many people as possible, especially since, as it turns out, the potential audience of non-DMC fans that want to get into the series for the first time isn't so large after all without the hardcore fanbase to support it. Sure, there are some people here and there that love both the old and new DMCs, but they don't seem numerous enough to make a difference.

Being a big fan of the old games, I didn't get that impression at all from what they said pre-release. And even if it were, that isn't half as bad as the way the fanbase has been acting towards them. I take issue with the fact that people are hoping this drags the whole company down. When certain segments of fandom are hoping that hard working people lose their jobs, just because they "offended" their sensibilities, is completely outrageous. And honestly, that might just happen. Ninja Theory has had three sketchy sellers in a row. It's not easy for a company to survive that. Those two examples that you posted are interesting, because the first one isn't halfway close to how harsh the fans have been, and the second is a totally factual statement. Think about it in real terms, if old Dante was in an actual bar, people would think he's a gay cowboy(not in the normal, realistic sense, in the far, far, supernova, parody end of the spectrum) or something. It's called a joke. Even if Ninja Theory was a little snarky, the other side's responses were a thousand times worse. But unfortunately, since they are the customers, people are willing to write it off as okay. But how dare a company be at all offended when we insult everything about them. It's completely hypocritical, and it ticks me off.

What's even more ridiculous is that Capcom is the one that told Ninja Theory to change the design. NT have said before that their original version of the character was closer to old Dante, and Capcom said it wasn't a radical enough change. But of course, most people don't pay attention to that, they just want to hurl as much fire as they can at Ninja Theory, because they ruined their series.

I mean, it's a different story if the game just doesn't appeal to you for various reasons. I have no problem with the legitimate issues that some people have with the game. It's just the blind hatred that really drives me up the wall.

Sorry that I got worked up, not trying to yell at you. Just tired of seeing this sentiment(not necessarily what you were saying, it's just a related topic) that gamers deserve whatever they want, and the developers should just bend over backwards to meet their every demand, then take endless criticism on the chin and just smile and nod like robots. They put passion into a game(not always the case, but you can clearly tell here, as it feels carefully made), so they have good reason to feel aggravated when people call for their jobs, or even in some very extreme circumstances, their heads.

#116 Posted by PerryVandell (2100 posts) -

I don't doubt the possibility of the new DMC having poor sales. I do, however, doubt the validity of VG Chartz's data in general. I'm curious to see how well the game sold on Steam, though we likely aren't going to hear anything. I'm amazed NPD doesn't count online sales when they count for such a huge portion of the market. There could be some factors I'm simply not considering, but it'd be nice if they were made a little more obvious.

#117 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

Why are people upset about low sales for DmC?

Capcom didn't care about the fans, fans didn't buy it, so what's the problem? Capcom had years to make sure this wouldn't happen but they didn't care. So why should fans care?

It's a shit game, and the fans decided it so.

#118 Posted by Humanity (7949 posts) -

Why are people upset about low sales for DmC?

Capcom didn't care about the fans, fans didn't buy it, so what's the problem? Capcom had years to make sure this wouldn't happen but they didn't care. So why should fans care?

It's a shit game, and the fans decided it so.

The fans decided it's a shit game because it wasn't the game they wanted, not because it's actually a "shit game." Any rational person who is a fan of this genre and has played the entire game can attest to the fact that the new DmC is technically an all around "good" game in the character action (or whatever) genre. It might not be the perfect Devil May Cry game but it's still pretty damn good and there are tons of videos out there showing combo cancelling and advanced techniques that most of the hardcore fanbase just didn't bother to discover because of their pure, unabashed contempt for this title. I've had this conversation one time too many so I wont bother getting into specifics but just make sure you voice your opinions correctly. The hardcore fans think its a "shit" Devil May Cry game - but it's far from being a shit game on it's own merit. People who think it's a shit game period honestly haven't played some shit games, and it's not like the "character action" genre is rife with titles to choose from either.

Just as bonus here is footage of someone playing the new DmC using jump cancels and other fun tricks - what I'd consider high level gameplay:

#119 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

@humanity: It doesn't matter what reviewers say. Sales say the game wasn't what the people wanted.

The signs were in front of capcom for 3 years.

#120 Posted by Humanity (7949 posts) -

@kaosangel: I don't really care what the fans wanted I was simply making sure you understand that it's a good game, as opposed to how you phrased it a "shit game" because some fans "think so"

#121 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

@humanity: It was a shit game in the eyes of fans. Guess Capcom needed them, huh?

#122 Posted by Cameron (594 posts) -

It really sucks that fans of the old games don't like this one. It is the first DMC game I've liked since the first one. Two wasn't great, three was stupid hard, and I never got around to playing four. This game just had a great balance between depth and fun. If you want to get really into the combat system there is plenty of amazing stuff you can do, but if you just want to mash buttons and have fun, then you still get to see some pretty cool stuff. It may not be exactly like the old games, but that's a good thing in my eyes.

#123 Edited by Nekroskop (2786 posts) -

"Not in a million sales."

-Old DmC fans

#124 Edited by Nettacki (1313 posts) -
@quarters said:

@nettacki said:

@quarters said:

If it really is selling poorly, that's an absolute, undeserved shame. They made a great game, and more people should try it. This mainly depresses me for two reasons:

1. If this game really does bomb and they won't do a sequel, that means that DMC as a series is probably dead. They won't just retreat back to the old series.

2. I wish Ninja Theory could catch a break. Their total bad luck they have with their games and sales is ridiculous. Heavenly Sword was pretty good, Enslaved had a lot of great attributes, and DmC is awesome all-around. They're a creative team that try to do cool things within the character action genre. Seeing them get dismissed by so many people is sad.

If Ninja Theory/Capcom weren't such hardasses to all the old DMC fans to the point of spreading that attitude to the gaming press, then maybe they wouldn't be getting as much hate by as many people. Actively driving away potential customers with such comments as "I don't care what they think" or "old Dante would be laughed out of a bar" isn't exactly the best way to market your game to as many people as possible, especially since, as it turns out, the potential audience of non-DMC fans that want to get into the series for the first time isn't so large after all without the hardcore fanbase to support it. Sure, there are some people here and there that love both the old and new DMCs, but they don't seem numerous enough to make a difference.


Sorry that I got worked up, not trying to yell at you. Just tired of seeing this sentiment(not necessarily what you were saying, it's just a related topic) that gamers deserve whatever they want, and the developers should just bend over backwards to meet their every demand, then take endless criticism on the chin and just smile and nod like robots. They put passion into a game(not always the case, but you can clearly tell here, as it feels carefully made), so they have good reason to feel aggravated when people call for their jobs, or even in some very extreme circumstances, their heads.

The devs still started it. The call for them to lose their jobs and their heads never came up until NT/Capcom (mostly NT) made various derogatory comments towards the DMC fandom like the ones I mentioned (and worse). It's unfortunate that some of the fans resorted to death threats, but they're the few fans who make the rest of the skeptical fanbase look bad to the rabid DmC supporters and lead to journalists calling all of them "butthurt" and "entitled" as if that makes them feel better about the game.

When you're a developer making a reboot to a beloved series, it is IMPORTANT that you respect the preferences and expectations of the customer first before going apeshit with the design process of the new one and pretend you're better than everyone else just because you're making a game. I mean, the guys who made Deus Ex Human Revolution were pretty respectful to the fans, even in the face of criticism and worries that it won't live up to the original. They made an effort to bridge the gap between them and the fans, and I respect them for that. I DON'T have respect for those who insult the fans in any way (even in a supposedly snarky and joking fashion, especially if it isn't funny) and seemingly trying to alienate the old fans and deliberately hollow out the connection with the fans for the sake of getting a new one that may or may not be as large and as willing to accept their work as they expected them to be.

EDIT: I'm not saying that the devs should "take endless criticism on the chin and just smile and nod like robots." I want them to take any and all constructive criticism from the people who love the series enough to know what's right for them and pick and choose the ones that are most relevant to their intentions. Clearly, they didn't take any of the constructive criticism into account. Admittedly, that could be an admirable thing, what with sticking to your guns and making the game you want to make, other people's opinions be damned.

#125 Posted by Nettacki (1313 posts) -

@cameron said:

It really sucks that fans of the old games don't like this one. It is the first DMC game I've liked since the first one. Two wasn't great, three was stupid hard, and I never got around to playing four. This game just had a great balance between depth and fun. If you want to get really into the combat system there is plenty of amazing stuff you can do, but if you just want to mash buttons and have fun, then you still get to see some pretty cool stuff. It may not be exactly like the old games, but that's a good thing in my eyes.

Which version of 3 did you play? The original or the Special Edition? Because the Special Edition has a far more balanced difficulty curve on Normal than the original. When people declare 3 to be the best in the series, they're probably referring to the Special Edition.

#126 Posted by golguin (3654 posts) -

@humanity said:

@kaosangel said:

Why are people upset about low sales for DmC?

Capcom didn't care about the fans, fans didn't buy it, so what's the problem? Capcom had years to make sure this wouldn't happen but they didn't care. So why should fans care?

It's a shit game, and the fans decided it so.

The fans decided it's a shit game because it wasn't the game they wanted, not because it's actually a "shit game." Any rational person who is a fan of this genre and has played the entire game can attest to the fact that the new DmC is technically an all around "good" game in the character action (or whatever) genre. It might not be the perfect Devil May Cry game but it's still pretty damn good and there are tons of videos out there showing combo cancelling and advanced techniques that most of the hardcore fanbase just didn't bother to discover because of their pure, unabashed contempt for this title. I've had this conversation one time too many so I wont bother getting into specifics but just make sure you voice your opinions correctly. The hardcore fans think its a "shit" Devil May Cry game - but it's far from being a shit game on it's own merit. People who think it's a shit game period honestly haven't played some shit games, and it's not like the "character action" genre is rife with titles to choose from either.

Just as bonus here is footage of someone playing the new DmC using jump cancels and other fun tricks - what I'd consider high level gameplay:

I'd like to say that I played and beat all 4 of the DMC games (yes, even DMC with both Dante and Lucia) and Bayonetta. I have not played DmC yet nor do I plan to play it anytime soon because everything I saw and read about the game told me it wasn't the DMC game I wanted. I'm sure its a functional character action game, but that isn't what I wanted.

Revengeance on the other hand has me totally hyped despite not caring about the MGS universe. Platinum has earned my attention over the years (they make great games) and I saw enough of their crazy stamp on the game to know its my thing.

I've never played a Ninja Theory game, but I've heard that their games are mostly good even with their flaws. I might try DmC for free, but I'm not spending my money and time on something that doesn't appeal to me just to support some cause.

I don't understand why fans voting with their wallets is suddenly a bad thing.

#127 Posted by golguin (3654 posts) -

@nettacki said:

@cameron said:

It really sucks that fans of the old games don't like this one. It is the first DMC game I've liked since the first one. Two wasn't great, three was stupid hard, and I never got around to playing four. This game just had a great balance between depth and fun. If you want to get really into the combat system there is plenty of amazing stuff you can do, but if you just want to mash buttons and have fun, then you still get to see some pretty cool stuff. It may not be exactly like the old games, but that's a good thing in my eyes.

Which version of 3 did you play? The original or the Special Edition? Because the Special Edition has a far more balanced difficulty curve on Normal than the original. When people declare 3 to be the best in the series, they're probably referring to the Special Edition.

I think you have it wrong there. People played the original DMC3 and loved what they got there. The Special Edition had Virgil as a playable character so people played that version for Virgil. I own the original and rented the SE version.

#128 Posted by Cameron (594 posts) -

@nettacki said:

@cameron said:

It really sucks that fans of the old games don't like this one. It is the first DMC game I've liked since the first one. Two wasn't great, three was stupid hard, and I never got around to playing four. This game just had a great balance between depth and fun. If you want to get really into the combat system there is plenty of amazing stuff you can do, but if you just want to mash buttons and have fun, then you still get to see some pretty cool stuff. It may not be exactly like the old games, but that's a good thing in my eyes.

Which version of 3 did you play? The original or the Special Edition? Because the Special Edition has a far more balanced difficulty curve on Normal than the original. When people declare 3 to be the best in the series, they're probably referring to the Special Edition.

I played the original. I'm sure it was a good game for people who could get into it, but it was too hard for me.

#129 Edited by jakob187 (21503 posts) -

What can I say? Random Russian website selling PC keys for $20 was the best option. = /

Sorry, Capcom.

#130 Edited by rolanthas (238 posts) -
@golguin said:

I don't understand why fans voting with their wallets is suddenly a bad thing.

Hey golguin, voting with the wallet is fine. But this isn't really about that, let's not kid ourselves.This is just pure vitriol, an anatomy theatre at its most grotesque form, to see when and where the pus will seep so the audience can feel validated in their mass hysteria that the subject was tainted.

Which, really, isn't the case. The game is pretty good, most certainly top tier in this generations action games.

By all means, buy the game in sales, from key sites, that's your right as a gamer and an individual. Or just avoid it. You don't have to find excuses.

But don't kid yourself for a minute it is because of a proper, objective critical analysis of the game.

#131 Posted by Abendlaender (2597 posts) -

Well, guess the series is dead then.
Put it besides Onimusha and Dino Crisis. Far well Dante, I hardly knew ya

#132 Posted by Brodehouse (9370 posts) -

ALL OF THE TOYS out of the pram!

#133 Edited by Brighty (251 posts) -

Update: Metal Gear Rising's first week has apparently outsold DmC's entire first month, so thankfully yes, there is still a strong market for hack and slash games out there and any previous fears were unfounded. Kojima has already expressed interest in making a sequel and that he's very pleased with the game's sales so far.

#134 Edited by Nettacki (1313 posts) -

@rolanthas said:
@golguin said:

I don't understand why fans voting with their wallets is suddenly a bad thing.

Hey golguin, voting with the wallet is fine. But this isn't really about that, let's not kid ourselves.This is just pure vitriol, an anatomy theatre at its most grotesque form, to see when and where the pus will seep so the audience can feel validated in their mass hysteria that the subject was tainted.

Which, really, isn't the case. The game is pretty good, most certainly top tier in this generations action games.

By all means, buy the game in sales, from key sites, that's your right as a gamer and an individual. Or just avoid it. You don't have to find excuses.

But don't kid yourself for a minute it is because of a proper, objective critical analysis of the game.

It's not all vitriol. Shoving EVERY COMPLAINT EVER under just plain vitriol is insulting to the reasonable skeptics who provide the very valid criticisms of the flaws inherent in both the game and the developer/publisher in marketing it. YOU think it's good, and so do a lot of the reviewers, but that shouldn't mean everyone ever should agree with them, especially when there's an apparent disconnect in perception of these games in general.

#135 Edited by golguin (3654 posts) -

@nettacki said:

@rolanthas said:
@golguin said:

I don't understand why fans voting with their wallets is suddenly a bad thing.

Hey golguin, voting with the wallet is fine. But this isn't really about that, let's not kid ourselves.This is just pure vitriol, an anatomy theatre at its most grotesque form, to see when and where the pus will seep so the audience can feel validated in their mass hysteria that the subject was tainted.

Which, really, isn't the case. The game is pretty good, most certainly top tier in this generations action games.

By all means, buy the game in sales, from key sites, that's your right as a gamer and an individual. Or just avoid it. You don't have to find excuses.

But don't kid yourself for a minute it is because of a proper, objective critical analysis of the game.

It's not all vitriol. Shoving EVERY COMPLAINT EVER under just plain vitriol is insulting to the reasonable skeptics who provide the very valid criticisms of the flaws inherent in both the game and the developer/publisher in marketing it. YOU think it's good, and so do a lot of the reviewers, but that shouldn't mean everyone ever should agree with them, especially when there's an apparent disconnect in perception of these games in general.

Agreed that every complaint about the game isn't simply vitriol. Let me post my response from another topic to better explain myself and possibly zero in on why people simply didn't care to buy it.

"My feelings on DmC are very similar to my feelings on Dead Space 3. I've followed both games very closely and "hearing about it" essentially is shorthand for all the videos I've seen, reviews I've read, and general impressions from non media people.

Dead Space 3 did not go in the direction that I wanted and I have no interest in playing it despite playing all the other games for it (even the Wii light gun shooter and the weird puzzle game that stars the guy that dies right at the beginning of Dead Space 2) and really enjoying the fiction of the world.

I'm also a huge fan of tactical RPG games (FFT series and Disgaea series are top notch), but that doesn't mean I'll play every game in the genre. I tried XCOM because of all the praise it was getting and all the stories about its difficulty. I was EXTREMELY disappointed when my play style got me a super powered team of snipers that killed everything on site even with the basic starting weapons. I kept waiting for the game to push back and show me that I couldn't continue with my tactics. It never did.

Just because DmC is a game in a series I've enjoyed and a genre that really gets me pumped is no reason for me to take that financial dive and time sink. I've seen so much of the game, the weapons, the stages, the bosses, the story beats, etc that I feel I have a pretty good idea of what I should think about the game. I'm not the kind of person that goes along with everyone else."

#136 Posted by ArtelinaRose (1783 posts) -
@humanity said:

Just as bonus here is footage of someone playing the new DmC using jump cancels and other fun tricks - what I'd consider high level gameplay:

Not trying to be a jerk here, so I apologize in advance if I come off that way, but jump canceling is not exactly high level play for a DMC game. That's pretty much the first thing you should learn if you want to improve. Have you ever heard of Distorted Real Impact? It involves activating and deactivating your Devil Trigger at certain frame counts to multiply your damage output by three or four times. It's ridiculous. The timing involved requires a LOT of practice, and the depth of just this ONE TECHNIQUE is insane.

(I cannot seem to embed videos from my phone i am sorry ahhhh)

Distorted Real Impact

The new DmC does not seem to have anything near this level of complexity or any "advanced" techniques that separate the new players from the professionals. The combat system if why you come back to games like these and I feel DmC just does not hold up. Most hardcore DMC fans that I talk to were peeved about the way NT and Capcom treated the fans, yes, but after seeing footage of the new game or tooling around with the demo they have all come to the consensus that the combat is just not fun or complex enough to justify spending money on or sinking immense amounts of time into to learn the ins and outs.

#137 Posted by Kaiserreich (645 posts) -

@brighty: You're doing gods work, keep it up.

#138 Posted by Mrsignerman44 (1100 posts) -

@brighty: Update: Hey guys! Just in case you forgot, I still don't like this game!

-Brighty


#139 Edited by HerbieBug (3841 posts) -

The idea that series fans don't want innovation, and that this "innovative" new entry in the series selling badly is indicative of that, is wildly off the mark and a total misunderstanding of why long time fans of DMC do not care for this new one.

What Capcom did with this game is take a long standing series, strip it of all established narrative, and attempt to tell the same story again just in a different way. It's not simply a matter of fans disliking the new art style. This has more to do with tossing whole cloth foundation of the story and giving new replacements with different motivations and slightly different personalities for no specific artistic or game design related reason. It is entirely the wrong way to innovate. All that has been achieved here is pissing off old fans meanwhile providing no reason for new fans to come on board.

See, if the idea is to broaden the audience -and therefore increase sales- by changing the look and feel of a series, you should have some new innovation up front and center intended to interest a previously non-DMC buying consumer. They absolutely failed in this regard. Just who is the new character design supposed to appeal to? What is the target demographic? The way they went about it smacks of change for the sake of change, with no particular motivation behind it beyond that.

Capcom slapped a fresh coat of paint on the thing and totally ignored the reasons why the non-DMC buying audience does not buy DMC games. The combat is, apparently, somewhat simplified, but the pace and flow of the game is still the same. Non-DMC buying audience are mostly in that camp because the gameplay doesn't appeal, and still does not appeal in the new one.

So, they've put out a new game with an art style that disenfranchises the existing fans, a simplified combat system that achieves similar results; an art style that does not appeal to new fans any more than the old one did, and gameplay that is still third person action that still does not appeal to new fans who already rejected the series years ago.

#140 Edited by Humanity (7949 posts) -

@artemesia: Out of pure curiosity, as a fan and advanced player, what did you think the new DmC lacked in it's combat system. There is jump cancelling which is the crux of advanced techniques. Which other DMC3 abilities were not there that you missed?

#141 Edited by Danteveli (1082 posts) -

Capcom maybe next time. if the numbers are correct it looks like the game have not found enough fans outside Devil May Cry realm to make it a hit (saleswise).

#142 Posted by MariachiMacabre (6937 posts) -

@brighty:

Update: Hey guys! Just in case you forgot, I still don't like this game!

-Brighty

Just in case you missed my other 2 threads about it! You know, just a precaution!

#143 Edited by HerbieBug (3841 posts) -

@danteveli said:

Capcom maybe next time. if the numbers are correct it looks like the game have not found enough fans outside Devil May Cry realm to make it a hit (saleswise).

More specifically, it would seem they lost a percentage of the old fans and failed to appeal to much of any consumers previously uninterested in this sort of game. It's kind of the inverse of Bioware's success with Mass Effect 2. Where Mass Effect 2 retained fan interest and also increased appeal to wider audience; DmC lost a lot of fan interest and failed in its bid for broader appeal as well. Win/Win vs. Lose/Lose.

Or, if you prefer a Capcom comparison; look to Resident Evil's design overhaul for RE4 vs. DmC's.

#144 Edited by realph (251 posts) -

I think the problem with sales comes down to one of three things.

1. It's just that time in the generation

2. Old Devil May Cry fans aren't happy with the new look/tone and are voting with their wallets. If you ask me, they're idiots.

3. The dudebro crowd that used to pick up the Devil May Cry's are the same people that used to pick up tons of action titles back on the PS2 (Hitman, Onimusha, Tenchu). Basically, anything with guns, swords or badass-ery, they were more than happy to part ways with their cash. I know tons of "these sorts" of gamers, and the only game they seem bothered about nowadays is Call of Duty.

I have a friend who during the PS2 era had what I'd call a pretty broad taste in games. Played tons of titles, from Transformers to Shadow of the Colossus. Second Sight to Kingdom Hearts. He wont touch games like these with a barge pole now. He just sits and plays Call of Duty year in and year out. Unlimited online play has made some people content. It's pretty sickening really.

Personally, I loved the game! It was the first Devil May Cry I actually finished. I love Ninja Theory but even I scoffed when I heard they were rebooting it. As a huge Bayonetta fan, I didn't think in a million years DmC would be able to hold a candle to Bayonetta. In actual fact, it got pretty close. Brilliant game!

#145 Posted by TangoUp (309 posts) -

@realph said:

I think the problem with sales comes down to one of three things.

1. It's just that time in the generation

2. Old Devil May Cry fans aren't happy with the new look/tone and are voting with their wallets. If you ask me, they're idiots.

3. The dudebro crowd that used to pick up the Devil May Cry's are the same people that used to pick up tons of action titles back on the PS2 (Hitman, Onimusha, Tenchu). Basically, anything with guns, swords or badass-ery, they were more than happy to part ways with their cash. I know tons of "these sorts" of gamers, and the only game they seem bothered about nowadays is Call of Duty.

I have a friend who during the PS2 era had what I'd call a pretty broad taste in games. Played tons of titles, from Transformers to Shadow of the Colossus. Second Sight to Kingdom Hearts. He wont touch games like these with a barge pole now. He just sits and plays Call of Duty year in and year out. Unlimited online play has made some people content. It's pretty sickening really.

Personally, I loved the game! It was the first Devil May Cry I actually finished. I love Ninja Theory but even I scoffed when I heard they were rebooting it. As a huge Bayonetta fan, I didn't think in a million years DmC would be able to hold a candle to Bayonetta. In actual fact, it got pretty close. Brilliant game!

Haha, man I just had to come in here to say ... LOLWUT?

#146 Edited by Demoskinos (13853 posts) -

People still bitching about DmC? Christ. For the record though "the fans" thinking they had any impact is cute. What hurt this isn't a bunch of butthurt DMC fans who didn't want to buy the game its the fact that Capcom did a shit job at marketing it at all.

#147 Posted by Nettacki (1313 posts) -

People still bitching about DmC? Christ. For the record though "the fans" thinking they had any impact is cute. What hurt this isn't a bunch of butthurt DMC fans who didn't want to buy the game its the fact that Capcom did a shit job at marketing it at all.

It's both.

And jeez, you're using "butthurt" to describe all the DMC fans who didn't want to buy the game? Man, you're just as bad as the journalists.

#148 Edited by Brighty (251 posts) -

@demoskinos said:

For the record though "the fans" thinking they had any impact is cute. What hurt this isn't a bunch of butthurt DMC fans who didn't want to buy the game its the fact that Capcom did a shit job at marketing it at all.

dat denial

#149 Posted by Enigma777 (6047 posts) -

This is a perfect example of what happens when you royally piss off the majority of your fan base in the search of a wider audience. You can make the greatest game ever, but if you lose your hardcore foundation, the people who have bought all your previous games and told their frends to buy them too, it doesn't mean diddly squat.

#150 Posted by Demoskinos (13853 posts) -

@brighty said:

@demoskinos said:

People still bitching about DmC? Christ. For the record though "the fans" thinking they had any impact is cute. What hurt this isn't a bunch of butthurt DMC fans who didn't want to buy the game its the fact that Capcom did a shit job at marketing it at all.

dat denial

If you seriously think a small niche segment of gamers were the make or break for this thing then your delusional. Capcom did a shit job telling people this game existed.

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