There's depth to the combat and the old games, well two of them, are actually fun to play. Also the older games don't have animal semen in it.

Hunh that's interesting. That was the exact opposite impression I had given the extreme amount of public butthurt some of the series fans displayed, but given the sales trajectory your take makes much more sense.

Yeah, it might have been the Special Edition re-release with the tweaked difficulty since the original release was notoriously difficult.

This thread taught me that there are still people raging over DmC almost a year later.

lol

Also gotta voice this. The original game was notoriously difficult with reviewers getting stuck on the FIRST BOSS. I was personally stuck on Cerberus for days. I also played the Special Edition for the Vergil story and it was like everything was set to easy mode.

Well the new one is good so there's that for a difference.

New Dante is way better than old Dante too.

Where's Brighty when we need him.

I enjoyed DmC a lot though for some reason I found the combat to be lacking for some reason. I liked Bayonetta's combat a lot more if I were to make a comparison with other character action games from the previous gen. Even though DmC has a dodge mechanic, I liked the way it's implemented in Bayonetta and I also feel a lot more in control with the combat. In DMC, there were times when the camera stuck too close and I got blind sided a lot by certain enemies that have long-reaching/lunging attacks so instead of just dodging at the right time, I would just do it prematurely to re-position and I really hate having to do that a lot in the middle of a combo.

There's no time like Witch Time. Bayonetta is just a more solid game overall.

What? I see no ''raging'' going on, and despite all of the stupid ''oh boy'' comments, I'd say everybody in here has been rather well-mannered. If anything I'd say there's more ''raging'' in here being directed at the old games more so than DmC.

Yeah, having Witch Time be a skill-based mechanic instead of say, a "meter-based" mechanic like Devil Trigger is pretty brilliant. Being rewarded for dodging at the very last frame where you are about to get hit by delivering maximum punishment in slow-mo is fucking great.

It kinda does if you're a veteran DMC player/fan. You mostly expect sequels to be better and learn from past mistakes. The lack of a lock-on is the worst offender since the game sometimes disagrees with you on perceived target in a crowd. Different direction is one thing, not having the basics down is another. I still enjoy DmC though, for the flashy combat.

Most of the cutscenes didn't make me want to punch Dante in his douchey frat boy fucking face.

Visual design is nothing like it. The older games are somehow even more cheesy and ridiculous in a very japanese way. The combat feels distinctly different and places value on other things. So yeah, not very similar. I think they are totally good on their own terms though.

I honestly can't tell which Dante you're talking about, because this could kind of describe both of them.

@taku128: Kinda, yeah. I don't like either of them, but the reboot Dante I dislike a lot less, let's just say.

That's fair. In DMC 3 though you're very clearly supposed to not like Dante. Every attempt at being cool ends up backfiring on him and the other characters constantly make fun of or disrespect him. He matures by the end of the game and in DMC 4 becomes a lot more laid back and fun.

@taku128: I didn't much care for what people refer to as "Uncle Dante", but I can see where you're coming from. He was slightly less annoying by the last few chapters of DMC3, for me. Characters are not the reason to play DMC games anyway.

But Roguelike, Doom Clone and Cartoonish. Anime has a specific style that is prevalent in the vast majority of works that fall under that genre, and often times games and even movies will strive to emulate this style. For anyone to sit there and say that anime is not a descriptor is simply lying. We get it, you like anime, there's nothing wrong with that. You don't need to take offense, which, really that's what's going on here. Otherwise, you wouldn't be arguing about it, especially for this long. So yeah, people on a video game forum probably get what someone means when they say it's like anime. Nothing wrong with that.

melodrama is anime's bread and butter from everything I've seen (which is a lot more than I'd care to admit). It seems to be a cultural thing from all indications as "naturalistic" acting has been around in Japan since the early 20th century, but it's a niche. For some reason the culture has always been way more into dramatic exaggerations and, for lack of a better term, "theatricality" in their, well, theatre.

Basically a roundabout way of saying the old DMC games being "very anime" is a valid description.

@greggd: All right, so what sort of anime is calling something "anime" supposed to reference? One Piece? Perfect Blue? Love Hina? Ghost in the Shell?

Anime is a medium comprised of numerous genres with their own tones and styles. To reductively call something like DMC "anime" does nothing to actually describe what is anime-like about it.

Well, for the record I think Roguelike gets thrown around way to freely as well and it has nothing to do with me liking anime or not liking anime. I think its a stupid lazy word to use as a descriptor for people who have no clue what they are actually trying to describe. Your telling me well that thing is "like anime" well okay... what does that even mean? Can someone who uses that as a descriptor even define what "anime like" is? Because to even describe what "anime like" is you're going to come back to the same word that you should have just used in the first place "melodramatic".

It's more to do with movement and camera angles. Melodramatic can be applied to soap operas, but they do not feel the same as what I'm referring to. And yes, I get that it's a genre, with many different styles and such, but the overall tone of most anime, the pacing, the animation, the character movements, etc. can be easily identified by many people, anime fans or otherwise. It's hard to put into words, which is why I believe that saying something is like anime is a sufficient descriptor.

There was also some SERIOUS complexity to the more advanced techniques and maneuvers. I always tell people to look up stuff about Distorted Real Impacts to blow their minds on how fucking crazy you can get in 4 alone.

I guess that works for people who know very little about what anime can actually be, but there are some anime that can be dark as hell and not show any of the cartoony characteristics you're thinking of.

I disagree. Take three people. Feed one a steady stream of Ghost in the Shell (movies and TV shows), Jin-Roh, Wings of Honneamise, and the like. The second person is told to watch shows like Tenchi Muyo!, Love Hina, Ah! My Goddess and You're Under Arrest. The third is left to watch Revolutionary Girl Utena, Rose of Versailles, Brother, Dear Brother, Tokyo Babylon, and Sailor Moon.

Now you take those three people and you ask them to say what's so anime about these productions. Aside from the obvious connections (animated productions of Japanese origin), where do they cross over? Because I can assure you, you will get a lot of different answers, and most will be geared toward the specific genres of titles that they were fed.

Now, if you want to argue that Devil May Cry 1-4 are heavily influenced by Japanese media in general, and care to cite certain examples of how, then sure, you'll have an argument there. Given that the teams that made these games are Japanese, it would make sense that their creative output is influenced by the media that they themselves have consumed, whether that be anime, live action, manga, novels, or other games. But to suggest that it is merely "anime" is selling both the game and anime incredibly short.

I don't think this thread is about Devil May Cry anymore. SCREW YOU GUYS I'M PLAYING GOD HAND!

It was good.

@hailinel: I really don't feel like I'm selling either of them short by equating the two. And if I am, I'm certainly not trying to. I appreciate anime on an aesthetic level, and when they happen to tell a great story, even better. You suggesting that I feel the two are similar (which is meant as a huge compliment to both) giving them less credit than they deserve makes me feel kinda shitty about myself. Like because I have this opinion, then that somehow invalidates these works? How does that even make sense?

@imatreee: I'm not citing anything cartoony, so I don't know where you're getting that from.

As I noted before, it's a reductive statement. You might mean well by it, but there are a lot of people online that also use the trite, generalized "anime" descriptor as an epithet. (i.e.: "Devil May Cry? Get that anime shit out of here.") Heck, members of the GB staff have basically used "anime" as sarcastic shorthand in Quick Looks and the like. It's a term that, when used by itself as a descriptor, has no implicit meaning beyond its textbook definition; the person using it might want to imply something through its use, but that intent can be easily misread.

Man, that game is really anime.

And I love it.

Don't get me wrong, I actually like DmC as an action game in a vacuum, but its core gameplay mechanics are vastly inferior to DMC3 and 4. DmC is extremely easy compared to the latter, it has significantly less weapon/style variety (in fact, no style-switching at all), it's much slower and the jump-canceling etc is pretty sluggish compared to the previous games. You just can't pull any of the crazy shit that you used to be able to do and the skill ceiling is much much lower than the previous games. Any idiot can come along and JC in DmC, but doing so in the old games required some serious practice. Just have a look at the old Truestyle competitions for a reference point:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgSuIIesIE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnsyVt4IO5A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UurJkiwZEZI

@crysack: I'm still sort of surprised Patrick has never given a look into the crazy-dedicated fanbase for the older games frankly, given how elaborate and expansive they were able to completely make those games theirs, and Patrick's interest in franchises that gain incredibly passionate fanbases.

I understand where you're coming from, but DmC was a risk that, while successful in producing a quality experience, and one that attracted some players that might not have liked the characters and style of the earlier games, did little to attract those that enjoyed DMC1-4 for more than just their gameplay.

I know, I know, just mad about the hair, blah blah. But as much as some audiences prefer the new Dante to the old, there are also a lot that prefer the old to the new, and the displeasure of Dante being "replaced," if that's the right word, has been the subject of a lot of internet hyperbole. But once you cut through that hyperbole, the disappointment is more substantial than just internet rage and sour grapes. The new Dante is a different Persona from the original, and people that preferred the original's depiction to any degree over the new character are going to naturally feel a measure of disappointment and disinclined from playing the new game. Capcom gambled that the new Dante and his universe, backed by Ninja Theory, would attract more than the old. That obviously didn't pan out. Ninja Theory has moved on to other projects, and the prospects of there being a DmC2 seem highly unlikely. (Though it perhaps didn't help that Ninja Theory played into the internet rage with in-game jokes and developer comments that could be seen by some as baiting.)

I really, truly believe that DmC would have been better off had Capcom and Ninja Theory partnered on a DMC-inspired stylish action game that had otherwise had no connection to DMC. They could have made a new IP, but instead they chose to reboot one that already had plenty of existing fans and, tepid critical reception to DMC4 aside, was not seen as dead or dormant by a lot of people.

@yummylee: DMC4 Dante laughs at your insolence:

@fredchuckdave: That's always the one video everybody likes to bring up as to why they liked Dante in DMC4, and while there's... a certain charm about it, Reuben's performance is still really bad, and not in a 'so bad it's good' sorta way. That, and there's like every other scene in that game to stack up for why I think Dante in DMC4 fucking sucks.

@yummylee: Nero might be better playing but Dante is where all the charm in DMC 4 comes from; granted the story is shit in every DMC (except maybe the new one I take it, I'll report back when its on PS+) so there's not really some massive expectation of excellence there. Dante breaks the fourth wall a bunch in 4 which is always a plus, like when you first walk into the forest. Next to Credo he's also the best fight in the game, plus he says "Trickstuh" and "gunslinguh" in hilarious fashion. Compare with DMC 1 Dante:

What, specifically, about his performance is bad, though?

His delivery. He tries to play Dante as aloof and 'cool' but often feels like he's trying too hard, with this one particular line, ''things always gotta be complicated'', that comes across as so terribly faux-tough. And then there's that whole Lucifer weapon scene, which should quite frankly be shot into the sun and permanently erased from history.

Overall he sort of reminds me of like a Japanese equivalent of Duke Nukem, just without the misogyny and so forth. Of course, Reuben's not really even an actor anyway but more a stuntman, but even in DMC3 he wasn't that bad, whereas in DMC4 both Langon and the shitty writing combined to make Dante an absolutely unbearable character.

@yummylee said:

This is the first time I've heard someone properly articulate why I don't like Old Dante. He so is.

BUT SEMEN JOKES ARE SUPER FUNNY

RIGHT!?!

RIGHT?.....

No.

his hair is a different color

Combat in the originals was all about style. The scoring system demanded that you be fluid and diverse with your attacks and combos. Remake DmC focused more on air juggling and weapon swapping. The original games were extremely hard in terms of combat, but I think they nailed it quite well with the 4th one and then of course with Bayonetta, it was almost seamless pulling off combos. In my opinion, the combat in the remake was definitely something more I'd see in other hack and slash games, but not really something I would expect from a DmC game. Still fun though.

Character wise, Dante in the original games had more flair and that anime "too cool for you" sort of personality that the Japanese love. Remake Dante seemed more western inspired. He had like this white trash punk kid from the ghetto personality. People think that the original Dante acted very cheesy, but I would rather watch and play as him because it was just more fun. I hope that if they ever make a DmC 2 that they really tone down his obnoxious character and still have really unique level designs. Of course, I would much rather see a continuation of the original series, but I'm just glad that the name is still alive.

I think I'll probably check out the HD collection. What was so awful about DMC 2 that made it universally hated?

I only played the game once (rented it and beat the Dante and Lucia story) when it came out so I don't remember much about it, but I do remember that I felt the game was bad. People can analyze it now and tell you why the combat system and enemies weren't good, but you should just keep in mind that NO ONE DEFENDS DMC 2.

I don't even know if someone new to the series could pick it up as their first DMC game and explain why it's bad. If you don't have anything to compare it to you might not realize how bad it really is.

I'm going to get a lot of hate, but: I liked DmC (even if "DmC" is a dumb moniker). I also liked DMC1-4.They don't have to be mutually exclusive. (Edit: Also, yes this means I like DMC2. Which I think had the best iteration of Dante out of all 1-4. I'd have been very interested to see them continue on "More Adult Dante"'s story)

I personally believe DmC is actually a bit better of an overall game (the parts are all evenly great, making a much better whole) where as some of the old DMCs had a great combat system but weaker parts (Some had worse acting, or worse pathing, or worse level design, etc. So it was an unbalanced but enjoyable whole).

I think DmC got a lot of hate originally because it was a sudden change, and the developers kinda needed to rethink their approach to the (sometimes outlandish) criticisms they were getting. If any in this thread were one of those to hate it from the early nonsense, and haven't given it a shot, pick it up on sale sometime, you'll probably really enjoy it.

I enjoyed it. That's different.

doesn't matter. if you enjoy it, enjoy it.

DmC killed the series. Making a game for just casuals was a shit decision it had no depth and the worst combat system in a DMC game, it sold like shit and was the worst selling game of the series.

This is Devil May Cry.

@eujin: I'll agree that anyone who didn't give a shot, definitely should. I played through it from PS+ and it's a pretty good game. I still prefer the old ones though, mainly for combat and some mechanic stuff. Overall DmC has much better voice acting but it's pretty much wasted on one of the worst video game scripts I think I've ever seen. And Dante has a pun for basically everything making him just that much more unlikable.