What did people think was going to happen to this game?

#1 Posted by Anjon (124 posts) -

To me, the announcement, development cycle, and release of DmC followed a common path to its logical conclusion: a decent action game that markets itself to a new audience. That's all it could have ever been, and that was the single "good" path the franchise could have taken. The Devil May Cry franchise effectively died in 2008. Everyone involved with making that series good left to do other things, and Hideaki Kamiya, the father of the franchise, put all of his expertise towards creating Bayonetta, which he himself considers the ultimate evolution of Devil May Cry. Also, Bayonetta is preeetty good. Simply put, Devil May Cry as it was before Ninja Theory touched it simply can't coexist in the same world as Bayonetta because Bayonetta is just...better. It also has the minds behind Devil May Cry working to make it great. It's similar to Tomb Raider's existence after the Uncharted series happened. It just kind of floundered and then sparked an inevitable and much needed reboot. This is the only way the beloved Devil May Cry franchise can see be relevant -- by being utterly tasteless, easier, and less insane. This is what the franchise needed to stay alive.
 
So isn't this a good thing? I mean, for one the DMC franchise gets to stay alive. Also, we have Bayonetta! Bayonetta, dude! That game is super crazy! We don't even need DMC anymore! I thought we were on the same page here, but then the internet rage just wouldn't stop. What did people think was going to happen to the new game exactly? It's unreasonable to think a Ninja Theory game is just going to bomb flat out. At the very least, they know how to make games about dudes beating up stuff with weapons.

#2 Posted by Ataribomb (97 posts) -

I see where you're coming from for sure. And in a way, I agree. I bought the game today, and have been playing it since I got home. I guess the point that I've been struggling to properly articulate (and still am not sure I can) is that the game in every feels like a wolf in sheep's clothing. An imitator that learned the wrong lessons, and applied the wrong elements to the persona it's attempting to portray. Yeah I can talk all day about how the soft-lockon is imprecise, execution is far more forgiving, and the hit detection has sometimes gone apeshit on me, but that's boring. But there's also the issue of this being a Devil May Cry game that in no way feels like one. There's no heart, and absolutely no style behind it. The previous games (we do not acknowledge DMC2) were equal parts the player and the game having fun. It was cheesy, but it was endearing at the same time. This new game though is just a bunch of afflicted looking characters tossing around swears. There's still a level of silliness to the game for sure, but I can't reconcile it with the inconsistent seriousness that it throws at the player.

So basically I said all that to say this: I was hoping it would bomb (though I knew it wouldn't) because I didn't want to see the off-putting elements of the game be affirmed in the eyes of Capcom specifically. Because let's be real here, if this reboot is financially successful then that's what we're going to see more of, no matter what Capcom USA says.

Still going to power thought the game. Maybe something changes, and in fact I really hope something does. And of course, all this is just like, my opinion, man.

PS: You're totally right, I still have Bayo <3

#3 Posted by Jack268 (3387 posts) -

@Anjon said:

Bayonetta is just...better.

I disagree and I also think that the logical conclusion to draw from the fact that DMC4 is the best selling DMC game ever (DMC1 may have sold better?) is that people wanted more like that and not a reboot that strips the game of everything people liked with the franchise to begin with. Really, DmC is to DMC4 as DMC2 is to 1.

I also disagree with the statement that Ninja Theory knows how to make "games about dudes beating stuff up with weapons" - Considering they've never made a game where the framerate actually stuck to 30 or higher when you did this, I wouldn't call them very successful in that regard.

And overall I think the notion that one franchise should suffer through this shit just because another franchise is better in your opinion is pretty silly.

#4 Posted by Anjon (124 posts) -
@Jack268: May I ask why you disagree that Bayonetta is a superior game? Because I consider it to be almost objective. Almost. Sure, they aren't the exact same game and thus they have their "differences", but those differences don't really matter when compared to the whole. Bayonetta is crazier than Devil May Cry, perhaps too crazy. People might prefer DMC in that regard, but how much does that matter in the long run? I personally thought all of the "diversion" levels in the first Bayonetta -- like the Afterburner and Road Rash levels -- were awful, but none of that matters in regards to the full package either. 
 
Ninja Theory's history with framerate issues also doesn't really matter, as the majority believe their games to be good, and in the game industry, the majority's opinion becomes fact. For what it's worth, there isn't a single Ninja Theory game I like, though I've played them all and I understand their appeal. It's all mass-market appeal for one. They aren't looking to make super technical action games, just games that people will think are cool and/or pretty and/or have Andy Serkis in them. They know how to make character action games for people who might not like character action games is what I'm trying to say.
 
And I'm not saying that one franchise should suffer because another franchise is (in my opinion), better. I'm saying that one franchise WILL suffer because another franchise has taken its soul and went on to do bigger and better things with it on a (near) objective level. There is no one left at Capcom to produce Devil May Cry to an extent that Capcom feels would be satisfactory. That's evident by the fact that this game exists at all. Why take the risk of destroying a beloved franchise unless they believed their was no other choice? And when Bayonetta came out, the common consensus was "Oh, this is like Devil May Cry but way better." You might not believe so, but those reviews pretty much spoke for themselves. So what happens to Devil May Cry then? They can't just make a traditional Devil May Cry and expect it to still shine while Bayonetta is sitting right beside it, decked out in jewels and platinum.
 
Like I mentioned with Uncharted vs Tomb Raider, the presence of a superior game of the same genre is going to affect the direction other games take even if you don't personally believe in that superiority, especially if they're particularly derivative. Splinter Cell came out declaring itself a better stealth game than Metal Gear, even going as far as attacking it in marketing, but look how many reboots if went through while Metal Gear just kept going and turned into a crazy phenomenon. It's barely even the same franchise anymore. Hitman is the same way, though I personally because that series was unique enough that they didn't have to make the huge 180s they did in Absolution to stay relevant. Back in that Tomb Raider example, Crystal D could have just released another Tomb Raider continuing from TL:U, but in a post-Uncharted 2 and 3 industry, how well would that really have gone? Would it really sell well outside of the hardcore Tomb Raider/Lara Croft community?
#5 Posted by Fredchuckdave (6165 posts) -

Bayonetta is definitely better than every DMC except the Vergil fights are better than the Jeanne fights (or at least more varied) and weapon selection/balance was better in DMC3 (note everything else about DMC3 was worse apart from those 2 things). But as a DMC fan and someone who 100%'d 3 and 4 from what I've seen the game looks like it has made logical and effective improvements to a flawed, but fun franchise (the flaws were more acceptable when the original DMC was made to be sure, but a post God of War character action game needs to make improvements over time; and DMC4 sort of did some of those but wound up being just a good game instead of being a great one). I'm seriously considering purchasing it for the full price though I'll probably wait it out a bit and I almost never buy $60 games (2 games last year, 3 the year before that).

#6 Posted by Crysack (348 posts) -

@Ataribomb said:

I see where you're coming from for sure. And in a way, I agree. I bought the game today, and have been playing it since I got home. I guess the point that I've been struggling to properly articulate (and still am not sure I can) is that the game in every feels like a wolf in sheep's clothing. An imitator that learned the wrong lessons, and applied the wrong elements to the persona it's attempting to portray. Yeah I can talk all day about how the soft-lockon is imprecise, execution is far more forgiving, and the hit detection has sometimes gone apeshit on me, but that's boring. But there's also the issue of this being a Devil May Cry game that in no way feels like one. There's no heart, and absolutely no style behind it. The previous games (we do not acknowledge DMC2) were equal parts the player and the game having fun. It was cheesy, but it was endearing at the same time. This new game though is just a bunch of afflicted looking characters tossing around swears. There's still a level of silliness to the game for sure, but I can't reconcile it with the inconsistent seriousness that it throws at the player.

So basically I said all that to say this: I was hoping it would bomb (though I knew it wouldn't) because I didn't want to see the off-putting elements of the game be affirmed in the eyes of Capcom specifically. Because let's be real here, if this reboot is financially successful then that's what we're going to see more of, no matter what Capcom USA says.

Still going to power thought the game. Maybe something changes, and in fact I really hope something does. And of course, all this is just like, my opinion, man.

PS: You're totally right, I still have Bayo <3

This pretty much sums up my feelings about DmC.

#7 Posted by Klei (1768 posts) -

I want this reboot to work. Not for DMC's sake, because to be honest, my interest for the series died entirely with DMC4, which I ended up heavily disliking once Nero was out of the way. I want this reboot to work for Ninja Theory's sake. These dudes know how to spin stories and they know how to make cutscenes. They know how to build interesting worlds. if DmC bombs, their studio dies off and we'll be left with generic action games that follows the same boring blueprint since a decade.

That said, I had zero expectations with this DmC, and to be honest, it's my all-time favorite DMC game. They managed to squeeze a good little storyline within a series that had little to none. They managed to make every swear words matter, at least to me, because Dante reacts exactly as I would. And the gameplay. Man, do I love this game. Everything is so elegant and chains together which such fluidity. Fights seems much more alive and active that ever, at least to me.

And yeah, I miss the lock on. :(

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