I would really be enjoying this game if I were playing it as I would the original Doom games, but the fact that the secrets and collectibles are actually important this time around lead me to feel as though I have to inspect every pixel of every area of the game. With only the absolutely horrendous map to use as a rough guide, the process seems just as insufferable in this game as it does every other game, yet I've heard nothing but the opposite.

What am I missing, what makes collectibles in this game so good? Can I just play the game like a reasonable person and still get enough weapon upgrades to hold my own (I'm playing on Ultra-Violence)?

They aren't important exactly. They're just neat and well done. Killing demons and moving through the levels is important to the actual game. If that's fun and exploring the environment isn't, stop exploring.

Just spend your first 5 suit points on the exploration upgrades. The first one shows you where most things are and the second one makes your compass flash and beep when you are near a secret. I got those two upgrades as soon as I could, and never had an issue with finding secrets. The only time I couldn't get to a secret was because I was blocked off from it from progressing too far.

The map isn't horrendous, it's pretty good. Maybe you're looking at it the wrong way? Everything you see is something you can stand on, a door, or something you can pick up. The only reason I can think of it being "horrendous" is if you can't think of it in an abstract sort of way - it cuts all the bullshit, it doesn't show anything in the way of visual markers, just the layout, which is what makes it good as far as I'm concerned.

If you can find the automap, which usually isn't too out of the way, it will show every Argent Energy Cell, Elite Guard, and weapon upgrade floating robot box guy on the map. The only thing you need to do is figure out how to get to them, which is the part that I think is really smartly done. I think that's way better than hoping to stumble across collectibles while playing the game. The only thing the automap doesn't show - the secret classic level - isn't usually as hard to spot as you might think if you only look for an area of that map that looks closed off, flat, and rectangular like an old Doom map.

EDIT: Also, no, finding every last thing isn't that important. This is one of those games that you could probably beat without any upgrades if you're really, really good at it, so as long as you find some upgrades - and you will, they pretty much drop a good number of them directly in your way - you'll be able to make it through the game.

I mean, first thing I did was upgrade my suit to see the location of every collectible so I haven't been annoyed by them.

But it doesn't show things you can stand on, unless you just mean the floors of the map. And I'm pretty sure it only shows the doors that require keys. Regardless, almost all of the secrets aren't in main parts of the map, but rather off in secluded "islands" of the map that don't have communicated entry points, thus where ceaselessly scouring the map comes into play. At least for the way I visualize things, 3D maps are trash. Floors overlap all the time (as is the explicit goal of floors of a building), making it necessary to rotate the map in all sorts of odd, inscrutable angles just to see where you actually are or where you're going, so on and so forth. Floor plan type maps are infinitely better always, except at looking cool, which I'll admit the maps in this game do well.

And yeah, I immediately upgraded my suit to show the collectibles, but I find the map so unusable that it actually doesn't even help me really at all. I played the second level over to find the stuff I didn't find on my initial run through and it took me probably over a half an hour to navigate to the exit again after I finally got everything, which took even longer. I guess I'm just profoundly fucked in some sort of spacial understanding, since nobody else seems to have an issue. The collectibles highlight the problem, but none of the layouts in general actually have made much sense to me. As a result I feel stupid and lost the whole time I play it, which has been something of a trend this year, and the main reason I haven't finished Hyper Light Drifter.

Which is all a real bummer since I otherwise love playing this game. The smart person in me says that I should probably just step the difficulty down to normal and not give a shit about upgrading my weapons since I'd probably be fine, but the stubborn person in me wants to beat the game on Ultra-Violence and knows I probably would have a lot of trouble without upgrading my weapons, suit, and stats.

@yummytreesap: i do agree about the map being cryptic, but at the same time if it showed you how to obtain everything, that sense of discovery would be eliminated. i do get frustrated like you, because mostly i want to find all the secrets. however, i can appreciate a game that makes you work for lore. i see it as whatever i miss this time around, ill find on my next play through.

A philosophical question: If a game map tells you exactly how to get to a secret, is it still a secret?

As to your more general question about why this game does secrets correctly, let me put it this way: You're clearly frustrated with the way the map works. Given you dislike the effort needed to find a secret, when you do find one, would you rather that effort give you a meaningless collectible/achievement or actually contribute to character and weapon upgrades?

On Ultra-Violence I'm scouring each level for every secret and collectible and I'm having a good time. I find the map pretty easy to use...I was a tiny bit frustrated at first that every single path on the way to a secret isn't spelled out on the map, but then I figured it's part of the Doom legacy that some of the secrets are very difficult to find.

So far I've been able to figure everything out apart from that I looked up a guide to get one of the Secret Maps (the lever was hiding in plain sight, I should have found it myself) and I also looked up a guide to see if there was any way back to the earlier part of a level (it seemed that I'd progressed too far to go back to the first part for secrets; I was right). I guess my tolerance is to search for stuff until I'm no longer having a good time finding that last little secret, then I'll look it up in a guide.

In terms of how important the weapon upgrades are, I'd say you don't need to find every single one. As long as you're getting a few secrets in a level, and killing almost every enemy, you'll get enough upgrades to mod your favourite weapons. Generally speaking the upgrades don't increase the basic power of the weapons, they just make them more flexible, e.g. shotgun can become grenade launcher on the fly etc. I've been picking up every upgrade and playing around with all the mods but I'm not sure that overall I'm that much more combat-effective than I would be if I was just using the basic mode of each weapon.

More important are the Argent Cells -> I recommend at least getting those on each level. Health/Armour/Ammo upgrades are unilaterally useful. The Argent Cells, as far as I remember, haven't been all that hard to get at on each level. I wouldn't lose too much sleep on missing out on Elite Guards/Praetor Tokens -> those upgrades don't seem as useful as the Argent Cells.

@yummytreesap: you may be relying too much on maps showing you exactly where to go, which isn't that weird since modern games have trained us to follow glowing paths half the time. While I agree that the map in Hyoer Light Drifter is a little too stylized for its own good, both that game and Doom harken back to times when you were meant to simply explore. Drifter clues you in that the section you're in has a node, and then it's on you to walk around, explore and poke around until you find a path leading to that node. That's the whole point of exploration in a way, being shown a direct path from You to the secret wouldn't require any mental capacity from the player. If the map in Doom was a 1:1 representation of the level then what enjoyment would there be from actually finding the "secret." You know it's on a platform above you, so close the map, and just look around. In promotes being IN the game, instead of living through a map screen. That was the biggest problem with those Batman games - you played the whole things through detective vision because it told you everything.

I went through first time on Ultra-Violence ignoring every secret unless I happened upon it, so they certainly aren't required. The main through line through levels has intentionally placed upgrades that aren't hidden behind secrets so you aren't missing out or making the game too hard if you don't go out of your way for them.

I also find the map in Doom to possibly be the best map I've ever used in a video game. It's properly split, cleanly shows where you are and where the key intractable objects are while not cluttering it with a whole bunch of needless bullshit. It also makes it vague enough for the secrets to allude to something, but still making you have to use hints like the green lit platforms or items behind windows you can't get to to find your way.

It sounds like you don't really want to explore for the secrets but just having the map tell you where they are which kind of defeats the purpose. I had no issues finding the direct path to any of the labelled secrets, the only ones that tripped me up were the classic level levers because they aren't on the map.

Even without the map (which is a solid one) you can find a lot of the secrets without that much trouble. Often you can already see them in a closed off room or behind a closed gate. Rooms are often accessible through a vent or hatch and the gates open when you open something else to progress. And you also got some that you access with some platforming or taking that extra step to look around a corner.

So looking at the architecture of the level should often already tell where to go for the secret. You only constantly need the map when you want to go for 100% (which isn't needed even on nightmare difficulty).

I am 100%ing each level on Nightmare and my only complaint is when they lock doors behind you. Other than that finding everything but the secret door levers I'd say is pretty simple most of the time. I'd have to second the comments about the map being excellent. My only complaint with the map is the "explore radius" colouring in areas of the map I hadn't actually stepped on which led me to think I'd already checked that corner for secrets (when in fact I hadn't)

The upgrades aren't THAT vital. You'll get enough from just playing. Especially if you get the upgrade that puts secrets on the map. (I also think the map is pretty damn good)

The collectibles are done right, because they are fun to look for. It's like a mini-exploration puzzle every time. And they give tangible rewards that feel helpful, but even if you miss some it's not the biggest deal in the world. There's pretty much no losing scenario to their existance. They aren't intrusive or in the way, they fit thematically, they are fun to look for and satisifying to find and even if you don't go hunting it won't cripple you. 10/10

If you are struggling on Ultra-Violence without the upgrades, I'd consider lowering the difficulty. Almost no upgrades will make you die less (health/armor and the enviromental damage being the exceptions), they mostly just let you kill more efficiently or change how you play. So focusing too hard on getting that stuff won't take you much further.

EDIT: Wait you dislike the map for not showing you EXACTLY where to go? The entire point of the collectibles is that it gives you a rough area to explore and then you find the stuff on your own. T.T

The first two levels I hated the map. But then it clicked and I honestly think its the best i've ever seen!

In regards to secrets, I do look out for them but I have also missed a few and have not felt gimped at all.

The map is easy to follow but yes the collectibles are pretty pointless besides the upgrades. I'm not sure if it's just peoples nastolgia for old doom, but a lot of the things in this game have been overstated. The map almost trivializes the search for collectibles to me, however without it it would be impossible because 90% of the stuff just looks the same to me and it's often hard for me to tell what i can and can't get too.

I agree, knowing that the collectables/secrets gives you powerful upgrades completely changed how i wanted to play the game, for the worse. I got the upgrades to show secrets on the map but there are still hidden paths you have to find to get to them, sometimes those paths are locked until you do things further in the level so i end up running back to see if the path is ready yet, then run forward again, then run all the way back, sometimes you pass a point of no return which is infuriating, a level which should take 20-30 minutes to finish takes me an hour or longer, running around empty levels forever trying to find something i wouldn't care about if i didn't already know it was there.
The weapon and rune unlocks for performing certain actions is also annoying, the game wants me to have fun using its explosive arsenal to the best of my abilities, but also wants me to carefully line up shots on multiple weaker enemies so i can get the super shotgun upgrade, to get kills while airborne for greater air control, you can totally blame me for not being able to ignore this stuff, but it's really ruining the game for me.

It seems rather unfortunate, but sort of? In the original Doom, secrets seemed inessential because they were little more than a percentage given to the player at the end of a level. They'd sometimes contain some powerups that would be helpful for various scenarios, but that's about it. The important thing to restate here is that the number of secrets is only revealed after the level has been completed. This makes the player focus on the main task on hand rather than finding secrets. If they want to go back to the level at a later time and try to find more, great, it can be a rewarding experience, but it's also by no means necessary.

This Doom changes that by from the very beginning explicitly stating not only how many secrets each level contains, but also that the secrets consist of gameplay-changing items. The seeming essential nature of the collectibles coupled with how explicitly laid out they are takes makes me stop playing the game like I want to and more like I feel the game wants me to. The most useful weapon in the game so far was in a secret area; without having found that the game would be considerably more difficult. As such, I feel like I just can't miss anything and it makes the game less fun as a result.

All the stuff @cikame very accurately reflects what I feel, more eloquently than I've been able to express it.

The map upgrades mean you have the equivalent of a strategy guide in the pause screen.

If it's that much of a hassle for you, you can safely ignore the secrets and still get the upgrades just fine.

I don't actively seek out secrets and collectibles, I just get what I come across because this game is great at a brisk pace.

Play it that way. I don't see why you wouldn't just do that

For what it's worth, I just did the level where you climb the argent tower or whatever and found it to overall be far more enjoyable than the previous levels in terms of the secrets.

The way I'm playing this is occasionally glancing at the map, digging around on my own, and moving on pretty quickly. I like how its done but also don't care too much about any of it. I'm glad a lot of players seem to be enjoying this aspect but it's definitely something I wouldn't have missed had it not been included.

I'm just having fun with it so far. If I happen to find a secret lever or check the map and I right near one I'll hunt it down. Haven't used one upgrade point that helps finding secrets either.
I figure I'll definitely do another play-through, get those upgrades and find them all. Not really focusing on it and having no trouble progressing.