I like SMNC how much do I have to learn?

#1 Posted by Mister_V (1378 posts) -

So I have never played Dota or lol but I have played a fair bit of super Monday night combat. Now I know that the game is played from a different perspective but I always assumed the gameplay conventions involved where the same. So how well will my experiences in SMNC help me in Dota2? other than the fact this game has crafting? I'm not sure what's different.

#2 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5147 posts) -

You still have a lot to learn but it does help to know the basic idea of the map and terminology.

#3 Posted by MAGZine (438 posts) -

Lots. I'd say that Dota 2 or any other real MOBA are on the very hardest end of the scale of 'difficulty to pick up'.

I'm not really familiar with SMNC, but I'd gather you still have a LOT to learn.

#4 Posted by Nadril (536 posts) -

Besides knowing the basic concept you pretty much need to learn the entire game. Dota 2 and SMNC are incredibly different. There are a ton of concepts in Dota 2 that are completely gone from SMNC or made very 'casual'. Now, I haven't played much SMNC at all (I was in the beta, played like 10 games) but this is a lot of the stuff you can expect from dota:

Denying: Usually the thing people point out first. You can deny your own creeps starting at half HP. It's a very important gameplay convention that allows you to keep a lane static in order not to put yourself in danger.

A much more complicated map: The map in Dota 2 is so much more complicated than SMNC. (Well, SMNC has several maps, but they are all quite 'basic'). There is only one map in Dota, and it's incredibly complex. There are juke spots everywhere using the trees. Both sides are different as well with different advantages and disadvantages you need to understand. Each lane is different in Dota and different heroes excel there.

Laning setups: I'm not sure really how laning was "set up" in SMNC, but its very complex in dota. there are dual lanes, tri-lanes, solo lanes (and different kinds of solo lanes) and all sorts of crazy stuff. The pub standard is 2-1-2 (2 top, 1 mid, 2 bot) but you can see almost any combination of heroes in each lane.

Items: Items are probably one of the bigger differences between the two games. There are tons of unique items in the game that you need to farm up for and build. Different items are good in different situations.

Jungle: The jungle is more complicated than SMNC's, with creep pulling, creep stacking and all sorts of different tricks.

Hero complexity: Heroes can be much more complex in Dota. You have heroes who control multiple units at once or who have up to 10 spells at their disposal (rather than the normal 4).

There is a lot more than what I mentioned different about dota, but that's at least the basics of it.

#5 Posted by Mister_V (1378 posts) -

@Nadril Thanks for the detailed post. Consider me scared off, maybe ill try it when I have more time.

#6 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5147 posts) -

@Mister_V: There are a lot of Gaint Bomb dudes who just joined the game, you should try playing with them.

#7 Edited by Hungry (165 posts) -

Everyone talks about how hard Dota is to get into because of all the stuff you need to learn but honestly it isn't nearly as bad as it sounds. There are a lot of heroes who are all unique but in general at the level you jump into all you have to know is kind of how a hero plays. You don't even need to know the attack range and exact number of Drow Ranger's capabilities, just that around level 6 she starts to hurt a lot and slow you. All of the other stuff mentioned is oftentimes completely ignored at the matchmaking bracket you jump into. Dota is a learning process where you start off as utter trash, and slowly crawl your way up through the levels of bad.

That being said, the kind of Dota I (or people higher and way better than me, pros and semi-pros) play is almost a completely different game to the average and below-average skill level player.

#8 Posted by BisonHero (6674 posts) -
@Mister_V
@Nadril Thanks for the detailed post. Consider me scared off, maybe ill try it when I have more time.
You could try Awesonenauts, which is like SMNC but 2D sidescrolling and it moves somewhat faster than SMNC. GB did a quick look where Ryan had no idea how to play his character despite each character only having 2 abilities. Awesomenauts also has a modest community at least, whereas SMNC is effectively dead, with less than 200 people online.
#9 Posted by triple07 (1198 posts) -

A lot. But its definitely doable so I'd say go for it.

#10 Posted by Nadril (536 posts) -

@Hungry said:

Everyone talks about how hard Dota is to get into because of all the stuff you need to learn but honestly it isn't nearly as bad as it sounds. There are a lot of heroes who are all unique but in general at the level you jump into all you have to know is kind of how a hero plays. You don't even need to know the attack range and exact number of Drow Ranger's capabilities, just that around level 6 she starts to hurt a lot and slow you. All of the other stuff mentioned is oftentimes completely ignored at the matchmaking bracket you jump into. Dota is a learning process where you start off as utter trash, and slowly crawl your way up through the levels of bad.

That being said, the kind of Dota I (or people higher and way better than me, pros and semi-pros) play is almost a completely different game to the average and below-average skill level player.

Yeah not all of it is stuff you should know as a new player, just stuff that is in the game.

#11 Posted by Hungry (165 posts) -

@Nadril:

Yeah I wasn't criticizing your list of what is different, but when you give the list a lot of people are off-put by it. I think it is important to note while there is a TON of stuff to learn in Dota you don't have to learn even 10% of that laundry list to get started.

#12 Posted by John1912 (1910 posts) -

@Mister_V: Yea, LoL and Dota are extremely hard to just pick up and play, and made all the worse by the asshole community. Its you need to spend time with your heros to get a good feel for them, but prob the hardest thing for a new person imo are the items.

#13 Posted by Terramagi (1159 posts) -

The first thing you have to realize about DotA is that, like all ARTS games, you're going to suck at first.

Like, I don't care HOW MUCH shit you read, you're going to be absolute garbage at the execution at first.

First 5 games are basically "how badly am I dragging down my team which may or may not also be garbage".

#14 Posted by Hungry (165 posts) -

@Terramagi:

Yeah the way I have broken it down to my friends is that you have these plateaus of skill. Basically you hit a revelation where you realize that everything you have done was stupid and you have ascended to a slightly better tier of skill. As you pick things up along the way it is like you are climbing up the next sheer cliff until you reach the next relevation; the next plateau. I refer to the first two plateau's as:

1. Oh god what am I doing oh shit. The plateau you start on. You usually die a ton and get flamed continually by pubs.

2. Well at least I'm not feeding. The next plateau once you realize what to avoid so even if you are dead weight at least you aren't 0/22/3. This is usually when players start experimenting with aggressiveness and learning how to kill people. You still get flamed for being a useless hero but at the least you aren't negatively impacting your team, just you aren't positively impacting it either.

Usually along the way you pick up neat tricks. How different items work, a couple of builds and lane strategies. Usually plateau 2 is the hardest to climb past. Learning when to be aggressive and when not to requires a lot of game knowledge and analysis of the situation. The thing is, how much of that knowledge and analytical skill you need to apply is almost purely based on the skill level of your opponents.

#15 Posted by L44 (566 posts) -

I play LoL at least couple hours a day and I found Dota 2 pretty alien. This was my initial expierence with it "What, why can't I recall? Secret shops? OH SHIT THE DONKEY DIED. And nearly always picking Storm Spirit regardless of everyone else has never really worked out.

#16 Posted by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

It is quite a bit different, but still worth diving in. Read this guide first, http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck

That should get you knowing the basics before diving in. Just ask questions and realize that is a game where you can play 1000 hours and still be considered a noob. You will never actually master the game, but it is well worth the experience.

#17 Posted by Hungry (165 posts) -

@L44:

I had a nearly identical experience when I played League of Legends. "How do I buy items? Where is the chicken? Where is the TP? Why does everyone have a free blink?"

Except everyone at level 1 in League of Legends was trash so I just played Fiddlesticks like Queen of Pain and carried.

I want to note I am not trying to assert that a game is superior based on that anecdote. I just wanted to say I find it funny that we had nearly the same kind of confusion, just kind of in reverse.

Oh, and WHAT THE HELL IS BLUE BUFF AND WHY IS WARWICK CALLING ME A NOOB FOR TAKING IT.

#18 Posted by L44 (566 posts) -

@Hungry: "I ate a tree?" and "OH SHIT HE HAS FLASH ON LIKE A 5 SECOND COOLDOWN" are other 2 notables.

#19 Posted by Mister_V (1378 posts) -

Just thought I would update this thread and first of all say thanks to everyone who replied. I have purchased the game and after watching some how to vids and playing a coop bot match or two I think I'm beginning to get my head around it.

If anyone fancies a game my steam name is: Killfest

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