Official DOTA 2 GiantBomb Tournament

#101 Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@haroldonvu: I'll surely add you to the listings, mate. I'd also like to compliment you on a model application as you provided everything I required and more. I'll be adding you, as captain, on steam to discuss match-ups and matters related to the tournament. If you have any questions, you can ask me here or on steam.

I'd also like to add a further note; today is the last day for sign-ups. In order to ensure that everyone, no matter where it is you live, will have the full day to gather your team and make your final application, I'll allow sign-ups until 6 am EST tomorrow morning (thursday the 13th), this equals to 11 am GMT + 1 (London Time).

If you still have an application you'd like to make after said deadline, you're going to have to contact me or Cheap personally here through a private message for us to take it under consideration. Do keep in mind; if you miss the dead-line, there are NO assurances you'll get to play, infact, the likelihood is small. As such, I urge ALL people without a team to visit our sister thread once more, and make your final application today.

#102 Edited by Mr_Skeleton (5135 posts) -
#103 Edited by WeepingWillow (36 posts) -

Team Name: GFQ Gaming

Tag: GFQ

Bracket: Low

Name: WeepingWillow [Captain]

Position: Support

Wins: 25

Region: US East

Favorite Hero: Undying

Name: Ese51

Position: Carry

Wins: 89

Region: US East

Favorite Hero: Riki

Name: Colm

Position: Carry

Wins: 83

Region: US East

Favorite Hero: Phantom Assassin

Name: Sworen

Position: Carry/Support

Wins: 56

Region: US East

Favorite Hero: Invoker

Name: Clay Bones

Position: Support

Wins: 95

Region: US East

Favorite Hero: Veno

#104 Edited by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@weepingwillow: Haha, cutting it a bit close, mate. That said, welcome to the tournament. I'll add you to the listings a bit later on in the afternoon.

Sign ups end in four hours, everybody. Keep that in mind.

#105 Edited by eagle6002 (47 posts) -

Team name: The Brad Shoemakers

Tag: BS

Bracket: High

_______________________

Name: eagle6002 (Captain)

Wins: 700

Location: USE

Role: 2

Favorite Hero: Dark Seer

_______________________

Name: Shibboleth

Wins: 173

Location: USE

Role: 5

Favorite Hero: Wind Runner

_______________________

Name: Videohead

Wins: 611

Location: USE

Role: 1

Favorite Hero: OD

_______________________

Name: Quesadildo (Flabbergastrate on GB)

Wins: 200

Location: US

Role: 4

Favorite Hero: Wind Runner

_______________________

Name: Woutr

Wins: 200

Location: Netherlands

Role: 3

_______________________

Contact: eagle6002

#106 Edited by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@eagle6002: Welcome to the tournament, mate. Appreciate you girls signing up; this leaves us with a nice stack of 8 high bracket teams and 5 lower bracket ones. A pretty decent figure, I'd say. That said, you need to give me your steam info so that I can contact you and set up matches. Secondly, you should also add a role to each of your team-members (though there's no rush in doing so). That said, welcome and we hope you enjoy. If you got any questions, feel free to ask me here or on steam.

And with this, sign-ups have ended. We will now go over the teams and set up the tournament in it's whole-some. We're kicking the tournament off with two sets of matches this weekend, on saturday and on sunday respectively. We hope to see you all there; check the first page for more information!

#107 Edited by HaroldoNVU (591 posts) -

So, we have and odd number of team in the lower bracket. I wasn't familiar with double elimination tournaments, most sports I follow are traditionally single elimination or round robin but I looked it up online and it seems it works pretty well with a odd number of competitors. Looking forward to watch the high level matches this weekend. GLHF.

#108 Posted by preppypimp (3 posts) -

Hi i'm Shadow Revenger[the substitute of the @haroldonvu's team], does the sign-ups for low bracket are open? i want to invite a team of friends

#109 Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@haroldonvu: @preppypimp: Possibly; send me a private message with the full info and I'll consider it. Sign-ups have ended; so I can't promise anything.

Uneven team-amounts still work. It's a bit more complicated to set up, which is why I'm willing to consider your pal's application. If he gets it done fast, that is.

#110 Posted by EvilCookie (1 posts) -

Hi I have heard about this Tournament and I would like to know if I could cast this on my Twitch. Please E-mail me back for Infomation! Thanks!

#111 Posted by eagle6002 (47 posts) -
#112 Edited by Ohnooz (2 posts) -

Team Name - Angry Bards

Tag - AB

Bracket - High

_______________________

Name - Lant

Wins - 465

Location - USA Central

Role - Flexible

_______________________

Name - Tanners

Wins - 553

Location - USA Central

Role - Initiation/Ganker

_______________________

Name - Gumdrops

Wins - 367

Location - USA Central

Role - Support/Ganker

_______________________

Name - Raika

Wins - 316 (No DotAbuff)

Location - USA Central

Role - Initiation/Ganker

_______________________

Name - arroyo

Wins - 60 (no DotAbuff)

Location - USA Central

Role - Hard Support

_______________________

On top of us entering myself and Tanners can cast some games. As you can tell by this VOD we are very professional.

#113 Edited by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@ohnooz: I do appreciate your willingness to join the frey, mate; and the offer for casting is very welcome. Unfortunately, sign-ups ended over 8 hours ago after a one-week period; and that had already been extended once. I'll considering your application, but in your position, I wouldn't bet on inclusion in the tournament at this juncture.

That said; whether you gain position or not, you're still very welcome to cast any games you'd like and I promise you and your team a spot for the next tournament.

#114 Edited by Ohnooz (2 posts) -

@do_the_manta_ray: Understandable, it's been a crazy week in the midwest here so it's amazing I even get that posted. We will defiantly look forward to casting some games!

#115 Edited by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@ohnooz: That's a damn charitable attitude, mate. We appreciate it. Give me your steam information so that we can talk a few of the technical stuff through, would you, mate?

#116 Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@ellenpudge: @akd: @sixghost: @mczak1: @haroldonvu: @finlayheslop: @eagle6002: @weepingwillow:
I believe I sent you all a link on steam with a google doc for the time-tables; please, fill that in to indicate when you'd be available to play. Use your time-zone as the marker. For example; if you'd like to play on the 22nd at 10 AM, you write your time zone (GMT + 1, EST, PST, etc) under that header.

#117 Edited by CheapPoison (716 posts) -

@ellenpudge: @akd: @sixghost: @mczak1: @haroldonvu: @finlayheslop: @eagle6002: @weepingwillow:

The google doc has been changed so that there should be no issue editing it now. We strongly encourage you guys to put up some possible timeslots as soon as possible so we can start scheduling the other games.If not we will be forced to assign a time to the teams on the basis of the teams that have submitted their ideal times.We would like to have everyone play one match within the next week/10days whatever seems feasible.

Not to pressure you guys, but just to give everyone a reminder and to keep this thing moving when there is still interest.

#118 Posted by Winternet (8000 posts) -

So how the hell is the low bracket tournament going to work?

#119 Posted by HaroldoNVU (591 posts) -

So, those were some pretty entertaining matches this weekend. Looking forward to some clumsy noob action next weekend. Could you guys post the match IDs for those?

@cheappoison I filled out with our free time schedule for the next couple of weekends. Sorry for the delay, crazy day at work.

@winternet I'm curious as well. TournamentDesign.org has good model for a 5 team double elimination tournament.

#120 Posted by Winternet (8000 posts) -

@haroldonvu: I think it's the only model that suits, right? I just don't like the concept. Especially the fact that not everyone starts on equal footing.

#121 Posted by darkwhitehair (16 posts) -

@haroldonvu I tried looking up how to post replays for games that were held in private lobbies, apparently only players who were taking part in the game can download them and then manually share that file outside of dota, which is quite a hassle. If you find a better way let us know.

#122 Edited by preppypimp (3 posts) -

Just asking, when the low bracket matches will start? thanks :)

#123 Posted by HaroldoNVU (591 posts) -

@winternet: truth is that elimination style tournament work better for multiples of 4 as it was originally intented. Personally I'm a fan of double round-robin but whatever the format I'm game.

#124 Posted by ajamafalous (11809 posts) -

@haroldonvu said:

@winternet: truth is that elimination style tournament work better for multiples of 4 as it was originally intented. Personally I'm a fan of double round-robin but whatever the format I'm game.

The problem with double round robin is that it's a shit ton of games. It's a logistical nightmare as far as scheduling goes, and we're already running into some captains not getting back to us about when their team can play. It's also a lot less exciting as far as tournaments go if one team starts to run away with it early, which is the trap that the last community tournament fell into.

So, those were some pretty entertaining matches this weekend. Looking forward to some clumsy noob action next weekend. Could you guys post the match IDs for those?

Unfortunately, as dark said, only players who actually played (e.g. we can't see them as casters) have access to the replays of private games. You can check out my twitch (linked in the OP) for the casts of the games, but if you want to dig around in the replays, you'll have to get in touch with the team captains who played in the games, provided they'll even give you access to the replays for scouting purposes.

#125 Edited by Winternet (8000 posts) -

@haroldonvu said:

@winternet: truth is that elimination style tournament work better for multiples of 4 as it was originally intented. Personally I'm a fan of double round-robin but whatever the format I'm game.

The problem with double round robin is that it's a shit ton of games. It's a logistical nightmare as far as scheduling goes, and we're already running into some captains not getting back to us about when their team can play. It's also a lot less exciting as far as tournaments go if one team starts to run away with it early, which is the trap that the last community tournament fell into.

I had more of an idea of a round-robin Bo1 style just to sort things out. In the double-elimination format all the teams will play at least 4 sets, which would be exactly the number of sets each team would play in this round-robin. After that, the team that went 5th is eliminated and then 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd in the semis, then finals.

@haroldonvu said:

So, those were some pretty entertaining matches this weekend. Looking forward to some clumsy noob action next weekend. Could you guys post the match IDs for those?

Unfortunately, as dark said, only players who actually played (e.g. we can't see them as casters) have access to the replays of private games. You can check out my twitch (linked in the OP) for the casts of the games, but if you want to dig around in the replays, you'll have to get in touch with the team captains who played in the games, provided they'll even give you access to the replays for scouting purposes.

Dota 2 professional espionage!

#126 Edited by ajamafalous (11809 posts) -

@winternet said:

@ajamafalous said:

@haroldonvu said:

@winternet: truth is that elimination style tournament work better for multiples of 4 as it was originally intented. Personally I'm a fan of double round-robin but whatever the format I'm game.

The problem with double round robin is that it's a shit ton of games. It's a logistical nightmare as far as scheduling goes, and we're already running into some captains not getting back to us about when their team can play. It's also a lot less exciting as far as tournaments go if one team starts to run away with it early, which is the trap that the last community tournament fell into.

I had more of an idea of a round-robin Bo1 style just to sort things out. In the double-elimination format all the teams will play at least 4 sets, which would be exactly the number of sets each team would play in this round-robin. After that, the team that went 5th is eliminated and then 1st vs 4th and 2nd vs 3rd in the semis, then finals.

I think a best of 1 single round-robin to decide seeding is a decent idea (I was comparing a Bo3 double-round when comparing game numbers), but it's still significantly more scheduling to deal with, which, again, we're already having trouble with. We've still got some time to decide, as I think the plan is to finish up the High bracket before starting on the Low, but I could be wrong on that one, so don't quote me.

Also, if it were up to me, instead of eliminating the 5th place team, I think it's more fair to give the 1st place team from the round-robin the 1st Round bye.

Again, either way, all of this tourney admin stuff is up to Black and Cheap; I'm just casting and adminning games.

#127 Edited by HaroldoNVU (591 posts) -

@ajamafalous: That's 10 matches in single round, 20 in double round-robin if you ditch the bo3 which only works with elimination style tournament, that's roughly the same amount of matches as a bo3 double elimination format. Single round-robin to seed is a good idea, the problem then becomes then number of matches unless it's just to qualify two teams for the final bo3 match. Anyway, like I said any format Blackmoore and Cheap pick is fine by me, all will pros and cons and really I'm just happy to be a part of the whole thing.

#128 Edited by Winternet (8000 posts) -

Also, if it were up to me, instead of eliminating the 5th place team, I think it's more fair to give the 1st place team from the round-robin the 1st Round bye.

Well, but that would mean that team would go straight to the finals. That's maybe too much of a bonus.

Regarding the schedule problems, the BO1 style can negate some of that. Especially if we do it on weekend, then we can have 3 or 4 teams at the same time and go through a bunch of games in 2 or 3 hours.

#129 Posted by ajamafalous (11809 posts) -

@haroldonvu: said:

@ajamafalous: That's 10 matches in single round, 20 in double round-robin if you ditch the bo3 which only works with elimination style tournament, that's roughly the same amount of matches as a bo3 double elimination format. Single round-robin to seed is a good idea, the problem then becomes then number of matches unless it's just to qualify two teams for the final bo3 match. Anyway, like I said any format Blackmoore and Cheap pick is fine by me, all will pros and cons and really I'm just happy to be a part of the whole thing.

The math can't really be compared that easily, though. In a Bo3DE, you've got 8 matchups, each scheduled for 2 or 3 games (i.e. a ~3 hour commitment, 16-24 games total, or 17-26 if we do a Bo5 for the finals). Additionally, the more successful teams play more, which leads to scheduling not being as much of an issue, because the teams that are winning are more likely to want to continue playing. I won't consider a single round robin by itself just because Dota is as much about reacting and adapting in the picking phase than it is about performing in-game. That leaves us with a round robin with 10 matchups, where each of the matchups consists of at least 2 games (because, again, it's ridiculous to only have each team play each other team once without any chance to adapt to their drafts based on a previous game). Presumably these would be scheduled back to back, so it would be something like a 2-3 hour time commitment with 20 games total. The problem you run into is that each team plays 8 games regardless of record, so a team that goes 0-4/1-3 in their first two matchups has little incentive to continue scheduling games if it doesn't look like they have a chance to win overall. This is, if I remember correctly, exactly what happened in the last community tournament; one team was wildly more successful than the rest and stomped through the first few matchups, which led the rest of the teams to stop caring about scheduling and the tournament fell apart. An elimination bracket is much better because, not only does every game mean something to the viewers, but the matchups are between successful teams and will always decide bracket advancement, so both teams always have an incentive to continue scheduling games.

If we add a Bo1 single round robin for seeding into the Bo3DE bracket, we'd have 26-34 games. It's the fairest way to go without running into the issues of the last tournament, but it's also the most time-consuming. I almost wouldn't be opposed to ignoring the round robin for the sake of scheduling and time and just seeding based on something like an inverted seeding of average MM wins, tournament signup order, or even just letting RNG handle it, but these obviously all have very valid criticisms, with RNG being the fairest of the three.

@ajamafalous said:

Also, if it were up to me, instead of eliminating the 5th place team, I think it's more fair to give the 1st place team from the round-robin the 1st Round bye.

Well, but that would mean that team would go straight to the finals. That's maybe too much of a bonus.

Regarding the schedule problems, the BO1 style can negate some of that. Especially if we do it on weekend, then we can have 3 or 4 teams at the same time and go through a bunch of games in 2 or 3 hours.

That's actually not what it means; take a look at the bracket linked by Harold earlier. Exclude Game 9. Game 8 is the Grand Finals; Game 6 is the Winner's Bracket Finals.

The problem with multiple games at the same time is that we wouldn't be able to have casters and tourney admins in all the games.



Overall, I'm sure you guys can see this is a lot to deal with, and it's part of the reason you guys haven't heard anything from us yet. This is our first tournament, so we're just trying to get it done as quickly and painlessly as possible. I think I speak for everyone involved when I say that we hope it'll become a regular thing, but in order to do that we've gotta make it through the first one first.

#130 Posted by Winternet (8000 posts) -

@ajamafalous: Yeah, but that bracket is for the 5-team DE. Which is not the case with the round robin stage. It's just regular-ass tournament after it. Semis then finals, no double elimination thingy. If you give 1st place a bye, you're placing him in the finals.

Regarding the math, it would be 10 sets in the round robin stage and then 4-6 sets in the semis and 2-3 sets in the finals (or 3-5 sets if you want to make the finals a bigger thing and make it Bo5). Overall, you're looking at a 16-19 (or 17-21 with a Bo5 finals) when with the 5-team DE you're looking at 16-27 (17-31 with a Bo5 finals). So, while the 5-team DE has fewer matches (by 4 or 5) it will very likely end up having more sets thus becoming more time consuming.

#131 Posted by ajamafalous (11809 posts) -

@ajamafalous: Yeah, but that bracket is for the 5-team DE. Which is not the case with the round robin stage. It's just regular-ass tournament after it. Semis then finals, no double elimination thingy. If you give 1st place a bye, you're placing him in the finals.

Regarding the math, it would be 10 sets in the round robin stage and then 4-6 sets in the semis and 2-3 sets in the finals (or 3-5 sets if you want to make the finals a bigger thing and make it Bo5). Overall, you're looking at a 16-19 (or 17-21 with a Bo5 finals) when with the 5-team DE you're looking at 16-27 (17-31 with a Bo5 finals). So, while the 5-team DE has fewer matches (by 4 or 5) it will very likely end up having more sets thus becoming more time consuming.

It's like you didn't even read my post :/

#132 Posted by Winternet (8000 posts) -

@ajamafalous: You talked about Harold's bracket. I said that wasn't the concept in my idea. So, maybe you didn't read my post? I dunno what you talking about now.

#133 Edited by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@winternet: Speaking of brackets; seeing as you got so much time on your hand, how about filling out the other dates on the spreadsheet which we sent you? A single won't begin to cut it, I'm afraid; especially not on such late notice. What we need to do in order to get the low bracket going at this point, isn't discussing how it should or even could be done. We need to prime and encourage the captains to get out there, talk to their team and set up times when they can play. I'm looking at you, fella'.

@sixghost: I'm looking even more at you and it ain't only cause you're prettier than him.

#134 Edited by Winternet (8000 posts) -

@do_the_manta_ray: I talked with Cheap. He told me he would get in touch with me when he knew more. And it was you that ask me if our team could play Tuesday or Wednesday, so if anyone was on late notice it sure wasn't me.

Oh and the other dates aren't filled because there are no other days for us to play this week.

So yeah, I have plenty of time to hang here discussing brackets and stuff. And you can look at me all you want. I know you like it.

#135 Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

Alright; this week-end is gonna' be busy! We've already set up 2 games for this coming sunday, and we'll most likely set up another 2 for the saturday; coming to a total of 4 sets of games this week-end. However, because we all know how impatient you girlies are, we've set up a short-notice game tomorrow which marks the start of the low-bracket tournament.

Check out the schedule, guys; hope to see you there.

#136 Posted by darkwhitehair (16 posts) -

Hey i just wanna say that if we can set up 3 games on sat and sun (split em up between morn/afternoon and evening) then that would be even more tits. Then again, im not lifting any heavy loads so my opinion doesnt really count. Thing is even though the last two games were stomps they are still more fun to cast and watch than the regular inhouses, and after the tourney games we are so hyped that we HAVE to cast inhouses. If more teams would just fucking man up and clear their schedules then maybe we can get through this tournament before Dota 3 is released.

#137 Posted by Ratfoot (199 posts) -

Schedule is up for us, looking forward to playing on Saturday hopefully.

#138 Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@darkwhitehair: The second set of games wasn't a stomp, you bugger! That said; I very much doubt we'll see that many games this week-end. Who knows, mind; possibility is there. For now, however; I changed the schedule of the first set of games on sunday to ensure that the two sets do not overlap and you girls can cast 'em both.

#139 Posted by HaroldoNVU (591 posts) -

So, no match yesterday?

#140 Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@haroldonvu: Apparently the one team cancelled on us earlier in the day, and neither I, nor the casters had been informed. We'll attempt to reschedule the one team who did show. As for GFQ Gaming, they're out of the tournament. You might think I'm being harsh, but they also decided to inform us that they won't be able to play for an additional two weeks; so in order to keep the tournament running, we're disqualifying them.

#141 Edited by ArcView (2 posts) -

Are you sure of how you built your brackets?

The way you currently designed brackets (of the high level group at least), losers in round 2, 3 and 4 are out of the tournament. And the grand final could only match winners of the winner bracket against a team that lost in the first round.

Not that I'm against it but it sounds weird. Either you separate what you call winner and loser bracket (they don't match at the end). Or you go for a real double-elimination tournament.

#142 Edited by CheapPoison (716 posts) -

@arcview: That will be included, it gets changed in the moment, just like there is no set thing for the newbie group yet.

And fixed as of this moment.

#143 Posted by ArcView (2 posts) -

Nice to see you react so quickly.However the way you put it is still not the way of a formal double-elimination tournament ! Losers of round 2 and more should face losers of previous rounds in the loser bracket, and not teams that have been defeated at the same point in the winner bracket. (Not sure I'm really clear here...)

I should have started with this: 8DEBracket This is how it is "usually" done for a 8 teams double-elimination bracket.

But then again I'm okay with any format you might chose. Thanks for the tournament and your efforts anyway!

#144 Posted by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

@arcview: Afraid your link doesn't work, mate. To clarify, the bracket we're show-casing represents which teams are playing, not the fashion in which we are setting up the matches. Here is a nigh-on accurate representation of the actual process we'll be using to select teams for match-ups. As I reckon you'll see, it's pretty close to optimal. If you, however, have got any further constructive criticism you'd like to relay to us after viewing said document, please, don't hesitate to inform us. Any and all help is appreciated as this is, after all, a community tournament.

#145 Posted by Kolh (14 posts) -

I believe this is the link he wanted to share

#146 Posted by ajamafalous (11809 posts) -
@kolh said:

I believe this is the link he wanted to share

Just to clarify: yes, this matches the bracket we've been using internally: your everyday, run-of-the-mill 8 team double-elimination bracket. I believe the front-facing bracket might not've been totally clear, but we've been using a completely normal and standard 8DE to set up and keep track of the matches, so there's not anything to worry about.

#147 Posted by preppypimp (3 posts) -

cmon , i wanna play -______-

#148 Edited by Do_The_Manta_Ray (564 posts) -

Set 3 of the tournament is up and running. Cheeck it out now!

Edit: Well, that was crazy. Second set of the day and fifth in total up at 9 PM EST, that makes it 3 in the AM GMT + 2 (Paris Time).

#149 Posted by McZak1 (4 posts) -

Some crazy ass games going on :/

#150 Posted by ajamafalous (11809 posts) -

Here's the link to the VODs of tonight's matchup between The Brad Shoemakers and /d2g/ Ocelots. Three very long and mostly passive games, but at least they can say they were the first teams to go to Game 3!

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