Why not a TNT of Dota 2?

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#1 Posted by Joeyoe31 (820 posts) -

Or at least a quick look. I understand the game isn't complete but I remember a LONG time ago when Dota 2 wasn't even out yet Brad said on the bombcast that "We should do a TNT as soon as that game is playable." and everyone agreed.

Any idea why this hasn't happened yet?

#2 Posted by scarace360 (4828 posts) -

None of them know how to play a moba.

#3 Posted by phrosnite (3518 posts) -

HAhahahaha. No. Even if you do it with GB only it there will be time for 2 games. Not to mention that the GB crew knows nothing about the game. Their LoL knowledge isn't enough.

#4 Posted by Zaccheus (1792 posts) -

@phrosnite said:

HAhahahaha. No. Even if you do it with GB only it there will be time for 2 games. Not to mention that the GB crew knows nothing about the game. Their LoL knowledge isn't enough.

This.

#5 Posted by StarvingGamer (8150 posts) -

Probably one of the most TNT-unfriendly games in existence.

#6 Edited by BabyChooChoo (4395 posts) -

@StarvingGamer said:

Probably one of the most TNT-unfriendly games in existence.

That and I'm pretty sure the chat would be an absolute nightmare considering that, most of the time, it's already bad enough. Also, for some reason I keep envisioning the TNT, in some form, ending up on PlayDotA and Reddit and just a bunch of overly aggressive sociopaths getting bent out of shape because 'they don't know how to play.'

#7 Edited by Codeacious (960 posts) -

Glad everyone's already said everything I was going to say myself.

That game would not make for a good TNT.

#8 Posted by MAGZine (437 posts) -

@BabyChooChoo: you can't get mad cuz bads be bad. uninstall. etc.

#9 Posted by Joeyoe31 (820 posts) -

Okay, I was just wondering. These were pretty much the reasons that I thought of when I thought of the question myself. I was just making sure.

@BabyChooChoo said:

@StarvingGamer said:

Probably one of the most TNT-unfriendly games in existence.

That and I'm pretty sure the chat would be an absolute nightmare considering that, most of the time, it's already bad enough. Also, for some reason I keep envisioning the TNT, in some form, ending up on PlayDotA and Reddit and just a bunch of overly aggressive sociopaths getting bent out of shape because 'they don't know how to play.'

That'd be pretty funny. A bunch of tryhards getting mad at people who know they aren't good at the game.

#10 Posted by ajamafalous (11959 posts) -

Everyone has already said what I was going to say.

#11 Posted by Cloudenvy (5891 posts) -

Aww, people have already mentioned all the reasons I was going to.

#12 Posted by Slag (4250 posts) -

Would it really be that bad if they handpicked who played with them? To keep leavers etc from ruining the game?

I mean who cares what people rage about them elsewhere or in chat, I think a MOBA would be fun to watch for one TNT anyway.

#13 Posted by RainDog505 (100 posts) -

@scarace360 said:

None of them know how to play a moba.

Remember how awful Ryan was at Super Monday Night Combat. And that's a MOBA-lite/shooter hybrid.

#14 Posted by supamon (1333 posts) -

They barely have any idea how to play a MOBA and their attitude says they don't care nor do they want to learn it. Frankly, if they were to do one, please get someone who knows how to play Dota 2 like that dude they invited to play Battlefield 3 DLC on TNT.

#15 Posted by TaliciaDragonsong (8698 posts) -

Get some Valve dudes over for a quick look ex.

#16 Posted by WhiteBrightKnight (166 posts) -

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

Get some Valve dudes over for a quick look ex.

I agree with this in terms of a quick look it would be the only real option unless one of the GB guys decided to take the time and learn it.

I was thinking the same thing as the op, they definitely should have some coverage of it considering its been in beta for so long that no one I know who wanted a key hasn't gotten one. The only way I could see a TNT working is as a scrub league if they get a lot of the GS guys to join them, even then I don't think it would be great.

#17 Posted by ajamafalous (11959 posts) -
@Slag said:

Would it really be that bad if they handpicked who played with them? To keep leavers etc from ruining the game?

I mean who cares what people rage about them elsewhere or in chat, I think a MOBA would be fun to watch for one TNT anyway.

The reason is not because of the people who play with them, it's because they have no idea how to play a game which takes hundreds of matches to understand the nuances of. It would not be a good showcase for the game, nor would it be fun to watch them attack move a lane and then get rolled in every teamfight.
#18 Posted by Slag (4250 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

@Slag said:

Would it really be that bad if they handpicked who played with them? To keep leavers etc from ruining the game?

I mean who cares what people rage about them elsewhere or in chat, I think a MOBA would be fun to watch for one TNT anyway.

The reason is not because of the people who play with them, it's because they have no idea how to play a game which takes hundreds of matches to understand the nuances of. It would not be a good showcase for the game, nor would it be fun to watch them attack move a lane and then get rolled in every teamfight.

Given Vinny and Jeff's NCAA Football quicklook I don't think that's a problem. If anything their lack of knowledge would probably make it more amusing. Is there many TnTs where the guys are playing a high level? I thought the point of TnT was Lulz and a good time. I don't expect them to know the nuances either, but why does that matter if they don't?

Personally I don't think DotA or any other MOBA is that hard to learn, hard to master but it doesn't take long to get the basics. I imagine Jeff and Brad in particular could pick it up pretty quickly.

#19 Posted by Slag (4250 posts) -

@TaliciaDragonsong said:

Get some Valve dudes over for a quick look ex.

There you go.

That's probably the best way to handle it.

#20 Posted by ajamafalous (11959 posts) -
@Slag said:

@ajamafalous said:

@Slag said:

Would it really be that bad if they handpicked who played with them? To keep leavers etc from ruining the game?

I mean who cares what people rage about them elsewhere or in chat, I think a MOBA would be fun to watch for one TNT anyway.

The reason is not because of the people who play with them, it's because they have no idea how to play a game which takes hundreds of matches to understand the nuances of. It would not be a good showcase for the game, nor would it be fun to watch them attack move a lane and then get rolled in every teamfight.

Given Vinny and Jeff's NCAA Football quicklook I don't think that's a problem. If anything their lack of knowledge would probably make it more amusing. Is there many TnTs where the guys are playing a high level? I thought the point of TnT was Lulz and a good time. I don't expect them to know the nuances either, but why does that matter if they don't?

Personally I don't think DotA or any other MOBA is that hard to learn, hard to master but it doesn't take long to get the basics. I imagine Jeff and Brad in particular could pick it up pretty quickly.

That's the issue, though; it wouldn't be amusing nor fun to watch them get completely fucked in every fight because they have no idea what any of the heroes do, or what items to buy for what situation, etc. It's essentially the same reason they always had someone else play TF2, even though TF2 isn't confusing at all and is just a first person shooter. I think the only way it would be watchable is if they did an office scrub league of ten people who all have no idea what they're doing.
 
They'd also only be able to get in two games before TNT was over.
#21 Posted by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

I doubt they ever will. Honestly, I don't want them to. I usually love all the content they do, but Dota is something I do not want them to touch. The only way it could possibly work is if someone from Valve sat in with them. Or if they got a professional player in on the cast to play while they ask questions. Outside of that they would need someone to sink at least a few hundred hours into the game and then have them on to answer questions.

#22 Posted by Marz (5648 posts) -

it's technically still in beta and i still know people who don't have access. I'd wait for the official release and then you can start begging for a quicklook.

#23 Posted by Christoffer (1798 posts) -

Team Giant Bomb versus Team Gamespot in one of the worst Dota 2 games ever played. I would watch that.

I actually know nothing about Mobas so couldn't tell a first timer from a paid pro.

#24 Posted by bartok (2469 posts) -

They should TNT all the DOTAs. 

#25 Posted by Slag (4250 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

That's the issue, though; it wouldn't be amusing nor fun to watch them get completely fucked in every fight because they have no idea what any of the heroes do, or what items to buy for what situation, etc. It's essentially the same reason they always had someone else play TF2, even though TF2 isn't confusing at all and is just a first person shooter. I think the only way it would be watchable is if they did an office scrub league of ten people who all have no idea what they're doing. They'd also only be able to get in two games before TNT was over.

Well I did envision them playing against other people of their own skill level. You're right if they played serious players, it would be crushingly depressing to watch. If Whiskey was still around an all Whiskey media game would have been funny.

As far two games only, I don't see that as a problem. If anything it makes easier to follow the game's narrative. Some of the shorter games tend to get dull on TNT by the tenth match in or so. Maybe that's just me as a Sports fan. I watch NBA, NFL and MLB pretty often so 90 minutes seems pretty quick to me.

#26 Posted by scarace360 (4828 posts) -

@RainDog505 said:

@scarace360 said:

None of them know how to play a moba.

Remember how awful Ryan was at Super Monday Night Combat. And that's a MOBA-lite/shooter hybrid.

Well they could get 2 teams of people playing and they could commentate.

#27 Posted by ahgunsillyo (448 posts) -

Dota 2's out? I didn't know that.

#28 Posted by supamon (1333 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

@Slag said:

@ajamafalous said:

@Slag said:

Would it really be that bad if they handpicked who played with them? To keep leavers etc from ruining the game?

I mean who cares what people rage about them elsewhere or in chat, I think a MOBA would be fun to watch for one TNT anyway.

The reason is not because of the people who play with them, it's because they have no idea how to play a game which takes hundreds of matches to understand the nuances of. It would not be a good showcase for the game, nor would it be fun to watch them attack move a lane and then get rolled in every teamfight.

Given Vinny and Jeff's NCAA Football quicklook I don't think that's a problem. If anything their lack of knowledge would probably make it more amusing. Is there many TnTs where the guys are playing a high level? I thought the point of TnT was Lulz and a good time. I don't expect them to know the nuances either, but why does that matter if they don't?

Personally I don't think DotA or any other MOBA is that hard to learn, hard to master but it doesn't take long to get the basics. I imagine Jeff and Brad in particular could pick it up pretty quickly.

That's the issue, though; it wouldn't be amusing nor fun to watch them get completely fucked in every fight because they have no idea what any of the heroes do, or what items to buy for what situation, etc. It's essentially the same reason they always had someone else play TF2, even though TF2 isn't confusing at all and is just a first person shooter. I think the only way it would be watchable is if they did an office scrub league of ten people who all have no idea what they're doing. They'd also only be able to get in two games before TNT was over.

I'm not sure watching ten people fumble around in dota 2 is a good idea...I can just imagine the right-clicking at at enemy tower and buying two boots thinking they can go faster...

#29 Posted by SirPsychoSexy (1328 posts) -

I think it would be fun to watch, even if they were a bit clueless

#30 Posted by Phatmac (5725 posts) -

They aren't hardcore enough for you MLG MOBA folks. Or you know, maybe they don't care?

#31 Posted by IndieFinch (242 posts) -

@SirPsychoSexy said:

I think it would be fun to watch, even if they were a bit clueless

The problem is that it would be like someone wanting to see what the NFL is about. Then you show them a bunch of 8yr old kids playing PeeWee flag football as a point of reference. It wont really show what Dota is because they will be stuck on the "AH SO MANY HEROS...SO MANY ITEMS...SO MANY COLORS!...Ah this game sucks...I dont get why people play it." If one of them sunk 100+ hours into it before a Quicklook, then that would be great. But the chance of that happening is zero.

#32 Posted by davidwitten22 (1708 posts) -

As a casual Dota 2 watcher I can say that, unless it was something awesome like a scrub league, it would be absolutely painful to watch. If the staff did a 5v5 on the public ladder they would get stomped, as it takes a long time just to even get used to how the game operates, regardless of other "MOBA" experience.

#33 Posted by Dagbiker (6970 posts) -

@scarace360 said:

None of them know how to play a moba.

This.

#34 Posted by pornstorestiffi (4911 posts) -

@Phatmac said:

They aren't hardcore enough for you MLG MOBA folks. Or you know, maybe they don't care?

Would like to think they don't give a shit about that. Its not a game i have interest in, but it could be pretty funny to watch the guys play it. If only for the sole purpose of making other player extremely aggravated.

#35 Posted by ajamafalous (11959 posts) -
@Phatmac said:

They aren't hardcore enough for you MLG MOBA folks. Or you know, maybe they don't care?

It's not that we're too 'hardcore' for them, it's that it would be painful to watch and not fun in the slightest. It would be like if I handed my mom a 360 controller and told her to try to play Battlefield 3. She'd spend more time dead than alive, and the time that she was alive she'd spend turning in circles looking at the sky.
#36 Posted by Phatmac (5725 posts) -

@pornstorestiffi: Brad will give it a shot so I'd expect a quick look.

#37 Posted by 49th (2731 posts) -

They work in a building full of video game journalists. I'm sure they can find someone to play the game for TNT and then just talk about it or do dumb stuff.

#38 Posted by jorbear (2517 posts) -

Until they can pull off a 360-420-NoScope-MLG-Fountain-Hook, they legally can't stream DOTA 2.

#39 Posted by Hadoken101 (759 posts) -

I don't understand why people think that playing a game terribly is automatically funny. Something like Magicka is funny when you don't play well as it's just a group of friends blowing each other up with bright spells. Or in Battlefield 3 whenever someone hops into a jet/helicopter and just crashes into a group of people.

In the case of Dota 2 (or any moba for that matter) playing terribly just looks dull. What's fun about watching two dudes run at one another and auto attacking until one dies? Or sitting and watching a grey screen for 20 seconds because they died over and over? It's just not the type of game that lends itself to be entertaining when played poorly.

#40 Posted by rolanthas (242 posts) -

Well, if they can bring in an active Dota savy friend / colleague / dev that'll take the reins, sure. It could even be nice.

#41 Posted by Mr_Skeleton (5143 posts) -

@rolanthas: I heard the guys from Idle Thumbs like Dota, maybe the can bring some of them.

#42 Posted by yoshisaur (2701 posts) -

I think they are tired of getting burned by their community for entering games with no knowledge. You can only ride on their humour for so long before you realize that they have not practiced the game they are playing. I wouldn't be surprised as well to find that they just aren't interested in the game any more or are waiting for the day it releases fully to actually put an opinion on it.

Those are my two cents.

#43 Edited by churrific (478 posts) -

@Christoffer said:

Team Giant Bomb versus Team Gamespot in one of the worst Dota 2 games ever played. I would watch that.

I actually know nothing about Mobas so couldn't tell a first timer from a paid pro.

I randomly found a Gamespot Dota 2 Diaries series where their community manager, a competitive player, teaches a GS editor/first-timer to play. Thought it was interesting and informative since I don't know mobas either.

http://www.gamespot.com/dota-2/videos/dota-2-diaries-part-1-6387462/

#44 Posted by Grand (53 posts) -

OK I have a LOT to say on Valve and the Dota 2 that they've been.... "Running" for lack of a better word, but someone is going to have to explain to me what a TnT is, otherwise I'm probably going to be talking out of my ass.

#45 Edited by Mr_Skeleton (5143 posts) -

@Grand: TNT = Thursday Night Throwdown. Each week the staff plays with the community, you can watch old TNT's here (if you are a premium member you can watch it on Giantbomb).

#46 Posted by RainDog505 (100 posts) -

@scarace360 said:

@RainDog505 said:

@scarace360 said:

None of them know how to play a moba.

Remember how awful Ryan was at Super Monday Night Combat. And that's a MOBA-lite/shooter hybrid.

Well they could get 2 teams of people playing and they could commentate.

Sure. But at this point, why not forgo the hassle of trying to rope the guys into a game they clearly have middling interest in (with the potential exception of Brad) and just host some robust community game nights. Far more realistic of a goal and likely more rewarding.

#47 Posted by scarace360 (4828 posts) -

@RainDog505 said:

@scarace360 said:

@RainDog505 said:

@scarace360 said:

None of them know how to play a moba.

Remember how awful Ryan was at Super Monday Night Combat. And that's a MOBA-lite/shooter hybrid.

Well they could get 2 teams of people playing and they could commentate.

Sure. But at this point, why not forgo the hassle of trying to rope the guys into a game they clearly have middling interest in (with the potential exception of Brad) and just host some robust community game nights. Far more realistic of a goal and likely more rewarding.

Ya that sounds good.

#48 Posted by Grand (53 posts) -

I would be game for this. Honestly the biggest problem everyone faces is the Solo Queue being completely toxic and Valve having a very abusable report system. I just played three games today, I won the first two then lost the final. In the final game. I was axe, we had Rubik Undying Silencer and Alchemist. I ended up muting my team VERY early, because all they wanted to do was bitch at each other. Mid to late game the enemy Nyx was tearing us apart, I mean completely tearing us apart. We had 3 supports and I was trying desperately to build some tanky items (being the only real initiator on our team) while our Rubik refused to buy a gem or wards for the entire game. He was walking around from about the 30 minute mark to the end of the hour long match with AT LEAST 2500 gold at all times. He started buying all of the dust and sentries, but literally refused to buy a gem. I ended up buying our gem and we pushed MOST of the enemy teams base, then died, and then lost. Now I am in LPQ for 14 hours. Why? Well three of them were group queued together. One was Rubik, go figure they all reported me for telling our 3k gold hoarding Rubik to buy the courier *gasp*. I also bought our flying courier.
 
Most people will be avoiding the Solo queue because of this attitude being the norm in Dota2 right now, as Valve is clearly not prepared to manage the Dota community. So in general, we need to get awareness out and find out exactly how many people on GiantBomb actually have Beta keys, since what will draw them here is the chance to have real matches with premade teams and not the crap fest solo queue.

#49 Posted by medacris (649 posts) -

Even if they're not well-versed in MOBA's, there's no way to learn besides actually doing, right?

I really want to get into DoTA 2, but having never played a MOBA myself, I think I need to watch others first, or get into the beta with a tutorial mode, or something.

#50 Posted by TheSouthernDandy (3855 posts) -

If somebody knew how to play it it would probably be cool. I'd watch it regardless to see people lose it on whoever's playing.

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