Wow, people can be a**holes

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#1 Edited by Vitor (2832 posts) -

I get that a lot of people have been playing MOBAs for a long time and losing can be frustrating but some of the attitude I've seen here has been worse than any COD or Halo I've played before, just minus the racism. Anyone else feel that this can be really rough community?

Now, I like to think I sort of know what I'm doing despite being pretty new to this and I do realise when I'm not exactly on top form and will be happy to admit when I f'ed up. But as soon as a team starts losing, they always go out and blame that 'one guy'. Which, for the last two matches I played today was me. It's just depressing when I look at the stats screen at the end of the game to see that I was nowhere near the worst player on the team and most of my deaths were usually due to my support going AWOL or having 3 dudes show up on my lane with prior warning.

Man, I really love the game so far but holy hell do people need to change their attitude. I've been on plenty of teams with a crappy player or someone AFK and you can still pull it out of the bag. At the end of the day, if you're down 46-12, it's probably not just one dude's fault.

#2 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Vitor said:

I get that a lot of people have been playing MOBAs for a long time and loosing can be frustrating but some of the attitude I've seen here has been worse than any COD or Halo I've played before, just minus the racism. Anyone else feel that this can be really rough community?

Now, I like to think I sort of know what I'm doing despite being pretty new to this and I do realise when I'm not exactly on top form and will be happy to admit when I f'ed up. But as soon as a team starts loosing, they always go out and blame that 'one guy'. Which, for the last two matches I played today was me. It's just depressing when I look at the stats screen at the end of the game to see that I was nowhere near the worst player on the team and most of my deaths were usually due to my support going AWOL or having 3 dudes show up on my lane with prior warning.

Man, I really love the game so far but holy hell do people need to change their attitude. I've been on plenty of teams with a crappy player or someone AFK and you can still pull it out of the bag. At the end of the day, if you're down 46-12, it's probably not just one dude's fault.

Same with LOL. HON. And DOTA. Everyone expects you to be a pro right when you start playing. 
#3 Posted by Brendan (8124 posts) -

The best part of MOBA threads on these boards is the asshole that the thread is about showing up who proceeds to say something along the lines of "Well if you were just doing X instead of Y maybe we wouldn't bitch you out all the time? Maybe you just shouldn't play MOBA games?"

#4 Posted by Xolare (1285 posts) -

@Brendan said:

The best part of MOBA threads on these boards is the asshole that the thread is about showing up who proceeds to say something along the lines of "Well if you were just doing X instead of Y maybe we wouldn't bitch you out all the time? Maybe you just shouldn't play MOBA games?"

Well maybe if you were out there having sex with random strangers we wouldn't be having this conversation.

#5 Posted by Jumanji (447 posts) -

Well, flip it around. Why should 4 other people be obliged to spend 30 minutes to an hour of their time teaching you how to play the game?

#6 Edited by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@Brendan said:

The best part of MOBA threads on these boards is the asshole that the thread is about showing up who proceeds to say something along the lines of "Well if you were just doing X instead of Y maybe we wouldn't bitch you out all the time? Maybe you just shouldn't play MOBA games?"

Well I hope not, got enough of that in my last game. Especially 'you should only be allowed to play tetris' which seemed to be their favourite. Bitches, I am FUCKING AWESOME at tetris. But that's beside the point.

I totally got what I was doing wrong and was happy to admit it but, well, they tend to call you out on shit before you get a chance to apologise... The fact is that I'm really not that bad but, then again, after 25 hours of playing the Beta, I would like to think I'd learned something.

I totally get why Ryan and Brad are so f'ing intimidated in joining this thing now. I found the SC2 community to be far more willing to help out a newbie whereas you get nothing but shit here if you accidentally click on the wrong line within 10 seconds of the game starting. I know the middle lane is a solo one but there was NOONE THERE when I clicked. Damn.

@Jumanji said:

Well, flip it around. Why should 4 other people be obliged to spend 30 minutes to an hour of their time teaching you how to play the game?

I'm not a completely newbie at this though. I know what I'm doing. But you still get shit even if you're doing well half the time. But it's got to the point where I won't even ask what certain abbreviations mean since I know I'll get shit for it. I just check them on google after the match. There's a difference between giving someone constructive criticism as to what they're doing wrong and just giving them shit as soon as you get pissed off at the game. And the latter is what everyone seems to do.

They need to section this off into leagues, just like SC2, otherwise it's going to scare away a lot of people early on. That's probably the plan but right now it's a complete dice roll as to who you're partnered up with.

#7 Posted by ajamafalous (12147 posts) -
@Vitor said:

@Brendan said:

The best part of MOBA threads on these boards is the asshole that the thread is about showing up who proceeds to say something along the lines of "Well if you were just doing X instead of Y maybe we wouldn't bitch you out all the time? Maybe you just shouldn't play MOBA games?"

Well I hope not, got enough of that in my last game. Especially 'you should only be allowed to play tetris' which seemed to be their favourite. Bitches, I am FUCKING AWESOME at tetris. But that's beside the point.

I totally got what I was doing wrong and was happy to admit it but, well, they tend to call you out on shit before you get a chance to apologise... The fact is that I'm really not that bad but, then again, after 25 hours of playing the Beta, I would like to think I'd learned something.

I totally get why Ryan and Brad are so f'ing intimidated in joining this thing now. I found the SC2 community to be far more willing to help out a newbie whereas you get nothing but shit here if you accidentally click on the wrong line within 10 seconds of the game starting. I know the middle lane is a solo one but there was NOONE THERE when I clicked. Damn.

The problem is that games last 30 minutes to over an hour (a problem amplified in Dota 2 by not having a concede option, what the FUCK Valve), and if one person on the other team gets a few kills early on someone who's making dumb mistakes, that's probably going to snowball into a win for them, and that's an entire hour wasted for the other four people on the losing team. 
 
I'm by no means saying that you're bad or it's your fault, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here and let you know why the rest of your team isn't happy. You're right in that the MOBA community is awful; doesn't matter which one. DotA, HoN, League, Dota 2; all pretty terrible communities. Once you learn to kinda not give a shit about people on your team talking shit you'll have a lot more fun.
#8 Posted by matthias2437 (985 posts) -

That is every MOBA community in the world.

#9 Posted by Dagbiker (6978 posts) -

this is in the wrong forum, this should be in general.

#10 Posted by Grillbar (1903 posts) -

arent there a-holes in every game. if your not an instant pro your a noob, and if you are a pro your still a noob who hacks so thers no winning.

example. i played bf3 and got kicked from a server by a admin for "hacking" aparently i was hacking cuz i killed him 3 times with a knife and 2 times with the blowtorch in a row. he aparently was the admin and could not understand that if you keep running up to the same point and camping theres a really big chance that you will get killed. one of my friends got kicked cuz he had a 50-1 kill steak with the airplane. he was told if he did not stop using the airplane he would get kicked so he changed to a attack heli and continued and got kicked

#11 Posted by ajamafalous (12147 posts) -
@Vitor said:

They need to section this off into leagues, just like SC2, otherwise it's going to scare away a lot of people early on. That's probably the plan but right now it's a complete dice roll as to who you're partnered up with.

Yeah, that's just a beta thing. They'll eventually have a matchmaking rating/ladder system like HoN and League. Though, that's not to say the idiots will go away; I was watching a friend of mine play HoN in the lower brackets and there was far more trolling there than around the rating I'm at.
#12 Posted by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@ajamafalous: I get that and my last two games were awful (one due to me playing a melee character, something I rarely do and the other because I chose to play a carry and had no support early on so was pretty much f'ed due to AWOL teammates) but usually I expect this sort of smack talk towards the enemy team, not your own.

Regardless though, even if I die a couple of times at the start, it's not an instant GG at all. A level 7 hero is not necessarily going to wipe the floor with a level 6 if played right. I get that it will negatively impact the game for your team to a degree, but it's when everyone lays the blame on one person, when their own K/D is beyond awful which really gets to me.

I do wish there was a quicker game mode though, maybe with sped up levelling/gold, as sometimes I don't have the heart for a 30+ minute game.

#13 Posted by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@Dagbiker said:

this is in the wrong forum, this should be in general.

But I'm talking about the DOTA 2 community specifically, regardless of people mentioning HON and LOL.

#14 Posted by Jumanji (447 posts) -

@Dagbiker: why on earth should it be in general? He's talking about his experiences in DOTA2.

#15 Edited by Milkman (17311 posts) -

All MOBA communities are like that.

#16 Posted by Jumanji (447 posts) -

@Vitor said:

@ajamafalous: I get that and my last two games were awful (one due to me playing a melee character, something I rarely do and the other because I chose to play a carry and had no support early on so was pretty much f'ed due to AWOL teammates) but usually I expect this sort of smack talk towards the enemy team, not your own.

Regardless though, even if I die a couple of times at the start, it's not an instant GG at all. A level 7 hero is not necessarily going to wipe the floor with a level 6 if played right. I get that it will negatively impact the game for your team to a degree, but it's when everyone lays the blame on one person, when their own K/D is beyond awful which really gets to me.

I do wish there was a quicker game mode though, maybe with sped up levelling/gold, as sometimes I don't have the heart for a 30+ minute game.

When I feed/fuck up somehow and start getting shit on by my team, I usually "/ignore all" to make sure I don't go on tilt.

#17 Edited by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@Jumanji said:

@Vitor said:

@ajamafalous: I get that and my last two games were awful (one due to me playing a melee character, something I rarely do and the other because I chose to play a carry and had no support early on so was pretty much f'ed due to AWOL teammates) but usually I expect this sort of smack talk towards the enemy team, not your own.

Regardless though, even if I die a couple of times at the start, it's not an instant GG at all. A level 7 hero is not necessarily going to wipe the floor with a level 6 if played right. I get that it will negatively impact the game for your team to a degree, but it's when everyone lays the blame on one person, when their own K/D is beyond awful which really gets to me.

I do wish there was a quicker game mode though, maybe with sped up levelling/gold, as sometimes I don't have the heart for a 30+ minute game.

When I feed/fuck up somehow and start getting shit on by my team, I usually "/ignore all" to make sure I don't go on tilt.

Did not know you could do that. Will bear that in mind although usually I like to give me teammates a chance to not destroy my faith in humanity before I silence them for the rest of the match. That clearly has not been working out well for me here I have to admit...

#18 Posted by Discoman (170 posts) -

My main reason for not being too interested in Dota 2 is the community. I played Warcraft 3's Battle.net for quite sometime and I watched it evolve as Dota's community grew. First it was humble, but overtime people really started to take it a little too seriously.

They are intuitive though, they made both hosting bots and ban lists, both of which have arguably ruined Warcraft 3's battle.net and its accessibility. Essentially, you'd get banlisted if you left early or someone just didn't like you. People shared banlists (I think there was one large one), and you could find yourself banned from several games for one little offense. If you wanted to appeal the charge, you had to go on a forum outside of Battle.net and ask. You'd also get kicked for high ping, and you can't download the map from the host of the game. If you even try downloading the map you'll get auto-kicked before your computer even loads the gameroom.

I've already said much and we've not even got into the game itself! If you're a novice enjoy getting berated for the next thirty minutes to an hour. The first time you die you'll get the label of "noob feeder". If you don't give your gold to XXSSJfamxXX who's a self acclaimed pro you'll get to hear him talk about how he lost due to a "noob team".

#19 Posted by mosespippy (4437 posts) -

@Vitor said:

I get that a lot of people have been playing MOBAs for a long time and loosing can be frustrating but some of the attitude I've seen here has been worse than any COD or Halo I've played before, just minus the racism. Anyone else feel that this can be really rough community?

Now, I like to think I sort of know what I'm doing despite being pretty new to this and I do realise when I'm not exactly on top form and will be happy to admit when I f'ed up. But as soon as a team starts loosing, they always go out and blame that 'one guy'. Which, for the last two matches I played today was me. It's just depressing when I look at the stats screen at the end of the game to see that I was nowhere near the worst player on the team and most of my deaths were usually due to my support going AWOL or having 3 dudes show up on my lane with prior warning.

Man, I really love the game so far but holy hell do people need to change their attitude. I've been on plenty of teams with a crappy player or someone AFK and you can still pull it out of the bag. At the end of the day, if you're down 46-12, it's probably not just one dude's fault.

These games are highly technical so you may know the theory as to what you should be doing but you don't know the minutia and the balance of all the actions. These little things make all the difference. Are you retreating when you should be or are you playing it like a Halo/COD? I've never played a MOBA but it sounds like your support knew when to retreat so that they didn't feed.

#20 Posted by jakob187 (21757 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Vitor said:

I get that a lot of people have been playing MOBAs for a long time and loosing can be frustrating but some of the attitude I've seen here has been worse than any COD or Halo I've played before, just minus the racism. Anyone else feel that this can be really rough community?

Now, I like to think I sort of know what I'm doing despite being pretty new to this and I do realise when I'm not exactly on top form and will be happy to admit when I f'ed up. But as soon as a team starts loosing, they always go out and blame that 'one guy'. Which, for the last two matches I played today was me. It's just depressing when I look at the stats screen at the end of the game to see that I was nowhere near the worst player on the team and most of my deaths were usually due to my support going AWOL or having 3 dudes show up on my lane with prior warning.

Man, I really love the game so far but holy hell do people need to change their attitude. I've been on plenty of teams with a crappy player or someone AFK and you can still pull it out of the bag. At the end of the day, if you're down 46-12, it's probably not just one dude's fault.

Same with LOL. HON. And DOTA. Everyone expects you to be a pro right when you start playing.

Everyone doesn't expect you to be a pro. If people are raging in normal games, then those people need to just learn to chill the fuck out. It's a normal game. It's not costing anyone ELO or ladder ranking.

It's when inexperienced people jump into ranked matches that I have a problem. It's called RANKED for a reason, and when you say the words "what is CS" in a ranked match, that means you should probably play more normals and do more research. The ELO Hell in LoL is fucking ridiculous, as it is filled with either idiots or trolls 85% of the time. I know that I am not a 1000 ELO player, as I've beaten teams that are infinitely better than the bullshit I find in this ELO. However, a whole team of derps dragging you down because they think they are ready...

I mean, if I can go to your summoner page and see that your KDA on every champ you play in ranked is negative...and I see nothing on your match history other than getting pubstomped on the regular, then seriously...SERIOUSLY...just stop playing ranked and get into normal matches.

I really wish that Riot would implement something into the system that says "you cannot play ranked matches until you've gotten 200 wins in normals". That would ensure that noobies who just hit SL30 are jumping into ranked and getting their teams stomped.

As for DotA, that community is way harder on players than LoL is. Half of the people in LoL yell and bitch because they just troll. Afterwards, I've had plenty of convos with those guys where we said "yeah, shit sucks, oh well, gg and let's move on".

@Jumanji said:

Well, flip it around. Why should 4 other people be obliged to spend 30 minutes to an hour of their time teaching you how to play the game?

Flip it around - if the communities took more time to help players learn the game rather than constantly bitching, would these problems still exist?

#21 Posted by ajamafalous (12147 posts) -
@Vitor said:

Regardless though, even if I die a couple of times at the start, it's not an instant GG at all. A level 7 hero is not necessarily going to wipe the floor with a level 6 if played right. I get that it will negatively impact the game for your team to a degree, but it's when everyone lays the blame on one person, when their own K/D is beyond awful which really gets to me.

The problem is not level but gold. If the enemy carry gets a few kills before level 7, the gold is just going to snowball from there as long as he's competent enough to know how to gank well. An enemy carry with his first full item is bad news to a team full of people that only have maybe boots and 1/3 of their first item.
#22 Edited by EchoEcho (837 posts) -

This is precisely why I refuse to play any sort of small-team co-op game with strangers. It's why I don't raid in MMOs. And it's not only because I don't want to put up with being yelled at by people who take their games incredibly seriously -- believe me, that is a big reason -- but because I also don't like the risk that I'll end up being the weakest link and ruining everyone else's experience. Whether it's because I'm not knowledgeable enough to perform at the same level as the other players, or because my fingers fumble on the keyboard/controller and something totally accidental happens by no real fault of my own.

I just don't want to put up with that sort of extra stress during what should be a fun and relaxing time. Sure, not everyone on the internet is an asshole. Some are understanding, willing to teach and give constructive criticism without making you feel like an idiot, even if it's at the cost of their own free time -- but let's be realistic, here: that is far from the norm.

It's the same reason I don't even play as much Halo, Battlefield, etc. as I used to, even though I can play those without a headset and with everyone muted. If I'm not playing with people I know, people who are typically of a similar skill level as me, and from whom the worst I have to worry about is a good-natured ribbing when I fuck up, then it's just not as fun. I don't like feeling that my contribution might make or break someone else's experience when all I want to do is relax and have fun.

#23 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@jakob187 said:

@The_Laughing_Man said:

@Vitor said:

I get that a lot of people have been playing MOBAs for a long time and loosing can be frustrating but some of the attitude I've seen here has been worse than any COD or Halo I've played before, just minus the racism. Anyone else feel that this can be really rough community?

Now, I like to think I sort of know what I'm doing despite being pretty new to this and I do realise when I'm not exactly on top form and will be happy to admit when I f'ed up. But as soon as a team starts loosing, they always go out and blame that 'one guy'. Which, for the last two matches I played today was me. It's just depressing when I look at the stats screen at the end of the game to see that I was nowhere near the worst player on the team and most of my deaths were usually due to my support going AWOL or having 3 dudes show up on my lane with prior warning.

Man, I really love the game so far but holy hell do people need to change their attitude. I've been on plenty of teams with a crappy player or someone AFK and you can still pull it out of the bag. At the end of the day, if you're down 46-12, it's probably not just one dude's fault.

Same with LOL. HON. And DOTA. Everyone expects you to be a pro right when you start playing.

Everyone doesn't expect you to be a pro. If people are raging in normal games, then those people need to just learn to chill the fuck out. It's a normal game. It's not costing anyone ELO or ladder ranking.

It's when inexperienced people jump into ranked matches that I have a problem. It's called RANKED for a reason, and when you say the words "what is CS" in a ranked match, that means you should probably play more normals and do more research. The ELO Hell in LoL is fucking ridiculous, as it is filled with either idiots or trolls 85% of the time. I know that I am not a 1000 ELO player, as I've beaten teams that are infinitely better than the bullshit I find in this ELO. However, a whole team of derps dragging you down because they think they are ready...

I mean, if I can go to your summoner page and see that your KDA on every champ you play in ranked is negative...and I see nothing on your match history other than getting pubstomped on the regular, then seriously...SERIOUSLY...just stop playing ranked and get into normal matches.

I really wish that Riot would implement something into the system that says "you cannot play ranked matches until you've gotten 200 wins in normals". That would ensure that noobies who just hit SL30 are jumping into ranked and getting their teams stomped.

As for DotA, that community is way harder on players than LoL is. Half of the people in LoL yell and bitch because they just troll. Afterwards, I've had plenty of convos with those guys where we said "yeah, shit sucks, oh well, gg and let's move on".

@Jumanji said:

Well, flip it around. Why should 4 other people be obliged to spend 30 minutes to an hour of their time teaching you how to play the game?

Flip it around - if the communities took more time to help players learn the game rather than constantly bitching, would these problems still exist?

I got bitched out during a "easy" boy match. I was cracking up cause they where dieing to easy bots. 
#24 Posted by Irvandus (2879 posts) -

Every DOTA game has a community like that.

#25 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4858 posts) -

Welcome to the MOBA community. Everyone sucks here.

#26 Posted by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@mosespippy said:

@Vitor said:

I get that a lot of people have been playing MOBAs for a long time and loosing can be frustrating but some of the attitude I've seen here has been worse than any COD or Halo I've played before, just minus the racism. Anyone else feel that this can be really rough community?

Now, I like to think I sort of know what I'm doing despite being pretty new to this and I do realise when I'm not exactly on top form and will be happy to admit when I f'ed up. But as soon as a team starts loosing, they always go out and blame that 'one guy'. Which, for the last two matches I played today was me. It's just depressing when I look at the stats screen at the end of the game to see that I was nowhere near the worst player on the team and most of my deaths were usually due to my support going AWOL or having 3 dudes show up on my lane with prior warning.

Man, I really love the game so far but holy hell do people need to change their attitude. I've been on plenty of teams with a crappy player or someone AFK and you can still pull it out of the bag. At the end of the day, if you're down 46-12, it's probably not just one dude's fault.

These games are highly technical so you may know the theory as to what you should be doing but you don't know the minutia and the balance of all the actions. These little things make all the difference. Are you retreating when you should be or are you playing it like a Halo/COD? I've never played a MOBA but it sounds like your support knew when to retreat so that they didn't feed.

This was a case of my support never even being there when I stunned an enemy to move in for the kill or just to make sure I wasn't overwhelmed. I play a character who's awful at the start until about 5/10 minutes in and, in that time, if I don't have anyone to back me up, I can't get the kills necessary to level up. This isn't a case of my needs being too specific either, I literally just needed someone to stand near me so I don't get targeted by all the enemy's attacks. My character is a rogue so he's essentially all about running away and keeping distance in order to avoid a 1v1 fight.

It's when people tell me I suck and am such a 'n00b' while suggesting that I should be in the mid lane by myself or tanking with this character that pisses me off. If they were any decent at the game, they'd also know exactly how weak I was in the early game.

#27 Posted by ArbitraryWater (12106 posts) -

Yep. People suck all the way when it comes to MOBAs. I thankfully have reached something resembling competence in League of Legends, and therefore any or all complaints are directed at worse players and not me. That's not to say that people still aren't the absolute worst, but at least they aren't the absolute worst. To me.

#28 Posted by TheDudeOfGaming (6078 posts) -

I stopped playing DOTA when i realized i was becoming ...one of them. I may play a game here and there, the problem with MOBA games is that they are too team focused. You shouldn't play them if you're too competitive. But again, MOBA type games are really competitive, so much that you stop playing for fun, and you start playing so you can win.

#29 Posted by Jugglerman (57 posts) -

Not to sound like an annoying old veteran, but when I played the original Dota before there was still this mentality.

I think it stems from a couple of thing (which I think has probably already been mentioned in the thread):

  1. Once either side begins to have an advantage (and assuming the players have a decent level of experience), it is very hard to come back from behind.
  2. In small co-op games like this (same for Left 4 Dead, Dungeon Defenders, or Counter-Strike), the game relies on having good teamwork, or one player just being an absolute boss.
  3. The game has (for a long time) been played ultra-competitively. I don't know why it's been that way, but just something like Counter-Strike, players are extremely passionate about winning. It helps that a typical game last an average of about 30-60 minutes, so if you start losing early it can be a painful journey. I agree, having a concede button would be a great idea. If you can talk to your team, sometimes you agree to GG early or whatever.
  4. The game is COMPLEX! :Because the original Dota had nearly ~100 heroes (and in Dota 2 they are planning to get up to that number as well), you needed to know each heroes's 5 abilities (and some heroes had more), so teaching someone over 500 abilities isn't going to happen in one game.

My suggestion is to try and play with people you know, if possible. I virtually never played Dota 1, because I knew that most of the people who played online were assholes. Good luck!

#30 Posted by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

@Vitor said:

Regardless though, even if I die a couple of times at the start, it's not an instant GG at all. A level 7 hero is not necessarily going to wipe the floor with a level 6 if played right. I get that it will negatively impact the game for your team to a degree, but it's when everyone lays the blame on one person, when their own K/D is beyond awful which really gets to me.

The problem is not level but gold. If the enemy carry gets a few kills before level 7, the gold is just going to snowball from there as long as he's competent enough to know how to gank well. An enemy carry with his first full item is bad news to a team full of people that only have maybe boots and 1/3 of their first item.

That's true. I'm still not sure how gold is even distributed on death (if it's a set amount of percentage) but man, the penalty sure seems ridiculously high for the dead Hero. I did die a couple of times early on in both games but I still don't understand why my deaths were singled out when the other players were out as often, if not more so, than I was. Well, probably since I had a few consecutive ones if I had to hazard a guess.

#31 Posted by MikkaQ (10344 posts) -

@ajamafalous said:

The problem is that games last 30 minutes to over an hour (a problem amplified in Dota 2 by not having a concede option, what the FUCK Valve), and if one person on the other team gets a few kills early on someone who's making dumb mistakes, that's probably going to snowball into a win for them, and that's an entire hour wasted for the other four people on the losing team. I'm by no means saying that you're bad or it's your fault, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here and let you know why the rest of your team isn't happy. You're right in that the MOBA community is awful; doesn't matter which one. DotA, HoN, League, Dota 2; all pretty terrible communities. Once you learn to kinda not give a shit about people on your team talking shit you'll have a lot more fun.

I think the problem with this logic is that it assumes you can only have fun by winning. Some people enjoy the game itself, regardless of the outcome.

And this is why I'll never play a MOBA/DOTA.

#32 Posted by ajamafalous (12147 posts) -
@MikkaQ said:

@ajamafalous said:

The problem is that games last 30 minutes to over an hour (a problem amplified in Dota 2 by not having a concede option, what the FUCK Valve), and if one person on the other team gets a few kills early on someone who's making dumb mistakes, that's probably going to snowball into a win for them, and that's an entire hour wasted for the other four people on the losing team. I'm by no means saying that you're bad or it's your fault, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here and let you know why the rest of your team isn't happy. You're right in that the MOBA community is awful; doesn't matter which one. DotA, HoN, League, Dota 2; all pretty terrible communities. Once you learn to kinda not give a shit about people on your team talking shit you'll have a lot more fun.

I think the problem with this logic is that it assumes you can only have fun by winning. Some people enjoy the game itself, regardless of the outcome.

And this is why I'll never play a MOBA/DOTA.

The problem is that the game becomes decidedly unfun if the other team is rolling you over every fight, losing one or two guys while wiping your entire team. 
  

But you're right, and indeed I am one of those people that just cares about having fun more than winning or losing. The problem is that the two are tied so closely together in MOBAs.
#33 Posted by VisariLoyalist (3000 posts) -

welcome to moba

#34 Posted by Vexxan (4612 posts) -

All "MOBAs" bring out the worst in people. 
 
Also MOBA is a dumb term.

#35 Posted by RsistncE (4496 posts) -

@Jumanji said:

Well, flip it around. Why should 4 other people be obliged to spend 30 minutes to an hour of their time teaching you how to play the game?

I think those 4 people should learn to just shut the fuck up and deal with the fact that it's a video game that anyone has the right to play once they've purchased it. They have no say really.

#36 Posted by Kidavenger (3628 posts) -

I was under the impression that they were only letting experienced players into the beta from the questionnaire they made me fill out to apply. In any case, most of the people in the beta are probably pretty hardcore, and if you don't know what you are doing their poor reaction to you is going to be amplified by their expectations for mostly good players in the beta.

#37 Posted by ajamafalous (12147 posts) -
@Kidavenger said:

I was under the impression that they were only letting experienced players into the beta from the questionnaire they made me fill out to apply. In any case, most of the people in the beta are probably pretty hardcore, and if you don't know what you are doing their poor reaction to you is going to be amplified by their expectations for mostly good players in the beta.

I assumed they cast a pretty wide net, just to test out their how well their matchmaking can match people of similar skill levels, whether they've got good tutorial/help options in the game or if they need tweaking (there are currently none of any kind, by the way), etc. Though there does seem to be some logical fallacy from most people in the beta that everyone in the beta is a superpro that's been playing DotA for 8 years.
#38 Posted by Management (593 posts) -

@Vitor said:

I get that a lot of people have been playing MOBAs for a long time and loosing can be frustrating but some of the attitude I've seen here has been worse than any COD or Halo I've played before, just minus the racism. Anyone else feel that this can be really rough community?

Now, I like to think I sort of know what I'm doing despite being pretty new to this and I do realise when I'm not exactly on top form and will be happy to admit when I f'ed up. But as soon as a team starts loosing, they always go out and blame that 'one guy'. Which, for the last two matches I played today was me. It's just depressing when I look at the stats screen at the end of the game to see that I was nowhere near the worst player on the team and most of my deaths were usually due to my support going AWOL or having 3 dudes show up on my lane with prior warning.

Man, I really love the game so far but holy hell do people need to change their attitude. I've been on plenty of teams with a crappy player or someone AFK and you can still pull it out of the bag. At the end of the day, if you're down 46-12, it's probably not just one dude's fault.

The thing is that you have to be aware of the situation. If your support is doing something else, like warding the rune spots or going back for some reason, you have to know that and care a bit more than you would have otherwise. Also if middle or the other lane call missing you have to assume that they are going for you unless your team say that they are not. this means that you should at least go to your tower unless you have an escape option, like a teleport scroll or ability. If it's later into the game and you are carry you can go farm woods or try to set up a gank on the other team.

What I'm trying to say is that it was your fault when you died those times, if your teammates did not call missing on the other hand it would have been their fault. The people on you team should not bitch at you like it is the end of the world, but hey, it's the internet right? You should on the other hand know that you fucked up for your team and if you feed their hard carry a few times that you lost the game and ruined about 30-90 minutes of your teammates time.

#39 Edited by Mr_Skeleton (5154 posts) -

I never shouted or cursed anyone but to be honest I can understand why people get very upset. It's not a reason to be an ass but when someone keeps feeding the other team in the early game he is pretty much dooming your team, and if you are not an ass you won't quit which means you have to play for another 25 minutes with no real hope of winning.

Anyway if you want to play add me, my name is MrSkeleton.

Also there is a GB Dota 2 group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/GBDota2

#40 Posted by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@Management said:

@Vitor said:

I get that a lot of people have been playing MOBAs for a long time and loosing can be frustrating but some of the attitude I've seen here has been worse than any COD or Halo I've played before, just minus the racism. Anyone else feel that this can be really rough community?

Now, I like to think I sort of know what I'm doing despite being pretty new to this and I do realise when I'm not exactly on top form and will be happy to admit when I f'ed up. But as soon as a team starts loosing, they always go out and blame that 'one guy'. Which, for the last two matches I played today was me. It's just depressing when I look at the stats screen at the end of the game to see that I was nowhere near the worst player on the team and most of my deaths were usually due to my support going AWOL or having 3 dudes show up on my lane with prior warning.

Man, I really love the game so far but holy hell do people need to change their attitude. I've been on plenty of teams with a crappy player or someone AFK and you can still pull it out of the bag. At the end of the day, if you're down 46-12, it's probably not just one dude's fault.

The thing is that you have to be aware of the situation. If your support is doing something else, like warding the rune spots or going back for some reason, you have to know that and care a bit more than you would have otherwise. Also if middle or the other lane call missing you have to assume that they are going for you unless your team say that they are not. this means that you should at least go to your tower unless you have an escape option, like a teleport scroll or ability. If it's later into the game and you are carry you can go farm woods or try to set up a gank on the other team.

What I'm trying to say is that it was your fault when you died those times, if your teammates did not call missing on the other hand it would have been their fault. The people on you team should not bitch at you like it is the end of the world, but hey, it's the internet right? You should on the other hand know that you fucked up for your team and if you feed their hard carry a few times that you lost the game and ruined about 30-90 minutes of your teammates time.

Actually, my support was literally doing none of those things and was just hiding in the wooded area in the top line. Standing there. Occasionally moving and hitting with a base attack. No stuns. No spells. Nothing. Just moving backwards and forwards like an indecisive rocking chair. Also, noone called missing in either of those two games. Not that it mattered as my support would frequently jump between lanes and leave me in 2v1 frequently (although not with their carry). And yet I got all the shit for my deaths and 'feeding' the enemy heroes. But if I went out of position, I'd get yelled at for not knowing how to play. And then all my teammates in both matches had a 0/9 K/D at the very least. And somehow I was at fault.

Having said all that, it seems like a lot of people's justification for this sort of thing is the game time. If that's the case, I really hope Valve has a 'quick' mode with accelerated levelling and gold so people chill the fuck out. To be honest, I frequently want to play a match of DOTA between studies but it can be hard to justify a full hour's worth of time just to do that.

#41 Posted by Management (593 posts) -

@Vitor: Well if that was the case, fuck them. You should be the one complaining.

#42 Posted by jakob187 (21757 posts) -

@The_Laughing_Man said:

I got bitched out during a "easy" boy match. I was cracking up cause they where dieing to easy bots.

...then you should opening mock them with insults like "fuckwad", "dickstain", and my personal favorite... "dirty fucking cunt rag".

#43 Posted by EdIsCool (1122 posts) -

@Jumanji: Because if they don't put up with it, there will be no flow of new players and the game will suffer a severe natural decrease. Simple really.

#44 Edited by BabyChooChoo (4802 posts) -

@Jumanji said:

Well, flip it around. Why should 4 other people be obliged to spend 30 minutes to an hour of their time teaching you how to play the game?

The problem is they don't even try to teach. They don't do anything that would even resemble trying to help another player learn the game. All 'these players' do is act like complete dicks which doesn't help anyone. If someone is doing a bad job, let them know what they're doing wrong and how to fix it. You don't have to become their fucking private tutor, but you don't have to be an asshole either.

By the grace of some mystical being, I happened to play my first few DOTA2 matches (...or rather first few MOBA matches ever) with some decent people who were quick to point out my mistakes, but also quick to offer solutions. They weren't coaching me the entire match...hell, they barely talked to me except for 1 or 2 times...but they weren't being these complete fuckholes I've been seeing lately.

I just don't understand what's so hard about trying to be a decent person online (or just in general for that matter). Everyone is there to just have some fun and when someone starts bitching, that means they aren't having fun and neither is the person they're bitching at. Hell, it might even annoy the rest of the team. Everyone loses.

I know this sounds carebear-ish as fuck, but seriously, think about it: if everyone was just a bit nicer to everyone else, imagine how much better the world would be. Just think about it. It would be fucking amazing.

#45 Posted by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@BabyChooChoo said:

@Jumanji said:

Well, flip it around. Why should 4 other people be obliged to spend 30 minutes to an hour of their time teaching you how to play the game?

The problem is they don't even try to teach. They don't do anything that would even resemble trying to help another player learn the game. All 'these players' do is act like complete dicks which doesn't help anyone. If someone is doing a bad job, let them know what they're doing wrong and how to fix it. You don't have to become their fucking private tutor, but you don't have to be an asshole either.

By the grace of some mystical being, I happened to play my first few DOTA2 matches (...or rather first few MOBA matches ever) with some decent people who were quick to point out my mistakes, but also quick to offer solutions. They weren't coaching me the entire match...hell, they barely talked to me except for 1 or 2 times...but they weren't being these complete fuckholes I've been seeing lately.

I just don't understand what's so hard about trying to be a decent person online (or just in general for that matter). Everyone is there to just have some fun and when someone starts bitching, that means they aren't having fun and neither is the person they're bitching at. Hell, it might even annoy the rest of the team. Everyone loses.

I know this sounds carebear-ish as fuck, but seriously, think about it: if everyone was just a bit nicer to everyone else, imagine how much better the world would be. Just think about it. It would be fucking amazing.

Last game I had started with a guy telling me not to do something. I had no idea what he meant so I asked. I then took his advice and asked again what else it was I could do to improve. He wasn't overly polite but neither was he offensively curt - he just gave me some tips, and the closest he came to an insult was in asking me if I was playing for the first time when I misused an ability (I assumed I had to target an enemy with it, turns out it was just an AOE spell near my Hero).

That was infinitely better than the BS I had to put up with earlier and only took a few seconds out of this guy's time but, regardless, was greatly appreciated.

#46 Posted by cid798 (249 posts) -

I think if you're terrible at the game you'll know it. People will bitch about every little thing even purchase order of items (LOL). If you know what you're doing then just play the game, we all know they don't say much when at the end of the match you did well.

#47 Posted by Vitor (2832 posts) -

@cid798 said:

I think if you're terrible at the game you'll know it. People will bitch about every little thing even purchase order of items (LOL). If you know what you're doing then just play the game, we all know they don't say much when at the end of the match you did well.

Funnily enough, that's when one guy starting calling me out. It was 'coes I usually buy some boots for increased move speed and then 3 tangos for basic health regen in the early game. Apparently he could tell it was a 'gg' just from that.... He had an 0/8 KD by the end of that game...

#48 Edited by Jumanji (447 posts) -

@BabyChooChoo said:

@Jumanji said:

Well, flip it around. Why should 4 other people be obliged to spend 30 minutes to an hour of their time teaching you how to play the game?

The problem is they don't even try to teach. They don't do anything that would even resemble trying to help another player learn the game. All 'these players' do is act like complete dicks which doesn't help anyone. If someone is doing a bad job, let them know what they're doing wrong and how to fix it. You don't have to become their fucking private tutor, but you don't have to be an asshole either.

By the grace of some mystical being, I happened to play my first few DOTA2 matches (...or rather first few MOBA matches ever) with some decent people who were quick to point out my mistakes, but also quick to offer solutions. They weren't coaching me the entire match...hell, they barely talked to me except for 1 or 2 times...but they weren't being these complete fuckholes I've been seeing lately.

I just don't understand what's so hard about trying to be a decent person online (or just in general for that matter). Everyone is there to just have some fun and when someone starts bitching, that means they aren't having fun and neither is the person they're bitching at. Hell, it might even annoy the rest of the team. Everyone loses.

I know this sounds carebear-ish as fuck, but seriously, think about it: if everyone was just a bit nicer to everyone else, imagine how much better the world would be. Just think about it. It would be fucking amazing.

Well, again, I think this boils down to a question of entitlement. Why do the 4 players on your team owe you a half hour of scrim time? Why aren't they entitled to make the assumption that -you- have put in the same effort as they have to learn the rudimentary game systems in bot matches or whatever, such that you don't go 0/8 in the first 20 minutes?

#49 Posted by Marz (5671 posts) -

funny thing is, most of these dudes who are assholes were probably the same way when they started out and got chewed out by more experienced players, so it sets in motion a never ending cycle of assholeness.

#50 Posted by JCTango (1366 posts) -

@Marz said:

funny thing is, most of these dudes who are assholes were probably the same way when they started out and got chewed out by more experienced players, so it sets in motion a never ending cycle of assholeness.

Yep. It takes someone with half a brain, as well as a heart, to realize how stupid this sort of behaviour actually is... and break this cycle. This sort of behaviour is also seen in other games too, like the left 4 dead series.

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