Other than Mass Effect no Bioware game has succed in capturing my imagination, Dragon Age looks super generic, Kotor was allright but the characters models were just plain uggly (not talking in a technicall standpoint).. 
 
perhaps they should work more with their art deparment, other than mass effect bioware stuff looks way nerdy generic-cliche. 

I suspect a smaller company could make a game like Origins. Like, Reality Pump maybe. CD Projeckt Red. But yeah, I just don't see it coming from Bioware. Much in the same way I don't expect Square Enix to suddenly realize what an interesting idea they had with FF12. SE and Bioware, more the same by the day.

" I'm glad I'm not the first person to say that I'm skeptical of the legitimacy of the post, but I am a little sad it took until the second page to find someone who finally said it.  Does anyone really think a developer with a shred of respect is really just gonna lay it all down on the internet and potentially throw their team under the bus?   "

" @phantomzxro said:

Granted i think on a technical level look wise it on par with all the games listed (maybe red dead may have the edge) but under the hood ME and DA are doing a lot more then what other games are doing. "

Really? I don't see it. To be honest, I can't even really figure out what you think is going on "under the hood" in ME/DA that's all that complex. "

" I'm glad I'm not the first person to say that I'm skeptical of the legitimacy of the post, but I am a little sad it took until the second page to find someone who finally said it.  Does anyone really think a developer with a shred of respect is really just gonna lay it all down on the internet and potentially throw their team under the bus?   "

Well I don't know if this guy is legit or not, but if he is considering Bioware stole someone's game just for talking some shit on a forum I'd say he needs to start looking for a job.

" @Brendan said:

" I'm glad I'm not the first person to say that I'm skeptical of the legitimacy of the post, but I am a little sad it took until the second page to find someone who finally said it.  Does anyone really think a developer with a shred of respect is really just gonna lay it all down on the internet and potentially throw their team under the bus?   "

Well it's not his team. He didn't work in either DA games but really he didn't throw anyone under the bus. It's the first honest reply we've got from them. Rather than being hyper aggressive or acting like "NO ITZ U THATS BAD THIS GAME IS AWSUM" on their forums, which I'm guessing they were told to do, this guy says the production was short, but done well for the time that was given, and explained the reasons why. He never said DA2 was bad or slammed it. "

I'm not surprised. The game just feels smaller than DAO in every way and there's certainly the feeling that certain parts are missing (though that might actually be because of the frame narative). With that said, I still think it's a 9/10 (or 4/5) game.

" @Hailinel said:

" @Dany said:

" I still find it shocking that these Bioware games do not sell. Hopefully all of hte good will from ME2 will lead to good sales for ME3.  Considering that the production was only a year is crazy and it was able to fit in so much stuff is absurd. "

How can two million in sales be considered not selling well? "

Yeah i don't think it is bad at all, anything that sells a million is a hit. The problem is after that they expect to sell more then more and it goes on like that. Also it is something i'm sure they look like when they see every other major game AAA game selling more. "

I would say that i give credit to bioware in their work because they are one of the few to truly build around your game continueing after the game into the next with tranfering save games over which i'm sure is not easy too do. "

@ryanwho said:

""Quantity over quality? People like you are what EA and Activision count on. "

 
I didn't say quantity over quality, I just think both have value.  Games can take 6 to 8 years and still come out mediocre.  I think Dragon Age 2 is a good game, so I wouldn't have wanted to wait months or even years longer for a game that only might be better.

" Oh boy, I hope Dragon Age becomes an annualized series.  That'd be great. "

"

@ryanwho said:

""Quantity over quality? People like you are what EA and Activision count on. "

 
I didn't say quantity over quality, I just think both have value.  Games can take 6 to 8 years and still come out mediocre.  I think Dragon Age 2 is a good game, so I wouldn't have wanted to wait months or even years longer for a game that only might be better.

"

You know, I really don't understand why it is suddenly "cool" to shit on Bioware. Some people are even beginning to say shit like, "ME2 was a mediocre game." Really? Fucking really? The game that got GOTY from most outlets last year and was generally agreed upon by the internet userbase as a whole? But one game that is substandard in your eyes and suddenly everything that Bioware has done in the last 5 years is dog shit. Oh come the fuck on. It's getting hard to breath in here with all the bullshit (man I'm saying shit alot!). They are even beginning to say stuff like "Alpha Protocol was an amazing game!" over on the Something Awful forums. Um. What? Did we play the same game? Because I got just about all the achievements in that train wreck of a game and it is pretty god damn bad.
 
I *liked* DA2. I thought it was a very serviceable game. In retrospect, I'm content with it, if I would have had to wait another 3-4 years for the full "DA:Oized" version of it. I mean, honestly, you're hearing shit like "The game looks like complete ass." This coming from the same people who hold "The Witcher" on a  pedestal (incedently, it was pretty god damn bad, boring combat from a broken game engine and a nonsensical storyline).

" I'm not surprised. The game just feels smaller than DAO in every way and there's certainly the feeling that certain parts are missing (though that might actually be because of the frame narative). With that said, I still think it's a 9/10 (or 4/5) game. "

8 months, huh? I guess I can't bitch about the reused dungeon thing anymore.

" It could have benefited from recycling some stuff from DA:O. "

. If you only have time for one, make a good game that looks like the last game. 

" You know, I really don't understand why it is suddenly "cool" to shit on Bioware. Some people are even beginning to say shit like, "ME2 was a mediocre game." Really? Fucking really? The game that got GOTY from most outlets last year and was generally agreed upon by the internet userbase as a whole? But one game that is substandard in your eyes and suddenly everything that Bioware has done in the last 5 years is dog shit. Oh come the fuck on. It's getting hard to breath in here with all the bullshit (man I'm saying shit alot!). They are even beginning to say stuff like "Alpha Protocol was an amazing game!" over on the Something Awful forums. Um. What? Did we play the same game? Because I got just about all the achievements in that train wreck of a game and it is pretty god damn bad.
 
I *liked* DA2. I thought it was a very serviceable game. In retrospect, I'm content with it, if I would have had to wait another 3-4 years for the full "DA:Oized" version of it. I mean, honestly, you're hearing shit like "The game looks like complete ass." This coming from the same people who hold "The Witcher" on a  pedestal (incedently, it was pretty god damn bad, boring combat from a broken game engine and a nonsensical storyline). "

" @Enigma777 said:

" I'm not surprised. The game just feels smaller than DAO in every way and there's certainly the feeling that certain parts are missing (though that might actually be because of the frame narative). With that said, I still think it's a 9/10 (or 4/5) game. "

Just having a new map for every dungeon would have made the game seem about 500% bigger. But when every cave leads to the same disheveled mine, you start feeling like you're in some kind of sadistic Truman show or rogue Matrix program. "

Some real choice gems from those forums.
 
" Alpha Protocol, unlike Mass Effect 2, is more of a RPG than a shooter, it helps to look at it that way instead of excepting the game to be something that it isn't! e: It's like buying DA:O and getting pissed that it doesn't have Dynasty Warriors combat."
 
"Fable 2 was better than Mass Effect 2. "

" @ryanwho said:

" @Enigma777 said:

" I'm not surprised. The game just feels smaller than DAO in every way and there's certainly the feeling that certain parts are missing (though that might actually be because of the frame narative). With that said, I still think it's a 9/10 (or 4/5) game. "

Just having a new map for every dungeon would have made the game seem about 500% bigger. But when every cave leads to the same disheveled mine, you start feeling like you're in some kind of sadistic Truman show or rogue Matrix program. "

I absolutely agree. It's a small thing, but another thing I missed was all the little item descriptions and unique item names. Much better than 10 different items with different stats all named "Ring" or "Amulet" or "Ornate Belt"  "

So if DA2 was developed mostly in 8 months.....  8 months ago is when the game informer reveal happened.... 
So that means DA2 had very little if any work done by the time they had to meet up with gameinformer and show off the game. 
To me that seems very unlikely for Bioware to show off a game they had been working on for say about 2 months. 
He does also say that it was done MOSTLY in 8 months but im guessing it had the equivalent of 2 months of work done if it were the title they were focusing on even if it took longer they probly still had an equivalent amount of work done considering it clearly wasnt a major focus at the time.  I really hope you guys can understand what that last sentence was trying to say because i think i could have worded it better haha. 
 
Anyways I havent played it and I still want to no matter what people are saying about it even if im more a mass effect type fo guy. (PLEASE tell me that ME3 will go back to the inventory management of ME1 while keeping the solid combat of ME2)

" 8 months, huh? I guess I can't bitch about the reused dungeon thing anymore. "

" Some real choice gems from those forums.
 
" Alpha Protocol, unlike Mass Effect 2, is more of a RPG than a shooter, it helps to look at it that way instead of excepting the game to be something that it isn't! e: It's like buying DA:O and getting pissed that it doesn't have Dynasty Warriors combat."
 
"Fable 2 was better than Mass Effect 2. " "

" @Enigma777 said:

" @ryanwho said:

" @Enigma777 said:

" I'm not surprised. The game just feels smaller than DAO in every way and there's certainly the feeling that certain parts are missing (though that might actually be because of the frame narative). With that said, I still think it's a 9/10 (or 4/5) game. "

Just having a new map for every dungeon would have made the game seem about 500% bigger. But when every cave leads to the same disheveled mine, you start feeling like you're in some kind of sadistic Truman show or rogue Matrix program. "

I absolutely agree. It's a small thing, but another thing I missed was all the little item descriptions and unique item names. Much better than 10 different items with different stats all named "Ring" or "Amulet" or "Ornate Belt"  "

That they actually had.  Under each item was a term for what the item was made of.  Silverite, etc.  There is also a lot of uniquely named equipment in the game.  Just take a gander at your equipment Codex next time. "

" @phantomzxro said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @Dany said:

" I still find it shocking that these Bioware games do not sell. Hopefully all of hte good will from ME2 will lead to good sales for ME3.  Considering that the production was only a year is crazy and it was able to fit in so much stuff is absurd. "

How can two million in sales be considered not selling well? "

Yeah i don't think it is bad at all, anything that sells a million is a hit. The problem is after that they expect to sell more then more and it goes on like that. Also it is something i'm sure they look like when they see every other major game AAA game selling more. "

No, one million is just about breaking even on an average AAA multi-plat game nowadays.  ME2 did well for them at 2 million sales, but it's not really anything to shout about (which is why you don't hear them shouting about it).    For perspective, if The Old Republic is really costing the alleged $300 million, that's equivalent to the profit from about ten Mass Effect 2's.  Or one FIFA 11. "

" @phantomzxro said:

I would say that i give credit to bioware in their work because they are one of the few to truly build around your game continueing after the game into the next with tranfering save games over which i'm sure is not easy too do. "

Maybe, but to me that felt like little more than a few on/off variables.  Is DUDE alive?    if YES then QUEST = active    if NO then QUEST = disabled  At least that's what it felt like to me anyways. Regardless, this is all heresay so it's kinda pointless. "

" @Turambar said:

" @Enigma777 said:

" @ryanwho said:

" @Enigma777 said:

" I'm not surprised. The game just feels smaller than DAO in every way and there's certainly the feeling that certain parts are missing (though that might actually be because of the frame narative). With that said, I still think it's a 9/10 (or 4/5) game. "

Just having a new map for every dungeon would have made the game seem about 500% bigger. But when every cave leads to the same disheveled mine, you start feeling like you're in some kind of sadistic Truman show or rogue Matrix program. "

I absolutely agree. It's a small thing, but another thing I missed was all the little item descriptions and unique item names. Much better than 10 different items with different stats all named "Ring" or "Amulet" or "Ornate Belt"  "

That they actually had.  Under each item was a term for what the item was made of.  Silverite, etc.  There is also a lot of uniquely named equipment in the game.  Just take a gander at your equipment Codex next time. "

Did you play Origins? Because the items there all had what they were made of along with a few sentences of description. That applied for EVERY item. There were also special items just like DA2 that had their own codex pages along with the standard description. And a lot more items had unique names in Origins than DA2.  "

" @Nasar7 said:   But...but that's against everything the N64 stood for! :( " Dang, once again my understanding is vexed by my lack of console knowledge.  I was PC exclusive while the N64 was doing its thing. "

I really loved Dragon Age II but man if thats true, then imagine how much better it would have been with a full 2 year development cycle. 
 
Why were they given such a short amount of time? Hasn't Bioware earned the right to make a game on their own terms?

" @phantomzxro said:

" @Hailinel said:

" @Dany said:

" I still find it shocking that these Bioware games do not sell. Hopefully all of hte good will from ME2 will lead to good sales for ME3.  Considering that the production was only a year is crazy and it was able to fit in so much stuff is absurd. "

How can two million in sales be considered not selling well? "

Yeah i don't think it is bad at all, anything that sells a million is a hit. The problem is after that they expect to sell more then more and it goes on like that. Also it is something i'm sure they look like when they see every other major game AAA game selling more. "

No, one million is just about breaking even on an average AAA multi-plat game nowadays.  ME2 did well for them at 2 million sales, but it's not really anything to shout about (which is why you don't hear them shouting about it).    For perspective, if The Old Republic is really costing the alleged $300 million, that's equivalent to the profit from about ten Mass Effect 2's.  Or one FIFA 11. "

" You know, I really don't understand why it is suddenly "cool" to shit on Bioware. Some people are even beginning to say shit like, "ME2 was a mediocre game." Really? Fucking really?   

Bioware games probably aren't selling as well as other titles because the crowd today doesn't want an RPG. And if they do, they'll buy something that goes back 10 years (i.e. Fallout, Elder Scrolls).
 
As for DA 2, I'm enjoying it. Running around the same city and dungeons is getting old, but they keep the story fresh with the time differences between acts. So, is that clever or lazy game design? The answer is probably "Cost Effective".

" @Kear said:

" @Nasar7 said:   But...but that's against everything the N64 stood for! :( " Dang, once again my understanding is vexed by my lack of console knowledge.  I was PC exclusive while the N64 was doing its thing. "

Some of the very best N64 titles (Ocarina of Time, GoldenEye) took years to make and were delayed more than once.  Meanwhile, some devs were busy shitting out horrible clones of Super Mario 64. "

Yep. Rushed dev cycle, sub par game. Imagine that.

I wonder how they are able to get 3 games out on the same year, I hope it is different teams on the different games :o

" @Enigma777:   Actually, after a quick google image search, I found this.   http://www.webalice.it/linea.tth/img/Inventory.jpg  There's not really much of a difference between that and equipment description in DA2. "

"@GrandHarrier said:

" You know, I really don't understand why it is suddenly "cool" to shit on Bioware. Some people are even beginning to say shit like, "ME2 was a mediocre game." Really? Fucking really?   

So... I understand where you're coming from here.  I do.  ME2 was a phenomenal game.  And yet... In terms of gameplay and plot structure it was very simplistic.  Which in and of itself isn't that bad, but bear with me here for a second.  Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2, Neverwinter Nights, KoTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1, Dragon Age: Origins, Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age 2.  Seeing it?  You see that?  That's a descending line.  Sadly, that descending line charts the fortunes of the RPG in general pretty closely, and I think that DA2 finally represents the crossing of a threshold.  That's why people are upset, and that's why they defend The Witcher and Alpha Protocol (LONG LIVE BLACK ISLE!).  Because those games, as flawed as they are, represent the ideals of the RPG, however flawed. "

" @Hailinel said:

" @Kear said:

" @Nasar7 said:   But...but that's against everything the N64 stood for! :( " Dang, once again my understanding is vexed by my lack of console knowledge.  I was PC exclusive while the N64 was doing its thing. "

Some of the very best N64 titles (Ocarina of Time, GoldenEye) took years to make and were delayed more than once.  Meanwhile, some devs were busy shitting out horrible clones of Super Mario 64. "

And actually, to make another note, at least regarding Ocarina of Time, the dev team for Majora's Mask was given about a year to put a Zelda game together.  They ended up reusing a lot of Ocarina's assets, but at the same time, they managed to put together one of the most original, darkest, and outright strange Zelda titles in the history of the series.  By all accounts, Dragon Age II is just Dragon Age Light. "

 Alpha protocol may be a cool rpg and does some great things but it is still a badly made game. "

" @phantomzxro said:

 Alpha protocol may be a cool rpg and does some great things but it is still a badly made game. "

To briefly stray in to total subjectivity I will say that I enjoyed Alpha Protocol more than DA2 so far.  I don't know that I realized that until I was typing it, but there it is.  And considering that that was something of a novice effort (in the shooter realm) from a studio notorious for making broken games, that's a problem.  To broaden the point, many many of my favorite games, my favorite RPGs in particular, are really flawed efforts that nevertheless have some alchemical magic to them.  That comes from time to a degree, but more than that it comes from care.  DA2 lacks the magic, and it's because someone doesn't care. "

Is anybody else sitting here reading these posts and thinking, "My God, I hope they didn't do the same thing with Mass Effect 3," ?

1 year dev cycle?  Well no one seems to complain about that, its just that they took out so much from the first game, that you wonder why they did bother adding new combat and using a different dialogue mechanic.  Just weird.