Dragon Age II: Exalted March - Canned

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#1 Posted by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

I guess this cancellation is a testament to the quality of the experience that is Dragon Age II. This expansion was going to provide ingame closure to the Hawke character's story. BioWare still wants to make Dragon Age III though, because, money.

#2 Posted by UltorOscariot (207 posts) -

I can live with less time being spent on trying to convince us that the mistake that was Dragon Age 2, was somehow not a mistake. GG, Bioware. Better luck next time.

#3 Posted by Grixxel (766 posts) -

Good riddance. Perpetuating that piece of shit for this long was bad enough.

#4 Posted by Jwkokosmakroon (158 posts) -

I don't get all the hate. I enjoyed DAII.

#5 Posted by Brodehouse (9967 posts) -

People are pissed off that they make DLC for Dragon Age 2.

People are pissed off that they aren't making DLC for Dragon Age 2.

People are pissed off that they're making Dragon Age 3.

What would make you fucking people happy? If they shuttered the studio and never made another fucking game? That's about the only thing I can think of that won't generate more Goddamn fucking bitching.

When I was a younger man, I wanted to make video games but now I know the audience who buys them would turn me into an ax murderer.

#6 Edited by Grixxel (766 posts) -

@Brodehouse: What would make people like you stop bitching about what others post on the internet? Some people think DA2 was a piece of shit, get over it and move along.

#7 Posted by zudthespud (3281 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

People are pissed off that they make DLC for Dragon Age 2. People are pissed off that they aren't making DLC for Dragon Age 2. People are pissed off that they're making Dragon Age 3. What would make you fucking people happy? If they shuttered the studio and never made another fucking game? That's about the only thing I can think of that won't generate more Goddamn fucking bitching. When I was a younger man, I wanted to make video games but now I know the audience who buys them would turn me into an ax murderer.

Nobody is ever happy. Tune out the bitching and listen to reviewers.

#8 Edited by AndrewB (7637 posts) -

@UltorOscariot: The good news is that, over time, they seem to be recognizing it more and more as a misstep and not trying to make excuses for it. The quote was (according to Joystiq): "This past year, we've spent a lot of time both going back to the 'BioWare vault' of games and re-examining them, and looking at some new possibilities that today's industry allows." Let's hope the re-examine the first game in the franchise they seem baffled with, because I hear that Origins was a pretty good game.

Psst!... for the record, Dragon Age 2 is not the irredeemable piece of shit people hyperbolize, but I'm still happy to see them focus their efforts on a new game.

#9 Posted by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

@Jwkokosmakroon: Maybe you should read up a little about what players feel about the game and what problems could be considered recurring throughout. I haven't discussed Dragon Age II in quite some time but I recall the apparent Recycling of dungeons a big let down. Carbon copies with the only difference that one dungeon had door A open, while the other had door A closed. It did feel rushed. I had a great time in Dragon Age that's why I had expectations for DAII.

It didn't take them long to print t-shirts for this expansion.

Dragon Age II: Nah Forget About it
#10 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

(I hope they're working on epilogue downloadable content for Mass Effect 3.)

#11 Edited by laserbolts (5324 posts) -

@Grixxel said:

@Brodehouse: What you make people like you stop bitching about what others post on the internet? Some people think DA2 was a piece of shit, get over it and move along.

You have to admit the hate for Bioware is completely ridiculous at this point though. Not only that but gamers seriously whine about every fucking thing imaginable. I almost wish I didn't love video games so much at this point so I wouldn't have to read what gamers think.

#12 Posted by Grixxel (766 posts) -

@laserbolts: True, but at the same time people automatically assuming everyone who dislikes a Bioware game is on the hate wagon is also getting old. Fuck you internet, fuck you >:|

#13 Posted by laserbolts (5324 posts) -

@Grixxel said:

@laserbolts: True, but at the same time people automatically assuming everyone who dislikes a Bioware game is on the hate wagon is also getting old. Fuck you internet, fuck you >:|

It's a weird situation isnt it? Pretty frustrating. I also hate the internet.

#14 Edited by Pinworm45 (4088 posts) -

@laserbolts said:

@Grixxel said:

@Brodehouse: What you make people like you stop bitching about what others post on the internet? Some people think DA2 was a piece of shit, get over it and move along.

You have to admit the hate for Bioware is completely ridiculous at this point though. Not only that but gamers seriously whine about every fucking thing imaginable. I almost wish I didn't love video games so much at this point so I wouldn't have to read what gamers think.

Get off forums then? Why the fuck are you reading gamers thoughts if you aren't interested in gamers thoughts?

Dragon Age 2 was shit. The ending for Mass Effect 3 was shit. Bioware has gone downhill, that's all there is to it. If you disagree, fine, you're the minority on the internet, and probably even off the internet too if they're scrapping DA2 DLC plans.

I see more people bitching about bitching, than I see bitching about games. The second anyone raises any criticisms about anything game related, the immediate reaction is "you're just a whining bitch who's entitled". No. I have an opinion, forums are a place to express it. I'm not going to grovel at Bioware, or any other studios feet and consider them infallible, because they are not. If you can't handle that, I suggest you follow your own advice at the end and find a new hobby.

#15 Posted by DonChipotle (2768 posts) -

Ah well that's a shame. DA2 wasn't nearly as awful as people like to say and I would've enjoyed an expansion on the level of an Awakening

#16 Edited by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

@Grixxel: You don't have to hate a company to discuss their games. BioWare harvests a lot of respect and love as well. Everybody expects either a BioWare circle-jerk or a BioWare witch-burning fest.

@Brodehouse: In your opinion they canned this expansion because Dragon Age II did ridiculously well in most peoples opinion? I'm not trying to enrage you further. I'm not sure that's possible.

#17 Posted by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@zudthespud said:

@Brodehouse said:

People are pissed off that they make DLC for Dragon Age 2. People are pissed off that they aren't making DLC for Dragon Age 2. People are pissed off that they're making Dragon Age 3. What would make you fucking people happy? If they shuttered the studio and never made another fucking game? That's about the only thing I can think of that won't generate more Goddamn fucking bitching. When I was a younger man, I wanted to make video games but now I know the audience who buys them would turn me into an ax murderer.

Nobody is ever happy. Tune out the bitching and listen to reviewers.

Yeah, because reviewers never bitch.

#18 Posted by Brodehouse (9967 posts) -
@Grixxel

@laserbolts: True, but at the same time people automatically assuming everyone who dislikes a Bioware game is on the hate wagon is also getting old. Fuck you internet, fuck you >:|

Dude, I have problems with Dragon Age 2. Mostly the same everyone else has. But there's no winning for them. They make some DLC for it, people get mad. They focus on the next game, people get mad. What is it they want? They don't want DLC, they don't want another game, what does that leave? A bottle of David Gaider's blood?

I'm ready to see what happens in a Dragon Age 3. But I wish I could ... I wish it could come out in a vacuum. Instead we're in for a whole year of bitching, and then it comes out around second week of March and there's even more bitching.
#19 Posted by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

@Mordukai: Only the finest whine comes from the mouth of the intellectual clique of professionals that is the race of the Reviewers.

I liked Mass Effect 3 by the way. The ending was a thing of beauty. Look at all that PR!

#20 Posted by RedRoach (1192 posts) -

@Brodehouse: DA2 felt ridiculously rushed. You spent hours and hours running through the exact same dungeons, only they would block off certain sections. But the worst part of that was they didn't even put in fake doors or a pile of rocks. They put a massive, perfectly rectangular stone slab right in front of the obvious doorway that would later be replaced when you enter someplace that is supposed to be entirely different. (you would actually go to separate places on the map, on a quest completely separate from the one before and end up in the same damn dungeon. The story was also lacking, it lacked the scale and awe of the first, Bioware said it was meant to be a personal story for Hawke. Although most of the characters were pretty weak with a few exceptions. The characters all lacked a real motivation for why they go through the shit they do. And the 3rd part to the hate of this game was the combat. It was very different from DA1, which was particularly annoying after Bioware said for months and months that it would still have that tactical feel everyone loved from DA:O. It's kind of maddening, because they kept saying things like "we wanted to change the combat, because no one was talking about the first" I went back and watched a lot of reviews and they all mentioned the fantastic combat system. I'm not one of those guys who QQs at the tiniest hint of "dumbing down" but I played that game on one of the harder difficulty settings and it was a button masher. It really was a rushed product and it showed (same thing with ME3, it was great, but could have been a lot better given more time.

So yeah I'm happy they dropped this. More effort on DA3. I remember reading awhile back that they plan on making it more like DA:O than 2 which sounds good to me. The quality of Bioware games has dropped recently and I honestly believe it is because of short dev times. They might be considered fairly average from most sequels (Im not sure) but maybe Bioware just needs a full 3 years or even just 2 and a half to make games that live up to expectations.

#21 Posted by cmblasko (1253 posts) -

@Funkydupe: "Providing in-game closure" doesn't seem to be high on Bioware's priorities list, unfortunately. Hopefully they can provide a fitting end to Hawke's story in DA3.

#22 Posted by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

@cmblasko: Hawke wasn't even a thing in Dragon Age: Origins, at least that's what I recall, unless I'm extra retarded today it appeared in DA2 to make the story more personal - are there any solid indications that character will be in the third game?

#23 Posted by Brodehouse (9967 posts) -
@Funkydupe

@Grixxel: You don't have to hate a company to discuss their games. BioWare harvests a lot of respect and love as well. Everybody expects either a BioWare circle-jerk or a BioWare witch-burning fest.

@Brodehouse: In your opinion they canned this expansion because Dragon Age II did ridiculously well in most peoples opinion? I'm not trying to enrage you further. I'm not sure that's possible.

What the FUCK are you talking about?!

They canned the expansion because A) Dragon Age 2 did not sell well. B) Sales on DLC drop precipitously the farther you get from release. There's point spending the money on budgeting it if it's not gonna sell. There's a better chance of getting a return if you put that money towards a whole new product.

But people are getting mad. How DARE they make a new video game. They can say anything at this point and people are going to get angry on the Internet. I just have no idea what these people want. They don't want DLC, they don't a new game, what does a company that makes video games left to do? Sell snowmobiles? I'm sure BioWare fans would be mad about that.
#24 Posted by haffy (673 posts) -

I liked DA2, would of bought an expansion for it.

It was rushed as fuck and it's easy to notice when you play the game. But it was fun to play, the only let down to me was knowing how good it could of been.

#25 Posted by Superfriend (1559 posts) -

@Jason_Bourne said:

I'm not one of those guys who QQs at the tiniest hint of "dumbing down" but I played that game on one of the harder difficulty settings and it was a button masher.

You mean "awesome-button" masher?

They should really try and focus their efforts on a new Dragon Age game. Don´t try to make like 4 mediocre games at once, pool your resources and make one good game (doesn´t mean you have to throw money out the window.. but Dragon Age deserves a better sequel) If they´re honestly looking at their older games and what made them great, then more power to them. Lil´hint: It´s not just the storytelling and dialog-wheels, it´s that little thing called "gameplay" that our wannabe film-critc fellow gamers often like to forget about.

#26 Posted by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@Funkydupe: Correction. Look at all the free PR.

#27 Posted by LordXavierBritish (6320 posts) -

And nothing of value was lost.

#28 Posted by Brodehouse (9967 posts) -
@rebgav

@Brodehouse said:

What would make you fucking people happy? If they shuttered the studio and never made another fucking game?

That could work!

Alternatively, they could continue banging sequels out in 18 months but stop trying to pass them off as being of equal or greater quality than the originals which took two to three times as long to make. They're in a better position for the next Dragon Age because no-one expects it to be as good as Origins and it's not likely to be a bigger disappointment than DA2 so as long as they manage expectations properly they will probably upset fewer people.

No one wanted to spend 5 years making Dragon Age: Origins. That was not the plan. It didn't take 5 years to 'create' Dragon Age: Origins, it took 5 years to make it work without crashing to desktop. The great story that everyone talks about doesn't take 5 years to write. This criticism also implies Dragon Age 3 will be out this holiday. Hey, maybe. I'm betting next March, because that appears to be BioWare month from here on, just like how May is Rockstar month.
#29 Posted by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

@Mordukai: Indeed!

#30 Posted by mordukai (7153 posts) -

@Funkydupe: I'm just not sure it's the right kind of free PR Bioware wants. I know I am pretty muc done with them and not because I am angry at them but because that I have been "on board" since the Baldur's Gate days and I am just not liking this new direction they are taking.

#31 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4825 posts) -

That's too bad, the Exalted March expansion had cool places it could have gone. Kind of an Incredible Hulk TV show direction with Hawke (and his love interest, whoever that was) running across Thedas trying to escape the Chantry's reckoning. Could have even built in a "final stand" type of ending to it. It had potential, in any event.

Oh, and the DLC add-ons for DA2? They were pretty great.

#32 Posted by JeanLuc (3586 posts) -

I liked my Hawke so kind of a bummer. Oh well, interested in how Dragon Age 3 will turn out.

#33 Edited by Sooty (8082 posts) -

Oh well. I don't expect anything from Dragon Age III either, it's quite clear the direction they are taking with their games. It won't be anything like Origins.

Also if people buy Mass Effect 3 epilogue or ending DLC then you're basically telling publishers that it's fine to postpone the ending of your game for DLC. I won't be buying it, but people that will are the reason why consumers are being gouged so much.

Well done.

#34 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4825 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Brodehouse said:

@rebgav

@Brodehouse said:

What would make you fucking people happy? If they shuttered the studio and never made another fucking game?

That could work!

Alternatively, they could continue banging sequels out in 18 months but stop trying to pass them off as being of equal or greater quality than the originals which took two to three times as long to make. They're in a better position for the next Dragon Age because no-one expects it to be as good as Origins and it's not likely to be a bigger disappointment than DA2 so as long as they manage expectations properly they will probably upset fewer people.

No one wanted to spend 5 years making Dragon Age: Origins. That was not the plan. It didn't take 5 years to 'create' Dragon Age: Origins, it took 5 years to make it work without crashing to desktop. The great story that everyone talks about doesn't take 5 years to write. This criticism also implies Dragon Age 3 will be out this holiday. Hey, maybe. I'm betting next March, because that appears to be BioWare month from here on, just like how May is Rockstar month.

Doesn't matter, Origins was the result of that over-long development process. DA2 was the result of a much shorter process and it shows in the amount and quality of the content. Bioware knew what their product was and how it compared to the original game and could have tried to manage expectations appropriately or could have brought their ambitions in line with their budget and schedule and reduced the scope of the game rather than padding it with repeated dungeons.

At this point I don't think it benefits anyone to push a DA2 sequel out quickly, regardless of the effect on quality, because they need as much distance between the last DA and the next one as possible so that the reaction to DA2 doesn't taint the prospects of DA3. Whether that mean that they'll work on the next DA for a longer period of time remains to be seen.

10 month dev cycle vs 24 month dev cycle. You are arguing that Bioware could not make something equal to Origins in the span of two years because... because...

If Bioware got two years minimum (which they will, at this point), DA3 will be far more robust than DA2 could have been. Why? Two years versus ten months. The only reason anything, anything at all should take five years to develop is because it is an impossibly huge, expansive game that is being held together by duct tape and a prayer. Dragon Age (or any Bioware game) has never been that. They aren't Skyrim. I see no reason why they should wait five years just to put a new Dragon Age game out.

#35 Posted by Brodehouse (9967 posts) -
@rebgav I expect DA3 to be on a two year cycle alternating with the Mass Effect series. I don't think there will be DA3 this holiday. Holiday is crowded, BioWare games don't necessarily get much of a bump from holiday, it makes better sense for them to own March like Rockstar owns May.

I'm sure they'll have an announcement this E3. The VGAs are too late to announce a March game, if that is the plan.
#36 Posted by Jack268 (3387 posts) -

If it means they make DA3 better than 2 was, then alright. I'm cool with it. I really do hope this "open mail to the fans" thing isn't just advertising bullshit and that they actually do listen to the fans.

#37 Posted by SlightConfuse (3963 posts) -

Damn as someone who enjoyed 2 a lot this sounded cool. i liked my hawke and would ahve loved to finsih her adventure out especiallly with the way 2 ended.

i enjoy the world of drragona ge ,so ill wait for what is next

#38 Posted by Donkeycow (556 posts) -

I'm actually optimistic about this. I see this as Bioware trying to distance themselves from a failure and now putting more resources behind making certain the sequel will be a massive improvement. Although i was completely let down by Dragon Age 2, i really enjoyed Origins (one of my favorite games of the generation for sure) and i would be the happiest boy in the world if they were able to put the franchise back to rights.

#39 Posted by Brodehouse (9967 posts) -
@Oldirtybearon If I can add to this, I feel like Naughty Dog making Uncharted 2 in 22 months, Visceral and BioWare making Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 in 24 months, Rocksteady making Arkham City in 24 months means no one else has any excuses. Unless you're coding a whole new graphics and gameplay engine... Just making art assets, level design, some writing, some VO... That should not take five years.
#40 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4825 posts) -

@Brodehouse said:

@Oldirtybearon If I can add to this, I feel like Naughty Dog making Uncharted 2 in 22 months, Visceral and BioWare making Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 in 24 months, Rocksteady making Arkham City in 24 months means no one else has any excuses. Unless you're coding a whole new graphics and gameplay engine... Just making art assets, level design, some writing, some VO... That should not take five years.

Well put. I wonder if people realize that Bioware had under a year to finish DA2.

#41 Posted by cmblasko (1253 posts) -

@Funkydupe: No solid indication, but it would be strange if there were no mention of him at all in 3.

#42 Posted by Brodehouse (9967 posts) -
@rebgav

@Brodehouse said:

@rebgav I expect DA3 to be on a two year cycle alternating with the Mass Effect series. I don't think there will be DA3 this holiday. Holiday is crowded, BioWare games don't necessarily get much of a bump from holiday, it makes better sense for them to own March like Rockstar owns May. I'm sure they'll have an announcement this E3. The VGAs are too late to announce a March game, if that is the plan.

If they put a new Dragon Age out next March, I think it'll be the last DA game they get to make. Who is going to jump onboard at this point? There's still too much ill-will associated with DA2 to get all of the people who bought that game and were disappointed to come back, I'm not sure that the franchise gets to continue if the next one performs like/worse than DA2 in terms of sales.

In terms of 'jump on board' that's an issue with every longrunning series that has a big setting or a constant narrative. That's actually the main reason there even is 12 Final Fantasies, because people jumped into 7 without having to worry about what happened in 4. I predict DA3 (if it ends up being called that) will be the last Dragon Age game to have a number.

I don't think time away is going to make hearts grow fonder. I don't think opinions are going to get better the farther you get from the last game. MGS2 is a great example. The people who hated it then still hate it now. If they waited to make Snake Eater, it wouldn't be more (or less) successful than coming out a few years later.

Personally, I like Dragon Age for the setting and the characters more than combat or level design, so more time spent making it doesn't improve the writing or lore. That's probably why (while disappointed) I didn't get Nic Cage enraged at it. It would be nice if the gameplay was better, cause I don't think it's ever been very good.
#43 Posted by FauxNinja (59 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

10 month dev cycle vs 24 month dev cycle. You are arguing that Bioware could not make something equal to Origins in the span of two years because... because...

If Bioware got two years minimum (which they will, at this point), DA3 will be far more robust than DA2 could have been. Why? Two years versus ten months. The only reason anything, anything at all should take five years to develop is because it is an impossibly huge, expansive game that is being held together by duct tape and a prayer. Dragon Age (or any Bioware game) has never been that. They aren't Skyrim. I see no reason why they should wait five years just to put a new Dragon Age game out.

Because we've seen their 18 month output in both the ME and DA franchises and it is not of the same content density as Origins. I am basing my opinion on actual experience of their products, I find that it is a good indicator.

You do realize the submission process isn't instantaneous.. on an 18 month project, you'd be lucky to get a full year of actual content creation in. The rest is pre production and then from content complete and on through bug fixing you're down about 6-8 months.

#44 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

If it weren't for the franchise name and Bioware being the developers, it wouldn't have gotten nearly as much hate. Kingdoms of Amalur is the perfect showcase of that. It's a much worse game, but a lot of people were much more forgiving.

DA2 was just disappointing. It removed much of what people loved about the original, the story was incredibly dull and it was obviously incredibly rushed. Moving onto a sequel/new game is definitely the right call, there was little they could do there to salvage it. Hopefully with the success of Skyrim and the Witcher 2 Bioware/EA have learned that people DO want expansive RPG's, and that they don't need to turn them into mindless action games for people to care.

#45 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4825 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

10 month dev cycle vs 24 month dev cycle. You are arguing that Bioware could not make something equal to Origins in the span of two years because... because...

If Bioware got two years minimum (which they will, at this point), DA3 will be far more robust than DA2 could have been. Why? Two years versus ten months. The only reason anything, anything at all should take five years to develop is because it is an impossibly huge, expansive game that is being held together by duct tape and a prayer. Dragon Age (or any Bioware game) has never been that. They aren't Skyrim. I see no reason why they should wait five years just to put a new Dragon Age game out.

Because we've seen their 18 month output in both the ME and DA franchises and it is not of the same content density as Origins. I am basing my opinion on actual experience of their products, I find that it is a good indicator.

The situation with DA2 was nowhere near the same thing as ME3. Nowhere even close. EA rushed DA2, expecting Bioware to deliver a final build of a 30 hour RPG in under a year's worth of development time. That's insane. ME3 development was started not long after ME2 wrapped (the end of 2009, considering there's a two-three month process to go from final build to cert to release). Ending controversy aside, ME3 was the best Mass Effect game to come out. If anything, it renewed my faith in the company. When they're given the proper amount of time to craft a game, they still do it like no other.

Also, you seem to be forgetting that Origins was not that dense in terms of content. There were a handful of NPCs to speak with, more than a handful of dungeons, but on the whole the map size was not that large. I loved the game a lot, but to say that it took Bioware five years to use the KOTOR framework of 5 hubs -> climax is laughably silly. The only reason Origins took as long as it did is because A) they ran into huge technical hurdles along the way and B) they delayed the PC version by seven months for the console version to catch up.

#46 Posted by BrockNRolla (1702 posts) -

Comeuppance!

#47 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4825 posts) -

@rebgav said:

@Oldirtybearon said:

The situation with DA2 was nowhere near the same thing as ME3. Nowhere even close. EA rushed DA2, expecting Bioware to deliver a final build of a 30 hour RPG in under a year's worth of development time. That's insane.

Again, I don't care. There are games which turn up annually and aren't egregiously disappointing. Bioware's games exist in the same marketplace as all of the other games, they cost the same, if they don't deliver because they're over-ambitious that's unfortunate but not my problem - I'm not going to buy their games out of charity or sympathy, I don't want $60-worth of excuses.

This has nothing to do with what you want. You talked out of your ass about the development process and how long it would take Bioware to make a good game. That's what this discussion is about, not whether or not you can find a better deal for the price to content ratio.

#48 Posted by devilzrule27 (1239 posts) -

You would think Dragon Age 2 was the worst game ever made given the internet's reaction to it since it's release. Truthfully, while it was a let down when compared to Dragon Age Origins, it's not that bad of a game. It told a good story and was a solid game for what it was, it just lacked the scope and feel of the first game. I've certainly played bigger pieces of shit in the last few years.

I'm looking forward to Dragon Age 3 when it comes out. It will probably be at least a solid game in it's own right, because thats typically what Bioware delivers, and hopefully it can pick everything back up to DAO levels.

#49 Edited by Mr_Skeleton (5145 posts) -

@Funkydupe said:

I guess this cancellation is a testament to the quality of the experience that is Dragon Age II. This expansion was going to provide ingame closure to the Hawke character's story. BioWare still wants to make Dragon Age III though, because, money.

Bioware pretty much said a few days ago they just started working on DA3.

#50 Posted by Brodehouse (9967 posts) -
@Mr_Skeleton They've been working on it for a while. They're just getting closer to the time where they can announce it. They didn't spend a whole year just making that Felicia Day mission.

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