This hard limit at around 50 saves needs to stop.

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#1 Edited by animathias (1157 posts) -

Developers limiting the number of saves to the player at some arbitrary number has been one of my biggest pet peeves since I was first introduced to the memory card back in the N64 days (on consoles, of course. I doubt this happens often on PC.) Don't get me wrong - a hard limit on saves has its place and can be vital in determining the difficulty of a game, and it makes perfect sense for developers to want the player's decisions to matter instead of them simply reloading a save and making the "better" decision.

Then there are games like Dragon Age 2. It boggles my mind that I can save, save, and save all I want, filling a couple of pages with files, then once some magical number is reached (exactly 34... how arbitrary is that number?) a prompt appears saying: "Save game limit reached for the current character. You must remove save games for the current character or overwrite an existing save game." It's bad enough that there's a limit, whether it be because of technical limitations or whatnot (though Oblivion didn't have this problem at all,) but then they don't give you any options to delete saves from that menu! Of course, you can head into your console's memory manager to delete the games, but (at least on the 360) it gives you some very limited information: Character's name, save number (which is useless if you have more than one character,) location, and save date (at least this info is correct. I don't know about you, but my copy of Dragon Age 2 thinks it's been August 1st, 2011 since I got it.) The useful information to have when I want to clean up save files would be: play time and more importantly - character level.

Clearly, I'm a guy who likes to save a lot, and surely I can't be the only one to simply load the save menu, hit A, then continue on my merry way - so why is the save system developed so badly? Now when I try to do so, I need to scroll down the list of 34 saves, pick one (usually the earliest,) and then I can continue playing my game. It's a minor pain in the behind, but when you compare the length of time it takes now to save to how almost instantaneously it happened before, it begins to wear on you. Why can't I press a button to delete saves? Why do they keep the "New Save" option highlighted, or not change it to "Overwrite Earliest Save"? Or, to make it more simple, why not limit my number of saves to the 50 gigs I still have on my hard drive? I could understand if they wanted to hard-limit the player's ability to save for gameplay reasons, but I'm of the mind that once you allow a player to save more than 5 or so times, that's a non-issue. In fact, if they decided on the magical number of 34, why not make it 10? You know, one page. So when we do eventually hit this arbitrary cap, we don't have to scroll down through pages to reach the save we least care about. 

I know this is a tiny thing to get worked up about, but it bugs the hell out of me. Something that used to be done without a thought now has to be carefully managed, and there's now a completely useless New Save option right at the top of the list that's highlighted whenever I enter the menu. Dragon Age 2 isn't the only culprit here either, but it's the latest to annoy me.

#2 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -

What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves?

#3 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -
@kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
Good question.
#4 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -
@Axxol said:
" @kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
Good question. "
I don't know anyone that's used more than 2 on any game ever.
#5 Posted by animathias (1157 posts) -
@kingzetta:

Saving on a whim. Whenever I think there might be a battle, or a conversation, or anything really. Especially since it (was) quick and easy to do.

I don't like missing anything or being locked into a decision that I might not like the outcome of. It's more bearable in games that are designed to force you into these decisions (though I always second guess myself in those games.)

#6 Posted by PhatSeeJay (3322 posts) -

I can see why one would save often. Hell if there's a quick save, I'll press that fucker every other minute.
But having 30 plus different saves feels strange. I usually have three that I overwrite depending on how far I've gotten and so on...

#7 Posted by xyzygy (9866 posts) -

This game actually keeps a few saves on hand anyway/ The ones besides your main manual save. There is always a last checkpoint save, the last autosave, your manual save and for some reason there is always another random autosave in there.

#8 Posted by ChristianCastillo (1178 posts) -

Well this reminds me of that question asked at PAX on how the guys get their footage for video reviews and the answer was that they save constantly.  So I guess this would suck for a person reviewing a game who needs all those saves but for a gamer who really doesn't need to go too back into a game I don't see the problem.  Just delete some of your previous saves that you know you will never load up again.

#9 Posted by kingzetta (4307 posts) -
@animathias said:
" @kingzetta:

Saving on a whim. Whenever I think there might be a battle, or a conversation, or anything really. Especially since it (was) quick and easy to do.

I don't like missing anything or being locked into a decision that I might not like the outcome of. It's more bearable in games that are designed to force you into these decisions (though I always second guess myself in those games.)

"
How do you go through life if you can't make a choice in a video game?
If someone asks you what you want to eat, your head must explode. 
I could choose hamburgers but that will lock me out of pizza. What do I do?!?!?!!
#10 Posted by norton123 (311 posts) -
@Axxol said:
" @kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
Good question. "
I'll second the "good question" part.  
 
If you are willing to overwrite early saves, why not simply overwrite one on the same page? I'm not suggesting you overwrite your last save. You could simply overwrite the seventh save down. That would eliminate the long scroll downward.  
 
As for the information you're given on each save's description, that is certainly a problem. I haven't had a chance to start DA II yet, but not giving simple information--such as character level and playtime--seems absurd. 
#11 Posted by Marz (5641 posts) -

i saved about 1500 times on my nightmare playthrough,  but i play on PC and most of those saves were quicksaves.  

#12 Edited by JeanLuc (3564 posts) -

I guess I understand why some people would want more then 50 saves but I'll never personally needed that much. I usually just quick save like a mother fucker which just always overwrites itself. 
 
At least its not like Mass Effect 1 on the 360 were you only had 10 save slots and no quick save. That was horrible. In fact, console games need to have quick save.

#13 Posted by Hailinel (23659 posts) -
@kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
To be fair, I have a friend that has filled memory cards with the save data from just a few games because she wanted easy access to all of the cutscenes.
#14 Edited by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

I think they keep the New Save option highlighted so they can prevent people from accidently overwriting their progress. Using your finger to press a button to de-select that option isn't physically demanding. 

#15 Posted by Video_Game_King (35780 posts) -

It's not as arbitrary as you think; it probably just reached its limit at 34, since you've probably played more games on your Xbox 360 than Dragon Age II.

#16 Posted by project343 (2809 posts) -
@animathias: Never play Heavy Rain. That game autosaves after every decision. And BOY are they impactful.
#17 Edited by wickedsc3 (1046 posts) -

All i can say is the developers must not ever expects someone to save 34 different times without over writing, and personally I never save in more than 2 or 3 slots.

#18 Posted by Milkman (16479 posts) -

Who in the holy hell needs 50 different saves? Maybe you should take a step back at look at the lifestyle choices you are making before you go knocking the developer. 

#19 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5796 posts) -

This is not a problem for normal people

#20 Posted by animathias (1157 posts) -
@wasteguru said:
" I guess I understand why some people would want more then 50 saves but I'll never personally needed that much. I usually just quick save like a mother fucker which just always overwrites itself.  At least its not like Mass Effect 1 on the 360 were you only had 10 save slots and no quick save. That was horrible. In fact, console games need to have quick save. "
Quick saving would solve a lot of my problems. The big issue for me is that saving went from nearly-instantaneous to tedious when I reached the cap. Imagine if your quick save button suddenly popped up a window telling you to go into a menu and overwrite a save, and you'll have to start deleting saves if you want to save as quickly again, but in order to delete these saves, you'll have to back out of the game, head into the game's directory, and pick them out one by one based on some very limited data.
#21 Posted by OmegaChosen (644 posts) -

I can understand having a ton of saves in an RPG but even I, a crazy prepared saver who saves before every decision, usually top off at around 15 different save files, this is end game amount including save game clears otherwise it's more like 10-12, mainly because I realize that some of my previous saves at choices are unlikely to ever be loaded again because I do not have the desire nor will to go back that far to change some tiny decision, so I save over them. Also, after a certain point I start to forget when exactly each save was saved at and thus I just overwrite it.

#22 Posted by Oldirtybearon (4513 posts) -

I keep it Qun with my saves. 
 
One life, one save.

#23 Posted by animathias (1157 posts) -
@kingzetta:

Life has infinite possibilities, Dragon Age 2 has a limited number of things you can do and locks you out of them when you cross a barrier.

@norton123:

That's what I've been doing, but it's the same thing as taking away the ability to press F5 to quick save and replacing it with a pop-up window telling you to manage your data. For people who always overwrite saves, this doesn't make sense. But for me, I'd hit Start-Left-A-A, and boom, game's saved. I feel I'm well within my rights to be annoyed when that suddenly becomes harder than it needs to be.

@wasteguru:

Yup, Mass Effect drove me crazy with that for a while, but 10 makes more sense than 34.

@Milkman:

I don't see how my lifestyle choices matter here. I've dealt with whatever condition I have for my entire life, fussing over decisions and putting more thoughts into my actions than probably ever needed, but it's worked out thus far. As far as knocking the developer, others have proven that there are clearly ways to limit your number of saves to your available memory, while certain ones (BioWare being one of the worst) limit you at arbitrary numbers.

#24 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11413 posts) -

I'm pretty sure that, at maximum, I will have 2 saves per game, especially if it's prone to save corruption. Thus, this is not a problem I have. Ever.

#25 Edited by DystopiaX (5291 posts) -

34 saves is a lot...yeah a set number of hard saves are stupid but you can't go and overwrite an older save you don't need anymore?

#26 Posted by Skald (4366 posts) -
@Hailinel
@kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
To be fair, I have a friend that has filled memory cards with the save data from just a few games because she wanted easy access to all of the cutscenes.
Did you tell her about YouTube?
#27 Posted by animathias (1157 posts) -
@DystopiaX:

You can overwrite them, but it adds about 4 more steps to what was once a simple process. It doesn't sound like a lot of hassle, but when you want to save whenever you think something dramatic is about to happen, it starts to wear on you. Especially with how my mind works: I don't want to overwrite fresh saves because that's where I feel my best progress is. I don't want to overwrite way earlier saves because if I find out I made a fatal decision 5 hours in, I'd like to have the chance to go back to that (for Achievements and the such.) So the sweet spot to overwrite would be somewhere in the middle of the list, but it would be impossible for me to simply scroll down to some random save and overwrite it without analyzing that save and the ones around it to make an informed decision on which one I want to get rid of. 


I know I'm crazy, people, I've dealt with it for 25 years. However, there have been plenty of games without this issue, and from every way I've looked at it, there's no rhyme or reason for the issue to exist. 

#28 Posted by Vinny_Says (5681 posts) -
@animathias said:
" @kingzetta:

Saving on a whim. Whenever I think there might be a battle, or a conversation, or anything really. Especially since it (was) quick and easy to do.

I don't like missing anything or being locked into a decision that I might not like the outcome of. It's more bearable in games that are designed to force you into these decisions (though I always second guess myself in those games.)

"
There won't ever be a time where you'll regret 50 decisions. 34 is more than enough.
#29 Posted by DrPockets000 (2859 posts) -

I'm almost 100% certain that this has something to do with some sort of local memory capacity, or something like that.

#30 Posted by BeachThunder (11631 posts) -

As a fellow savaholic, I agree. The only limit should be harddrive space, not an arbitrary number.
 
I disagree with your comments on difficulty, though; restricting saves never makes a game harder, only more frustrating.

#31 Posted by spazmaster666 (1965 posts) -

As someone who had over 300 saves for Oblivion and about 200 saves for Fallout 3, I did run into the save limit for both Origins and for Dragon Age 2. But at that point what I usually do is just start overwriting earlier saves, so it's not a big deal for me. Also those Dragon Age II save files are pretty big (about 5 MB each) so they do start to take up a lot of space (I think I had about 1.5GB worth of Oblivion saves still sitting on my 360 hard drive.) at some point.  
 
Also this isn't just limited to consoles either. For instance, Bioware limited the number of saves you can have for each character for Mass Effect 2 on the PC as well.

#32 Posted by louiedog (2333 posts) -

When I play games like Fallout or other long RPGs I don't overwrite my saves. Bugs occur, files become corrupt, mistakes get made, etc. For these reasons I like to have my last 5 or so saves. Instead of scrolling to my 5th most recent save every time, I just keep saving because it's usually faster to just do that. If a game has a limit and I hit it, I just go in and spend a minute deleting all but the 5 most recent. I've never wanted to keep more than that.

#33 Posted by fox01313 (5061 posts) -

Agreed to save often though I think that I prefer to keep a few saves near memorable/story hinging moments, anything beyond a dozen of hard & quick saves for 1 character is just lunacy for me to keep track of what's what. I do think they need to remove the limiter though as I'm at least someone who enjoys replaying some rpgs with a few saves on each, so after a while they will collectively add up to hit any save game limts.

#34 Posted by Hailinel (23659 posts) -
@extremeradical said:
" @Hailinel
@kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
To be fair, I have a friend that has filled memory cards with the save data from just a few games because she wanted easy access to all of the cutscenes.
Did you tell her about YouTube? "
This was actually before Youtube.
#35 Posted by DriveupLife (909 posts) -
@animathias:
stop being so afraid of a little loss, sometimes you make a bad decision and you have to live with it. You're missing out on some of the fun that lies in the unknown.
#36 Posted by animathias (1157 posts) -
@spazmaster666:

It's not a huge deal. Enough for me to get annoyed and post a forum topic, sure, but people post even more meaningless stuff on a regular basis. I also feel this is a fair issue that other developers have proven doesn't need to exist. I can easily overwrite the saves, but it seems like way more of a hassle than hitting a quick sequence of buttons then moving on.

@BeachThunder:

I actually agree with you, I was just putting that there to cover my butt. :) Sure, it makes sense in games like Demon's Souls or Fable, but it's just frustrating. Dead Rising was the game I was thinking about when typing that originally. I never would have finished it if you couldn't restart with your level, and even then there were at least 3 times where I thought I was going to have a panic attack because I messed up my time management by a few in-game hours and couldn't save certain people. But then again, Dead Rising 2 proved that even multiple save points can't save a perfectionist gamer from themselves in those games.

@louiedog:

I'll be heading into the memory management to clean it all up the next time I want to play, but man... those save file names are bad. Instead of just the last 5 recent, I'd like to keep one before each "story threshold" so I can go back and get achievements or change a decision if it proves to be really bad. So I'll have to figure out which saves I want to keep by analyzing each one, so I've got a small chore ahead of me.

@fox01313:

Oh yeah, keeping track of the saves becomes a nightmare, but at that point you only need to worry about it if you're going back. Once I "finished" Oblivion, I went into the memory screen and moved the 5 saves I wanted over to a memory stick (one at the end, one at the very beginning so I'd never have to tutorialize again, and a few in the Shivering Isles for achievements) then wiped the rest out. I'm just kind of annoyed that DA2 is forcing me to do this management already and that I'll likely have to do it a few more times or just add time to my saving habit - which sucks because that game saves SO quickly when you just hit New Save. Start-Left-A-A became second nature and now I have to add more steps on.


#37 Posted by Skald (4366 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @extremeradical said:
" @Hailinel
@kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
To be fair, I have a friend that has filled memory cards with the save data from just a few games because she wanted easy access to all of the cutscenes.
Did you tell her about YouTube? "
This was actually before Youtube. "
So these were what, N64 memory cards? 
 
Rad.
#38 Posted by DystopiaX (5291 posts) -
@animathias said:
" @DystopiaX:

You can overwrite them, but it adds about 4 more steps to what was once a simple process. It doesn't sound like a lot of hassle, but when you want to save whenever you think something dramatic is about to happen, it starts to wear on you. Especially with how my mind works: I don't want to overwrite fresh saves because that's where I feel my best progress is. I don't want to overwrite way earlier saves because if I find out I made a fatal decision 5 hours in, I'd like to have the chance to go back to that (for Achievements and the such.) So the sweet spot to overwrite would be somewhere in the middle of the list, but it would be impossible for me to simply scroll down to some random save and overwrite it without analyzing that save and the ones around it to make an informed decision on which one I want to get rid of. 


I know I'm crazy, people, I've dealt with it for 25 years. However, there have been plenty of games without this issue, and from every way I've looked at it, there's no rhyme or reason for the issue to exist. 

"
Yeah, personally for me I like to roll through a complete playthrough without looking at alternate paths, it feels more like a complete game/storyline with my own choices. If the game is compelling enough then i'll go back and play as a different character.
#39 Posted by animathias (1157 posts) -
@DriveupLife said:
" @animathias: stop being so afraid of a little loss, sometimes you make a bad decision and you have to live with it. You're missing out on some of the fun that lies in the unknown. "
You have no idea how many times I've told myself this. I even had that back and forth in my head before posting this topic. I really should just play the game and not worry about it, but when I'm playing the game I start to worry about it. In some ways, games like Assassin's Creed or Fable with single, unseen save slots are more soothing, because I can't do anything about it.
#40 Posted by Hailinel (23659 posts) -
@extremeradical said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @extremeradical said:
" @Hailinel
@kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
To be fair, I have a friend that has filled memory cards with the save data from just a few games because she wanted easy access to all of the cutscenes.
Did you tell her about YouTube? "
This was actually before Youtube. "
So these were what, N64 memory cards?  Rad. "
PS1/PS2 memory cards, actually.
#41 Posted by jmic75 (262 posts) -

I tried to limit my saves when playing through just so I stuck with my decisions and didn't reload and select something different. Having unlimited saves in fallout 3 and oblivion were a problem for me on the 360 as whenever I hard saved it would create a new file, at the end of the game I had a couple hundred and they are a pain in the ass to delete one by one from the console. 

#42 Posted by RIDEBIRD (1230 posts) -

No idea dude, but I realized that I saved about twice every minute on my hard playthrough just now. Yay PC, yay crazy OCD quicksaving.. I have a problem.

#43 Posted by animathias (1157 posts) -
@Ertard said:
" No idea dude, but I realized that I saved about twice every minute on my hard playthrough just now. Yay PC, yay crazy OCD quicksaving.. I have a problem. "

I should've gotten the PC version. Looking at my save times, it seems I tend to save every 10-20 minutes. In an RPG, those start to add up.

...I too have a problem.

#44 Edited by Skald (4366 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

" @extremeradical said:

" @Hailinel said:
" @extremeradical said:
" @Hailinel
@kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
To be fair, I have a friend that has filled memory cards with the save data from just a few games because she wanted easy access to all of the cutscenes.
Did you tell her about YouTube? "
This was actually before Youtube. "
So these were what, N64 memory cards?  Rad. "
PS1/PS2 memory cards, actually. "
Playstation would've been my second guess. 
 
That whole process couldn't have been too pretty.
#45 Posted by W0lfbl1tzers (1787 posts) -

I just deleted about twenty of my sixty seven Far Cry 2 saves. I make a new save every chance I get in that game because it's fucked up. So I would have to agree about the save limiting thing. It's dumb and it needs to stop.

#46 Edited by JoeyRavn (4945 posts) -
@kingzetta said:

" @Axxol said:

" @kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
Good question. "
I don't know anyone that's used more than 2 on any game ever. "
I always save in different spots in RPGs like FNV, ME or DAO. I don't like risking my 40-hour-long playthrough to corruption or bugging, you know. If you can't see the scenario in which someone would like to keep different saves for the same character, try it yourself and see how practical it can be. Then again, I'm on PC, so space is not a problem. If I ever need more than what the game can allow me to have, I'll just back everything up and start saving from scratch. And in the end, I always clean up when I'm reaching 100 or so saves, but seriously, it's not that uncommon.
#47 Posted by Mcfart (1537 posts) -
@animathias said:
"

Developers limiting the number of saves to the player at some arbitrary number has been one of my biggest pet peeves since I was first introduced to the memory card back in the N64 days (on consoles, of course. I doubt this happens often on PC.) Don't get me wrong - a hard limit on saves has its place and can be vital in determining the difficulty of a game, and it makes perfect sense for developers to want the player's decisions to matter instead of them simply reloading a save and making the "better" decision.

Then there are games like Dragon Age 2. It boggles my mind that I can save, save, and save all I want, filling a couple of pages with files, then once some magical number is reached (exactly 34... how arbitrary is that number?) a prompt appears saying: "Save game limit reached for the current character. You must remove save games for the current character or overwrite an existing save game." It's bad enough that there's a limit, whether it be because of technical limitations or whatnot (though Oblivion didn't have this problem at all,) but then they don't give you any options to delete saves from that menu! Of course, you can head into your console's memory manager to delete the games, but (at least on the 360) it gives you some very limited information: Character's name, save number (which is useless if you have more than one character,) location, and save date (at least this info is correct. I don't know about you, but my copy of Dragon Age 2 thinks it's been August 1st, 2011 since I got it.) The useful information to have when I want to clean up save files would be: play time and more importantly - character level.

Clearly, I'm a guy who likes to save a lot, and surely I can't be the only one to simply load the save menu, hit A, then continue on my merry way - so why is the save system developed so badly? Now when I try to do so, I need to scroll down the list of 34 saves, pick one (usually the earliest,) and then I can continue playing my game. It's a minor pain in the behind, but when you compare the length of time it takes now to save to how almost instantaneously it happened before, it begins to wear on you. Why can't I press a button to delete saves? Why do they keep the "New Save" option highlighted, or not change it to "Overwrite Earliest Save"? Or, to make it more simple, why not limit my number of saves to the 50 gigs I still have on my hard drive? I could understand if they wanted to hard-limit the player's ability to save for gameplay reasons, but I'm of the mind that once you allow a player to save more than 5 or so times, that's a non-issue. In fact, if they decided on the magical number of 34, why not make it 10? You know, one page. So when we do eventually hit this arbitrary cap, we don't have to scroll down through pages to reach the save we least care about. 

I know this is a tiny thing to get worked up about, but it bugs the hell out of me. Something that used to be done without a thought now has to be carefully managed, and there's now a completely useless New Save option right at the top of the list that's highlighted whenever I enter the menu. Dragon Age 2 isn't the only culprit here either, but it's the latest to annoy me.

"
Just copy the saves folder then you'll have all your chap 1 and 2 saves in a copied folder (trust me, you'll never touch them again), and there's another 50 saves...
#48 Posted by animathias (1157 posts) -
@Mcfart:

Wish I could, but I'm on the console. I've thought about formating the one flash drive I have that works with the 360 and moving the saves over to there, but at that point I might as well be micromanaging and deleting the ones I don't need.

At this point, I'm pretty happy with my playthrough, so I'd only ever go back for some achievement hunting. I've been staying clear of the list for the Secret ones, but I know that there are some that require taking certain sides or finding certain items before you reach thresholds.

#49 Posted by ComradeKhan (687 posts) -
@Milkman said:
" Who in the holy hell needs 50 different saves? Maybe you should take a step back at look at the lifestyle choices you are making before you go knocking the developer.  "
Exactly... This seems like a psychological problem. 34 saves is WAY too many, i'm surprised the devs even let you do that many. The problem is not the games fault - its the player's ocd that needs to be fixed.
#50 Posted by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -
@JoeyRavn said:
" @kingzetta said:

" @Axxol said:

" @kingzetta said:
" What the fuck are you doing, that you need more than 50 saves? "
Good question. "
I don't know anyone that's used more than 2 on any game ever. "
I always save in different spots in RPGs like FNV, ME or DAO. I don't like risking my 40-hour-long playthrough to corruption or bugging, you know. If you can't see the scenario in which someone would like to keep different saves for the same character, try it yourself and see how practical it can be. Then again, I'm on PC, so space is not a problem. If I ever need more than what the game can allow me to have, I'll just back everything up and start saving from scratch. And in the end, I always clean up when I'm reaching 100 or so saves, but seriously, it's not that uncommon. "
No. "Trying it ourselves" won't change anything. Keeping 50 saves of one play through is not as common as you think.

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