Dragon's Dogma: Expectations vs Reality

Posted by ERoBB (160 posts) -

I'm highly anticipating Dragon's Dogma. In fact, now that Ni No Kuni has been delayed until next year, Dragon's Dogma is the only game I plan on buying this year. That will definitely change come E3, but for now, it's all about Dogma. Which is why I'm kind of being bummed out by every limitation I find out about. I suppose I let my imagination of what the game could be get away from me.

When I first heard about the four party system, I was excited. You don't get four characters in most RPG parties. And when I heard about customizing your pawns, I thought you could customize all three pawns in your group. Imagine all of the character creation possibilities. You could make four Dwarves (they'd technically still be human, but whatever). It'd be hilarious to see all four tiny little fighters climb onto the back of a Cyclops. But, as it turns out, you only get to make one pawn, the main sidekick. I'm sure I could find two pre made or user made pawns online that would match a theme, but it's not the same.

That's okay, two is better than one. I quickly thought up another fun party dynamic. I'd make the main pawn a good looking, gallant, magic fighter, as close to a Paladin as I could. Heavy armor, like a true Prince Charming. Then I'd make his partner, a fucking ugly oaf with a bowl cut, big nose, and scars. A big dumb lug who picks everyone up and throws them (something you can do in the game). It'd be like Lenny in Of Mice and Men. But the funny part is, I'd be playing as the oaf, and the true Hero is the AI controlled pawn. But then i found out the pawns will be limited to the basic classes and advanced classes. The advanced classes are really just purified versions of the basic. So realistically your pawns can only be one of three classes: fighter, mage, or archer. So if I can't make my Prince Charming a paladin (called a mystic knight) he'd just be a basic fighter, and my oaf would have all the cool abilites. Well that kind of ruins the dynamic I had planned. If the oaf is doing complex magic buffs and heals, and Prince Charming is just hacking away. This also means that trading and optimizing pawns (a big online component) will really just be trading fighters for mages and mages for rogues. Players will most likely play as the three cool hybrid classes, and pawns will just be basic party additions. Why? Why limit the pawn system, which seems like one of the main aspects of the game?

Capcom is pouring money and resources into this game, which before being tied to a Resident Evil 6 demo was an unheard of game no one cared about, but had become a black horse engine that could. All of the sudden people are talking about this game. There's hype and excitement. My thoughts are that this game could be the Saint's Row to Skyrim's Grand Theft Auto. While GTA/Skyrim have massive budgets and sales, they deliver mostly conventional experiences. Good looking, well polished, but very by the numbers. Whereas Saint's Row uses it's lack of standards as a boon, and the game delivers all of those whacked out moments and freedoms missing from the bigger game. This was and is my hope for Dragon's Dogma. So why then would they limit the pawn system? Why not allow me to customize all four party members and loan out any of the three at any time? Why not allow me to access all of the game's classes for any of my group members?

#1 Posted by ERoBB (160 posts) -

I'm highly anticipating Dragon's Dogma. In fact, now that Ni No Kuni has been delayed until next year, Dragon's Dogma is the only game I plan on buying this year. That will definitely change come E3, but for now, it's all about Dogma. Which is why I'm kind of being bummed out by every limitation I find out about. I suppose I let my imagination of what the game could be get away from me.

When I first heard about the four party system, I was excited. You don't get four characters in most RPG parties. And when I heard about customizing your pawns, I thought you could customize all three pawns in your group. Imagine all of the character creation possibilities. You could make four Dwarves (they'd technically still be human, but whatever). It'd be hilarious to see all four tiny little fighters climb onto the back of a Cyclops. But, as it turns out, you only get to make one pawn, the main sidekick. I'm sure I could find two pre made or user made pawns online that would match a theme, but it's not the same.

That's okay, two is better than one. I quickly thought up another fun party dynamic. I'd make the main pawn a good looking, gallant, magic fighter, as close to a Paladin as I could. Heavy armor, like a true Prince Charming. Then I'd make his partner, a fucking ugly oaf with a bowl cut, big nose, and scars. A big dumb lug who picks everyone up and throws them (something you can do in the game). It'd be like Lenny in Of Mice and Men. But the funny part is, I'd be playing as the oaf, and the true Hero is the AI controlled pawn. But then i found out the pawns will be limited to the basic classes and advanced classes. The advanced classes are really just purified versions of the basic. So realistically your pawns can only be one of three classes: fighter, mage, or archer. So if I can't make my Prince Charming a paladin (called a mystic knight) he'd just be a basic fighter, and my oaf would have all the cool abilites. Well that kind of ruins the dynamic I had planned. If the oaf is doing complex magic buffs and heals, and Prince Charming is just hacking away. This also means that trading and optimizing pawns (a big online component) will really just be trading fighters for mages and mages for rogues. Players will most likely play as the three cool hybrid classes, and pawns will just be basic party additions. Why? Why limit the pawn system, which seems like one of the main aspects of the game?

Capcom is pouring money and resources into this game, which before being tied to a Resident Evil 6 demo was an unheard of game no one cared about, but had become a black horse engine that could. All of the sudden people are talking about this game. There's hype and excitement. My thoughts are that this game could be the Saint's Row to Skyrim's Grand Theft Auto. While GTA/Skyrim have massive budgets and sales, they deliver mostly conventional experiences. Good looking, well polished, but very by the numbers. Whereas Saint's Row uses it's lack of standards as a boon, and the game delivers all of those whacked out moments and freedoms missing from the bigger game. This was and is my hope for Dragon's Dogma. So why then would they limit the pawn system? Why not allow me to customize all four party members and loan out any of the three at any time? Why not allow me to access all of the game's classes for any of my group members?

#2 Posted by RVonE (4621 posts) -

If you're really bummed out about the one pawn system, you can always try to cheat. Create two more Live or PSN accounts and create a main character + pawn there. Log in with your main account and find the pawns of you other accounts.

#3 Edited by JustKamToo (680 posts) -

The only issue with that is you would have to level up each pawn separately as any pawns you hire do not get any exp / levels while they are with you. Saying that the amount of abominations you'll find online will likely give you all the dwarfs and elfs you want. Just be happy they left out the furry options

#4 Posted by RVonE (4621 posts) -

@JustKamToo said:

The only issue with that is you would have to level up each pawn separately as any pawns you hire do not get any exp / levels while they are with you. Saying that the amount of abominations you'll find online will likely give you all the dwarfs and elfs you want. Just be happy they left out the furry options

Agreed.

#5 Posted by JackSukeru (5908 posts) -

There's a Resident Evil 6?

My guess is they only let the main guy be the special classes so that the character would actually be special, not sure how or if any of it ties into the story however. I was fine with only having one main pawn cutomizable but maybe that's because I'm used to thinking about the dynamic between two characters and four seems like too much at this point.

Maybe the reason they're limiting it to four is so that you'll actually use other players pawns? I know that if I could make all four dudes, I'd probably just stick with them through the whole thing.

#6 Posted by gamefreak9 (2356 posts) -

I don't get why the pawn thing is a big deal... didn't we customize Mass effect character builds? How bout kotor?

#7 Edited by BraveToaster (12590 posts) -

The main character is one of the Arisen, so I'll go out on a limb and say that the Arisen are the only ones who can ascend to Hybrid classes. I have a feeling that this will be explained in the game, just like they will explain why pawns don't have emotions and never age.

#8 Posted by Neferon (262 posts) -

The game still looks very promising to me. I'm personally less concerned about customization and more about the degree of freedom this game will offer.

#9 Posted by SuperSambo (2858 posts) -

You seem to want to take your gaming to a level that not many others do.

@gamefreak9 said:

I don't get why the pawn thing is a big deal... didn't we customize Mass effect character builds? How bout kotor?

This.

Online
#10 Posted by ERoBB (160 posts) -

@gamefreak9: In those games you didn't customize team members and trade them online.

#11 Posted by ERoBB (160 posts) -

@SuperSambo: Ha! I'm not some psycho who talks to his characters. But if I'm gonna play an open world game that's all about character development that takes 100 hours to beat, I have to actually like my character. Or in this case characters.

#12 Posted by RVonE (4621 posts) -

@ERoBB said:

@SuperSambo: Ha! I'm not some psycho who talks to his characters. But if I'm gonna play an open world game that's all about character development that takes 100 hours to beat, I have to actually like my character. Or in this case characters.

Which you still can. Don't like two of your pawns? Dismiss them and hire new ones.

#13 Posted by Karkarov (3056 posts) -

@ERoBB said:

That's okay, two is better than one. I quickly thought up another fun party dynamic. I'd make the main pawn a good looking, gallant, magic fighter, as close to a Paladin as I could. Heavy armor, like a true Prince Charming. Then I'd make his partner, a fucking ugly oaf with a bowl cut, big nose, and scars. A big dumb lug who picks everyone up and throws them (something you can do in the game). It'd be like Lenny in Of Mice and Men. But the funny part is, I'd be playing as the oaf, and the true Hero is the AI controlled pawn. But then i found out the pawns will be limited to the basic classes and advanced classes. The advanced classes are really just purified versions of the basic. So realistically your pawns can only be one of three classes: fighter, mage, or archer. So if I can't make my Prince Charming a paladin (called a mystic knight) he'd just be a basic fighter, and my oaf would have all the cool abilites. Well that kind of ruins the dynamic I had planned. If the oaf is doing complex magic buffs and heals, and Prince Charming is just hacking away. This also means that trading and optimizing pawns (a big online component) will really just be trading fighters for mages and mages for rogues. Players will most likely play as the three cool hybrid classes, and pawns will just be basic party additions. Why? Why limit the pawn system, which seems like one of the main aspects of the game?

I will reply to this specifically because one: I think I know the answer, and two: everyone else has mentioned the fact that there will be thousands of other pawns etc etc.

So why no Hybrid classes for the Pawns? Two reasons. First you are the Arisen like another poster mentioned. You need something to make you feel a little more BA than the pawns what with being the main character. Second... I think it would simply unbalance the game. The hybrids get some seriously crazy moves and have a very broad range of moves. Think about how easy the game would be if your party consisted of a dude who could fire homing arrows that are bolts of magical power, a dude who could group buff every at once not to mention be a monster with aoe magic and melee, a chick who could instant kill normal enemies and turn invisible, and one more dude who could repeat one set of skills again. You would basically curb stomp almost every encounter in the game.

So for the sake of game balance they wanted to limit you to one hybrid only.

#14 Posted by Doctorchimp (4073 posts) -

Meh.

I really don't get the hype for this game. Especially after that demo.

#15 Posted by ERoBB (160 posts) -

@Doctorchimp: Check out the videos on OfficialXboxMag's Youtube page. That's what sold me.

#16 Posted by VDay (25 posts) -

@Doctorchimp: It's an open world RPG with combat that's actually fun and engaging. If that alone doesn't at least get you slightly interested then maybe it's just not for you. If the demo's all you've seen of this game then, like ERoBB suggested, go check out some videos of the game in action.

#17 Posted by Doctorchimp (4073 posts) -

@VDay said:

@Doctorchimp: It's an open world RPG with combat that's actually fun and engaging. If that alone doesn't at least get you slightly interested then maybe it's just not for you. If the demo's all you've seen of this game then, like ERoBB suggested, go check out some videos of the game in action.

The combat from the demo didn't do anything for me and that dude you keep saying that put up awesome videos ended up giving the game a 6.

#18 Edited by VDay (25 posts) -

@Doctorchimp: Try actually messing around with stuff like attack timings and incorporating your skills in combos. Also try the prologue portion without picking up the two pawns at the rift stone at the beginning. The demo's not good because it's the same one that they've been using for a while at conventions/shows, so it's designed for someone to jump on and play for 15 minutes. You're playing the tutorial section(prologue) and then a mission that you're slightly over-leveled for. If you actually mess around with it, you'll see the combat can be pretty deep. This is all assuming that you thought the combat was boring because you just went through the whole thing mashing light attack until stuff died. If that's not the case then yeah, maybe the game's just not for you I guess. Nothing wrong with that.

Also the guy who put up the videos is from OXM UK, not the OXM that gave the game a 6. There's also no actual review out yet from them besides their clever blurb on metacritic which I'm sure they were proud of thinking up.

#19 Posted by Doctorchimp (4073 posts) -

@VDay said:

@Doctorchimp: Try actually messing around with stuff like attack timings and incorporating your skills in combos. Also try the prologue portion without picking up the two pawns at the rift stone at the beginning. The demo's not good because it's the same one that they've been using for a while at conventions/shows, so it's designed for someone to jump on and play for 15 minutes. You're playing the tutorial section(prologue) and then a mission that you're slightly over-leveled for. If you actually mess around with it, you'll see the combat can be pretty deep. This is all assuming that you thought the combat was boring because you just went through the whole thing mashing light attack until stuff died.

Also the guy who put up the videos is from OXM UK, not the OXM that gave the game a 6. There's also no actual review out yet from them besides their clever blurb on metacritic which I'm sure they were proud of thinking up.

I mean it's not like I got hit during the demo...or just mash on light attack. Have you played Dark or Demon's Souls? That has some great skillful combat, alright, sorry. This is what I get for coming into a topic called Expectations vs Reality and thinking it was going to be a little bit more than just a hype thread.

#20 Posted by VDay (25 posts) -

@Doctorchimp: My post was based on what most people's complaints have been when they say that the combat didn't do anything for them. Like I said if that's not the case then maybe the game's just not for you which is fine. I don't see why you're replying as if I'm screaming at you for daring to not like a game that I'm excited about or something. You said the combat did nothing for you, I tried to recommend some ways to make it more fun, that's it.

And yeah Demon's/Dark Souls has great combat, but it's all about being patient, and figuring out an enemy's weakness. That kind of slow, methodical combat wouldn't work in DD because the whole point is that it's fast, frantic combat against a bunch of enemies at once.

#21 Posted by ERoBB (160 posts) -

@Doctorchimp said:

@VDay said:

@Doctorchimp: Try actually messing around with stuff like attack timings and incorporating your skills in combos. Also try the prologue portion without picking up the two pawns at the rift stone at the beginning. The demo's not good because it's the same one that they've been using for a while at conventions/shows, so it's designed for someone to jump on and play for 15 minutes. You're playing the tutorial section(prologue) and then a mission that you're slightly over-leveled for. If you actually mess around with it, you'll see the combat can be pretty deep. This is all assuming that you thought the combat was boring because you just went through the whole thing mashing light attack until stuff died.

Also the guy who put up the videos is from OXM UK, not the OXM that gave the game a 6. There's also no actual review out yet from them besides their clever blurb on metacritic which I'm sure they were proud of thinking up.

I mean it's not like I got hit during the demo...or just mash on light attack. Have you played Dark or Demon's Souls? That has some great skillful combat, alright, sorry. This is what I get for coming into a topic called Expectations vs Reality and thinking it was going to be a little bit more than just a hype thread.

A hype thread? Excuse me for having interest in a game. But you're right, it is odd someone with such a grim outlook on a game would spend time discussing it, in a thread about it.

#22 Posted by ERoBB (160 posts) -

I really do wish a story based RPG would adopt a Dark Souls style of combat. Difficult, timing based combat that has a lock on mechanic. Or maybe the next Souls game includes a story. Either way. But I hate the auto-attack of Dragon Age, and I found Amalur to be bland and button mashy. Then there's Skyrim where the combat is more like an obstacle than fun.

#23 Posted by amidnightdreary (2 posts) -

@ERoBB: I think they wanted to make you actively look to others' pawns. If you can make your perfect party you'd never have a reason to use others' pawns because they are quite inferior (they don't level with you and you cannot customize their loadouts).

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