I'm done.

#1 Edited by thebigJ_A (1002 posts) -

Fuck this game. (There, now you know this'll be a rant.)

Seriously, what moron designed this? Who sets up a game so that quests just cancel on you without any warning for no reason, and then the game saves over every slot instantly?? It literally breaks its own stated rules to screw you over!

This isn't the first time it's done it, either. Look, I'm a completionist. I love trying to finish everything. So when i get a bunch of quests in the palace at the same time, I plan on doing them all. The chamberlain guy gives me two quests, handle the investigation, and kill the griffin. At the same time, Fedel (or whatever) wants me to find some papers stolen by a monster/monsters. So, I handle the investigation, finish it no problem, and then go off to clear a bunch of older quests I have. Eventually I decide to get back to doing the palace ones. The first half of the griffin quest done, I polish off most of the other quests I have, since the game hasn't implied any rush, then take the long ass trip to Bluemoon Tower and kill the griffin. Cool scene there where a guy I got something for earlier pops up and helps, yay.

So, feeling triumphant, I go back to the castle to turn it in before heading to the other side of the map to grab Fedel's shit for him. But no. Soon as I turn it in, I see "Quest Cancelled, sucker!" up in the corner, and the game saves. Shit, I think to myself. Now I'll have to do the griffin fight all over. At least I used the Rift Stone right at Bluemoon to get a checkpoint save. I go to load checkpoint, and it brings me back, right AFTER cancelling the quest. That's not a checkpoint, not by the rules of the game. So, I try jumping off the walls till I'm dead. Yup, it very clearly states under Load Checkpoint that that entails Inns and Rift Stones. I try just the regular reload instead, grasping at straws, thinking maybe it'll take me to when last I saved myself. Uh uh. Same spot, "Quest Failed, Loser" up in the corner. BOTH slots. WTF for?

They give you no warning, and it's not even like anything happens that would prevent you completing the other quest! There's no immediate story progress. You don't get immediately assigned a new quest, and that shithead Fedel's just dicking around the castle all day! He even has the nerve to call me an asshole for not doing his quest. I tried, Fedel. I tried.

Screw me out of quests, break your own stated rules, and then insult me for it. Fuck you Dragon's Dogma. I was really starting to like you, even with all the warts. I'm done, though. I'm going back to Dark Souls to await the Artorious dlc. >:(

Sigh.

#2 Posted by phrali (646 posts) -

it's capcom. the shit is not supposed to make sense.

#3 Posted by Joeyoe31 (820 posts) -

Sounds like me and Dota 2. I get buttblasted at that game, but I always come back to it. I'm willing to bet once you get over your little fuss here you'll go back to the game and enjoy it some more.

#4 Posted by Morrow (1823 posts) -

Yeah, I'd wish they gave you a warning when proceeding with a quest that'll cancel other quests.

#5 Posted by Shirogane (3581 posts) -

From what i've seen, doing every quest in one playthrough is the complete wrong way to play this game, they don't want you to do it, and if you do it things get weird and make no sense. Though you do end up like P4 dude with everyone totally in love with you...

#6 Edited by Catarrhal (859 posts) -

There are some questionable design choices, for sure. It's almost as if it were designed to sell strategy guides. I actually went ahead and did just that (i.e. bought the goddamn strategy guide), and still managed to get screwed several times by the mandatory auto-saves. Fortunately, I always had a backup. Still, as a result, I lost out on thousands of Rift Crystals; that right there--the pawn system--is one possible explanation for their save system. Hardly seems like an elegant solution, though.

Personally, when given the option, I always turn off auto-saves. I can't think of any other game in which that is not an option.

---

@Shirogane: I have finished every single quest (except for the very last one), and I don't know what you mean. Everything makes total sense to me. But you're right about one thing: people love me.

Online
#7 Posted by GTCknight (705 posts) -

@Shirogane: You've pretty much nailed it. Dragon's Dogma tries to be very realistic and completing every single quest that comes your way is not realistic. The best advice I can give to anyone is to take your time and choose the quests you like.

@thebigJ_A: Doing story quests will move you further into the story thus, ending any quests you were doing before. It should be noted that it doesn't always do that unless said story quest really moves you to the next part of it. As for the saves. Yeah, I don't what happened there and I do feel for ya. Due to the one save format I'm very careful with how I stop playing (double saves, making sure I'm in the main menu).

#8 Posted by zyn (2591 posts) -

@phrali said:

it's capcom. the shit is not supposed to make sense.

winrar! Pretty much when I saw CAPCOM's name on the box, I avoided it.

#9 Posted by TheHumanDove (2523 posts) -
#10 Posted by Fallen189 (5052 posts) -

I've never had a problem with it, at all. Infact, it's great

#11 Posted by JackSukeru (5964 posts) -

Yeah there should be a warning whenever you are about to complete a quest that will cancel other ones.

Alternatively it could have marked time sensitive quests (like Xenoblade does) and even added a warning in the quest info along the lines of "Cannot be completed after "<quest name>" is initiated/turned in".

@thebigJ_A: I'll say the game is still worth finishing. I'm a completionist too and was seriously pissed about missing out on the second part of the Witchwood, just because I didn't find it before accepting another early storyline quest, I still managed to get over it (what else was there to do? I was already many, many hours in when I found out).

It sucks! put it in the back of your mind and don't let it haunt you, then if you still care about sidequests do them all before handling the main quests, regardless of how impractical that might be.

#12 Posted by thebigJ_A (1002 posts) -

Yeah I'll go back to it. I was just furious and needed to vent. It's just so arbitrary. One quest straight up gives you a time-limit, which is cool. And there's other times, like killing or sparing the Salvation guy, where it's clear I'll be doing certain quests and not others, but at least then I dont see the ones I'll miss.

Here, there's no rhyme or reason. Hell, the wiki even thinks the Fournival quest cancels it. Apparently it's whichever you do second. So, there's no story reason why I can't run and grab the docs for the guy. And to have him insult me for it...

Well, whatever. I guess there's NG+, if I bother with it.

#13 Posted by falserelic (5407 posts) -

I understand your pain I went through it too. At one point I got tired of doing quests because of the traveling, and only started doing the story missions just to finish the game. But then when I finish the game I felt worse.

#14 Posted by redefaulted (2826 posts) -

@thebigJ_A: That's Capcom for you. Have you ever tried a JP only release? I did so back in high-school because it was all the rage and the kind of thought-processes those developers go through is just phenomenal. Not only are we blasted with physic engine supported breasts, but the games are designed to fuck you over until you play the game for countless hours to become better at it.

As I've told my wife, one of the bullet points on the back of all JP games has to be "Knock your head against a wall now for 30 hours!"

#15 Posted by Demoskinos (15135 posts) -

Don't do story missions until you are done with sidequests. Secondly I guarantee you you've already missed more quests than you realize. There's a ton of sidequests that are extremely time sensitive. Secondly, this is a game designed to be played over and over. If you dont get everything the first time then do it the second time around. This sounds like more user error than anything that is thr games fault

#16 Posted by thebigJ_A (1002 posts) -

@Demoskinos said:

Don't do story missions until you are done with sidequests. Secondly I guarantee you you've already missed more quests than you realize. There's a ton of sidequests that are extremely time sensitive. Secondly, this is a game designed to be played over and over. If you dont get everything the first time then do it the second time around. This sounds like more user error than anything that is thr games fault

User error. Right. What error was that, pray tell? "Don't do story missions"? Sure, except the 3/4ths of story missions that don't cancel quests. Yep, It's totally my fault the game saves over both slots, including the slot that claims to be just inns and rift stones.

What was I thinking, how silly of me to insult your pet video game. Can you ever forgive me? I mean, we all can't be as smart and perfect as you.

FFS. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger effect...

#17 Posted by Demoskinos (15135 posts) -
@thebigJ_A

@Demoskinos said:

Don't do story missions until you are done with sidequests. Secondly I guarantee you you've already missed more quests than you realize. There's a ton of sidequests that are extremely time sensitive. Secondly, this is a game designed to be played over and over. If you dont get everything the first time then do it the second time around. This sounds like more user error than anything that is thr games fault

User error. Right. What error was that, pray tell? "Don't do story missions"? Sure, except the 3/4ths of story missions that don't cancel quests. Yep, It's totally my fault the game saves over both slots, including the slot that claims to be just inns and rift stones.

What was I thinking, how silly of me to insult your pet video game. Can you ever forgive me? I mean, we all can't be as smart and perfect as you.

FFS. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger effect...

Overreact much? =/
#18 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Demoskinos said:
@thebigJ_A

@Demoskinos said:

Don't do story missions until you are done with sidequests. Secondly I guarantee you you've already missed more quests than you realize. There's a ton of sidequests that are extremely time sensitive. Secondly, this is a game designed to be played over and over. If you dont get everything the first time then do it the second time around. This sounds like more user error than anything that is thr games fault

User error. Right. What error was that, pray tell? "Don't do story missions"? Sure, except the 3/4ths of story missions that don't cancel quests. Yep, It's totally my fault the game saves over both slots, including the slot that claims to be just inns and rift stones.

What was I thinking, how silly of me to insult your pet video game. Can you ever forgive me? I mean, we all can't be as smart and perfect as you.

FFS. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger effect...

Overreact much? =/
From what I recall they kinda give big hints that if you do this you cant go back. 
#19 Posted by Garfield518 (401 posts) -

The game straight up tells you twice before handing in certain quests that they will cancel others.

As in, you have to confirm (yes/no) twice that you're aware that quests may be canceled.

This is pure user error.

#20 Posted by MonkeyKing1969 (3024 posts) -

I enjoy the game and it makes me feel warm to know it annoys some people. How dull to play a game that doesn't/cannot piss someone off.

#21 Posted by thebigJ_A (1002 posts) -

@Garfield518 said:

The game straight up tells you twice before handing in certain quests that they will cancel others.

As in, you have to confirm (yes/no) twice that you're aware that quests may be canceled.

This is pure user error.

Except for the part where it doesn't.

Here come the fanboys. Take it easy, reasonable people, I'm done.

#22 Posted by Karkarov (3273 posts) -

There is one point in the game where you can advance the story and lose quests where the game doesn't tell you. This is when you complete the quest for Barnaby where you go into the everfall to investigate. Every other time you get to a point where you can lose quests the game very blatantly warns you.

#23 Posted by thomasnash (585 posts) -

^^There was a point where I had a quest to meet some guy in the castle garden at night, and while I was waiting for night to fall I decided to pick up a quest from the adviser guy, and the conspiracy quest was canceled with no warning. I suppose if I'd thought about what the story beats were I would have realised, but I wasn't paying that much attention at that point, and given that they make a pretty big fuss about warning you about that stuff with the guy outside the castle earlier in the game, I was just expecting the same level of warning.

It didn't bother me that much, but a slightly better save system would have been appreciated, I suppose? Like, normally you can keep on top of it by just managing your checkpoints against autosaves, but this time it autosaved and checkpointed at the point the quest was lost. Couldn't tell you why they felt that was necessary...

#24 Posted by Karkarov (3273 posts) -

@thomasnash said:

Like, normally you can keep on top of it by just managing your checkpoints against autosaves, but this time it autosaved and checkpointed at the point the quest was lost. Couldn't tell you why they felt that was necessary...

It is because of a number of issues. First off there is the Ur Dragon which requires real time updates, multiple save files could make this uh.... problematic? Then there is Pawns which are tied to gamertag and are updated every time you rest in an in. With multiple saves per gamertag this could create a syncing issue online, not to mention result in multiple versions of one pawn being online at a time. Then there is the fact that maybe they just wanted to force you to live with the consequences of your choices as a part of game design. I could come up with other reasons to if I sit and thought about it.

Yeah for some people this style of saving sucks... but I can see plenty of reasons for it. Many of them actually technical.

#25 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@zyn said:

@phrali said:

it's capcom. the shit is not supposed to make sense.

winrar! Pretty much when I saw CAPCOM's name on the box, I avoided it.

Damn. My worst fears confirmed. I guess I'm skipping this one.
#26 Posted by thomasnash (585 posts) -

@Karkarov: I didn't have a problem with it for almost the entire game. I'm not sure if I got my point across clearly here: Most of the game I didn't have any problem with there only being one save, and I do understand the reasons of it (although I'm not sure I buy your Ur-dragon reason? I'm no tech-head, but wouldn't damage being dealt to the ur-dragon be sent and re3ceived from the server when you enter the arena? I find it hard to believe that is why I can't go back to try not to lose quests in the story, before it's even possible to fight the Ur-dragon). The autosaving was totally fine, in part because I knew that if I really needed to, I could go back to the last point I rested at an Inn - and synced up my pawn, incidentally.

So it was kind of annoying to lose a quest in a dialogue option with no warning, that it made a checkpoint AND a save. I don't buy that that's interfering with the pawns or anything, because as far as I can tell that's all data that's sent/received at checkpoints. As for wanting me to live with the consequences of my decisions, yeah, obviously that's a reason to have one save file, but in this specific case, I don't feel like it's me living with a decision, so much as not being informed about what I was doing - as it had done before, then having the save system work in a totally different way to the way it had been working.

So yeah, just to clarify what I'm saying:

  1. I didn't have any problems with the save system for 99.9% of the game
  2. There was on moment where I missed a quest because moving the plot forward cancelled it without the character warning me that this would happen
  3. At this moment, it autosaved and checkpointed.
#27 Posted by Karkarov (3273 posts) -

@thomasnash said:

  1. I didn't have any problems with the save system for 99.9% of the game
  2. There was on moment where I missed a quest because moving the plot forward cancelled it without the character warning me that this would happen
  3. At this moment, it autosaved and checkpointed.

I see your points, not even saying you are wrong. Just explaining there are technical reasons for it. Heck same thing happened to me and you can find a post about it somewhere on this board. But still, it does only happen 2 times in the game (without warning) and every other time it makes it very obvious what is going down.

You want a real interesting doozy? Did you know that when you first meet the Duke if you don't stop and go right when leaving the castle to talk to Aelinore it locks you out of both the quests involving her? Meaning literally they will never be available simply because you never stopped to talk to her. It is possible to miss the cue that makes you look at her too, I know I did on my first playthrough. When I say miss I don't mean didn't act on either, I mean, as in it might never happen.

#28 Posted by Marcsman (3286 posts) -

@zyn said:

@phrali said:

it's capcom. the shit is not supposed to make sense.

winrar! Pretty much when I saw CAPCOM's name on the box, I avoided it.

Zing.............

#29 Posted by Bravestar (382 posts) -

@thebigJ_A said:

@Demoskinos said:

Don't do story missions until you are done with sidequests. Secondly I guarantee you you've already missed more quests than you realize. There's a ton of sidequests that are extremely time sensitive. Secondly, this is a game designed to be played over and over. If you dont get everything the first time then do it the second time around. This sounds like more user error than anything that is thr games fault

User error. Right. What error was that, pray tell? "Don't do story missions"? Sure, except the 3/4ths of story missions that don't cancel quests. Yep, It's totally my fault the game saves over both slots, including the slot that claims to be just inns and rift stones.

What was I thinking, how silly of me to insult your pet video game. Can you ever forgive me? I mean, we all can't be as smart and perfect as you.

FFS. Talk about the Dunning-Kruger effect...

no, let's not talk about the dunning-kruger effect(you don't even... nevermind). let's talk about someone becoming extremely hostile when people disagree with him! :D

#30 Posted by thomasnash (585 posts) -

@Karkarov: Yeah you're right, sorry if I came off as a bit defensive!

I never got the second Aelinore quest acutally, although I did the first one. I suspect that's largely to do with not looking hard enough. Where do you get it? I checked after the everfall opened, but you can't go near the castle without being attacked at that point and I figured that meant I shouldn't be there...

#31 Edited by Karkarov (3273 posts) -

@thomasnash said:

@Karkarov: Yeah you're right, sorry if I came off as a bit defensive!

I never got the second Aelinore quest acutally, although I did the first one. I suspect that's largely to do with not looking hard enough. Where do you get it? I checked after the everfall opened, but you can't go near the castle without being attacked at that point and I figured that meant I shouldn't be there...

Yeah that one is sort of tricky. Bear in mind I haven't done it myself yet but considering where I am in my current game... I think it happens after you accept the quest to go to the Greatwall from Aldous but before you actually do it. It also probably revolves around weird crap like going to the castle at night or something equally irritating.

#32 Posted by Tenryu (44 posts) -

It is rather frustrating to suddenly realize you've been denied the desired outcome or direction you were heading for in terms of quest completion, I had a similar issue when trying for some of the rare items, particularly Julian's shield. Here is some information that I discovered while going through a similar scenario that helped me out so I could go back and get the results that I wanted.

Basically your save information is kept track of via two separate methods. You have one that is a temporary state save, aka the auto saves which are usually updated at various intervals while playing. Mainly finishing quests, completing objectives, that sort of thing. There is also a secondary save which is the return to checkpoint. This one is saved when you rest at a inn, or enter a rift.

What this means if, if you really don't like the outcome of an event, or you get screwed over with a result you don't want, use the return to checkpoint save. Unfortunately, this may put you quite a ways further back in completion of what you were doing before the unintended outcomes so keep track of when you make this type of save. I hope that this information is helpful in the event you run into another unfortunate outcome.

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