Mystic Knight/Mage/Sorcerer Question

#1 Posted by aaronBLUEeyes (60 posts) -

When one of these classes enchants a weapon like the Mystic Knight casting Frost Trance for example. How does this affect damage dealt? Is there a chart anywhere on the interwebs? Like do different spells do more or less damage magically and more over does this magick stack with a weapon's magick if it already has it like Eden's Warden for instance? Or does it negate the innate ability of the weapon and replace it with the damage from the spell?

#2 Edited by d0rks (73 posts) -

@aaronBLUEeyes said:

When one of these classes enchants a weapon like the Mystic Knight casting Frost Trance for example. How does this affect damage dealt? Is there a chart anywhere on the interwebs? Like do different spells do more or less damage magically and more over does this magick stack with a weapon's magick if it already has it like Eden's Warden for instance? Or does it negate the innate ability of the weapon and replace it with the damage from the spell?

It's reasonable to assume that only one Elemental enchantment can be 'active' on a weapon at a given time. Elemental enchantments from spells/skills will override/replace any built-in enchantments as well as any enchantments applied prior.

The main issue investigating this is the lack of consistent (UI) feedback, starting with the absence of 'damage numbers'. Furthermore, the game seems mostly content showing the default/unaltered values instead of presenting a (meaningful) report of the actual status quo.

Example scenario: Applying Ice Affinity to player/pawn wielding an Ascalon which has a built-in Holy enchantment, looking at the equipped weapon in the Equipment menu will only show the symbol for Holy under "Element". The sword itself however has all the characteristics of an Ice-enchanted weapon: blue/white glow and (audible) 'frizzling' particles. Based on just these feedback elements, one could come to the conclusion that both must be active because there is evidence (feedback) for both. Although this is certainly an attractive proposition, I'm not convinced it holds true.

Refining the scenario: Mystic Knight with Ascalon and Frost Trance (being the only Elemental enchantment available in the party). Besides dealing a certain Elemental damage type, Elementally enchanted weapons also have a chance of triggering 'special effects', mostly in the form of Status Effects. In our example Ice enchantment gives a chance to freeze enemies, whereas Holy enchantment may cause the wielder to re-gain health when attacking foes (seems to trigger more often when using skills compared to using single/auto-attacks). Knowing this we can (more) easily determine the active enchantment(s) at a given time. Let's visit the guards in 'post-game' Noble Quarter, because they potentially respawn endlessly in small batches and don't necessarily die in one hit even at level 100. Once Frost Trance is applied attacking with Ascalon (Full Moon Slash) will no longer proc 'life on hit', but instead freeze a guard every now and then. The reverse is (not surprisingly) also true, using an Almace with built-in Ice enchantment in combination with Blessed Trance, in unaltered state will occasionally proc freeze/frozen status, but 'life on hit' while Blessed Trance is active.

This limited 'testing' leads to the following:

  • Considering that in the case of 'conflicting' Elemental enchantments we have found no evidence that both are actually in effect on one weapon at the same time, when looking at the 'side-effects' that are inherent to the respective enchantments;
  • Considering that the last applied enchantment appears to take priority over any earlier applied or 'built-in' enchantment, when looking at the 'side-effects' that the weapon may trigger during the time that enchantment is active as well as looking at the visual appearance of the weapon itself;

It's reasonable to assume that only one Elemental enchantment can be 'active' on a weapon at a given time. Elemental enchantments from spells/skills will override/replace any built-in enchantments as well as any enchantments applied prior.

With regards to 'damage', the only meaningful sensible way to look at this is considering the Elemental weakness of various enemies in the game. If you were referring to the parts of skills/spell descriptions such as "(..) extends and amplifies the enchantment, as well as the recipient's Magick.", similar to the above question the lack of menu/UI feedback prevents finding - or even looking for - a meaningful simple decisive answer. I cannot say I'm motivated enough to device a scenario that could show if or how applying a Trance or Affinity will in fact influence the recipient's Magick stat, or what is meant otherwise.

But, what could be interesting is a brief look into 'Pawn vs Arisen' when it comes to using Elemental enchantments.

Classes and Skills:

  • Mage/Sorcerer have both access to the various Elemental "Boons" and "Affinities".
  • Mystic Knight can use the Elemental "Enchanter" and "Trance" skills;
  • The Mystic Knight vocation is limited to player/Arisen only.

Augments:

  • The Perpetuation augment from the Mage class "causes enchantments to persists for a longer period of time". Once unlocked this augment can be used by any vocation, Arisen or pawn alike.

A closer look:

  • Boons and Affinities are single target spells. One thing to note is that for pawns "self" is a valid target, but for the player it behaves as a 'target other-ally' spell. In other words, pawns can enchant themselves, but the player cannot (as far as I know).
  • Enchanter and Trance skills are area-of-effect spells, but not limited to party members. Passer-by pawns can end up with enchanted weapons as well.
  • The effect of Perpetuation appears to be different for Boons/Affinities on the one hand and Enchanter/Trance skills on the other. In both cases it seems to not be 30% either*.

* Quick breakdown of Duration of various enchantments, for the sake of this table Boons and Enchanter are considered 'Tier 1' and Affinities and Trance are considered 'Tier 2'. Times were recorded using (mechanical) stopwatch and the displayed numbers are (rounded) averages of at least 20 samples.

VocationTier 1Tier 1 + PerpetuationGainTier 2Tier 2 + PerpetuationGain
Mystic Knight30s40s+33%45s60s (1m)+33%
Mage / Sorcerer40s50s+25%120s (2m)150s (2m30s)+25%

Either way the choice between player or pawn operated enchantments should be highly influenced by the desire of control and the Arisen's vocation choice, or rather if you play as a Mystic Knight or not.

  • Mystic Knights are in the unique position to exactly dictate the Elemental enchantment-ness of the entire party, the only drawback is the relatively short duration compared to Mage/Sorcerer applied enchantments.
  • A player Mage/Sorcerer has the advantage of hand-picking which pawn should receive what enchantment at what time, but that's time spent not doing damage. In addition, they (or at least I) are not able to enchant themselves.
  • Leaving the enchanting to pawns is only more efficient if the the number of different Elemental enchantments is low (two or less) and the pawns are educated enough to know when to use which.
#3 Posted by Bravestar (382 posts) -

the amount of additional damage depends on the monster(sometimes it even makes your weapons weaker against certain monsters). check out the dragon's dogma wiki for some % lists.

in general fire is the best enchantment for most of the regular monsters.

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