After approximately fourteen years of development, the heavily infamous sequel to Duke Nukem 3D was finally released, in which the macho Duke must damper yet another alien invasion.
hrmph, i see nothing wrong with portraying rape victims as dumb, vapid sluts that should be apologetic for being stupid enough to get raped. mayhaps you people should be less sensitive. why yes i am a white, upper-middle class male. how did you know?
Please show me one quote or highlight the section in the Quick look where either the game or anyone ever said anything remotely like this.
If I were a betting man, I would say that they were referring to the twins comment that they would "have the weight off in a week." The implication being that the fact that they were heavier was less important than that they had been impregnated by aliens.
hrmph, i see nothing wrong with portraying rape victims as dumb, vapid sluts that should be apologetic for being stupid enough to get raped. mayhaps you people should be less sensitive. why yes i am a white, upper-middle class male. how did you know?
Please show me one quote or highlight the section in the Quick look where either the game or anyone ever said anything remotely like this.
If I were a betting man, I would say that they were referring to the twins comment that they would "have the weight off in a week." The implication being that the fact that they were heavier was less important than that they had been impregnated by aliens.
I missed that. I can not argue with it.
I still don't think it's anywhere near that big of a deal though. It is, to my mind, at worst, a lame joke.
hrmph, i see nothing wrong with portraying rape victims as dumb, vapid sluts that should be apologetic for being stupid enough to get raped. mayhaps you people should be less sensitive. why yes i am a white, upper-middle class male. how did you know?
Please show me one quote or highlight the section in the Quick look where either the game or anyone ever said anything remotely like this.
If I were a betting man, I would say that they were referring to the twins comment that they would "have the weight off in a week." The implication being that the fact that they were heavier was less important than that they had been impregnated by aliens.
I missed that. I can not argue with it. I still don't think it's anywhere near that big of a deal though. It is, to my mind, at worst, a lame joke.
I'm inclined to agree to a point. What puts it over the line from a tasteless joke to what some would find offensive is the combination of the aforementioned line from the twins and that interactive prompt Jeff showed. The fact that you can slap alien tits around and Duke makes (characteristically) crass comments while women cry and vomit in pain all around you is really fucked.
All I know is that scene in the QL made me feel a bit sick, in a way that grotesquely murdering something in a video game never could. I guess it's because something as serious as rape more easily conveys emotion than death when coming from not a wholly realistic source.
I guess when games get to the point where I blow someone up and see singed fat, fractured bones, and organs strewn about I'll be put off. But they don't: As of now you get a little cloud of red, possibly a silly explosion of unidentifiable chunks. It's a caricature. Meanwhile, a woman sobbing - rape or no - is something that relies very little on visual queues.
. I guess when games get to the point where I blow someone up and see singed fat, fractured bones, and organs strewn about I'll be put off. But they don't:
@DeeGee: That still falls into the silly explosion category for me. Though it often made me give a long, childish "ew" when it happened.
It would straight up have to be photo-realistic for me, since I have a strong distinction between real and not. However, my mother would look at Fallout 3 and be absolutely appalled.
@DeeGee: That still falls into the silly explosion category for me. Though it often made me give a long, childish "ew" when it happened. It would straight up have to be photo-realistic for me, since I have a strong distinction between real and not. However, my mother would look at Fallout 3 and be absolutely appalled.
So you're saying the violence is only okay because it looks fake? But on the other hand, females being consumed by an alien life form and becoming impregnated is far too realistic so it's sickening? I don't understand, this is a video game, where ALIENS impregnated women(You don't even see them doing anything to them) If we seen actual rape, yes I would see the problem... but not this.
Alright, guys, guys, but wait, I can MURDER and BEAT regular innocent women in GTA IV. I can do that in a ton of other open world games. These acts have NO context in the story, and no justifiable reason as to why I can do it, but I can.
*In comes duke*: "OMG GUIES WOMEN ARE GETTING RAPED BY ALIENS IN CONTEXT WITH THE STORYLINE :((((((((((((((."
Much like using power armor, being a hypocrite is for pussies.
Seeing the part in the quick look made me feel just terrible. It was fucked up and a bit disturbing and I didn't expect that out of Duke from the tone of the trailers.
i find it incredibly strange someone could find any of that scene disturbing in any way, but that certainly wasn't a rape scene, there may be implied rape and stu[id dialouge that goes on after it, but this isnt irreversible. Jim Sterling is a tool who loves to stir up his own controversy. I will be clear though while i dont understand how that scene is disturbing, im not like other here who find someone a pansie or a bitch if they do find that scene offensive. DNF doesn't deserve this topic in any way though.
@Jace: To use your GTA analogy, I think it's the lack of context for your acts of random violence that makes it acceptable. It's not the story that's pushing you to do these things, but you're own choice. It is the player taking precedent over the character, and therefore the actions are removed from context and characterization.
In this case, not only is this scene an abrupt tonal shift (or hiccup, really), but Duke's comments seem out or character. This is a man who loves babes, and to be so callous in the sight of their suffering seems incredibly un-Duke-like. The subject matter of the scene combined with how jarring the tone and reactions are is what's getting people, I think. Flawed execution, basically.
Kind of fucked up, but, then again, it looks like every single thing about the game is. I didn't find it sickening but I did think it was a pretty terrible attempt at humour.
There's no rape. It's just women attached to ceilings and walls in dark areas that moan and cry because they're harboring aliens inside them. Same concept as Alien.
Duke Nukem 3D had similar situations. That being said, it was defiantly less graphic. That whole sequence in the QL was just...bad...I couldn't tell if the thing was supposed to be a failed joke, or just something that's trying to get attention for the sake of attention. The problem is, neither of those hypothetical options are good. It just comes off as just weird and out-of-place.
Yeah, that was kinda fucked up. It was probably intended as a joke, but they kinda fucked up.
@Pinworm45: I think demoskinos was referring to the mental distress one feels after a stressing event. I believe that rape victims tend to get PTSD after said rape. But, demoskinos did himself a disservice in equating that type of PTSD with the one felt by his mother's friend. I'm not an expert in stress disorders, but I would imagine that they differ patient to patient.
There's no rape. It's just women attached to ceilings and walls in dark areas that moan and cry because they're harboring aliens inside them. Same concept as Alien.
There's no rape. It's just women attached to ceilings and walls in dark areas that moan and cry because they're harboring aliens inside them. Same concept as Alien.
^^...
That must mean..... Alien has rape in it!!! CLASSLESS AND DISGUSTING!
@Jace: To use your GTA analogy, I think it's the lack of context for your acts of random violence that makes it acceptable. It's not the story that's pushing you to do these things, but you're own choice. It is the player taking precedent over the character, and therefore the actions are removed from context and characterization. In this case, not only is this scene an abrupt tonal shift (or hiccup, really), but Duke's comments seem out or character. This is a man who loves babes, and to be so callous in the sight of their suffering seems incredibly un-Duke-like. The subject matter of the scene combined with how jarring the tone and reactions are is what's getting people, I think. Flawed execution, basically.
I would argue the exact opposite. I think it's the fact that GTA makes it an OPTION to murder women could be seen as worse. And further more, in GTA, the player murders women. In DUKE, he is combating the aliens that have the women. For those who aren't logically inclined, the point that I'm making here is that in GTA the player is responsible, in Duke, the enemies are.
So, keeping that in mind, to argue that GTA is somehow a better game morally speaking, is ludicrous.
BUT, FORGET ALL OF THAT. Why? Because at the end of the day IT'S A FUCKING VIDEO GAME.
Just watched the entire video. Is Jim referring to the pods on the ground as penises? Because those are definitely not penises.
EDIT: And it seems that people are missing the line that Duke says right after the twins explode. Something like "Damn that queen bitch mother of yours, she's gonna pay." so maybe Duke was trying to lighten the mood or something. Hell if I know, he might not have thought through the whole situation. Fuck it, it's a video game.
Okay, I just wanna say for the record the Rape Joke that Duke makes about the Holsom twins I'm completely fine with now. 5 minutes into the game now and they have instantly became two of the most annoying characters ever.
@neozeke: Yeah, I do believe I mis-read his comment. Still, as you said mental stress and damage is still a thing that rape victims go through. I simply brought up what I did because I thought he was talking about killing and not rape thus the comparison to a solider having to kill in war and getting PTSD.
@Pinworm45: Yeah, sorry. I mis-read your statement. I would have fixed it earlier but I was quite literally running out the door to work after I typed that. Apologies sir. =)
The fact of the matter is Duke is from a time that has passed. The way gender is portrayed in films and the media has changed a lot since Duke Nukem 3D. As Jeff stated if they made Duke into a caricature of a late 80s/90s action hero like McBain from the Simpsons, things would've made more sense in modern times. They failed to show Duke's sexism as ironic and ultimately it just came off as mean spirited and depraved.
There is no "rape" Jim Sterling the loveable fat fuck that he is just wanted to stir the pot on this one. The girls are essentialy redesigned versions of this... Duke does make a "You're Fucked" joke to the Holsom twins and while being crass its far from being the worst thing ever as the holsom twins are not exactly played up to be endearing characters at all. Nothing to be excited about at all.
I vote for this post being the most reasonable and
There's no rape. It's just women attached to ceilings and walls in dark areas that moan and cry because they're harboring aliens inside them. Same concept as Alien.
This is what Dan O'Bannon, the writer of Alien, had to say about metaphors for rape in Alien.
"This is a movie about alien interspecies rape"
O'Bannon felt that the symbolism of "homosexual oral rape" was an effective means of discomforting male viewers.
@Demoskinos: Ah I see, well nonetheless, good on you for bringing it up. I feel that it is a topic that should be discussed in here if the discussion is going the way of "What's worse, rape or murder"
It's so sad to see people caring about this, given the actions a player can take in different games. Like....god damnit, it's a video game, there are far worse scenarios in other games. Either be consistent and go full Jack Thompson(full retard), or shut the fuck up.
If this is indeed talking about that one scene in the quick look then I'll agree it was kinda unsettling to watch however I wouldn't get up in arms over it.
half of this thread is people calling each other sociopaths for their opinions on whether murder or rape is worse. one quarter is saying jim sterling is fat and a loser for making false controversy one quarter is restating how DNF is not funny
this thread breakdown brought to you by Helimocopter "Fuck Y'all, Imma Keep Postin'!"
There is no "rape" Jim Sterling the loveable fat fuck that he is just wanted to stir the pot on this one. The girls are essentialy redesigned versions of this... Duke does make a "You're Fucked" joke to the Holsom twins and while being crass its far from being the worst thing ever as the holsom twins are not exactly played up to be endearing characters at all. Nothing to be excited about at all.
I vote for this post being the most reasonable and /thread
This.
I'm pretty concerned about the reviewer that has such a pretty twisted mind that he comes up with that terrible rape-scenario when he sees those alien-victims (see, not rape-victims!)
Christ, there really are some whiny self-righteous cunts on this forum.
Considering Jeff basically called the game disgusting, stupid, and the humor "sociopathic" in his review I suppose he's also a "whiny self righteous cunt" now. People can't just think the humor is incredibly bad and just really dumb, no, we obviously all have to be moralizing.
@DeeGee: That still falls into the silly explosion category for me. Though it often made me give a long, childish "ew" when it happened. It would straight up have to be photo-realistic for me, since I have a strong distinction between real and not. However, my mother would look at Fallout 3 and be absolutely appalled.
So you're saying the violence is only okay because it looks fake? But on the other hand, females being consumed by an alien life form and becoming impregnated is far too realistic so it's sickening? I don't understand, this is a video game, where ALIENS impregnated women(You don't even see them doing anything to them) If we seen actual rape, yes I would see the problem... but not this.
What, should I not find the thought of a hellish beast raping a woman for days on end horrible? I don't really care how realistic the actual circumstance is. My imagination can do most of the heavy lifting in more intellectual issues like story, but my eyes are the only thing that's feeding me the image, and that image is inherently flawed in all games. A pig-cop being blown to smithereens relies entirely upon moment to moment visual information, the sound and implication of rape incites the intellectual part of my brain and surpasses the flawed visual image of the actual act that DNF is trying to provide me with....
@Marokai: Well on equal grounds can't us DNF fans appreciate the game without people saying you have to be a sociopath to enjoy this game? I'm not going to shit on anyone who doesn't like the game but for christ sakes theres actually people that ya know... like the game?
Not sure about other DNF players but I dont' exactly feel the impulse to Rape, Murder or burn the house down after playing DNF. Mental sanity seems to be in check.
@Napalm: And I find it offensive that you followers have let Jeff Gerstmann and Ryan Davis influence your opinion so much. I don't care one little bit what you say but I KNOW that if they loved this game a vast majority of you morons would as well. There have been far FAR more disturbing games come along that got MUCH higher scores on this very site and I don't recall ever reading one damn word about them because the almight Gerstmann thought it was cool.
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