Dynasty Warriors... 4?

Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -

Last night I spent some time looking up information on the latest Dynasty Warriors, number 7, listening to Lu Bu's driving metal track while my significant other leveled Xiao Qiao (more like "syiao chiow". Pinyin takes a bit of getting used to) enough to unlock some costumes in our copy of Dynasty Warriors *4*. We've both been playing the hell out of DW 4 since I randomly broke it out a week ago, using guides to unlock new areas, characters, weapons, and items.

Picking the game up again I realize that there were a lot of mechanisms I pretty much didn't know existed before. Instead of there just being a button-mashing single attack, the charge attack is pretty much integral to high-difficulty play, each combination causing a different effect (knocking guys in the air, jumping in the air yourself to slam someone down, area attacks, ranged attacks, quick movement attacks, all connected to specific characters).  There's strategy in which item loadout you use, where you can basically create a character build on every new map that will emphasize charge attacks, musou attacks (which are sorta like zaps in older games where you're temporarily invincible), defense, offense, and special effects like ongoing damage, damage through blocking, freezing, and insta-kill for low-level targets. 

The unlocks are damned picky in places too, but they're much more fun than most collection/unlock systems out there because each task feels a bit different. I just wish it was a bit more obvious what tasks did what. Even if I'd read the mega-epic this game is loosely based on, I doubt I'd be able to remember niggling details that would somehow give me better in-game magical powers, even if any of these things are more than cursory references to events in the stories. You basically need a guide, or be very meticulous in your explorations of certain levels. I wouldn't have known without reading in a FAQ that the order you choose some stages in affects what MIGHT happen later. It's a lot of variables to keep track of, and we're basically helpless to figure out many of them without the guides we downloaded.

These weird unlocks and alternate battle sequences actually do a better job of player choice than most modern games, just because you make these decisions in the middle of battle. It would be much better, though, if the consequences of your decisions were a bit clearer.



The Inevitable Comparison of Versions


Reading about DW 7 I find myself excited that the franchise seems a bit renewed, at least for most of the people still willing ot take a look. Yet Koei's style of experimenting with game modes and systems still feels weird to me. I feel like a fundamentally sound game exists somewhere within the span of versions we've seen, rather than nestled perfectly into any one game.

For instance, there was a system in DW3 where you would pick up weapons with different statistics. If you completed a level you got to see what sort of stat boosts it gave you, and these would all be random, sorta like finding rare loot in Diablo (another high-body count action game that people praise about as much as people denigrate DW). Beyond expanding this a bit to make loot something you scoop up by the bucket instead of rarely get, just having weapons that had interesting stats that encouraged different styles of play would be pretty fun to have.  By comparison, DW4's system simply has weapon levels. The more experience you get with a weapon, the closer you get to leveling it, which gives you higher attack power, and that's pretty much it.

DW4 is a vast improvement over the prior 2 games' character disappearance, where too many dudes on the screen means some people start becoming selectively invisible to prevent slowdown. It still happens, though, and it has me wishing it would choose to prioritize who disappears based on rank, since the higher rank means the deadlier opponent. When there are a hundred friendlies swarming on Cao Cao (pronounced tsao tsao, sounds less stupid that way), I want to be able to see him too so they don't kill-steal on me (kill stealing is why I don't bother with bodyguards anymore).

The dueling system in DW4, while sometimes a relief when I'm outnumbered, is often more of a pain than it's worth. I could lose the entire game if I lose the match, and if I decline to fight or fight to a draw, I lose morale for the entire army.  It doesn't help that the automatic health recuperation that NPC officers get also happens in the duel arena, so that they have a distinct advantage over human players if they're allowed to regenerate (not to mention that they don't have to wrestle with the camera like I do).

What I love in DW4 is its lack of formal structure, and willingness to embrace stories that totally defy both the history of the period and the pseudohistory of the fictional legends. At least in free mode, I can play as whomever I like one whichever [available] side I wish to choose in a given battle. And if I ever manage to unlock the elephant saddle, allowing me to start any level with an elephant mount I can use to squish people, you know I'm going to do it. Musou (read: campaign) mode doesn't allow that, though, but it makes me wonder what sorts of stories you could tell if, say, Cao Ren had long ago defected to Shu because he felt Shu was more likely to "end the chaos" than his own noble house would.

(And as I mention in the comments, the writers make an interesting comment about historical relativism. Whenever you're playing for a certain faction, the descriptions are often tailored to fit that faction, such that you're always painted as the goodguys, suggesting that somewhere in the middle lies the truth. Even jerk extraordinaire Dong Zhuo is suppressing pretenders to the throne, and other people start the fires that burn down the capital city, rather than it being directly his fault as in all other versions. The original Romance stories even leaned toward one side of the conflict, making the others look corrupt or evil, probably to enhance the drama and give the reader a side to root for, if not to reflect the tastes of the times.)

As an appreciator of the series if not a die-hard fan, of course I drool over the newer versions' enhanced graphics and flirtation with strategic modes. DW 7's introduction of the Jin faction, which wound up controlling most of ancient China after the wars until new schisms developed, is exciting. I know most of these characters were either legendary or didn't exist at all in history, but I like that there are enough characters that you get a different attitude and feel for each of them. You can almost imagine side stories for them, even though DW is primarily about action and not so much role-playing.


Role-Playing, You Say?


I know that Dynasty Warriors 7 has a skill system that lets you customize character development, and it lets you use any weapon pretty much regardless of character, yet I think the more in-depth customization might be the way to go with these games. You could still have characters with unique back stories and connection with the legends, but the ability to affect just how they develop might bring in people who, sometimes rightly, criticize the series for lacking depth. You DO often feel like you're repeating yourself when you pick a new character who also uses a spear, and it would be nice to see a bit stronger emphasis on individual stories, even if that means cutting down on the character count a bit.

I don't think there's any one right method, but I can imagine some interesting directions this series could take that might make it even more rewarding for people like me who are already wired to enjoy pretty much any game set in ancient China as long as it's playable.

There are plenty of stories in there that could actually make a pretty cool role-playing game, like an actual RPG, with many of these characters being NPCs you could interact with. Reading up on the historical version of one of my favorite characters to play in Dynasty Warriors, Huang Gai (or dude who looks like Mr. T with the big club who kicks you when he's tired of bashing you over the head) was said to have been a scholar and official who felt himself a better military leader than bureaucrat, so he allowed two subordinates to take over the day-to-day tasks of administration. He was feared by the staff, but he said that he wouldn't whip them or beat them should they make mistakes, to try to allay their fears. Yet after their fear of Huang Gai wore off, they began to shirk in their duties to the point where things were becoming disasterous. Huang Gai returned, saw the ruins they left the administration in, invited them to a meal, and said he was disappointed in their abuses of power, but that he wouldn't whip them or beat them for their infractions. He chose to have them executed instead.

I imagine stories like these might not sound heroic to some, but I don't think selling a worldview based on Confucian ideals like honoring your station in life would be too hard as long as the outlook was properly sold to the player early on. 


Cue Pop Music and Characters Drinking Wine in a Garden


It's easy to slag on Dynasty Warriors for its dogged insistence on only incremental changes that feel more like experiments than evolution, but I just can't help but love the game. I have too many good memories, when playing older versions of DW, of close battles, grabbing victory from the jaws of defeat at the last moment, and we both have experienced those moments with this game too, like the time my significant other was about a minute away from failure before finally defeating the boss, or where I managed to unlock a top-level weapon by fighting for my character's life in a swarm of aggressive enemies, nailing some poor dude before he could run to safety then murdering an old man before my boss came to chastise me for taking so long. 

So, yeah, I like Dynasty Warriors, even if I think it still has room for improvement. I guess I'll go back to pining for DW 7. Check here for a cool site on DW, and other games set in the Three Kingdoms period, as well as the extensive lore behind it.
#1 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -

Last night I spent some time looking up information on the latest Dynasty Warriors, number 7, listening to Lu Bu's driving metal track while my significant other leveled Xiao Qiao (more like "syiao chiow". Pinyin takes a bit of getting used to) enough to unlock some costumes in our copy of Dynasty Warriors *4*. We've both been playing the hell out of DW 4 since I randomly broke it out a week ago, using guides to unlock new areas, characters, weapons, and items.

Picking the game up again I realize that there were a lot of mechanisms I pretty much didn't know existed before. Instead of there just being a button-mashing single attack, the charge attack is pretty much integral to high-difficulty play, each combination causing a different effect (knocking guys in the air, jumping in the air yourself to slam someone down, area attacks, ranged attacks, quick movement attacks, all connected to specific characters).  There's strategy in which item loadout you use, where you can basically create a character build on every new map that will emphasize charge attacks, musou attacks (which are sorta like zaps in older games where you're temporarily invincible), defense, offense, and special effects like ongoing damage, damage through blocking, freezing, and insta-kill for low-level targets. 

The unlocks are damned picky in places too, but they're much more fun than most collection/unlock systems out there because each task feels a bit different. I just wish it was a bit more obvious what tasks did what. Even if I'd read the mega-epic this game is loosely based on, I doubt I'd be able to remember niggling details that would somehow give me better in-game magical powers, even if any of these things are more than cursory references to events in the stories. You basically need a guide, or be very meticulous in your explorations of certain levels. I wouldn't have known without reading in a FAQ that the order you choose some stages in affects what MIGHT happen later. It's a lot of variables to keep track of, and we're basically helpless to figure out many of them without the guides we downloaded.

These weird unlocks and alternate battle sequences actually do a better job of player choice than most modern games, just because you make these decisions in the middle of battle. It would be much better, though, if the consequences of your decisions were a bit clearer.



The Inevitable Comparison of Versions


Reading about DW 7 I find myself excited that the franchise seems a bit renewed, at least for most of the people still willing ot take a look. Yet Koei's style of experimenting with game modes and systems still feels weird to me. I feel like a fundamentally sound game exists somewhere within the span of versions we've seen, rather than nestled perfectly into any one game.

For instance, there was a system in DW3 where you would pick up weapons with different statistics. If you completed a level you got to see what sort of stat boosts it gave you, and these would all be random, sorta like finding rare loot in Diablo (another high-body count action game that people praise about as much as people denigrate DW). Beyond expanding this a bit to make loot something you scoop up by the bucket instead of rarely get, just having weapons that had interesting stats that encouraged different styles of play would be pretty fun to have.  By comparison, DW4's system simply has weapon levels. The more experience you get with a weapon, the closer you get to leveling it, which gives you higher attack power, and that's pretty much it.

DW4 is a vast improvement over the prior 2 games' character disappearance, where too many dudes on the screen means some people start becoming selectively invisible to prevent slowdown. It still happens, though, and it has me wishing it would choose to prioritize who disappears based on rank, since the higher rank means the deadlier opponent. When there are a hundred friendlies swarming on Cao Cao (pronounced tsao tsao, sounds less stupid that way), I want to be able to see him too so they don't kill-steal on me (kill stealing is why I don't bother with bodyguards anymore).

The dueling system in DW4, while sometimes a relief when I'm outnumbered, is often more of a pain than it's worth. I could lose the entire game if I lose the match, and if I decline to fight or fight to a draw, I lose morale for the entire army.  It doesn't help that the automatic health recuperation that NPC officers get also happens in the duel arena, so that they have a distinct advantage over human players if they're allowed to regenerate (not to mention that they don't have to wrestle with the camera like I do).

What I love in DW4 is its lack of formal structure, and willingness to embrace stories that totally defy both the history of the period and the pseudohistory of the fictional legends. At least in free mode, I can play as whomever I like one whichever [available] side I wish to choose in a given battle. And if I ever manage to unlock the elephant saddle, allowing me to start any level with an elephant mount I can use to squish people, you know I'm going to do it. Musou (read: campaign) mode doesn't allow that, though, but it makes me wonder what sorts of stories you could tell if, say, Cao Ren had long ago defected to Shu because he felt Shu was more likely to "end the chaos" than his own noble house would.

(And as I mention in the comments, the writers make an interesting comment about historical relativism. Whenever you're playing for a certain faction, the descriptions are often tailored to fit that faction, such that you're always painted as the goodguys, suggesting that somewhere in the middle lies the truth. Even jerk extraordinaire Dong Zhuo is suppressing pretenders to the throne, and other people start the fires that burn down the capital city, rather than it being directly his fault as in all other versions. The original Romance stories even leaned toward one side of the conflict, making the others look corrupt or evil, probably to enhance the drama and give the reader a side to root for, if not to reflect the tastes of the times.)

As an appreciator of the series if not a die-hard fan, of course I drool over the newer versions' enhanced graphics and flirtation with strategic modes. DW 7's introduction of the Jin faction, which wound up controlling most of ancient China after the wars until new schisms developed, is exciting. I know most of these characters were either legendary or didn't exist at all in history, but I like that there are enough characters that you get a different attitude and feel for each of them. You can almost imagine side stories for them, even though DW is primarily about action and not so much role-playing.


Role-Playing, You Say?


I know that Dynasty Warriors 7 has a skill system that lets you customize character development, and it lets you use any weapon pretty much regardless of character, yet I think the more in-depth customization might be the way to go with these games. You could still have characters with unique back stories and connection with the legends, but the ability to affect just how they develop might bring in people who, sometimes rightly, criticize the series for lacking depth. You DO often feel like you're repeating yourself when you pick a new character who also uses a spear, and it would be nice to see a bit stronger emphasis on individual stories, even if that means cutting down on the character count a bit.

I don't think there's any one right method, but I can imagine some interesting directions this series could take that might make it even more rewarding for people like me who are already wired to enjoy pretty much any game set in ancient China as long as it's playable.

There are plenty of stories in there that could actually make a pretty cool role-playing game, like an actual RPG, with many of these characters being NPCs you could interact with. Reading up on the historical version of one of my favorite characters to play in Dynasty Warriors, Huang Gai (or dude who looks like Mr. T with the big club who kicks you when he's tired of bashing you over the head) was said to have been a scholar and official who felt himself a better military leader than bureaucrat, so he allowed two subordinates to take over the day-to-day tasks of administration. He was feared by the staff, but he said that he wouldn't whip them or beat them should they make mistakes, to try to allay their fears. Yet after their fear of Huang Gai wore off, they began to shirk in their duties to the point where things were becoming disasterous. Huang Gai returned, saw the ruins they left the administration in, invited them to a meal, and said he was disappointed in their abuses of power, but that he wouldn't whip them or beat them for their infractions. He chose to have them executed instead.

I imagine stories like these might not sound heroic to some, but I don't think selling a worldview based on Confucian ideals like honoring your station in life would be too hard as long as the outlook was properly sold to the player early on. 


Cue Pop Music and Characters Drinking Wine in a Garden


It's easy to slag on Dynasty Warriors for its dogged insistence on only incremental changes that feel more like experiments than evolution, but I just can't help but love the game. I have too many good memories, when playing older versions of DW, of close battles, grabbing victory from the jaws of defeat at the last moment, and we both have experienced those moments with this game too, like the time my significant other was about a minute away from failure before finally defeating the boss, or where I managed to unlock a top-level weapon by fighting for my character's life in a swarm of aggressive enemies, nailing some poor dude before he could run to safety then murdering an old man before my boss came to chastise me for taking so long. 

So, yeah, I like Dynasty Warriors, even if I think it still has room for improvement. I guess I'll go back to pining for DW 7. Check here for a cool site on DW, and other games set in the Three Kingdoms period, as well as the extensive lore behind it.
#2 Posted by JJWeatherman (14483 posts) -

Dynasty Warriors 4 is the shit. That's the game that got me hooked on the franchise back in the good ole days. I'm a bit burnt out lately though. Last one I palyed was 6 empires, and I didn't play much of it. I did S-rank 5 Empires though. This is almost making me want to play 6.

#3 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -
@JJWeatherman: From what I've read, 6 departs quite a ways from what the games before had done. I guess it was the first newgen release or something? From the fan reviews of 7 I can see they weren't big fans of 6, but I know almost nothing about it myself.  I know that I'm not much of a stickler for history unless they happen to tell a good story with it, since I like games that let you explore alternatives. Also I'm not very familiar with the renbu system, and I never did by any Extreme Legends or Empire titles so I'm not sure what those add.

If you do go back to 6 and write up your impressions, though, let me know.
#4 Posted by Rowr (5236 posts) -

As i recall 5 was released on the new gen, but it was old gen engine with crisper textures. It wasnt a huge step up from 4, not as much as 4 was to 3.


Great casual game to play with a friend or girlfriend in particular. I'm pretty excited to get 7, I really think it helped to skip on 6 so i'm not burnt out on it. I've learnt to ignore reviews for dynasty warriors as there seems to be a huge amount of people who have an unreasonable hate for it. I'm no casual gamer myself.

I went as far as too pick up the books, they can be a little tricky to get into but as long as you can keep up with which character is which its pretty great, I found it really opened up my eyes to the concepts of honour and superstition, and how they may have perceived it in that time period in china, not too mention the culture of turbulence with the divided country. It is a "Romantic" history, but it was written based on events in a time only a few decades later.
#5 Edited by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -
@Rowr:  I was going off the memory of a comment where someone said it was using 4's engine, but the timeframe seemed weird to me. Should have cross-checked before I said that, though it seems like it was released late in the older consoles' lifespans. Maybe you're thinking the backwards compatibility of the new consoles? Says here there's a "special" edition ported to the current generation.

The Romance was written quite a long time after the original events (like a millennium) but it was based on histories that were written pretty close to the time of the subject. Who knows how biased the inidividual historical accounts were, but that's what keeps historians busy, trying to figure out what actually happened. There's a version of the Romance there now with Chinese and English side-by-side, but it's a bit too expensive to justify even if I might get more of a kick out of it (would help to see the Chinese characters that correspond to the romanized names).  As far as it being historically accurate, I've read it has a lot better fidelity than similar historical Romances have been, though it seems to sympathize with Liu Bei the most, but if I was really concerned with the history there are other works that might be better for that.

Something I forgot to mention about DW4 was that I like that, even though it does point to the Romance's tone more than I remember 3 doing (Cao Cao as the relatively evil guy, Liu Bei as a friend to the people), each campaign side you take tells its story through the lens of the ruler of that side. Even Dong Zhuo, who is pretty much known as a right bastard historically, talks about eliminating usurpers, and it is the allies that set fire in-game to the capital city beyond Hu Lao Gate, not Dong Zhuo.
#6 Posted by Hailinel (22704 posts) -
@Rowr said:
" As i recall 5 was released on the new gen, but it was old gen engine with crisper textures. It wasnt a huge step up from 4, not as much as 4 was to 3.

Great casual game to play with a friend or girlfriend in particular. I'm pretty excited to get 7, I really think it helped to skip on 6 so i'm not burnt out on it. I've learnt to ignore reviews for dynasty warriors as there seems to be a huge amount of people who have an unreasonable hate for it. I'm no casual gamer myself.

I went as far as too pick up the books, they can be a little tricky to get into but as long as you can keep up with which character is which its pretty great, I found it really opened up my eyes to the concepts of honour and superstition, and how they may have perceived it in that time period in china, not too mention the culture of turbulence with the divided country. It is a "Romantic" history, but it was written based on events in a time only a few decades later.
"
DW5 was the last game in the series from the PS2/Xbox generation.  The first proper DW after that on the new generation platforms was DW6.

Dynasty Warriors 7 is a fantastic game.  The story modes are far more focused on the factions rather than the characters, making each story feel connected to one another, rather than serving as an amalgam of odd alternate histories in which each of the three kingdoms are able to unite China.  The Jin storyline also paints a new portrait of the other factions, particularly Shu, as the nobility of the previous generation gives way to a zealous desire.  The alternate histories and goofier sides of the series are however, still represented well in the conquest mode.  The mode also features a full trivia side-game that tests the player's knowledge of the era's history through the perspective of the novel.  It is also surprisingly complex, as they go deep into minutiae of Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and at times reference other texts and sources.

As for Dynasty Warriors 4, that game still features one of my all-time favorite moments in the series.  While playing as Liu Bei in the Nanman Campaign, the only defeat condition is if Liu Bei is defeated, meaning that I didn't have to concern myself with coming to the rescue of my allies.  The is also set up so that you're at a constant disadvantage, as the heat and atmosphere of the stage is constantly dropping the Shu army's morale.  So it wasn't long at all until I was swimming in a sea of Nanman soldiers and all of the spawn points had been taken over by the enemy.  The minimap in the corner was completely red.  The game features pretty generous time limits, as I recall, and yet it nearly came down to the wire for me as I racked up multiple thousands of kills before I was finally able to take out Meng Huo.  My god, it was exhilarating.
#7 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -
@Hailinel:  Yeah, that down-to-the-wire play is what people who reduce this game to its straightforward controls don't quite understand, and it's stories like that that I remember long after I've forgotten games that have more detailed mechanics. We had a few incidents like that just recently, where my SO was near the time limit trying to beat a stubborn enemy, and I was almost at 0HP and managed to pull off a victory before my own lazy commander got his ass killed.

That, and we both laugh whenever "Lu Bu has come to destroy us!"

Since I've read more about DW7, I've read some complaints about Conquest Mode, that it's a bit of a grind fest. I guess it's more fun to unlock characters this way than just hitting milestones, and I imagine I'd enjoy the trivia game just because it'd give me more excuses to read up on stuff, but I'm betting there might be a better way to do it, maybe with more interesting, interconnected stories or something. Maybe that's where they could do the ahistorical weirdness.  If we get a current gen system I'll definitely get 7, though. Looks fun (and mind-blowing considering I'm used to 4's graphics, although I like it when corpses just disappear. I feel bad enough for them already).
#8 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11001 posts) -

I've never played a Dynasty Warriors game and I don't think I'll ever need to. The general amount of distaste stemming from the internet, as well as the part where I don't like hunting for individual PS2 games (and no way in hell am I paying the full $60 for the new stuff. I rarely do that for games I like) has scared me off. What you've written almost makes me feel like I'm missing out on something, so props to you on that.

Online
#9 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -
@ArbitraryWater:  Cool. That's all I need, really. I get what you're saying about being influenced by popular opinion, though. Or like, critical opinion. It's one of the reasons, at least with movies, that I try to stay away from criticism and previews until I see the actual film I wanted to see because of a director I like or whatever, because I wind up being influenced, even if that influence is me reacting in the opposite direction to the one I'm being told to think, or waiting to notice something someone mentioned that winds up not happening until the film's almost over.

From what I know about you, I'm guessing you might not like the game, although I'm not trying to pigeonhole you so much as to let you off the hook. But I like deep games, yet I like DW because it lets me get in touch with a history that's deep in a relatively light way, and gets me thinking about the actual human beings involved in these conflicts (the source material talked about how the peasants experienced things, while DW tends to try its best to forget the peasants exist, but for a few cool moments), since I'm often slaughtering people by the hundreds. The actual mechanisms in the game aren't too involved, but they're a bit more subtly interesting than people who focus on button mashing will allow.  Like the elemental attacks tend to only work when your "zap" gauge is full, which means you have to decide if you're going to expend it on a bit of invincibility that will wipe people out in a nice circle (for some characters, at least) or hold on to it and execute some nifty attacks, but keep yourself exposed to damage that can knock you on your ass.

But at times I feel like I'm playing pretty much the same character based on what weapon they have, and I feel a bit frustrated when I haven't triggered whatever secret conditions I needed based on my imperfect reading of an incomplete faq. So, it's simple at times and arcane in others, and even though my SO and I both like it, we get frustrated at times by sudden difficulty bumps and stupid friendly AI.

When I think about it, if instead of buying three games at current prices I saved that money, I would be able to get the actual books these games were based on in both Chinese and English, unabridged, or a single game would rope me an unabridged modern translation in English. Books are neat, too... 60 bucks is a lot of money, when I think about it.
#10 Posted by Claude (16251 posts) -

Well, I learned a lot in this thread. That's some high-end shit.

#11 Posted by Freezer_Burn (206 posts) -

YES! Huang Gai was my main man playing through DW4. It's nice to see another fan of the club wielding bad ass. I have such fond memories of playing split-screen with my cousin, rocking the world Wu style.

#12 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -
@Freezer_Burn:  Yeah, I spent hours in co-op with a buddy of mine way back when, on DW 3. The disappearing people problem is even worse in split-screen but you can get some epic teamwork moments in that.  He was a Zhou Yu man, I played Huang Gai or Xiao Qiao.

In games in general I tend toward characters that smash stuff. I even played Thief blackjacking everyone if I could. My nickname could very well be Blunt Force Trauma, but it doesn't sound too catchy.
#13 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -
@Claude:  Thank you, sir.

High end treatment of a purportedly low-end game. :)
#14 Posted by Claude (16251 posts) -
@ahoodedfigure said:
" @Claude:  Thank you, sir. High end treatment of a purportedly low-end game. :) "
Some probably view it like a Madden game...NEXT.
#15 Posted by Shirogane (3560 posts) -
@ahoodedfigure said:
"

                    @Freezer_Burn:  Yeah, I spent hours in co-op with a buddy of mine way back when, on DW 3. The disappearing people problem is even worse in split-screen but you can get some epic teamwork moments in that.  He was a Zhou Yu man, I played Huang Gai or Xiao Qiao. In games in general I tend toward characters that smash stuff. I even played Thief blackjacking everyone if I could. My nickname could very well be Blunt Force Trauma, but it doesn't sound too catchy.

                   

                "


Argh, those character have been drasticallly changed in 7. Well, not Huang Gai so much, and his changes are pretty awesome, grapple Musou? Hell yeah!

But what did they do to Zhou Yu?! T_T I liked his sword style damnit, and the way he looked, now....ARGH!

Also, the Qiao sisters use a single fan out, and don't seem to have as much range as they used to, i feel they're really bad in 7.

 

7 is a bit strange, there's a whole bunch of characters added who aren't even in any of the story modes at all. And a lot of character aren't actually in Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but from other stuff of the same era. It's just real weird some of the stuff they're adding.

#16 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -
@Claude:  Oh, I don't doubt that. It's an interesting comparison, actually. And if I was ever to get into any Madden game I wouldn't much care about the current roster or whatever, I'd just try to understand how to play and get into the strategy of it, rather than worry about specific facts of specific players. I'd also be a bit distracted by the scenery, stuff that many hardcore Madden players probably don't even notice.

Gaming's a pretty broad field, with a lot of room for different people I think. I'm cool with people not liking DW, but I'm a bit worried when it becomes some sort of fashionisto snobbery thing rather than a rational rejection of the formula. But I'm not the kind of person who is into trashing things for the sake of trashing things; I know there are folks out there that get more of a buzz from knocking slow-moving industry targets than knocking off heads in an ancient Chinese battlefield.
#17 Posted by ahoodedfigure (4237 posts) -
@Shirogane:  Characters from other sources? Really? That's actually sort of interesting, but it sucks that a lot of the characters aren't integrated into the story modes. I'd rather have, say, a short campaign reflecting a character's contribution to stuff rather than making them just an optional footnote. I'm not sold on all the changes, but I imagine leaping from 4 to 7 would blow my mind, anyway. Either that, or it'd make me sound even more cantankerous than usual, missin' the old days.
#18 Posted by Rowr (5236 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @Rowr said:
" As i recall 5 was released on the new gen, but it was old gen engine with crisper textures. It wasnt a huge step up from 4, not as much as 4 was to 3.

Great casual game to play with a friend or girlfriend in particular. I'm pretty excited to get 7, I really think it helped to skip on 6 so i'm not burnt out on it. I've learnt to ignore reviews for dynasty warriors as there seems to be a huge amount of people who have an unreasonable hate for it. I'm no casual gamer myself.

I went as far as too pick up the books, they can be a little tricky to get into but as long as you can keep up with which character is which its pretty great, I found it really opened up my eyes to the concepts of honour and superstition, and how they may have perceived it in that time period in china, not too mention the culture of turbulence with the divided country. It is a "Romantic" history, but it was written based on events in a time only a few decades later.
"
DW5 was the last game in the series from the PS2/Xbox generation.  The first proper DW after that on the new generation platforms was DW6.Dynasty Warriors 7 is a fantastic game.  The story modes are far more focused on the factions rather than the characters, making each story feel connected to one another, rather than serving as an amalgam of odd alternate histories in which each of the three kingdoms are able to unite China.  The Jin storyline also paints a new portrait of the other factions, particularly Shu, as the nobility of the previous generation gives way to a zealous desire.  The alternate histories and goofier sides of the series are however, still represented well in the conquest mode.  The mode also features a full trivia side-game that tests the player's knowledge of the era's history through the perspective of the novel.  It is also surprisingly complex, as they go deep into minutiae of Romance of the Three Kingdoms, and at times reference other texts and sources.As for Dynasty Warriors 4, that game still features one of my all-time favorite moments in the series.  While playing as Liu Bei in the Nanman Campaign, the only defeat condition is if Liu Bei is defeated, meaning that I didn't have to concern myself with coming to the rescue of my allies.  The is also set up so that you're at a constant disadvantage, as the heat and atmosphere of the stage is constantly dropping the Shu army's morale.  So it wasn't long at all until I was swimming in a sea of Nanman soldiers and all of the spawn points had been taken over by the enemy.  The minimap in the corner was completely red.  The game features pretty generous time limits, as I recall, and yet it nearly came down to the wire for me as I racked up multiple thousands of kills before I was finally able to take out Meng Huo.  My god, it was exhilarating. "
ITS....ITS... ITS LUBU!

ahhh you might be right, it was DW5 - EMPIRES which i had for the new gen.

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