Microsoft's E3 2013 Press Briefing: Silent But Deadly

#251 Edited by KainCarver (116 posts) -

Ok so even though our currency ($AUS) is roughly the same as the US's, we'll still pay a shit tonne more. And with the way MS has structured the XBO; on top of a potential $600+ SKU = GTFO i'm done with XBO.

Sony, don't F*** this up.

#252 Edited by Eddie_and_the_Fist_Monkeys (81 posts) -

I'll be very interested to see how these consoles do assuming Sony announce a similar price point. At this stage I really don't see anything worth spending that amount of money on for either, maybe in a years time. If I don't see anything short of a literal tonne of great games released I really don't see the appeal.

However the argument that compares the price of the technology within the console to the price they're asking is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, if it doesn't offer you anything radically different to the 'PC' you have now (and play all the time with friends) in terms of games and experiences then really what is it worth. That is to say nothing of the compromises they are asking of the player in comparison to what they are getting now.

Let yo cash money do the talking it's the language of business.

#253 Edited by SilenceUK (330 posts) -

@colourful_hippie: erm did you miss dead rising being called exclusive then ? Did you miss twitch rather than ustream ? ( not a plus to me but I know which I watch people on more ) not interested in spark ? I don't think it's a clear cut race at all so far and if playing online and drm that stops game companies being ripped off as they are atm are bad things I say grow up

Going off on a mini rant I've yet to see a single thing that worries or angers me about Xbox drm

Publishers can allow trade ins that will then give them a cut of the sale again? About time and fair

Play connected all the time to allow playing games disc less and from any system ? Great feature

Share your games with 10 friends and family ? Perfect unless you want some broken thing that happened on ps3

Really see little downside to these things I mean the only one is the online check ins and who really doesn't play logged into live at all times ?

#254 Posted by wastedcolumbo (68 posts) -

Just how many of those games were exclusive? My PC is pretty good and I would much rather play all those games on that or even a PS4. The question remains whether it will be cheaper than the PS4 or not because all sources seem to suggest that it has the advantage hardware-wise (just how much of an advantage is debatable) And if people can get those games on a console that is cheaper, running them better and doesn't need a paid subscription for multiplayer...... I can't see many people choosing the Xbone.

#255 Edited by skelington_ (292 posts) -

£429?

Urm, no thanks.

#256 Edited by Patman99 (1611 posts) -

@ei8htbit said:

Just the facts:

$399USD - Xbox 360 Launch price in 2005

$475USD - Equivalent price in 2013 allowing for 19.1% cumulative inflation

Unemployment rate in the US in 2005 roughly 6% (compared to current estimates of 7.5% today)

$499 = monthly rent payment for a no frills apartment outside of most major city centers.

$499 = 1 month's groceries for a small family

$499 = entry model iPad

$499 = 8 full price current gen games

$499 = 48 hours at minimum wage job in San Francisco

$499 = 5 months worth of iPhone unlimited data plan.

$499 = 100 Pepperoni P'zones from Pizza Hut

$499 = the announced price of the PS4 in a few hours

My thoughts: $500 in it's own right as a monetary value (and equivalent value in P'zones) is a lot. Relative to the value of a high-end gaming platform of today and based on the value of components alone it's more than fair. Relative to it's value long term over the course of 6 to 8 years it seems arbitrary to contest the price would make any more sense $50 or even $100 cheaper.

Yeah, tend to agree. Arguing that it would make more sense at $449 or even $399 or whatever the pre-E3 estimates were isn't really that far off of what it is finally priced at. The hardcore people will always pay that early adopter premium and moms that wanted to buy it for their kids will always wait a bit.

I will be in the UK at the time of its launch and I'll probably fork over the higher price simply to play games. Who needs rent when you have Halo 5 and Call of Duty: Ghosts.... (cough, cough). I guess Ryse and Dead Rising 3 might be worth it.

#257 Edited by Strychnine (22 posts) -

$499.99 for the console and around $60.00 to "rent" a game on a console that I can't play if I'm deployed to the desert?

Oh YEAH! Sign me up!!!! (rollseyes)

#258 Edited by Pop (2644 posts) -

499 euro and 429 pounds? What the fuck microsoft?(I'm a PC gamer and won't buy any of the consoles and don't really care buuuut).

Why are they fucking europe so badly? maybe they know they won't win the battle with sony in europe and to be profitable they need to sell it for 600$, but they'll take a hit in the US because they're confident on selling at least 2 games on it.

(lol I hope I made my idea easy to understand but english is not my first language so I don't know if ppl know wtf I'm saying)

#259 Posted by Inquisitor (235 posts) -

Conference wasn't bad, still don't like the price tag of the box and i don't like MS choices about rights management, that's one thing they cannot change even if they show me one godly game after another.

I hardly manage to justify paying for a newly released game, i usually only do that for big titles that i know will pay for themselves like stuff from Bethesda or Bioware, the rest i pretty much buy used from e-bay or new but heavily discounted because old... I don't feel the Xbone would be friendly to my wallet, and my lifestyle (as in paying bills, doing the groceries, etcetera).

#260 Posted by Oddballs (152 posts) -

I sincerely hope PS4 doesn't subscribe to this European price hike.

#261 Posted by theanticitizen (271 posts) -

I paid $600 for a wifi only 32GB iPad. I think I'm ok paying $500 for an XBO

#262 Posted by Inquisitor (235 posts) -

and about using real currency on the shop.... i just hope they get their conversions right (...)

#263 Posted by MrMazz (1023 posts) -

@silenceuk: it's not fair that the pubs get a cut of used game sales if they want to now. No other industry gets that pleasure what makes them so special? This whole thing goes against first sale doctrine. If they can't figure out how to make money to damn bad they deserve to burn for it.

#264 Posted by wastedcolumbo (68 posts) -

@oddballs: It almost certainly will, at least it will piss me off less because I wouldn't be paying more for a console with significantly less features in my region. It will still be shite though...

#265 Posted by OllyOxenFree (4976 posts) -

I paid $600 for a wifi only 32GB iPad. I think I'm ok paying $500 for an XBO

Heeeeeey new frieeeend. My birthday is coming up in 4 months. Just throwing that out there.

#266 Edited by theanticitizen (271 posts) -

@theanticitizen said:

I paid $600 for a wifi only 32GB iPad. I think I'm ok paying $500 for an XBO

Heeeeeey new frieeeend. My birthday is coming up in 4 months. Just throwing that out there.

LOL! Well it's going to take me all year to save up now XD and I think Xbone will miss your birthday, sorry duder ;)

#267 Edited by Max_Cherry (1137 posts) -

I found it to be a underwhelming Conference with no substance especially considering all their reveals will have their best versions on the PS4.

#268 Edited by Osaladin (2527 posts) -

It was a good conference, but the thing I'm excited about, TitanFall, is also coming to PC, so I'm going to pass on the XBone.

#269 Edited by RenegadeSaint (1553 posts) -

Overall, I have to say the Xbone is looking pretty awesome. There were a lot of very cool games and $500 is actually pretty reasonable when you compare it to what we paid for consoles last generation. Excited for Sony's press conference now.

#270 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

Why is there so much hate on Twitter for Sony?

#271 Posted by Levio (1784 posts) -

No Banjo-Kazooie, no sale. Period.

#272 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4420 posts) -

@colourful_hippie: erm did you miss dead rising being called exclusive then ? Did you miss twitch rather than ustream ? ( not a plus to me but I know which I watch people on more ) not interested in spark ? I don't think it's a clear cut race at all so far and if playing online and drm that stops game companies being ripped off as they are atm are bad things I say grow up

Going off on a mini rant I've yet to see a single thing that worries or angers me about Xbox drm

Publishers can allow trade ins that will then give them a cut of the sale again? About time and fair

Play connected all the time to allow playing games disc less and from any system ? Great feature

Share your games with 10 friends and family ? Perfect unless you want some broken thing that happened on ps3

Really see little downside to these things I mean the only one is the online check ins and who really doesn't play logged into live at all times ?

haha

#273 Edited by Colourful_Hippie (4420 posts) -

@colourful_hippie: erm did you miss dead rising being called exclusive then ? Did you miss twitch rather than ustream ? ( not a plus to me but I know which I watch people on more ) not interested in spark ? I don't think it's a clear cut race at all so far and if playing online and drm that stops game companies being ripped off as they are atm are bad things I say grow up

Going off on a mini rant I've yet to see a single thing that worries or angers me about Xbox drm

Publishers can allow trade ins that will then give them a cut of the sale again? About time and fair

Play connected all the time to allow playing games disc less and from any system ? Great feature

Share your games with 10 friends and family ? Perfect unless you want some broken thing that happened on ps3

Really see little downside to these things I mean the only one is the online check ins and who really doesn't play logged into live at all times ?

haha

#274 Posted by Waffles13 (611 posts) -

@waffles13 said:

@danielheard said:

Lets say you were going to put together a living room PC with a $500.00 budget. Would it be comparable to the hardware capabilities that Microsoft is offering?

Probably somewhat comparable at launch, with the $500 PC being slightly worse performance wise.

But look at something like Halo 3 vs. Halo 4. As the console gets more and more development time and more optimized engines, it will blow the shit out of any current PC in the $500-800 dollar range. Obviously the PC has the ability to be upgraded, but that's the way it always works.

There was this article where PC Gamer puts together a rig equal to the speculative PS4. It costs $600 bucks.

Honestly, though, since these new systems are basically PC's in and of themselves, I have a feeling that the "optimized engines" are going to favor PC's just about as well as Xbox One/PS4's. Obviously, this won't be the case with your Halos or Uncharteds, but those are first-party games, and if they're what you're after, you should definitely just get the requisite console.

Keep in mind that you cannot directly correlate specs on a console to those on a PC. That article is good for showing that Sony is taking a bit of a loss on the PS4's production (although supply lines and producing in bulk will negate some portion of that $200 difference).

But a computer has overhead a console won't. While obviously the consoles have their own custom operating systems, they are designed for the hardware. Compared to something like Windows or OSX, they will take barely any resources at all, and it's a known quantity that is developed around on consoles. On PCs you have things like Steam, Skype, Dropbox, Chrome, or any other number of programs and services sapping away at system resources. Granted, as processors and RAM become faster and cheaper, those become less and less of an issue, but even the most barebones gaming PC is going to have system overhead that a console wont (or at the very least the console overhead is very deliberately designed for and takes the minimum footprint).

That article also mentions how great it is that PCs can be customized and have a huge number of different choices, but that also can be a huge downfall for PC games. Guess how many games support that TressFX hair tech from AMD? There's Tomb Raider, which was undoubtedly AMD handing Square a pile of money in order to get their logo on the game. What about PhysX? That's much more widely supported, but honestly I have an Nvidia card and I just leave PhysX off in the occasional game that supports it because it's always poorly implemented and the gains aren't worth the performance hit. These are obviously fringe cases, but even down to the architecture video card and processors themselves, it's much, much harder to properly optimize a game when there are more or less and infinite number of combinations of different hardware in a PC. Add in the fact that PC games need to have various levels of detail that all need to be tested for so that those with crappier computers don't get (too) shafted, and PC games are never going to take full advantage of the hardware they are given. Even something like Crysis, which was a PC exclusive designed with the express intent of being for the highest end cards of the time ran like crap on them, and even with my 680 and 3570K, I can't play that first game with AA at 60 FPS.

Compare that to this last generation of consoles. The Xbox 360 has 512 MB of RAM. That's for system AND graphics. Even a midrange PC today would have a MINIMUM of 4GB of system memory (and 8GB is crazy cheap) and only the cheapest video cards have less than a gig of their own. The CPU is harder to compare to a PC, but it's safe to safe that the 360's CPU is at most on par with (and likely worse than) a Core 2 Duo, an ancient architecture at this point. The video card roughly equivalent to a 7800GTX, which ironically is a card that I owned - and have upgraded four times since. But then look at the last couple years of 360 games. Say what you will about Gears 3 or Halo 4, but those are beautiful games. Yes, they run at 720p, and yes, they hit a maximum of 30FPS, but that hardware is ANCIENT, and it is still astonishing to me that those games don't just cause the console to implode in on itself. But those engines had nearly a decade to get ironed out, and every trick and nuance of the hardware was known and could be exploited to it's fullest. The same is obviously true of the PS3 (if not more so), but that's much harder of a comparison to make given that the Cell cannot be directly compared to PC components of the time.

To be clear, I identify primarily as a PC gamer, and if you can afford it, you will always get better visuals on a PC than on a console, even at launch. But if we are talking about a mid-range PC, that advantage is going to be negligible, and you will need to make significant upgrades every couple of years just in order to keep pace with the advancement that will be made on simply through optimization on static console hardware. Yes, the convergence of PC-like hardware in the One and PS4 will make the split less noticeable and result in better PC ports, but it is always easier to hit a stationary target that a moving one - even if that moving one happens to get bigger as time goes on.

tl;dr: Console specs =/= PC specs, from a pure hardware perspective consoles will be significantly cheaper long-run versus a comparably powerful PC.

#275 Edited by Cybexx (1195 posts) -

"Drivatar" is actually not a new feature so much as a feature from the original Forza Motorsport that I thought was kind of cool and was baffled by the fact that it never made it into any of the 360 games. I think the fact they were touting it as something that required the next-generation was kind of a misnomer, I mean the "Cloud" is not really next gen but sure whatever.

Between this and Battlefield getting the Commander mode back it was a good day for 2005 features being introduced as Next-Gen features.

#276 Posted by hollitz (1560 posts) -

Thought that XBONE had the more interesting conference--games wise (and gaffe-wise)--but I pre-ordered a PS4 at the end of the day and not a Bone.

#277 Posted by bgdiner (281 posts) -

Microsoft is going to lose again in Europe and Asia, especially so given their more-expensive console littered with features that European gamers probably don't care about. Microsoft needs to make some big changes before the holiday season to stay relevant; not only is it more expensive and less-geared towards the hardcore crowd (who are the day-one purchasers), it also stands in stark contrast to the PS4's consumer-focused nature. Last-gen, there weren't terribly many differences between the two consoles, but if Microsoft really thinks their selling point is TV integration, they're living in the 90s.

#278 Posted by bgdiner (281 posts) -

@graf1k: I'm interested in hearing your opinion on the console race now that Sony has revealed its DRM strategy (or lack thereof). Not trying to sound divisive or anything, I'm genuinely interested.

#279 Edited by InspectorFowler (26 posts) -

I'm not going to defend everything Microsoft is doing. I'm sure they have their reasons - most likely to court developers so they can stop paying money for exclusives. Over the last couple months I've thought about it, and while I like a lot about both systems, I'll go for the Xbox. The DRM stuff isn't any worse than Steam in terms of "you only pay for the privilege of downloading this game, you don't own it". I know it's not terribly consumer friendly. I think my wife and I will have fun with the new Kinect, especially since we finally have a living room big enough. I love Forza, and I'm not so big on GT5. Blah, blah, reasons, reasons.

I know the PS4 is $100 cheaper, but why doesn't anybody mention that the PS4 doesn't come with the Playstation Eye? I know that not everybody is excited about Kinect, but after you spend the $60 for a Playstation Eye, the price (on hardware alone) isn't so divergent.

I get why people are upset, and they can certainly be upset if they want to. But the headline saying "a lot" is sort of misleading - $500 for what you're getting really isn't that bad.

#280 Edited by mazik765 (2315 posts) -

Microsoft had a lot of really awesome games, too bad for the elephant in the room...the elephant that Sony shot in the face.

#281 Posted by Zevvion (2102 posts) -

Here is what I am going to do:

Buy an Xbox One
Buy a PS4
Keep my gaming laptop

Buy Mirror's Edge for Xbox One
Buy Mirror's Edge for PS4
Buy Mirror's Edge for PC

That's right.

#282 Edited by probablytuna (3732 posts) -

I am honestly pretty intrigued by Quantum Break, it looks pretty good. I hope it will be released for the PC afterwards like Alan Wake. That aside, holy hell I can't believe a Swery65 game would be unveiled in an event like this. That is awesome.

Also, I wonder if the blandness of Fuse was a result of Insomniac not caring so much about the project after being forced to change the direction from fun to serious and focused their attention on Sunset Overdrive?

#283 Edited by BaronSamedi007 (9 posts) -

So after waiting 17 years for a sequal to Killer Insinct what do I get? I get a game that can't be used in tournaments becouse orginzies wil not be a able to admin the game due to the DRM 24 hrs offline lock-out witch bricks your console. Instaed of getting new Rere games from one of there many Intellectual propertys, we get one Rere game and a rushed demo and short triler. After over a decade of Rere been owned by MS we get "me too" we sports copys, a missed guided Banjo Kazooie game, a Perfect Dark game with out the talent. I geuss it more avatar duty for my ex favorite games company. Time get the old N64 out that wont switch itself off after 24 hrs "sigh" after RRD and DRM crap they not getting my money.

#284 Edited by VibratingDonkey (883 posts) -

I'm saddened by the fact that I thought Microsoft did good delivering on their "games at E3" promise. Because as long as they insist on siding with "participating retailers" and publishers over consumers, I'm not buying the console those games are exclusive to. I definitely would've been on board, but no, they decided to push me away with their shitty policies and restrictions.

#285 Posted by Wonloong (365 posts) -

@vibratingdonkey: But isn't what they're doing for the publishers? That they're bringing the money back to them instead of the retailers? I could be wrong about this.

#286 Posted by jayspadez (99 posts) -

funny thing is my year and a half old pc is still more powerful than the ps4 in all aspects...lol

with that said im still getting a ps4 for the exclusives....but in reality all those supposed mind blowing graphics are already on the pc, its just that most dev's have been waiting to release these next gen games on consoles along with the pc

#287 Edited by graf1k (425 posts) -

@bgdiner said:

@graf1k: I'm interested in hearing your opinion on the console race now that Sony has revealed its DRM strategy (or lack thereof). Not trying to sound divisive or anything, I'm genuinely interested.

I posted in the PS4 pricing story about it, but the comments last night were so fast and furious I'm sure it's lost to the ether, but basically my overwhelming feeling is I couldn't be more happy to have been wrong. I honestly approached the situation that if MS was doing it, Sony HAD to be doing it to and thus, it's just back to who has the games I'm most interested in which, even now, exclusive wise for me is still Microsoft. That said, now that we are given the option of a console with DRM and one without, the exclusives Microsoft has are no longer enough to sway me to their side, ESPECIALLY with the PS4 being $100 less. I immediately pre-ordered a PS4 last night and while I haven't cancelled my Xbone preorder yet, I fully expect to if Microsoft doesn't do a massive mea culpa and ditch the always on and DRM.

Approaching the situation, as I did, that this new type of DRM was an inevitability, while not being happy about it at all, I was willing to grudgingly accept it because there will always be some console exclusives keeping me from going PC-only. That, and I have at least one group of friends I game with that just aren't going to be giving up consoles any time soon. But now that we know this was clearly and a choice on Microsoft's part either to implement this DRM, or to accept it while Sony didn't, I'm a lot more offended by the existence of this DRM and always online than I would have been if it was ubiquitous across both consoles. I have a lot of respect for Sony for this move, whether or not it was shrewd business or love of their consumers on their part, the net result is the same. I'm still not sure if Microsoft will back peddle and dump the always on and DRM, but that fact that Sony is forcing them to consider it right now is a service they have done to gamers everywhere.

#288 Posted by Dirtimover (12 posts) -

Please stop Alex from reviewing E3

#289 Edited by jagehtso (65 posts) -

As someone who doesn't care about shooters, Xbone has literally nothing to offer for me. If I should really decide to double-dip I'd rather go PS4 and Wii U at this point.

#290 Posted by Centurion73 (15 posts) -

Titanfall is coming to PC. Dark Souls 2 will come to PC. A LOT of MS games will come to PC. I already own one of those (and it already has superior specs to either of these next gen consoles). It will take more than Ryse and a new Halo to make me consider purchasing a X1, and I'm someone who has traditionally owned both Sony and MS consoles since the original PS and Xbox.

I wanted MS to pull out some magic, but I simply can't justify paying for one. And I certainly don't want the Kinect. I think I'll save $500 and walk over to turn on my consoles.

Sony by contrast made me want to run out and pre-order a PS4 immediately.

#291 Posted by dropabombonit (1492 posts) -

The price in pounds is the same as what the PS3 launched at in the UK and this whole console launch strikes me as the same hubris Sony had with the PS3

#292 Posted by cooljammer00 (1891 posts) -

Quantum Break is a 3rd person cover based shooter, according to Sam Lake in an interview with Geoff Keighley.

#293 Posted by Datenshi (2 posts) -

wow..just wow..that price! I bought the Xbox 360 because it wasn't that expensive. Hearing how they've put in a bunch of crap in the Xbox One console and are charging ~800$ in EU its def a no go. The only game im interested in is Witcher 3 and its not even an exclusive. So i'll be playing my PC exclusivly from now on. Thank you very much Microsoft.

#294 Edited by masterfaculty (152 posts) -

@graf1k: I agree with you 100%. As I stated in another post, I've been an XBox owner for two generations now, but all these decisions that benefit everyone except their core audience are baffling and, frankly, worrisome. It shouldn't have been so difficult for MS to realize they were stepping on a giant turd with these policies. It's insulting and astonishingly arrogant and myopic to think their customers are just going to be fanboys for the XBox no matter what. Here's a clue, guys: we care about games, and whichever platform lets us play the most for the best price and without suffocating our rights as consumer is the one we're gonna pick.

#295 Edited by ptys (1968 posts) -

It's weird how $500 is seen as expensive and then everyone lost their shit when the PS4 was $400, as surely that price was just expected? I think they've had alot of time to work on these systems and so it's surprising MS came in high, almost think PS may have crippled themselves cause Xbox can surely do a version without Kinect for the same price and then they'll both be running at a loss? The XB1 is really big though, makes me wonder what else that thing can do?

I plan to wait until next E3 to make a purchase as neither company really seems to know what they're doing.

#296 Edited by magusat999 (7 posts) -

What did Microsoft have to say about the questioning period after their presentation... wait, are those crickets I hear?

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