Entertainment Software Ratings Board Forum

Look I love videogames and most of my gaming collection is rated M.

If the rating board rates a game M because it considers it too violent or for any other reason, why do reataillers still sell those games to kids under that specific age?
I guess a 16 year old can play a game that is meant for 18 years olds but when I see/hear stories about a 10 years old playing GTA4 or something like that I find it ridiculous. Parents arent doing their job so why not use the rating system to ensure that specific games end up in the right hands ?

And on the flip side, games have ratings and they are over enforced. I'm 17, and I am legally able to purchase whatever the hell I want, but Microsoft doesn't let anyone over the age of 18 download mature content from Xbox Live.

Although it does not have the legal authority to implement or enforce retailer sales policies with respect to computer and video games, the ESRB works closely with retailers and game centers to: a) provide in-store signage which explains the rating system; b) support their store policies pertaining to the sale or rental of Mature-rated games to minors; and c) help educate and train store associates and employees with regard to the rating system. For more information on the ESRB retail partnership program and the ESRB Retail Council (ERC), click here.

http://www.esrb.org/ratings/enforcement.jsp

The age ratings aren't legally enforceable in the US. The first amendment guarantee's that you cannot have legally enforceable age restrictions. Although most stores will make it store policy to keep to the ratings, and ask for ID if they think a person is below the age.

ESRBs aren't a law to be enforced.  They're basically there to warn parents, and let them judge if their child is mature enough to play.

At Gamestop (And I'm guessing most other stores do this as well, as LordAndrew's link says that employees are required to do so), they do require someone 17+ to be there, and will list off the ESRB details.

Because of them doing that, I've gotten turned down by my parents a couple times lol...  So when you come down to it, it's up to the judgement of the parents.  If a parent is actually smart and pay attention to what their kids are playing, then there shouldn't be any problems.

But not all parents are like that, because I've seen scenarios such as the AC one you mentioned.  Anyways, that's my 2 cents of rambling.

In Germany, the ratings must be and are enforced. Games are rated by an independant commitee of men and women from different areas, including students and representatives of the church. Ratings only affect the act of buying. Owning a game is always legal. For those interested, there's the following ratings:

Keine Altersbeschränkung: (No age restriction) A game deemed suitable for all ages. Usually given to family friendly titles, generally given to titles without violence. Examples: Brain Age, Viva Pinata
Freigegeben ab 6 Jahren: (Ages 6 and up) Parents are encouraged not to let small children play it. Usually given to titles with little cartoon violence, fast imagery or themes that need a little reflection. Examples: Smash Bros., GRiD
Freigegeben ab 12 Jahren: (Ages 12 and up) You have to be at least 12 to buy this game. Usually given to titles that portray (unbloody) death or a little blood. Examples: Black&White, Portal, Blue Dragon
Freigegeben ab 16 Jahren: (Ages 16 and up) The desired rating for most games, and the one many developers censor their games for. Unbloody shooters, Unnecessary (but not gratitous) violence, scary imagery, and such will give you a 16 rating. Examples: Metal Gear Solid, Assassin's Creed, Tomb Raider (some of the games are censored), Mass Effect
Keine Jugendfreigabe: (Not suited for minors) You must be 18 to buy this game. This is strictly enforced. Violent games that don't reward kills; Violent games where the violence is reflected by the main character, or portrayed as "bad". Games where violence is the only way to achieve your goal. Examples: Almost every FPS there is, Half-Life 2 (censored by publisher to avoid the next higher rating), Left 4 Dead (also), Max Payne, UT, GTA IV, Dead Space, CS (censored), etc. pp.
Indiziert: (Indexed) If you're 18 you can legally buy the game, and stores are allowed to sell them - But not openly. Every form of advertising of an indexed game is strictly forbidden, that means no magazine coverage, no ads, and no display on the shelves! This is done to make sure minors are not in any way exposed to the game. If you want to buy an indexed game, you have to ask the clerk if they have a copy. Because advertising is prohibited, Indexed games almost always fail completely, that's why developers often censor games (and not the government) to achieve "Keine Jugendfreigabe" or "ab 16 Jahren". Games that don't reflect violence, reward violence, stage violence in unnecessary spectacular or interactive ways, or are entirely build around violence as fun are almost always indexed right away. Examples are C&C Generals (!), Resident Evil 2, GTA: VC,  F.E.A.R.
Beschlagnahmt: (Confiscated, you could say "banned") Games that were "banned" because of: National socialist ideology, pornography and violence that is deemed pornographic (I know!). "Banned" games are legal to own, but illegal to sell, much like drugs. Banning of games is very, very rare, but it happens. Examples are: Postal, Soldier of Fortune, Manhunt and recently (wait for it!) Dead Rising.

Because indexing and "banning" only happens when someone is requesting it (think soccer moms or churches writing a letter to the ratings committee), they are pretty random. In the normal ratings process, the highest rating is the 18-rating (legal to advertise, sell and own as long as you can proove that you're 18). Without the possibility of these Index/Ban-requests, this system would actually be pretty good. But as it stands, developers censor the shit out of violent games to avoid Index/Ban-requests.


Fun fact: Nudity and profanity have little to no influence on these ratings.
Fun Fact #2: Of course, if you're 18 and have an internet connection, you can get any game you want, uncut and cheap. Internet stores are flooded with austrian PAL copies.

I still get ID'd when I buy an M-rated game, most of the time if I'm in a store I don't usually go to; but the people at the game store know me, so the employees that remember don't bother asking anymore. They barely did when i was 16 anyway.

Slunks said:

"Because of my job at GameStop, I know for a fact ESRB goes around to certain stores and have young teenagers try to buy M-rated games. I occasionally get the reports of percentages, and some stores (Best Buy, Circuit City) are extremely bad at this. GameStop ranks the highest in not allowing it happen by having the punishment a one-strike deal. If I sold a young boy or girl an M-rated game, I'd get fired, the store would get fined, and the store manager would be fired, regardless of if he or she was even in the store at the time (many other people involved would be in trouble as well). -- They're even supposedly trying to make it so we face jail time.People get pissy when we ask for ID often, or when we don't allow other people to buy a game for someone else. Truth be told, I'm the one who has the right to get pissed off. It's my ass on the line, not yours."

No, your store sucks balls. You might not, but GameStop still does. Deal with it, you're the one working for them.

I work for Gamestop and if a person is under 17 here in the US they have to have someone over 17 purchase it for them most commonly it is their parents. Most parents don't honestly give a shit, because they just want to shut their kids up. I have seen this to many times since working at Gamestop. I have even had parents get mad at me for getting their permission.There are parents out there who do care, but to get back on track we won't even sell a game to a person over 17 if they can't produce an ID. I can't say the same for other Gamestops, but we are strict when it comes to selling m rated game sales.

Binman88 said:

"You're right, customers shouldn't get pissy about it, but you shouldn't get pissed off or let it get to you."

Just to be clear, I don't. Typically I fill them in on what happens if I sold them the game, and it's amazing how fast they turn around attitude-wise.

BiggerBomb said:

"No, your store sucks balls. You might not, but GameStop still does. Deal with it, you're the one working for them."

I'm pretty sure nearly every employee couldn't agree more with how corporate runs things. My store, thankfully, is really just a group of friends who are laid-back and the store manager doesn't push sales/reserves incredibly hard on customers to the point of making them annoyed (unlike many other GameStop's I've been in).

 I know it's part of my job to deal with it, and I do. But I think I'm missing your point. Are you trying to say that GameStop sucks for not selling game's to minors, or for the punishment? Just looking for some clarification on your opinion.

Because they are optional? *though its funny cause no game is released outside of indie stuff and such that doesn't have the ESRB ratings* but stores are not forced to enforce them which is why they don't.

though they should, and infact quite a few places try too wal-mart asks for age when a mature game is purchased.

BiggerBomb said:

"Slunks said:

"BiggerBomb said:

"No, your store sucks balls. You might not, but GameStop still does. Deal with it, you're the one working for them."

I'm pretty sure nearly every employee couldn't agree more with how corporate runs things. My store, thankfully, is really just a group of friends who are laid-back and the store manager doesn't push sales/reserves incredibly hard on customers to the point of making them annoyed (unlike many other GameStop's I've been in). I know it's part of my job to deal with it, and I do. But I think I'm missing your point. Are you trying to say that GameStop sucks for not selling game's to minors, or for the punishment? Just looking for some clarification on your opinion."

No, no. I say they suck for their disgusting business practices and the apparent pre-requisite of incompetence for their employees. They put old games in new boxes and sell them for full price, they sell empty display cases, lie about what they do/don't have in stock, and shove subscriptions and guides down the customers' throats.I'm not attacking you, personally. I don't know you. I do know GameStop, though. And I don't like 'em one bit."

Ah, okay. I was just wondering what you meant, that's all. Thanks.

CharleyTony said:

"BiggerBomb said:

"

And on the flip side, games have ratings and they are over enforced. I'm 17, and I am legally able to purchase whatever the hell I want, but Microsoft doesn't let anyone over the age of 18 download mature content from Xbox Live.

"

Your situation is crummy but my main concern is more for time I go to a "Big store which's name starts with a W" where a parent buys his 10 year old a game called Assassins Creed, rated M for killing people with premeditation... tell him
"you know this game is for adults and is pretty much only about violence"
and getting the awesome answer which follow:
" hey mind your own business, he mowed the lawn this mourning!"
and then, after the clerk heard everything single I was at the checkout while saying it, and then I sticked around to see what she was going to do. Obviously, she did nothing aside from taking the parents money!"

That's because the parent is the one responsible for their kids, not the walmart employee. Mind your own business.

Me, I was playing Quake around the age of eight. Couldn't really get that far, though. Scared the shit out of me. :P

My experience: I worked at a computer store that sold used games and I had an 8 year old that wanted to trade their GTA game in and buy another M rated game. I literally looked at the boy and asked him if he had an ID (which he clearly didn't) so I had to tell him I couldn't sell it to him, then he proceeded to go out to the parking lot and bring in his mother. She walked in and I explained to her about the rating system and the type of content in the game. She told me her son liked the game and paid me. 

Slunks said:

"BiggerBomb said:

"Slunks said:

"BiggerBomb said:

"No, your store sucks balls. You might not, but GameStop still does. Deal with it, you're the one working for them."

I'm pretty sure nearly every employee couldn't agree more with how corporate runs things. My store, thankfully, is really just a group of friends who are laid-back and the store manager doesn't push sales/reserves incredibly hard on customers to the point of making them annoyed (unlike many other GameStop's I've been in). I know it's part of my job to deal with it, and I do. But I think I'm missing your point. Are you trying to say that GameStop sucks for not selling game's to minors, or for the punishment? Just looking for some clarification on your opinion."

No, no. I say they suck for their disgusting business practices and the apparent pre-requisite of incompetence for their employees. They put old games in new boxes and sell them for full price, they sell empty display cases, lie about what they do/don't have in stock, and shove subscriptions and guides down the customers' throats.I'm not attacking you, personally. I don't know you. I do know GameStop, though. And I don't like 'em one bit."

Ah, okay. I was just wondering what you meant, that's all. Thanks."

Mhm!