Epic Games Wins Lawsuit With Silicon Knights [UPDATED]

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#101 Edited by AlbinoJerk (84 posts) -

Does anybody know what the actual contract was?  I know that sometimes purchases of equipment or machinery will come with an included period of support and troubleshooting.  With some of the equipment my business has purchased, this included on-location service and training.  I have heard of this kind of situation with engine licencing before, but I am a little fuzzy. 
 
Is there anything in the contract that includes or implies the kind of hands-on support that Silicon Knights seems to have been expecting? 
 
Also:  I enjoy official signatures on silly documents.  It is the best thing.   Also need to point out that on the second day they gave a $10 tip on $140 of food.  What cheap assholes.

#102 Posted by Zleunamme (651 posts) -

Money well spent Patrick. Does a Freedom of Information Act request have to be made in those situations?

#103 Posted by RVonE (4603 posts) -

@pekoe212 said:

2 days of lunch for a large group of people? That's a reasonable amount if they got them anything better than dollar menu fast food. I don't see how this is news at all.

The news is in the parts of the article that aren't about food?

#104 Posted by Deathpooky (1374 posts) -

@Zleunamme: No, you just have to do a search on PACER and find the case. Though I agree it's pretty ridiculous it costs any money. And it's cumbersome to search and navigate.

#105 Posted by jakob187 (21642 posts) -

So long, Dennis Dyack. Time for you to shut down shop and take to Kickstarter.

#106 Posted by mrpandaman (864 posts) -

I thought that the $4.45 million was just $4.45 when I first read it. But man... I wish the notes showed what precisely their lunch consisted of. I also want to know if their lunch included mind readers and clowns, if there's also a dancing bear that would be awesome.

#107 Posted by Sammann31415 (67 posts) -

Sell the Eternal Darkness IP to someone who will make a damn game, Silicon... You know you want to, SK... It'll get you some money... Do it... PEER PRESSURE...

#108 Posted by Spiritof (2019 posts) -

I'm just curious if anyone on the jury fucked their sandwich (and what kind of sandwich was it?).

#109 Posted by Hunter5024 (5538 posts) -

Those lunch numbers sound big, but remember that's lunch for 9 people who are forced to be there, and depending on where this takes place that might not even be very much money to get some lunch.

Online
#110 Edited by warrenEBB (32 posts) -

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

#111 Posted by Oy (280 posts) -

I liked Too Human. I wish they would have just sucked it up and made a better game instead of whining and suing with no actual thought or plan about what they were doing. Now they will be forever in a situation of: awwwwwkward.

#112 Posted by Divina_Rex (351 posts) -

Lunch?! What did they EAT?!

#113 Posted by Vinny_Says (5686 posts) -

It cost $145 dollars for 4 people to eat at shitty red lobster, I'm not surprised anything descent would cost more for a jury....

Online
#114 Posted by zodstein (95 posts) -

I may not get my $60 back for Too Human, but this helps. Also, the money will come from the Ontario taxpayers, that's where Silicon Knights gets all it's money.

#115 Posted by Jonnyflash80 (489 posts) -

Silicon Knights is not long for this world. It was kind of a flimsy lawsuit in the first place so I'm not really surprised, but I'd still like to see some detailed information why the jury ruled in favor of Epic.

#116 Posted by Figglesworth (50 posts) -

A poor craftsman blames his tools, then sues the toolmakers and then ends up owing that toolmaker $4.5 million.

#117 Posted by Brockly46 (645 posts) -

Snake? SNAKE!? SNAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKEEEEEEEEEEEE

#118 Posted by Pop (2605 posts) -

Too bad Patrick couldn't find the food the jury ordered, at least then he would have something to laugh about.

#119 Posted by MacEG (253 posts) -

@allworkandlowpay: I don't doubt that Epic has tools that only they use and don't release to everyone through the UDK. Or that that run beta updates of UDK on their machines while waiting to release a public update. Any company will do that. That's the nature of software development and that's the nature of good business.

However, any good, successful business will also tell you that boring, constant money, is good money. The more passive cash flow they have coming in that they don't have to think about, the bigger the risks they can take with other projects(games)/innovations(UDK4). This applies anywhere from the mom and pop lawn mowing service to the game industry.

In this case, where does that $$ come from for Epic? Their licensees. I'm not disregarding how successful their games have made, but taking million dollar risks is not in ANY company's best interest.... unless you're James Cameron and want to keep throwing 10 million after 10 million at a film that has blue people in it.

Also, the marketing tool part I don't think is as big as you think. If anything, it's a marketing tool for the engine itself and not the games. The percentage of people who bought Gears of War based on "Oh this is that Unreal Engine Game" is going to be far, far, FAR less than the people who saw the advertisement on TV and went "OH SHEEIIITT IMA GET THAT JOINT WHEN IT DROPS". That's marketing.

So, when someone says that they don't want their licensees to become too successful is ridiculous.

RIDICULOUS I TELL YA!

#120 Posted by TPoppaPuff (238 posts) -

@jakob187 said:

So long, Dennis Dyack. Time for you to shut down shop and take to Kickstarter.

Yeah, until he sues everyone who gave money because they demand he makes a game. Of course, the lawyers will be paid for with the kickstarter money, but that was a given.

#121 Posted by Yownage (34 posts) -

Your work is always appreciated Patrick, even if it is revealing the lunch costs of a court case, nowhere else would I be able to retrieve such... unique information.

#122 Posted by Roodog (52 posts) -

It's most likely "Game Over" for SK now.

#123 Posted by Timnoldzim (86 posts) -

Well, it looks like Silicon Knights is finally headed for the bankruptcy toilet.

And this silly little thing took five damned years to resolve?!

#124 Posted by Hailinel (23873 posts) -

Silicon Knights was just never the same after they broke away from Nintendo.

It shows who was really keeping the ship on course while they were making Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes.

#125 Posted by Haruko (286 posts) -

Damnit! I loved SK and Too Human way too much but this is just sad. How they could find in Epic's favor on all counts just... sucks. We'll never see SK really do anything again will we?

#126 Posted by Napalm (9020 posts) -

Hahaha, shut the fuck up, Silicon Knights.

#127 Posted by White (1320 posts) -

I hereby sentence you, Silicon Knights, to pay for sandwiches for Epic Games for the rest of the year.

#128 Posted by TooWalrus (13135 posts) -
@tsigo

I'm no lawyer, but my arguments for Epic would have consisted of listing out every game using the Unreal engine that released successfully, and then maybe calling SK a bunch of whiners.

Ha, this is almost exactly what I was going to say.
#129 Posted by Korolev (1700 posts) -

I had a feeling it would end this way. Unless Epic Games directly promised a very specific level of support, there wasn't a case for Silicon Knights. It really seems that this lawsuit was just an angry reaction to the fact that Too Human didn't do so well - and that's hardly the engine's fault. There were numerous design and gameplay problems with Too Human that hurt its sales. Valkyries anyone?

Given that other studios seem to make games with the Unreal Engine juuuuuuuuuuuust fine, I find it hard to believe Silicon Knight's claims that the engine was "unworkable". If they had got 5 or 10 other developers to side with them, they might have had a case - but they went alone, claiming that an engine that worked perfectly well for others was somehow magically "unworkable" for them. Maybe they just had bad programmers.

#130 Posted by PandaBear (1301 posts) -

@warrenEBB said:

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

#131 Posted by Hailinel (23873 posts) -

@PandaBear said:

@warrenEBB said:

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

The cutscenes in Twin Snakes were directed and choreographed by a Japanese film director that Hideo Kojima hired and had nothing to do with any creative decisions made by Silicon Knights. Silicon Knights really only did the legwork in coding and developing the game; the project as a whole was really Kojima's.

#132 Posted by PandaBear (1301 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@PandaBear said:

@warrenEBB said:

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

The cutscenes in Twin Snakes were directed and choreographed by a Japanese film director that Hideo Kojima hired and had nothing to do with any creative decisions made by Silicon Knights. Silicon Knights really only did the legwork in coding and developing the game; the project as a whole was really Kojima's.

I know that got come director ... but fuck they were so stupid. The part where Snake does a backflip off a missile was when I knew this was no longer a Metal Gear Solid game. I get that it was Kojima's game and SK did the legwork, but that's the best you can say about them - they did a good (not great) remake of an already great game. So one of the two best games they've made in the past decade or more wasn't even there's. SK get WAY too much press for B-grade developer. It's newsworthy for sure, but when was the last time anyone read "Silicon Knights working a game that looks and plays great and won't be delayed for years and years!"? Dyack needs to put his money where his mouth is and make a good game... right now the company is basically like a one hit wonder band trying to recapture their former glory and blaming their label for their new album being shit...

#133 Edited by Hailinel (23873 posts) -

@PandaBear said:

@Hailinel said:

@PandaBear said:

@warrenEBB said:

man this crushes my soul a bit. a lot.

I actually really dug Dyack's excessively brainy comments on the psychology and cultural failings of the uninformed opining on forums. I didn't follow his babble about a one console future (makes no sense from a "in the real world, where business compete" perspective). But I clung to this idea that he was a damned smart and interesting dude. Plus, I liked TooHuman (the beginning was weird and confusing. the middle was frustrating. but by the end it was extremely thrilling. I'm not convinced all the haters actually stuck with it).

Whenever this case has come up, I've been quick to defend SK. Mostly by reminding people of the historical context. (that this was about Unreal_3_ engine game development, in the year 2006. That SK gave a notoriously shitty demo at E3 that year, while Epic gave a Gears demo that blew people's socks off. And I thought it was also important to remember that TooHuman was on a short list of highly anticipated Xbox360 post-launch exclusives, alongside Halo3,MassEffect, and ShadowRun).

So when Dyack said "wait for the trial. everything will come out during the trial" - I waited with baited breath.

but now it all seems to be passing like a small fart. Mark Rein just drops a small tweet, that generates "articles" everywhere. And Randy Pitchford just tweeted a public diss on SK/Dyack's credibilty (by saying Randy is part of a group who knew Epic had the integrity to be validated by all this). And here Patrick Klepek points out that none of the court docs have come out, and they're hidden in this bullshit pay-to-view system. sigh.

fuckkkk. I find it very hard to acknowledge that this wasn't a david verses goliath case after all. and all these fucktards on forums who have been oversimplifying, and mangling the facts (for 5 years?) may still be basically right about SK in the end. feel kind of sick. Dyack's silence is DEAFENING.

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

The cutscenes in Twin Snakes were directed and choreographed by a Japanese film director that Hideo Kojima hired and had nothing to do with any creative decisions made by Silicon Knights. Silicon Knights really only did the legwork in coding and developing the game; the project as a whole was really Kojima's.

I know that got come director ... but fuck they were so stupid. The part where Snake does a backflip off a missile was when I knew this was no longer a Metal Gear Solid game. I get that it was Kojima's game and SK did the legwork, but that's the best you can say about them - they did a good (not great) remake of an already great game. So one of the two best games they've made in the past decade or more wasn't even there's. SK get WAY too much press for B-grade developer. It's newsworthy for sure, but when was the last time anyone read "Silicon Knights working a game that looks and plays great and won't be delayed for years and years!"? Dyack needs to put his money where his mouth is and make a good game... right now the company is basically like a one hit wonder band trying to recapture their former glory and blaming their label for their new album being shit...

Given that the series has seen the protagonists (Solid Snake, Raiden, and Big Boss) fight everything from a gas mask-wearing mind-reading psychic, to a supposed vampire, to a guy that shoots bees and another that forces Big Boss to walk across a river of the dead, to a quartet of supermodel mercenaries with severe psychological problems, doing a back flip off of a missile does not really strike me as being particularly ludicrous.

#134 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -

@Castermhief117 said:

@PenguinDust said:

$251.24 on lunch? That's crazy talk. This is the problem with the American judicial system. As a taxpayer (in another state) I am outraged.

You're taking it out of context. 251.24 for two days worth of lunches and for the whole jury (I don't know the size).

There's a goddamn movie called 12 ANGRY MEN

#135 Posted by Flashzappa (17 posts) -

That's like a negative Kickstarter, only worse.

#136 Edited by JP_Russell (1171 posts) -

$99 seems reasonable enough, but $251 for one lunch? The max size of a jury for civil cases is 12, I think, so that's like $21 per, at a minimum (more if the jury is smaller than that). Seems excessive for a single meal. The fuck did they feed them? You could get 12 whole pizzas for less than that.

#137 Posted by courage_wolf (207 posts) -

This is bullshit. When I was on a jury they didn't give me any food.

#138 Posted by galloughs (187 posts) -

lmfao

#139 Posted by Palaeomerus (354 posts) -

@runcrash said:

Where I live, in California, the plantiff is responsible for jury costs in a civil case. So Silicon Knights might be on the hook for those lunches.

Look for Denis Dyack on Kickstarter ANY TIME NOW.

#140 Posted by allworkandlowpay (874 posts) -

@PandaBear said:

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

Over the last decade, you chose to pick out a game that was given rather favorable scores (85% on Metacritic) and only criticize it on something that it actually had no involvement in, the cutscenes. Yeah, Too Human was flawed, and X-men Destiny was pretty much dead on arrival, but those aren't the sole contributions over the last decade. It did make one of the most memorable games of the Gamecube, Eternal Darkness (another game, by the way, which wide acclaim.) It made the excellent Legacy of Kain series, and contributed to a lot of different projects with other devs, including doing a lot of work on Darksiders. It's a shame that Too Human took up so much time and drained so much money from the company, because they could have probably done a lot more, and a lot better in this gen.

#141 Posted by PiltdownMan (75 posts) -

@BonOrbitz said:

@PiltdownMan said:

I just want Eternal Darkness 2.

I do too, but how do we know that SK would make a good Eternal Darkness 2? A lot has changed in 10 years...

A lot has changed but that game is still the only horror game that has actually made me play through it, the other games of the genre I have played through are the Onimusha series just because I like those, they may have come out before but I'm not sure. I'm not a real survival horror guy but I love slicing up guys as a samurai and I also love lovecraftain melancholy turning into madness...

#142 Posted by urban_ryoga (83 posts) -

@PiltdownMan: you played the 4th game?

#143 Posted by gunstarhero (67 posts) -

I did jury duty in the UK and all i got was £5 a day and I could only spend that in there cantina.

#144 Posted by catpowerd (149 posts) -

Guess he ain't gonna be Dolla Bill Dyack for much longer.

#145 Posted by mnzy (2911 posts) -

So, what did Rein have for dinner? This is sloppy journalism.

#146 Posted by PandaBear (1301 posts) -

@allworkandlowpay said:

@PandaBear said:

People are so quick to take the underdog's side (SK) ... maybe Too Human was always going to be a bad game regardless of it's engine? Their track record is spotty at best over the last decade - Twin Snakes is overrated (worst cutscenes in a MGS game, the game itself is good but it's hardly because they designed it, is it?), X-Men Destiny was a bomb and Too Human had FUNDAMENTAL gameplay flaws and shitty confused art style, regardless of technical issues. The only game people love of there's is Eternal Darkness... that was a decade ago.

Sour grapes from a middle of the road developer. Dyack is silent because an impartial jury said he was wrong. Now make a game worth a damn or give up.

Also the court docs being locked behind a pay wall is pretty standard stuff. Try looking up stuff from the patent office. It's admin costs, nothing too sinister.

Over the last decade, you chose to pick out a game that was given rather favorable scores (85% on Metacritic) and only criticize it on something that it actually had no involvement in, the cutscenes. Yeah, Too Human was flawed, and X-men Destiny was pretty much dead on arrival, but those aren't the sole contributions over the last decade. It did make one of the most memorable games of the Gamecube, Eternal Darkness (another game, by the way, which wide acclaim.) It made the excellent Legacy of Kain series, and contributed to a lot of different projects with other devs, including doing a lot of work on Darksiders. It's a shame that Too Human took up so much time and drained so much money from the company, because they could have probably done a lot more, and a lot better in this gen.

The best you could say about Twin Snakes is they remade a classic game. I mean it's not meant to be a dis, but it's not like they can take much credit for putting MGS2 controls in a better version of an already great game. Eternal Darkness is a GameCube launch title, it's well loved, but it's old now... people can't keep going back to that one game. Besides it had both Miyamoto and Iwata involved in it's creation. Legacy of Kain is awesome, it's also old and they made one game in the series. Crystal Dynamics did more for those games than Silicon Knights did. Once again that sounds harsh but if you look at the 2000s they have had one well recieved remake that many fans (that I know of) think is worse than the original (Twin Snakes), one modern classic (Eternal Darkness) and two duds (Too Human and X-Men Destiny). One good game, one great, two duds in 12ish years... Dyack gets a lot of press for being loud but SK doesn't get much for actually making good games.

As for their Darksiders work, who knows what they did? Game isn't theres and for all we know they did technical stuff... I'd wager the overall design of the game had little to do with them and they were more like a contractor. I just think it sucks he gets so much press for being middle of the road... After this set back it could be the end of them.

A lot of fans, myself included, think the cutscenes were just way out of place. Metal Gear is always bizarre, but those cutscenes made everyone look like they were in a kung fu movie from the 70s ... it was so disconnected from the game and the world around it. MGS cutscenes have their problems, but that game made it an absolute farce... that and the fact that MGS2 controls in that game made it a piece of piss.

#147 Posted by shodan2020 (659 posts) -

A $10 tip on almost $150 worth of food?! wtf?

#148 Posted by delrobertto (45 posts) -

Trolololol, cop that Dyak. never liked his attitude. He always spoke as if society and gamers needed to change and he knew all the answers, then he proceeded to put of Too Human and some crappy xmen game, all the while whinging about anything thing he could.

Cya mate cant say ill miss you.

xxoo

#149 Posted by PenguinDust (12450 posts) -

@Doctorchimp said:

@Castermhief117 said:

@PenguinDust said:

$251.24 on lunch? That's crazy talk. This is the problem with the American judicial system. As a taxpayer (in another state) I am outraged.

You're taking it out of context. 251.24 for two days worth of lunches and for the whole jury (I don't know the size).

There's a goddamn movie called 12 ANGRY MEN

In this case, 12 ANGRY HUNGRY MEN (maybe that's why they're so angry).

Seriously though, civil cases don't usually require a jury 12 and even when they do there are a number of alternates selected in addition to the dozen. So depending on the case and jurisdiction, the jury could be made up of as few as 8 and as many as 18.

My original post was a bit of sarcasm, but the internet is lousy for that sometimes. It occurs to me that I might have been fallen into a similar trap with this reply.

#150 Posted by dropabombonit (1484 posts) -

I'm happy that Epic won this. Silicon Knights are a over rated developer, I'm a big MGS fan and I think Twin Snakes is garbage. Even Kojima tries to pretend that it never happened. MGS plot lines and gameplay can be ridiculous but Snake kicking a rocket back in mid air slow motion Matrix style is just too much. Also never got on with Eternal Darkness, the gameplay was bad despite the interesting things they did with the story. Since then they have brought out 2 games that are awful, won't be surprised if the result of this court case will see them go out of business

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