How did Ryan and Brad have so little at the end? *spoilers*

#1 Posted by Vrikk (901 posts) -

(I read through the first two pages and didn't see something specifically addressing this, so apologies if it has been a thread in the recent past.) 
 
Before I get into this, I would like to say that I have never been a huge fan of this series. Mr. Peter is great at weaving up our hype and anticipation yet the games always fall flat. They are too short, too easy, and not a lot of meat to stories or quests. I believe I have beaten all three Fables in less than 20 hours a piece, and I did all the major quests I could. Yet, even when I say the series isn't good I have played all three because I like what they can be and what they represent to developers wanting to do something new and fun outside of the regular mold (but sadly never living up to their expectations). 
 
My question is this: How did Brad and Ryan only have between 100,000 and 400,000 people left at the end? I didn't do nearly half of the things that would constitute killing a lot of Albion citizens to make life better for everyone involved in the present time and I still had over three and a half million alive at the end.
 
Maybe they just sucked at the game, or didn't play the last part right? I understand the frustration with the choices you have to make; they are very counter-productive to what you want to do as a Hero. But... dunno, I usually side with the staff. Except for this time. I think they all got too angry at it.

#2 Posted by Tyashki (213 posts) -

If you tried to be nice and didn't go out of your way  to have a crapton of cash their experience seems easy to replicate.

#3 Posted by Capum15 (4903 posts) -

I managed to save everyone with all the Good options, and it wasn't that hard. I had to wait a while for money to pile up, but I decided to hunt all the Gnomes and the 51 keys I could get before the ending, along with wrapping up a few other side quests and opening a few Demon Doors. Didn't really even feel like I was waiting for the money.

As long as you buy a few businesses at the beginning (or near it), you should be pretty well set by the end if you don't rush through it. I can see how they got what they got, but eh...I guess it's just my style of playing that made it seem so smooth.

#4 Posted by Synthballs (2193 posts) -
@Tyashki said:
" If you tried to be nice and didn't go out of your way  to have a crapton of cash their experience seems easy to replicate. "
This 
 
@Capum15 said:
" I managed to save everyone with all the Good options, and it wasn't that hard. I had to wait a while for money to pile up, but I decided to hunt all the Gnomes and the 51 keys I could get before the ending, along with wrapping up a few other side quests and opening a few Demon Doors. Didn't really even feel like I was waiting for the money.As long as you buy a few businesses at the beginning (or near it), you should be pretty well set by the end if you don't rush through it. I can see how they got what they got, but eh...I guess it's just my style of playing that made it seem so smooth. "
At the beginning of the game, I didn't think I would need hundreds upon thousands of gold pieces and didn't bother with that stuff. it comes to a time where it is too late for things like that and it is really annoying.
#5 Posted by Karkarov (3109 posts) -

They had the issue because they invested nothing in a properties empire.  If you played Fable 2 and remembered that no properties = no money, thought "hey I might want a good bit of money down the road so I don't have to worry about it", or even just wanted to score some achievements you worked on buying houses and shops.   They simply didn't care about any that, put no effort into it, did not play anywhere close to completion.  Heck you get something like 4 mil gold just for being king and having all silver/gold keys.  Ultimately they did what 90% of all people who don't like Fable but play it anyway do, put in the minimum possible effort just to speed beat the game and say "I did that" then complain about what they didn't like.

#6 Posted by ArchScabby (5809 posts) -

I had to let my dude sit doing nothing for the time it took me to watch The Good The Bad and The Weird, and Macgruber, before I had enough gold to fill the treasury all the way, just because I wanted to be good.

#7 Posted by ky326 (255 posts) -

Maybe they had a lot of gold on their character and reached the point of no return before they could add it to their treasury.

#8 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3782 posts) -
@Karkarov:   Or maybe there are some people who like Fable and have no interest in bullshit economy and business-owning gameplay... for example people who played the first Fable which had none of that (aside from one house in each village).  Crazy, I know.  Some people want to play the Action-RPG like an Action-RPG.
#9 Posted by MildMolasses (3221 posts) -
@Karkarov said:
"They had the issue because they invested nothing in a properties empire.  If you played Fable 2 and remembered that no properties = no money, thought "hey I might want a good bit of money down the road so I don't have to worry about it", or even just wanted to score some achievements you worked on buying houses and shops.   They simply didn't care about any that, put no effort into it, did not play anywhere close to completion.  Heck you get something like 4 mil gold just for being king and having all silver/gold keys.  Ultimately they did what 90% of all people who don't like Fable but play it anyway do, put in the minimum possible effort just to speed beat the game and say "I did that" then complain about what they didn't like. "

You seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions about how they played and why they chose to do so. Maybe, just maybe, the game is flawed in that it doesn't explain things properly wherein it allows bad scenarios to arise where the player feels like things were completely out of their hands. 
 
Besides that, considering what they do for a living, they probably don't have the time to play every game methodically and dedicate how ever many hours are required to get the ending that they won't hate. Just because they didn't like a game doesn't mean that they  were somehow "playing it wrong"
#10 Edited by xyzygy (9997 posts) -
@Wrighteous86: There is plenty of Action RPG in this game. All you need to do in this game is raise money from owning shops, thats it. Make sure to buy them as soon as you can and keep the prices on medium or high and you don't have to worry about anything else. That's as simple as pressing like 2 buttons and you don't have to worry about it. I thought it was pretty evident that I should try to have as much money as I can, because you know, usually that's a goal in RPGs. To have lots of money so you are ready to buy new things when you find them. If that's lost on you then it's no one's fault but your own.
#11 Edited by WulfBane (194 posts) -

I'm pretty sure from the way Brad was talking on the podcast that he had the cash on his character but didn't realize that he passed the last chance to move the money from his personal account into the kingdom's account before it's too late.  I was replaying for the undieing achievement (I had stupid deaths on my first play through when I was trying to power up weapons) and while I was intentionally evil, I was paying strict attention to the fact that when you have 120 days left, you really only have one window to transfer the funds and can't do it on the "hey, tomorrow is when we celebrate you're 1st year as king" day.
 
I was also shocked that doing pure evil choices as King, you still only get about half the money you would need to save the kingdom.

#12 Posted by yani (413 posts) -
@WulfBane said:
" I'm pretty sure from the way Brad was talking on the podcast that he had the cash on his character but didn't realize that he passed the last chance to move the money from his personal account into the kingdom's account before it's too late."
  This is what happened to me.  Really annoying as I had the money and don't want to replay the whole game again.  Is the ending any different if you save everyone?
#13 Edited by Wrighteous86 (3782 posts) -
@xyzygy: You assumed that they didn't enjoy the game (despite loving the previous two) and just rushed through it to justify their negative feelings and slander their opinion.  I countered that there are people who enjoy Fable for everything besides it's "economic" gameplay, and that it's never been absolutely necessary before, to the degree that it is in Fable 3.   If Halo: Reach involved an economic sim, I'd probably avoid that part of the game too, considering I don't like that sort of gameplay.
 
Anyway, they've made it clear that the problem was lack of warning and that they were intending to do things later on, and the game jumped ahead almost at random, not allowing them to play the portions of the game that they wanted to.  It had nothing to do with "playing it wrong" when that situation is exactly what the developers intended - they just think that the developers' intention was a bad one.
 
Lionhead purposely made you think you had more time than you did, and then pulled a bait-and-switch.  They did this to force tough choices upon you, but it really weakens things when it's somewhat beyond your control on your first playthrough.  I didn't feel guilty or responsible at all, I felt cheated.
#14 Posted by xyzygy (9997 posts) -
@Wrighteous86: But you're making the money part of the game to be way more than it is. It's not a business-sim or economy-sim at all, all you need to do is invest in some shops, a feature which was available in Fable 2 and which you should have learned from Fable 2 that it's a good idea to invest in them. 
 
But I do think your right about Lionhead. While their intention about it was harsh, think about it in terms of the choices you make. Usually in most games you are told the consequences, the timeline, the options, and everything is set out for you so that the whole purpose of having a choice - and experiencing the consequences - is actually kind of ruined. But I mean, they still give you the choice just so that you can take that path in the game, not so you can actually live out the consequences, do you get what I mean? 
 
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Fable 3 is a game which is more in line with how we make choices in real life - we don't know when things will exactly happen, and we have to face the consequences. While we may not like what happened at the end of our playthroughs (if we didn't save all of the citizens), that's something we have to live with because that was our choice. Whereas in a game like Mass Effect, if we didn't like the choice, we could just reload the save and bend the consequences to our liking next time around. 
 
In this sense, the end of Fable 3 is actually quite ingenious. But in it's own nature it's very harsh and gamers who are accustomed to the reloading save ability won't appreciate it as much.
#15 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3782 posts) -
@xyzygy:   I appreciate what they were going for, and I'm glad that they basically say "Suck it up and deal with it", but I almost wish they didn't trick you then, and just said, "at some point in the future, shit's gonna go down", so you have to act like every day is the last day, and prioritize the things that are most important, to make sure they get done in time.  I understand your point-of-view completely, I just happen to disagree with it, or feel it could have been done better.
#16 Posted by Karkarov (3109 posts) -
@Wrighteous86 said:
" @Karkarov:   Or maybe there are some people who like Fable and have no interest in bullshit economy and business-owning gameplay... for example people who played the first Fable which had none of that (aside from one house in each village).  Crazy, I know.  Some people want to play the Action-RPG like an Action-RPG. "
Okay we will ignore the fact that the road to rule blatantly has chests that deal with "owning things" which sort of indicates in and of itself you might want to do that.  We will ignore that in Fable 2 if you didn't run properties you basically had little to no money. Heck lets toss out the fact that there is even an achievement for having a high value property empire.  When you become king you are told straight up to your face you need X amount of money in the treasury or you are hosed and if you make "good" moral choices you MUST get this money from your own savings.  There was no mystery at all what was going down and there is only one way to make real money in Fable 2 or 3 and that is a property empire.  The only surprise was how it skipped so many days and even when the "final event" started you could still turn around and interact with the kingdom's treasury before entering the portal and it WOULD work.  Is it the games fault for not screaming that in your face, I guess, but I didn't have the money in the bank at the last moment and figured it out on my own?
 
As for the "economic sim"... You highlight a building on a map and select buy then 3-5 hours later if it is a rented out house you come back and select repair.  That's it.  That is a pretty bare bones simple sim there.  You don't even need to buy anything but the shops unless you really want to and you will meet  the end game money quota easily.  I never did anything other than buy and repair, never even modded prices at all,  and by end game I had enough money to bankroll myself and two friends with ease.  The game asks you to do nothing other than use the tools it throws right in front of you, it isn't the games fault you ignored the ultimatum you got when you became king, it isn't the games fault that you didn't turn around and interact with the podium before entering the last portal maybe it should have made it more obvious but again I figured it out on my own couldn't have been that tough, it isn't the games fault that you chose to never buy a property even though there is absolutely no reason not to and it literally only takes seconds.  It is your fault.  
 
The biggest complaint about the game is how easy it is and this ending nonsense, yet making money is arguably even easier than playing the game.  Especially when you consider using the map feature you could buy an entire town in like 2 minutes then go right back to playing your "action-RPG" like it is an "action-RPG".
#17 Posted by Wrighteous86 (3782 posts) -
@Karkarov:   There were problems with that post, because I was making a point to someone else.  I have no interest in buying properties in games to make money.  In the post right above yours, I clarify that the problem is actually with the "lie" leading up to the end, and how I think it would've been more effective if you had a set number of days that the game didn't tell you, so every day could presumably be the last, and you'd have to prioritize all of your actions.  That way you'd know you'd have to get shit done, post-haste, and still realize that the stuff you save until later might not get completed.
 
But back to your argument against my statement, there's no debating the Fable series has changed from the first to the third.  My point was there are some series fans who fell in love with the first, and have no interest in the money-making stuff they've added in the sequels, no matter how quick and easy it is.  Also, most of the internet is bitching about having to do repairs on their properties, so clearly it was an irritation to more than just me.
#18 Posted by Capum15 (4903 posts) -
@Karkarov:  I agree wholeheartedly.

But I do agree that the one big problem I can see people having is the huge, seemingly random jump to the end-game at Day 121, with pretty much no warning. That part actually kinda sucks, and Lionhead could've explained that better (something similar to Auora's "We'll be gone for a while, so do anything you need to." warning).

Other than that, it's pretty simple. You don't even have to buy houses, just shops, and they don't need repairs. Just buy them and move on. If you still need money, go out and explore some more. Get keys, gnomes, open doors, do quests, etc...that's what I did.

It's also about a hundred times easier on a second playthrough if you have a second controller, my new character is only at the Reliquary (I don't even have ranged weapons available yet) and she has 6 million since my first guy was literally raking in the gold after the end. It's great to be able to transfer money like that.
#19 Posted by Jimbo (9815 posts) -

I was buying property as soon as I was able to and re-investing money into it right through the game.  The only way you're gonna end up saving everybody if you make all 'good' choices at the end is by a) knowing where the cut off is, and b) wasting a load of hours to let money pile up.  There isn't enough actual content to kill that time (other than perhaps scavenger hunt bullshit), so I bought most of the property in the game and then left it on overnight.  Any game that ever makes you consider doing that has already failed as far as I'm concerned.  If I'd known how awful the end of the game was going to be then I wouldn't have bothered.
 
Structurally, Fable 3 is a trainwreck of a game.  Most of the content is merely bland.  The mission where you get shrunk down just made angry - you don't get to mock the rest of the genre by making reference to 'spawning a standard hollow man encounter' when your own game consists of nothing but standard hollow man encounters.

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