Fallout: New Vegas... 50 Hours In.

Posted by cwdawg1224 (277 posts) -

Yeah, so I've been playing the game for about 50 hours now, and I've been enjoying it quite a bit... until now. At first, the only real problem I had with the game was that the karma system is absolutely god awful. It's just broken and completely illogical. Here's some bullets of what's happened with me and the karma system so far: 

  • The Powder Gangers start shooting at me from the beginning of the game, so I quickly gained a vilified reputation with them. So after finding one of their camps, and after defending myself when they opened fire on me, I went into the camp and walked up to a footlocker. The letters indicating the footlocker were red, and when I took some of the stuff, I lost Karma. Why is it not evil to take items off the enemy's bodies after I killed them but it is evil to take things out of their containers when they're not only dead but bad people themselves?
  • Some times when I shoot a random enemy, I'll gain karma, most frequently when I'd land a headshot in iron sights. Shooting someone in the head doesn't mean I have good morals, it means I have the skill to pull that off!
  • To test the previous example, I walked in to Good Springs and shot one of the citizens who lived there. Guess who gained Karma?!
Now, with the problems with the karma system out of the way, I want to address an even bigger, more concerning problem I've encountered with the game.  
 
WARNING!!! MINOR SPOILERS!!!  
 
So, for the main quest The House Always WIns I, you have to obtain the Platinum Chip that Benny stole from you and return it to Mr. House. So I do that, and I give the chip back to House (btw, I won a barter challenge to give me 1250 caps instead of 1000 for the return, but the game only gave me 1000 (?)). Now, The House Always Wins II requires me to have the Platinum Chip back in order to get into a secret base. The only problem is that House won't give me back the chip. The game literally won't allow me to go into a conversation with him. Every time I try to initiate one, he just tells me to go where the secret base is. The game is literally broken! How can I play a role-playing game when the game won't allow me to play the role I want to play? I played this 45-minute part three times before I decided to quit.
 
I was really having a good time with this game, just like when I was playing Fallout 3. But now, I really don't know if I want to play this game anymore. I'm so incredibly disappointed with this that I can't even stand to play any other part of this game. It's really a ridiculous, avoidable, frustrating shame.
#1 Posted by cwdawg1224 (277 posts) -

Yeah, so I've been playing the game for about 50 hours now, and I've been enjoying it quite a bit... until now. At first, the only real problem I had with the game was that the karma system is absolutely god awful. It's just broken and completely illogical. Here's some bullets of what's happened with me and the karma system so far: 

  • The Powder Gangers start shooting at me from the beginning of the game, so I quickly gained a vilified reputation with them. So after finding one of their camps, and after defending myself when they opened fire on me, I went into the camp and walked up to a footlocker. The letters indicating the footlocker were red, and when I took some of the stuff, I lost Karma. Why is it not evil to take items off the enemy's bodies after I killed them but it is evil to take things out of their containers when they're not only dead but bad people themselves?
  • Some times when I shoot a random enemy, I'll gain karma, most frequently when I'd land a headshot in iron sights. Shooting someone in the head doesn't mean I have good morals, it means I have the skill to pull that off!
  • To test the previous example, I walked in to Good Springs and shot one of the citizens who lived there. Guess who gained Karma?!
Now, with the problems with the karma system out of the way, I want to address an even bigger, more concerning problem I've encountered with the game.  
 
WARNING!!! MINOR SPOILERS!!!  
 
So, for the main quest The House Always WIns I, you have to obtain the Platinum Chip that Benny stole from you and return it to Mr. House. So I do that, and I give the chip back to House (btw, I won a barter challenge to give me 1250 caps instead of 1000 for the return, but the game only gave me 1000 (?)). Now, The House Always Wins II requires me to have the Platinum Chip back in order to get into a secret base. The only problem is that House won't give me back the chip. The game literally won't allow me to go into a conversation with him. Every time I try to initiate one, he just tells me to go where the secret base is. The game is literally broken! How can I play a role-playing game when the game won't allow me to play the role I want to play? I played this 45-minute part three times before I decided to quit.
 
I was really having a good time with this game, just like when I was playing Fallout 3. But now, I really don't know if I want to play this game anymore. I'm so incredibly disappointed with this that I can't even stand to play any other part of this game. It's really a ridiculous, avoidable, frustrating shame.
#2 Posted by afrofools (1313 posts) -

Hi, it's not about evil or good. The karma system is in relation to the gang you are with. The context shows up in red because it means you are stealing off someone and if they catch you the group they are associated with are going to be super-pissed off with you.

#3 Posted by cwdawg1224 (277 posts) -
@afrofools: Nope. I tried it by stealing a lot of things that belonged to the Legion, and after a while it dropped my overall Karma level from "Very Good" to "Good".
#4 Edited by JoeyRavn (4948 posts) -

Karma is rather useless in FNV, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you are playing on PC, you can download a mod that removes bad karma altogether. Also, certain factions are considered "good" or "bad" by the game... The Legion or the Powder Gangers are "bad", so you get Karma (i.e. you make the Mojave a better place) killing them.

#5 Edited by Tennmuerti (7998 posts) -
@cwdawg1224: Have you tried going to the secret base yet? Because the chip gets taken off you as soon as you enter Fort Hill anyway and you need to talk to Caesar and then he will tell you that the chip will be returned to you at the entrance so you can go inside. What happens when you get to fort Hill?
 
If this doesn't work you can kill Mr. House and side with one of the other 3 choices.
#6 Posted by afrofools (1313 posts) -
@cwdawg1224: I just got the game today, and after playing for several hours after making that comment I noticed what you are talking about. Definitely quite odd, but it isn't a huge problem for me, coz I don't care either way how they react to me, I'll just go with whoever respects me at any time.
#7 Posted by mzuckerm (351 posts) -
@cwdawg1224: I think the Karma system was purely a holdover from Fallout 3.  I think the system Obsidian wanted to include (and so it's much more developed) is the factional reputation system.  Having both of these things in the game isn't necessarily a bad idea, but one of them clearly got a lot more love than the other.  I hate it also that killing a guy causes good Karma but stealing his stuff causes bad Karma.  It's just nonsensical.
#8 Posted by zegolf (224 posts) -
@mzuckerm: That was my thinking, as well.  You can literally go into a place, steal everything, shoot all of the citizens in the face, and as long as you don't piss off any police officers, your "negative karma" will have no adverse effect on gameplay.
 
I never could figure out the karma system in the old game anyway, so I'm actually kinda glad that it's useless.
#9 Posted by cwdawg1224 (277 posts) -
@Tennmuerti: Yeah, the only problem is I killed Ceasar. I was already vilified with the Legion by the time I started the quest, so everyone at the camp immediately attacked me when I got to Fortification Hill where the secret base is. Since I did that, does that mean the only option I have is to kill Mr. House?
#10 Posted by cwdawg1224 (277 posts) -

Also, your Karma level does have an effect on the endgame. I'm not sure how much of an effect it has, but it's an effect nonetheless. 

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