Look, I love the game. I bought it and will replay it for a while. Yet, there are things that I didn't like about the game. Here goes.

Characters:

As much as I loved Hoyt, Vaas, Buck and that german dude who helps you towards the end, I found myself not liking Dennis and Citra. Dennis makes no sense and serves no purpose other than saving your ass, and by the end of the game, he asks you to '' cut off with your past ''. Yet, in the beginning, he's the one who helps you rescuing your friends. The fuck? Also, that part where he's drunk and tells you a bit of backstory leads absolutely nowhere as I thought it would. Oh, and he tries to kill you if you choose to leave the island once your friends are saved. Nice logic, Dennis.

Also, Citra. What the fuck? If you choose the wrong ending, she Mantis her way onto you and stabs you in the heart after some hot sex, saying your child will lead her tribe. Lead her tribe where? She lives in a remote, lost island with a total disconnect with the real world. Also, why killing you right after the sperminating? What if she ends up not being preggers? Also, if you choose the ''evil'' ending, she tells you to die like a warrior after she stabs you in the chest. I mean what? That's a warrior's death? To get randomly murdered by a psychotic chick who only wants your sperm? Denis and Citra ended up creeping the fuck out of me. And not in a cool way.

Skills and tats:

Ubi clearly wanted you to see your tats on your arm when you get new skills, yet be the second tier of the game, you're covered with a yellow-banded suit. Why even bother? As for the skills, why make a tech tree and limit the player with his abilities on purpose? I mean, there's no NG+, and once you've beaten the campaign, there's very little opposition to test those badass dual-takedowns-from-underwater. Actually, I never had one chance to pull it off. Why can't I unlock those cool and super useful takedowns+knife throws right off the bat? Most outposts and their enemy placement are built around these stealth mechanics.

Outposts:

They're fun to clear, sure, and it's nice that enemies don't reappear out of no where because otherwise, we'd have the same game-breaking hassle than in FC2. Problem is that by the end of the game, where you can roam around as you please, there's little to no confrontation to be found. What's the point of allowing you to keep going and unlock weapons and gear when you can't even have some fun with it? I should be able to reset the outposts at will, or have the pirates try and re-conquer them once you beat the main game.

Weapons:

Why are some weapons limited with their attachment? I don't get why I can't outfit my AK with a scope when there's clearly an attachment slot on its top. Weapons should have have pros and cons, and in this game, there are just better weapons than your favorite ones. The game tells me I should use that last tier Galil ( ACE ) instead of my trustworthy AK. That gun is better in every single way and eventually comes in for free. I could still use my AK, but I won't have the fun to outfit it with attachments because they decided it that way.

NG+:

Why not having a NG+ that allows us to carry everything we did into another campaign? I could keep my found treasures, relics and weapons, without having to scavenge hunt all over again. Or maybe just allowing me to restart the main missions at my leisure, with side-objectives just like in the recent AC titles. Right now, I can't. I'm forced to restart my whole progress if I want to re-experience some missions in the game.

That's it, folks. What are your beefs with this superb game, people?

NG+ is definitely something I wanted as well by the end or rather an option to restart the outposts because the actual story content is worthless and the real fun of the game in NG+ would be to clear outposts with your fully upgraded dude.

Especially for single player games like FC3, I think they should add a New Game + with everything completely unlocked. Why not allow crazy weapon mod combos? That will add more fun to the open ended, chaotic nature of games like this.

@EXTomar said:

Especially for single player games like FC3, I think they should add a New Game + with everything completely unlocked. Why not allow crazy weapon mod combos? That will add more fun to the open ended, chaotic nature of games like this.

Totally.

I wish there was more stuff with Vaas. And the side missions are terrible. Agree with your points, OP.

I have no intrest in a NG+ though.

- I can't stand the way every major confrontation takes place as some psychadelic dance-fight, and then you snap out of it to realize you killed the guy. In the case of Vaas, you don't even get to see him dead in "reality" - Citra just tells you he's dead. Kind of a bullshit end to a genuinely good villain. This game has a lot of great characters in it (not Jason's friends), who are kind of wasted ultimately.

- Why do they make your friends aggressively douchebaggy, with seemingly no reason? The game seems fully aware that they are idiots, but does nothing with it ultimately. When that Daisy girl calls you selfish for saying you were going to stay on the island, I wanted to go "what the fuck? Did I, or did I not defy death about a thousands times to save you useless cunts and get you to safety?"

- Jason's various moral crises about what he's "becoming" were super-lame. After he tortures Riley, for example - what is your problem? You're trying to maintain your cover, for the ultimate goal of getting your brother out of there alive - would Riley rather be dead, than get punched a few times for the cameras? It's not like you become some wanton serial killer - you're trying to help an oppressed people fight back against the dude who killed your brother and kidnapped your friends, and you're only shooting people who are shooting right back at you. Yet the game keeps playing up the idea that you're losing yourself with all of this killing. What was the alternative? Let Vaas kill all of you?

- The sudden heel-turn for Citra and the Rakyat, was totally unearned. They go from freedom fighters, to burning down some harmless drug addict's house, and leaving him to die?

When you first save Liza, and she seems genuinely unnerved about how easily you're killing people and seemingly enjoying it - I thought that was a great moment. It reminds you of the innocence you had at the beginning of the game, and also reminds you how all of this really can alter a person. But all of Jason's other moments of moral panic were extremely lame.

And there were some other silly story conveniences - Hoyt seeing your reunion with Riley anyway, despite the fact that the camera was supposed to be hacked, comes to mind.

I loved my time with the game, overall - don't get me wrong. But the story's quality just doesn't hold up after a pretty good first impression.

Oh - and when you finally confront Vaas on his island, and he somehow knows you were coming, and sets an elaborate trap for you? The fuck was that? The dude just finished burying your ass in a mass grave, after shooting you at point blank range, yet knew a) you were alive, and b) were coming for him? Lazy.

A part of what bothers me about FC3 is they have this awesome villain Vaas that you instantly have a hate for which is a good sign for a villain but then they cut him off half way through the story. Throughout any presentation and advertising for this game Vaas was the face of it all and yet he's cut down in a crappy drug induced QTE half way through the game and all you're left with is Hoyte who while menacing just doesn't have the same impact and Vaas. The story would've been better served if Vaas is left till the end, turns on Hoyte and kills him because he's sick of taking orders from him and you have to save your friends before he kills them.

@Klei: I would add that most of the voice acting is bad and your male friends are douches. Female characters are just boring and shallow. I liked the CIA agent and the double agent that helps you near the end of the game, but that's about it. FC3 improved upon every gameplay element of its predeccessor, but the story is equal, if not worse. The idea of transforming a character from a oward to a killing machine has a lot of potential, but apart from the intro, the execution is bad - you instantly become a killing machine.

That brings me to another thing I didn't like - the game is way too easy. Even on hardest difficulty setting, only a few story missions posed any kind of a challenge for me and I rarely play FPS's.

Oh, and, the fact that Vaas captures and tries to kill you a dozen times before he meets his end is incredibly annoying, they clearly had no idea what to do with the story.

@Scotto Lots of good points mate.

@whore_of_babylon Yeah, they clearly didn't know what to do with Vaas.

The story/writing was a total mess, which is almost customary so it's hardly ever worth pointing out, especially to those who play video games on a regular basis. At this point, we're all somewhat desensitized to terrible writing, so what does it matter if a plot hole or dopey concept goes by unnoticed. The only thing I can find partially redeeming within the story are some of the character performances, which despite the fact that the writing now seems like an afterthought, I give credit to the actors since it seems all the hard work inevitably falls on them.

Also, since we're on the topic of characters, the portrayal of the "native" people was pretty bad. They came across as simple, generic caricatures of other cultures. I had no sense of an underlying culture or history other than the generic stereotypes of noble savages intuiting the path based on a bunch of loose mysticism. Honestly, if you're not even going to attempt an explanation, why even put it in the game to begin with? If they just wanted an excuse to have an island, they could have easily populated it with mercenaries, contractors, etc. You don't need all this backstory, especially if it's poorly written. The expression is "Cut your losses," not "Hang your losses on a wall for others to see."

However, the one major criticism I have pertains to the gameplay itself. It's a general criticism, and by most standards is excusable given the sandbox nature of the game, but the pacing is overly simplified. It's far too easy to become overpowered in the game, trampling over the more subtler aspects of gameplay, all of which made the initial journey more interesting and enjoyable. Things that were necessary early on, essentially become redundant or irrelevant later on. Had they maintained that ebb and flow it probably wouldn't have been an issue at all, but the fact you can essentially depopulate the pirates/privateers from the world removes that essential counterbalance. Unfortunately, it seems most people can only make decisions in the "extreme," because based on the criticism of Far Cry 2 with the enemy density and respawn issues, apparently the developers thought it best to resolve the problem in the most diametrically opposed manner. I understand cutting the presence down, but I thought it was a little extreme.

Also, as someone already pointed out, it would have been interesting had they taken the "outpost liberation" aspect of gameplay and developed it further. Perhaps include radiant "siege missions" that would have allowed the enemy to retake an outpost, but within a reasonable amount of time. And if you fail in the mission, or disregard it entirely, the enemy gets their outpost back. Also, you could buy defensive resources that allow you to maintain control of an outpost, but it's limited, so you can only "buy" a limited number of outposts, which are never permanent in the sense that you have to continue to invest resources. It's not entirely realistic, but it would provide that necessary "push/pull" aspect to gameplay, which basically disappears entirely towards the end.

Anyway, it's still a great piece of tech, and playing cat and mouse with the AI in a tropical paradise has never been more satisfying.

I was thinking about the whole Dennis drunken rant. The only reason I can think of that it's there is to show his life before the island was empty and meaningless, but Citra gave it meaning. I'm guessing this is supposed to mirror Jason's life and therefore give weight to the final choice (ie, stay on the island where your life finally has meaning, or go home with your friends).

It also kinda helps explain why he attacks you at the end (kinda).

@MegaMetaTurtle said:

I was thinking about the whole Dennis drunken rant. The only reason I can think of that it's there is to show his life before the island was empty and meaningless, but Citra gave it meaning. I'm guessing this is supposed to mirror Jason's life and therefore give weight to the final choice (ie, stay on the island where your life finally has meaning, or go home with your friends). It also kinda helps explain why he attacks you at the end (kinda).

I sensed that too, but again, those exchanges were written so poorly (not grammatically, but intellectually and creatively), it was hard to get a deeper sense of what they were trying to say, if anything at all

@MegaMetaTurtle said:

I was thinking about the whole Dennis drunken rant. The only reason I can think of that it's there is to show his life before the island was empty and meaningless, but Citra gave it meaning. I'm guessing this is supposed to mirror Jason's life and therefore give weight to the final choice (ie, stay on the island where your life finally has meaning, or go home with your friends). It also kinda helps explain why he attacks you at the end (kinda).

I sensed that too, but again, those exchanges were written so poorly (not grammatically, but intellectually and creatively), it was hard to get a deeper sense of what they were trying to say, if anything at all

Reading this makes me really glad I didn't buy this game. I learned my lesson about buying Ubisoft games blindly after AC3.

@Lysergica33 said:

Reading this makes me really glad I didn't buy this game. I learned my lesson about buying Ubisoft games blindly after AC3.

Far Cry 3 is still a good game. What we're doing here is just decorticating its (not so relevant) problems.

@Klei said:

@Lysergica33 said:

Reading this makes me really glad I didn't buy this game. I learned my lesson about buying Ubisoft games blindly after AC3.

Far Cry 3 is still a good game. What we're doing here is just decorticating its (not so relevant) problems.

Yeah, the gameplay looks excellent, but I'm getting really tired of games that throw away all of their potential for a great story half way through, which is exactly what seems to happen in this game from what I've read. Having great gameplay is one thing but I'm the sort of person who needs more motivation to play than a map screen full of icons I haven't visited yet. If that motivation is squandered with silly story beats, out of place betrayals and half-baked mysticism, my desire to play gets lessened exponentially. Yeah, games are about the gameplay, but if you're going to include a story then you should at least have the self-respect to make it good.

I've gotten my fill of exploring the island and witnessing ambient events with the wildlife, but the characters are so annoying that I have no desire to continue with the story missions. I wish Jason would keep his mouth shut the entire game so I could forget who I'm playing as.

Might just wait for the patch that removes all the HUD elements before going back. I also left some of the outposts in enemy control knowing that there won't be anyone to fight if I complete them all. They should at least leave in some random patrols, otherwise the place becomes empty.

Yeah, I also found it odd that the deaths of Buck, Vaas and Hoyt all occurred in those weird QTEs. I also thought it was pretty ridiculous how many times you get captured by Vaas or others, just to miraculously escape.

I thought Willis, Buck, Vaas and Sam were pretty good characters though. Oliver didn't need to exist, but I didn't have any huge problems with Liza or Daisy (other than them calling you selfish when you leave. It's like, I just saved all of your asses. How am I selfish?). Citra's turn towards the end was out of nowhere. I knew there were going to be some issues with saving Riley once Dennis called to remind me that the tribe was supposed to be my family now. However, killing the Doctor and everything seemed way overboard. Also, why were my friends still on the island? I thought they were going to leave on the boat before I went to Hoyt's island?

The lack of confrontation after the ending of the game is a bummer. I had pretty much done all of the outposts before I finished the final mission, so I am left with no one to fight really. Just going around getting some of the exploration achievements, got all the Letters of the Lost. I feel like the game could have had more to do after the main story completion. Still, I really liked this game. It's probably one of my favorite games of the year.

@Scotto said:

- Jason's various moral crises about what he's "becoming" were super-lame. After he tortures Riley, for example - what is your problem? You're trying to maintain your cover, for the ultimate goal of getting your brother out of there alive - would Riley rather be dead, than get punched a few times for the cameras? It's not like you become some wanton serial killer - you're trying to help an oppressed people fight back against the dude who killed your brother and kidnapped your friends, and you're only shooting people who are shooting right back at you. Yet the game keeps playing up the idea that you're losing yourself with all of this killing. What was the alternative? Let Vaas kill all of you?

The "What am i becoming" was pretty self explanatory. Regardless of the reasoning behind torturing his brother, he STILL DID IT. Something he probably would have never even dreamed of doing before this whole thing happened. This is someone he cared about and took care of, someone who he wanted to save the entire game, and now he's beating him. His comment only came after he stuck his finger in his bullet wound, i'm pretty sure the comment was meant to address how sadistic he has become, being able to get creative with torturing is pretty sadistic, no? The fact that he even thought to stick his finger in the bullet wound was testament to how much he's changed through the game, thats what his comment meant.

The story peaked around when you get to killing Vaas and the ending is simply shit.

@Hellstrom said:

@Scotto said:

- Jason's various moral crises about what he's "becoming" were super-lame. After he tortures Riley, for example - what is your problem? You're trying to maintain your cover, for the ultimate goal of getting your brother out of there alive - would Riley rather be dead, than get punched a few times for the cameras? It's not like you become some wanton serial killer - you're trying to help an oppressed people fight back against the dude who killed your brother and kidnapped your friends, and you're only shooting people who are shooting right back at you. Yet the game keeps playing up the idea that you're losing yourself with all of this killing. What was the alternative? Let Vaas kill all of you?

The "What am i becoming" was pretty self explanatory. Regardless of the reasoning behind torturing his brother, he STILL DID IT. Something he probably would have never even dreamed of doing before this whole thing happened. This is someone he cared about and took care of, someone who he wanted to save the entire game, and now he's beating him. His comment only came after he stuck his finger in his bullet wound, i'm pretty sure the comment was meant to address how sadistic he has become, being able to get creative with torturing is pretty sadistic, no? The fact that he even thought to stick his finger in the bullet wound was testament to how much he's changed through the game, thats what his comment meant.

He wasn't doing it to be sadistic - he was doing it to look convincing, and retain his cover. Jason waffles on doing anything at all, until Riley essentially says "Come on! Just do it, I can take it! Just promise you'll come back for me!" Jason never shows sadistic tendencies in the game - the only people he's happy to plunge a knife into, are the people the game establishes deserve it - Vaas, Hoyt, and Buck. Hell, even your friends comment that Vaas should die, to you.

And yeah, he still did it. He had to do what he had to do, no matter how awful it was, because what was the alternative? Let Hoyt's men kill both of you? Even Riley understands that a few moments of excruciating pain is better than getting killed.

@Klei said:

I found myself not liking Dennis and Citra. Dennis makes no sense and serves no purpose other than saving your ass, and by the end of the game, he asks you to '' cut off with your past ''. Yet, in the beginning, he's the one who helps you rescuing your friends. The fuck? Also, that part where he's drunk and tells you a bit of backstory leads absolutely nowhere as I thought it would. Oh, and he tries to kill you if you choose to leave the island once your friends are saved. Nice logic, Dennis.

I think Dennis is a great character, he may be pointless as you say but he's right behind Vaas in the rankings for best character in the game. I'm disappointed he wasn't used more. I'd be up for some Dennis based DLC backstory.

My biggest gripe with the game is that it doesn't let you redo the last mission. I forgot to save before the final mission so if I want to see the other ending where I save Liza then I have to play through like 5 hours of missions and I'm not that desperate to see the alternate end.

It would be cool to get a new game + so I can play through the game on a harder difficulty with all my powers unlocked.

ok... here's something I just find out that really sucks that I could add to the "things I didn't like" category. I have collected 119 out of 120 Relics, with just 'Spider 1' missing. I couldn't find it anywhere on the map, so I decided to check the web for a hint. Turns out that it is in the cave where you stash your pals, and once that becomes unavailable as an area (after you kill Vaas) you can't get the relic. I am really hoping for a patch soon.

I thought the boss fights were lame and a huge let down. The poker game at the end, you just knew that he was going to spring a trap. That was really predictable. I really didn't care for the two options at the end. There was no reason for the natives to want to kill your friends and if the chick just wanted to bang then bang bang bang. Just got dumb at the end.

I found a lot of the skills to be useless so I don't see the need to have them unlocked early because you will get them early if you do the side missions and do more takedowns then general spray and pray. I do wish there was more attachments for guns and come on, three types of different scopes that do the same thing?

Anyway, I thought the game did a very well job with the balance. Not too many bad guys and not too few. The gear crafting was alright and I had that maxed out pretty early. And I had no problem with the friends. Not sure why people are so QQing about them. They barely are part of the game.

@sins_of_mosin: Actually, with the exception of the poker game, all the other points, beats, whatever, we pretty rote. The poker/showdown was predictable, in the sense you knew sabotaging Hoyt's operation wouldn't go unnoticed. And the fact he would still have time for a poker game in the midst of all this and not question your intentions, you would need some really dopey video game writing for that to make any sense. However, I still thought it was effective in building suspense. A little hokey in some parts, but I was still a little shocked when he offed Sam, and I knew it was coming. Maybe not in that way specifically, but something was definitely going to happen. I should always assume, at least in a video game, most characters are usually going to be bumped offed in the most violent, over-the-top ways. No one ever poisons a drink, it's just too subtle.

Also, I refuse to believe there's an alternative ending. You save your friends, that's really the only way the story can salvage any amount of coherency. I can't imagine just how flat and dull the alternative would be, and so far I've only heard negative things. Maybe it was thrown in there intentionally as a "fuck you" for being a selfish prick and picking the stupid ending, who knows.

Not having NG+ is a big problem, but then again Dishonored did the same thing. I love the game to death, but having NG+ would have been perfect.

I'm a dirty dirty cheater pants and have crafted a NG+ save via the use of a trainer with infinite money and unlocking all the guns. I wish there was a way to force the wingsuit, because having that early on would be awesome. Chose not to cheese the crafting and skill upgrades though, because that takes out a lot of the incentive in playing the game.

My biggest problem with the game is definitely the way they handle killing Vaas.. It seemed really unclear to me that Vaas even died.. I thought the whole knife fighting thing was some kind of dream and the real fight was yet to come.. I definitely didn't think they'd have me kill Vaas that early, leaving me with such an uninteresting villain for the rest of the game.. I found it confusing seeing Vaas opening his eyes after his death, and then waking up at the temple, having Citra telling me that i killed Vaas.. I would've felt better had i seen Vaas dead body, or something else that signified that he really died.. It didn't feel like i was supposed to doubt Vaas death, but the scene was just so unclear!

Okay, let me address some things here. First off Dennis. The point of Dennis' drunken rant and him as a character is that I thought he in particular was a clear harbinger to show how fanatical the tribe was. Dennis' entire ploy for helping you find your friends was that they were hoping that by helping you find your friends they could end up molding you into a warrior for their cause. Which, they did. Upon the news of Riley's "death" Jason in a blind rage loses complete sight of his original goal. Coldly shoving away his friends and deciding to stay on the Island for no other reason than a blood thirst for needing Vaas and Hoyt dead. Jason clearly "snaps back into it" once he realizes Riley is alive he starts to gain perspective on the person he has become. When Citra saw that you were slipping away from her she played her trump card and took your friends.

I think again Citra's heel turn was INSANELY obvious from the way way start of the game Vaas actually hints to her being insane. In the scene where you Oliver and Liza are strapped to chairs he tells you that the first time he ever killed was for his sister but that it was never enough for her. I think between that scene and Dennis' clear fanaticism that shouldn't have been a surprise at all. Honestly, everything is clearly clearly explained and I actually really enjoyed the whole romp. I think everyone's pining and expectation for some "twist" possibly let to some great disappointment for many.

I find myself less and less engaged with the game the further I go down the story. I liberated all the outposts, unlocked all the towers, skinned all the animals I needed to max my carrying capacity and did a few side missions... all in the first island. I've just moved onto the second and I don't think I really want to go through that again (well, not the skinning, really). The only real, tangible benefit for liberating outposts is having more fast travel locations spread through the island. And I've been using the same for weapons for most of the game now, so unlocking new ones isn't really of any concern to me.

But the story... meh. I don't find myself caring about any character (except for Vaas, who was killed in an extremely poor way). Your friends are douches, Dennis constantly speaks nonesensical bullshit, Citra is unbearable, Hoyt is your run-of-the-mill drug lord... The gameplay is good (apart from some of the aspects that the OP posted, like locking your skill progression through story missions), but I wouldn't consider Far Cry 3 GOTY by any means.

Edit: Bah, kept playing, become more and more bummed out by this game. The falling damage is ridiculous.

Sorry, Far Cry 3, you were nice for a while, but not enough for me to finish you.

@Klei said:

Outposts:

They're fun to clear, sure, and it's nice that enemies don't reappear out of no where because otherwise, we'd have the same game-breaking hassle than in FC2. Problem is that by the end of the game, where you can roam around as you please, there's little to no confrontation to be found. What's the point of allowing you to keep going and unlock weapons and gear when you can't even have some fun with it? I should be able to reset the outposts at will, or have the pirates try and re-conquer them once you beat the main game.

I agree on this. I was thinking today to keep the northern island my safe island where I can roam and do crazy stuff and the southern island be the place where I'm setting up road traps and ambushing people. I hate there is no more conflict at all once you pretty much have all the outposts. I've cleared all the northern ones already also. Nothing bad happens anymore besides two or three people walking on a beach. That isn't that much fun.

It seemed like they where going to have two separate singleplayer campaigns, one for each of the islands, but decided too late to combine them, tonally the North island did feel like Jason losing himself to save his friends, while the south island felt more like a spec ops or spy mission.

EDIT: Also I totally agree with Jeff, this game needed to get really, really weird; especially in the open world stuff, like bow hunting bigfoot or the haunted office building in Fallout 3.

First off them gameplay was better than most games that I am used to. It steered away from the normal shoot-em up games but not too far. Crafting was kinda fun but I was pissed I could only carry one gun early game so I immediately got the highest improvements I could along with many of the radio towers and outposts.

The story line was a little iffy for me. Most points were said above but I will go over them from my view

Dennis-Early on I thought "Okay this dude is going to be the mentor, walk me through the beginning." and he was never really there only one outpost take over with the Rakayat and his ramblings through out the game. Mid-game When I saw him drunk I figured he must have love Citra. And just before you gave a huge speech about how you were going lead the Rakayat to triumph, I figured you would be fighting against Dennis and his rebellion. I thought I was right when I saw the doc's house on fire, but I was very depressed when the game ended as it did.

Citra-Early I thought she was your average lady freedom fighting leader. Mid game For some reason I didn't really understand that Vaas was her brother, I mean I heard it, just didn't sink in I guess. It may have been the fact that Vaas nor Citra looked like they gave a damn about killing each other for any matter. The twist at the end was... different in both direction. She wants you to stay cuz she loves and then kills you. I could see leaving then she tries to kill you, but the character development went in a different direction then maybe we all thought.

Vaas-My favorite character in the game. Someone I enjoyed hunting down and trying to kil,l died way to early to be left with Hoyte. I figured that I was finishing the game when I killed him.

Hoyte-I thought he was going to turn into something more, extreme. As far as I cared he was a drug lord from a diamond mining family, if that is even right. The whole destroying his operations seemed as an insane way to try and 'keep under cover.' Like blowing up a comms dish and oil resivors wouldn't send some type of distress signal. And then you were suppose to just sit down and play a game of poker in the midst of all the chaos? Would have been better to have Sam turn on you for christ's sake.

The friends-To me they were just there. I didn't connect to Jason very well, maybe that was it. They seemed concerned that he was becoming a psychopathic killer. As seen through some of the interactions, but Jason seemed to have instantly grown away from them as he was fighting the enemies to save them. I was trying to figure out why Jason wanted to take Riley back to the friends because I figured that they had already left.

The missions were good, but I was waiting for the Rakayat's final battle with Hoyte (or Vaas would have been better) where you would kill him after taking over his compound by force with other Rakayat. The whole spec ops thing was pretty lame to me anyway, got old pretty quick. The Rakayat seemed to be a bunch of down to earth people stereotyped as savages. Didn't find any real back story or history to the island other than the world war letters and journals. Overall I will probably play it again. Hopefully co-op is better or at least just as good as campaign. Doesn't matter though I bought it for the map editor anyways.

@voltronadactylsaurusrex said:

I think the QTE sequence with Hoyt was the only one that made sense because of Jason's emotions at that point and that realization he gets afterwards. But all those other QTEs were just confusing.

I liked them. I totally got the idea that it was some mystical voodoo jungle power taking you over. Thats why i thought the "Bad" ending was the Good ending and the "Good" ending was the bad ending. Because by the point you reach the end of the game, your main character is prone to blacking out and murdering people uncontrollably. Think he could integrate back into society? Doesn't he even say as much if you take the good ending?

@Demoskinos said:

Okay, let me address some things here. First off Dennis. The point of Dennis' drunken rant and him as a character is that I thought he in particular was a clear harbinger to show how fanatical the tribe was. Dennis' entire ploy for helping you find your friends was that they were hoping that by helping you find your friends they could end up molding you into a warrior for their cause. Which, they did. Upon the news of Riley's "death" Jason in a blind rage loses complete sight of his original goal. Coldly shoving away his friends and deciding to stay on the Island for no other reason than a blood thirst for needing Vaas and Hoyt dead. Jason clearly "snaps back into it" once he realizes Riley is alive he starts to gain perspective on the person he has become. When Citra saw that you were slipping away from her she played her trump card and took your friends.

I think again Citra's heel turn was INSANELY obvious from the way way start of the game Vaas actually hints to her being insane. In the scene where you Oliver and Liza are strapped to chairs he tells you that the first time he ever killed was for his sister but that it was never enough for her. I think between that scene and Dennis' clear fanaticism that shouldn't have been a surprise at all. Honestly, everything is clearly clearly explained and I actually really enjoyed the whole romp. I think everyone's pining and expectation for some "twist" possibly let to some great disappointment for many.

Nail on the head. I was flabbergasted to hear that people were confused with the story. . It made sense to me. Now, im not saying it was some amazing story either, but i dont understand a lot of the people saying its terrible and that the characters made no sense. I didnt trust dennis from the start, he seemed too friendly, seemed like he had to have some ulterior motive. By the halfway point he's pulled open his trenchcoat and SHOWN you his ulterior motive, plain as day! Its pretty obvious everyone is using you.

@Phished0ne: Indeed. And agreed its not some fantastic work that were going to prop up as a source of great video game stories but everything in the story was clearly explained if you were paying attention. Really the only thing that left me scratching my head was how at the poker game it jumped from Hoyt playing poker with you after he stabbed sam to suddenly you battling Hoyt to the death with knives and all his men are suddenly dead. THAT wasn't explained at all as far as I could tell. But really for what it was it was damn entertaining enough to hold my attention and make me want to know what was next.

@Phished0ne said:

@voltronadactylsaurusrex said:

I think the QTE sequence with Hoyt was the only one that made sense because of Jason's emotions at that point and that realization he gets afterwards. But all those other QTEs were just confusing.

I liked them. I totally got the idea that it was some mystical voodoo jungle power taking you over. Thats why i thought the "Bad" ending was the Good ending and the "Good" ending was the bad ending. Because by the point you reach the end of the game, your main character is prone to blacking out and murdering people uncontrollably. Think he could integrate back into society? Doesn't he even say as much if you take the good ending?

@Demoskinos said:

Okay, let me address some things here. First off Dennis. The point of Dennis' drunken rant and him as a character is that I thought he in particular was a clear harbinger to show how fanatical the tribe was. Dennis' entire ploy for helping you find your friends was that they were hoping that by helping you find your friends they could end up molding you into a warrior for their cause. Which, they did. Upon the news of Riley's "death" Jason in a blind rage loses complete sight of his original goal. Coldly shoving away his friends and deciding to stay on the Island for no other reason than a blood thirst for needing Vaas and Hoyt dead. Jason clearly "snaps back into it" once he realizes Riley is alive he starts to gain perspective on the person he has become. When Citra saw that you were slipping away from her she played her trump card and took your friends.

I think again Citra's heel turn was INSANELY obvious from the way way start of the game Vaas actually hints to her being insane. In the scene where you Oliver and Liza are strapped to chairs he tells you that the first time he ever killed was for his sister but that it was never enough for her. I think between that scene and Dennis' clear fanaticism that shouldn't have been a surprise at all. Honestly, everything is clearly clearly explained and I actually really enjoyed the whole romp. I think everyone's pining and expectation for some "twist" possibly let to some great disappointment for many.

Nail on the head. I was flabbergasted to hear that people were confused with the story. . It made sense to me. Now, im not saying it was some amazing story either, but i dont understand a lot of the people saying its terrible and that the characters made no sense. I didnt trust dennis from the start, he seemed too friendly, seemed like he had to have some ulterior motive. By the halfway point he's pulled open his trenchcoat and SHOWN you his ulterior motive, plain as day! Its pretty obvious everyone is using you.

It doesn't change the fact that, for me, Dennis and Citra are two badly developed characters that, ultimately, serves very little purpose. And yes, they turn out to be nonsensical. Even if you try to blame insanity on them, this isn't insanity, this is megalomania. Why Citra would want your child? To lead her tribe where exactly? She lives on a small, sorry-ass remote island. What of Dennis? He clearly hints he's mad in love with Citra, and yet, he wants to kill you for leaving her. What?

@Klei: He thinks you disrespected her for choosing your friends over her. I don't see what is so hard to grasp about why he wants to kill you at that point. And she wants your child because she wants someone to lead the tribe into the future. Vaas was supposed to be the leader but ended getting exiled from the tribe. Again, I think they pretty clearly spell this stuff out and everyones roles in the story seem pretty clearly defined to me. Its not an amazing story by any stretch but its not nearly as confusing as everyone is trying to make it sound.

Add:

• QTEs
• Unskippable in-game cutscenes.
• Getting knocked down when attacked in close-range by enemies
• Dream sequences
• The plot
• "Cannot connect to Uplay services" every time I go into the damn menu

to the list.

Basically, the game is awesome if you downright refuse to do the main quest.

@Demoskinos said:

@Klei: He thinks you disrespected her for choosing your friends over her. I don't see what is so hard to grasp about why he wants to kill you at that point. And she wants your child because she wants someone to lead the tribe into the future. Vaas was supposed to be the leader but ended getting exiled from the tribe. Again, I think they pretty clearly spell this stuff out and everyones roles in the story seem pretty clearly defined to me. Its not an amazing story by any stretch but its not nearly as confusing as everyone is trying to make it sound.

What's so hard to grasp is the sudden change of heart. Citra wants to help you when you mention that your brother was killed and the other was abducted. Same for Dennis, when he hears about your friends. They both want to give you the tools to save your loved ones and even seem to have empathy towards your cause. Yet, by the end, Dennis turns out to be a nutjob and Citra kidnaps your friends, while killing the stoner doctor. Something's missing. Because if, really, this is how it was all planned out to be, then the story just sucks. It kickstarts with a lot of fire and steam only to choke and die with lame resolutions.

Oh and, about Citra's rape of your penis. As soon as you eject your man-juice, she stabs you. She calls that a warrior's death? To be drugged, sexed to death and then stabbed? Dying like a warrior would be more like, on the battlefield, arms in hand, wouldn't it? Also, why does she offer you the '' special tattoo '' only to kill you right afterwards? What if she ends up not preggers? And what makes you special, to begin with? The fact that you're a dude on drugs who kills people? Nothing indicates that the tattoos actually gives you special powers, to begin with. You kill people with or without your tats.

There is so much that doesn't ring with this game's storyline that it gets frustrating. Vaas being criminally underused is the worse offender of them all.

Thing I didn't like: There are two works that video games should never be allowed to reference again: The Heart of Darkness (and by association Apocalypse Now) and Alice in Wonderland. That shit is just so embarrasingly clichéd at this point. We get it, he is "going down the rabbit hole", what a clever metaphor for madness.

@Klei: Again, their motivations for helping you are clear. They wanted to turn you into a warrior for their cause. They thought by helping you find your friends they could eventually win you over to their cause which until you found riley was successful. I'll give you that I think Vaas was underused but still I'd rather be left wanting more than have him show up constantly and end up being bored with him. And yeah Citra stabbing you during sex does make no sense logically but again THAT is the point is to show you that they are just a tribe of essentially religious nut-jobs who believe all this insane bullshit. There is a direct reason the Alice in Wonderland quotes are used and its simply because the journey Jason takes is going from a world with reason to being thrown into this island where you've got sociopathic pirates, and religious zelot tribesmen in a war with each other. One side wants you dead and the other thinks for whatever reason you are essentially a prophet or something. Everyone on the island is their own brand of crazy.

Citra's turn out of nowhere could be seen early if you distrusted the Rakyat or saw them as a "sect/cult" thing. Actually, I was more surprised with the stabbing section than with Citra turning Jason against his friends. In fact, it is clearly stated after you kill Vaas that Citra wants you to stay and forget your friends. She then sees that Jason is tied with his friends and proceeds to use a radical method to convince Jason.
The final "scene" in which you walk through the fire with all those rakyat warriors kneeling before you can be taken as Jason fighting against the drugs influence. He barely wakes before slicing Liza's throat up. 

@Demoskinos said:

@Klei: Again, their motivations for helping you are clear. They wanted to turn you into a warrior for their cause. They thought by helping you find your friends they could eventually win you over to their cause which until you found riley was successful. I'll give you that I think Vaas was underused but still I'd rather be left wanting more than have him show up constantly and end up being bored with him. And yeah Citra stabbing you during sex does make no sense logically but again THAT is the point is to show you that they are just a tribe of essentially religious nut-jobs who believe all this insane bullshit. There is a direct reason the Alice in Wonderland quotes are used and its simply because the journey Jason takes is going from a world with reason to being thrown into this island where you've got sociopathic pirates, and religious zelot tribesmen in a war with each other. One side wants you dead and the other thinks for whatever reason you are essentially a prophet or something. Everyone on the island is their own brand of crazy.

Oh, absolutely everyone got why it was there, it's just so goddamn lazy and done to death. If they could have worked in a line about not being in Kansas anymore, they could have gone for the trifecta of overused references.