[Spoilers] Plot/Ending discussion

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#52 Posted by Giantstalker (1634 posts) -

I liked the game, but I think it got pretty confused partway on what it was trying to be (story-wise). The characters, contexts, settings, and activity don't seem to fit very well together. Gotta say I liked the storyline in Far Cry 2 better, even if 3 clearly has better characters and dialogue.

The whole thing also hinges on the protagonist making a lot of really, really dumb decisions over the course of events. Like, "go with the flow" taken to a ludicrous extreme. Speaking of, does doing better in the poker game actually change anything? I have no idea how to play it so that whole sequence was just confusing as hell. Any way to keep that finger?

#53 Posted by MB (12273 posts) -

@Hellstrom said:

...suddenly its "Oh sorry little brother, i would do anything for you EXCEPT reject a half naked tribal woman, you die now". Please, the bad ending was completely pulled out of nowhere. Not to mention how he often talked about how they took care of each other, and how he reacted when he thought Riley was dead. I'm sorry but some half naked chick he just met doesn't destroy a bond between brothers like that so fast, its crap.

To me, that part was more about how Citra, the drugs, and the island itself had completely taken over Jason by that point and he was no longer the person he was when the skydiving incident happened. He was changed, and the same things that were once so important to him (his life back in the real world, his family) were now nothing compared to the power of the tatau and leading a life as the leader of these people with Citra by his side.

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#54 Posted by Grillbar (1814 posts) -

there was a thing i really wanted to happen

when i saw the part where you kill vaas in your hazy drung dream thingy vass and jason kinda flipped back and forwards. i really wanted vaas and buck, hoyt, that american spy who's name i cant remember and sam to be a imaginary an illusion.

i know this is poorly explained but basically i wanted jason to be insane and the the guy behind it all without knowing and just destroying everything while believing he had magical powers.

kinda in the veins of spec ops the line
#55 Posted by CJduke (788 posts) -

@Incapability said:

Having just completed it, I think the writing was not a strong point for the game. It's going to be a wall of text, deal with it.

The story felt like they ran out of time, money and ideas, all at once. It starts off alright, with you being captured with your scumbag rich kid friends, by a seemingly enormous local gang of pirates. How the gang actually got to the island, and how they thought the island was deserted is beyond me. A lot of that whole story doesn't add up in any meaningful way, and ultimately, it's not important. Vaas, the leader of the pirates, introduces you to his own little slice of paradise. Vaas, as a character, is fantastic and well realized, which is a shame, because he doesn't actually get much air time before he's killed off and replaced with some other schmoe.

I wonder why both cover art, marketing efforts and so much communication around the game focused so much on Vaas, when he ultimately plays such a small role. It's a real shame, because he's actually a great character. This is also considering that you never really get to care about Jason's (the protagonist) friends or brothers. You simply aren't given any incentive for why it's important to save them, or given any emotional investment in them, as you don't even get to meet or interact with them before you're all kidnapped. You start the game off thinking they're a bunch of scumbags, and it sort of just continues down that road.

Regardless, Jason starts off as a whiny, incapable rich kid who got in too deep. His brother, a real bro, actually says "This is what they teach us in the military bro." as one of his first, and only, lines. I wonder if Jason and his brothers and friends, were thought up so that some target audience that's not me, could identify with the main character and his friends. I sort of feel like that's the answer, but I never identified or emphasized with Jason throughout the game. Regardless, the game quickly goes down the racist rabbithole, both in the sense of terrible Alice In Wonderland quotes, littered across the game for no discernible reason, or a reason that may have been cut some time during development, but also in the sense of the enemies being "dark skinned pirate dudes with bad accents on a tropical island who smoke meth and kill people for fun." In contrast to the all-white cast of young, adorable, heroic American tourists.

Along with that heroism, Jason also quickly develops into a genocidal mass murderer, because of his sweet tatau, given to him by Dennis, a friendly US Marine who is apparently also a mechanic from Liberia, who can't really ever get his story straight. Ultimately, it's unimportant, because Dennis is quickly discarded as a character with any real connection to the story.

Everyone with a skin colour other than brite-white is portrayed in some sort of horrible fashion, in that they're either uncivilized, poor, barbaric, drug abusers or all of them. It's pretty gross. The exception, naturally, is Citra, the young uncivilized and barbaric drug abusing leader of the local fucking tribespeople. However, not wanting to alienate the players, her dark skin colour is offset by her looking more or less like a white person in the middle of a bunch of tattooed Samoan dudes. She is also given blue eyes, to ensure that the player feels comfortable and white throughout. It's a bit gross, too.

Anyway, as things start popping off, and you get your sick tatau (urgh) you are tasked with finding your friends, enlisting the help of some weird drug abusing white guy who is of almost no consequence to the entire story. With regards to the other white people in this story, they're all mercenaries, but unlike the local pirates, they aren't stupid, or drug abusers. They act more professional, are tougher to kill, and looting them grants you luxuries such as "Toothpaste" or "Chocolate bar" rather than "Meth pipe" or "Cocaine packet." Again... it's... sort of icky. Your friends are total dudebros that you do not care for, and as you assemble them in a cave without access to food or clean water, they sort of just start smoking cigarettes and fixing an old boat to "get off the island." - which makes perfect sense, considering you have a fucking phone, a black credit card and a tablet computer. You have every fucking reason, opportunity and ability to call for help or get off that island. But no, the tatau wants you to stay and murder the locals.

As the story progresses, and as Vaas is killed in a sort of drug-induced cutscene press-X-to-win kinda deal, you're left wondering if that's really it, or if you just had a dream. You sort of hope his death was just a dream, because it was a pretty unimpressive way to go. Unfortunately, it's real. You're left to deal with some guy named Buck, who wants you to go on a weird Tomb Raider-y mission to find a secret Chinese compass infused with WWII magic, which is weird, because the island was apparently under Japanese control - regardless, it is eventually revealed to you that Buck is some sort of weird rapist, who raped your friend, and confronts you with his pants down, and an explicit desire to rape you as well. It's... yeah.

Regarding that point, saving your friends, you have no incentive to save them, as I said before. None. Furthermore, saving your friends releases these dumbfoundingly horrible sequences with dubstep and poorly written-and-executed wisecracks that go against the whole tone of the game. First your friends are all like "Oh, bro, this is some terrible shit, I'm going to break down crying!" - the next, they're all cracking wise and murdering people while fistbumping and highfiving. Then when you end the mission, they're all sad and scared again.

Ultimately, the final boss, the mercenary leader, is finally presented for you to kill in another press-X-to-win cutscene. The boss, a guy in a nice ladies blazer, gold chain and Hawaiian shirt, is sort of presented here and there, and you aren't really given much information about him, nor reason to feel anything but indifference about him. Maybe disgust, by virtue of him being so poorly written. The thing connecting you to him is eventually also some... CIA-guy in a suit someone took a piss on, with awful wispy facial hair and dumb lines. That guy was awful. Anyway, it ends up in a poker game, where you, and some German dude named Sam who has an iron cross tattooed on his chest (what the fuck) who is either delusional or a Marine, or both, play for about 500 dollars. Because poker. With a fucking mercenary warlord and two other random dudes. Similar to every other character in the game, the German dude isn't given a lot of context or meaning, and is just there to poorly read German lines and shout "BLITZKRIEG!" every once in a while. Again... urgh.

Anyway, the goal of the poker game is eventually to do as the game prompts, which is simply "PRESS Q TO BET LIFE" - doing so a few times means you get a finger cut off, and... then you enter another press-X-to-win cutscene where you kill the mercenary captain. This prompts you to become a warrior of the previously mentioned tribe, get a final tatau, do some drugs and choose between slitting the fucking throat of your girlfriend with an ancient Chinese knife that maybe is from World War II but maybe not and maybe it's Japanese but nobody really knows except Buck who was a rapist that you killed for being rapey and sending you on dumb quests and oh god, and just, uh, reuiniting with your friends, while the tribe just whines at you and says "Please don't go, Jason! :("

Oh, and uh, the ending where you slit the throat of your girlfriend, you are granted a dumb and toe-curlingly bad and awkward first person sex scene, after which you are promptly killed.

Whatever ending you choose, you are simply dropped back into the island with a small notification box that says "CONTINUE EXPLORING ISLAND?" with the only real option being "Yes."

-

What does all this have to do with... well, with anything? What's the deal with the Rorschach stuff, the weird dreams, the drugs, the implication that you are Vaas, and in reverse? The only way that story could have made any sense, was if the ending revealed that you're some sort of coma patient on tainted drugs in the Matrix.

Unfortunately, you get the weird first person sex scene instead.

I had some fun with that game, but the story and context was just... man. They shouldn't have done that.

You can learn about how they got to the island by taking some kind of drugs down in your friends hide out that give you flashbacks. It shows them in Bangkok at a night club. There was 3 flashback sequences I saw.

#56 Posted by CJduke (788 posts) -

@HoboZero said:

So I enjoyed the game so much that I immediately started another playthrough (the fact that there is a single remaining relic in an unreachable cave helped the decision), and I am noticing a lot of things that tease the ending that I missed my first time around.

In the first cabin you and Grant pass through there is a picture of Citra's face that someone has repeatedly slashed with a knife

I had forgotten how Dennis tells you when you first meet him that his "will is set on one woman". It was obvious by the end of the game who he was talking about, but I hadn't noticed how early they had been seeding the idea.

When you and Liza are tied up, before Vaas tries to light you on fire, there is a TON of out of context exposition:

  • Vaas says it's too bad Citra gave you "that ink", because now he can't kill you: "now the only way to kill you is to erase you completely" (maybe acknowledging Jason's "player avatar" status? Maybe not - the line is definitely odd)
  • Vaas rants about family, about his crazy sister and her forcing a horrible choice on him ("Them or me! Me or them!"), even commenting on the absurdity of the choice, "like they f***ing think I need to make a f***ing choice". Aludes to Vaas and Jason being given similar choices by Citra, and reinforces the Vaas/Jason symmetry.

It was interesting playing through the first Citra-induced drug trip again - like seeing how they had teased the whole Riley/Hoyt situation early in the game, right down to the playing card imagery. I'm looking forward to seeing what else I missed the first time.

Good catches! I really wish that Vaas had a bigger part, or at least onc ehe died I wisht hey had made him keep talking to Jason in Jason's mind, because it was totally clear that what happened to Vaas was the same thing that was happening to Jason. Citra ruined both of them with the tatau and the drugs

#57 Edited by NicolasVH (56 posts) -

Maybe Vaas isn't dead after all... If you think about it, we really didn't see him get murdered (for real), did we?

Shocking DLC coming soon to reveal it all!

#58 Posted by believer258 (11800 posts) -

@Incapability said:

Having just completed it, I think the writing was not a strong point for the game. It's going to be a wall of text, deal with it.

The story felt like they ran out of time, money and ideas, all at once. It starts off alright, with you being captured with your scumbag rich kid friends, by a seemingly enormous local gang of pirates. How the gang actually got to the island, and how they thought the island was deserted is beyond me. A lot of that whole story doesn't add up in any meaningful way, and ultimately, it's not important. Vaas, the leader of the pirates, introduces you to his own little slice of paradise. Vaas, as a character, is fantastic and well realized, which is a shame, because he doesn't actually get much air time before he's killed off and replaced with some other schmoe.

I wonder why both cover art, marketing efforts and so much communication around the game focused so much on Vaas, when he ultimately plays such a small role. It's a real shame, because he's actually a great character. This is also considering that you never really get to care about Jason's (the protagonist) friends or brothers. You simply aren't given any incentive for why it's important to save them, or given any emotional investment in them, as you don't even get to meet or interact with them before you're all kidnapped. You start the game off thinking they're a bunch of scumbags, and it sort of just continues down that road.

Regardless, Jason starts off as a whiny, incapable rich kid who got in too deep. His brother, a real bro, actually says "This is what they teach us in the military bro." as one of his first, and only, lines. I wonder if Jason and his brothers and friends, were thought up so that some target audience that's not me, could identify with the main character and his friends. I sort of feel like that's the answer, but I never identified or emphasized with Jason throughout the game. Regardless, the game quickly goes down the racist rabbithole, both in the sense of terrible Alice In Wonderland quotes, littered across the game for no discernible reason, or a reason that may have been cut some time during development, but also in the sense of the enemies being "dark skinned pirate dudes with bad accents on a tropical island who smoke meth and kill people for fun." In contrast to the all-white cast of young, adorable, heroic American tourists.

Along with that heroism, Jason also quickly develops into a genocidal mass murderer, because of his sweet tatau, given to him by Dennis, a friendly US Marine who is apparently also a mechanic from Liberia, who can't really ever get his story straight. Ultimately, it's unimportant, because Dennis is quickly discarded as a character with any real connection to the story.

Everyone with a skin colour other than brite-white is portrayed in some sort of horrible fashion, in that they're either uncivilized, poor, barbaric, drug abusers or all of them. It's pretty gross. The exception, naturally, is Citra, the young uncivilized and barbaric drug abusing leader of the local fucking tribespeople. However, not wanting to alienate the players, her dark skin colour is offset by her looking more or less like a white person in the middle of a bunch of tattooed Samoan dudes. She is also given blue eyes, to ensure that the player feels comfortable and white throughout. It's a bit gross, too.

Anyway, as things start popping off, and you get your sick tatau (urgh) you are tasked with finding your friends, enlisting the help of some weird drug abusing white guy who is of almost no consequence to the entire story. With regards to the other white people in this story, they're all mercenaries, but unlike the local pirates, they aren't stupid, or drug abusers. They act more professional, are tougher to kill, and looting them grants you luxuries such as "Toothpaste" or "Chocolate bar" rather than "Meth pipe" or "Cocaine packet." Again... it's... sort of icky. Your friends are total dudebros that you do not care for, and as you assemble them in a cave without access to food or clean water, they sort of just start smoking cigarettes and fixing an old boat to "get off the island." - which makes perfect sense, considering you have a fucking phone, a black credit card and a tablet computer. You have every fucking reason, opportunity and ability to call for help or get off that island. But no, the tatau wants you to stay and murder the locals.

As the story progresses, and as Vaas is killed in a sort of drug-induced cutscene press-X-to-win kinda deal, you're left wondering if that's really it, or if you just had a dream. You sort of hope his death was just a dream, because it was a pretty unimpressive way to go. Unfortunately, it's real. You're left to deal with some guy named Buck, who wants you to go on a weird Tomb Raider-y mission to find a secret Chinese compass infused with WWII magic, which is weird, because the island was apparently under Japanese control - regardless, it is eventually revealed to you that Buck is some sort of weird rapist, who raped your friend, and confronts you with his pants down, and an explicit desire to rape you as well. It's... yeah.

Regarding that point, saving your friends, you have no incentive to save them, as I said before. None. Furthermore, saving your friends releases these dumbfoundingly horrible sequences with dubstep and poorly written-and-executed wisecracks that go against the whole tone of the game. First your friends are all like "Oh, bro, this is some terrible shit, I'm going to break down crying!" - the next, they're all cracking wise and murdering people while fistbumping and highfiving. Then when you end the mission, they're all sad and scared again.

Ultimately, the final boss, the mercenary leader, is finally presented for you to kill in another press-X-to-win cutscene. The boss, a guy in a nice ladies blazer, gold chain and Hawaiian shirt, is sort of presented here and there, and you aren't really given much information about him, nor reason to feel anything but indifference about him. Maybe disgust, by virtue of him being so poorly written. The thing connecting you to him is eventually also some... CIA-guy in a suit someone took a piss on, with awful wispy facial hair and dumb lines. That guy was awful. Anyway, it ends up in a poker game, where you, and some German dude named Sam who has an iron cross tattooed on his chest (what the fuck) who is either delusional or a Marine, or both, play for about 500 dollars. Because poker. With a fucking mercenary warlord and two other random dudes. Similar to every other character in the game, the German dude isn't given a lot of context or meaning, and is just there to poorly read German lines and shout "BLITZKRIEG!" every once in a while. Again... urgh.

Anyway, the goal of the poker game is eventually to do as the game prompts, which is simply "PRESS Q TO BET LIFE" - doing so a few times means you get a finger cut off, and... then you enter another press-X-to-win cutscene where you kill the mercenary captain. This prompts you to become a warrior of the previously mentioned tribe, get a final tatau, do some drugs and choose between slitting the fucking throat of your girlfriend with an ancient Chinese knife that maybe is from World War II but maybe not and maybe it's Japanese but nobody really knows except Buck who was a rapist that you killed for being rapey and sending you on dumb quests and oh god, and just, uh, reuiniting with your friends, while the tribe just whines at you and says "Please don't go, Jason! :("

Oh, and uh, the ending where you slit the throat of your girlfriend, you are granted a dumb and toe-curlingly bad and awkward first person sex scene, after which you are promptly killed.

Whatever ending you choose, you are simply dropped back into the island with a small notification box that says "CONTINUE EXPLORING ISLAND?" with the only real option being "Yes."

-

What does all this have to do with... well, with anything? What's the deal with the Rorschach stuff, the weird dreams, the drugs, the implication that you are Vaas, and in reverse? The only way that story could have made any sense, was if the ending revealed that you're some sort of coma patient on tainted drugs in the Matrix.

Unfortunately, you get the weird first person sex scene instead.

I had some fun with that game, but the story and context was just... man. They shouldn't have done that.

I pretty much agree with this. The story would have held up much better if Hoyt and his privateers had stayed more or less in the background or not even been there at all, and Vaas was wasted. The writing for pretty much all of the game was bad except for him and his delivery. I haven't met many video game characters that were so convincing and whose speeches were so terrifying, but that character delivers it well. But he's only in the game for like 4 scenes and then gets a lameass death about halfway through the game, leaving the rest of the game to be carried pretty much on mechanics alone because the shit story isn't going to cut it.

I enjoyed my time with it but the latter half takes a significant nosedive in terms of story and context, and by extension my interest in the game took a nosedive. You spend the first half of the game being introduced to these characters and given hints that this island has some bigger, possibly "magical" or whatever, secrets, but then you spend the latter half trying to take down Hoyt because he's an asshole and that's your eventual goal. And you only take story missions from one dude who is kind of entertaining at first but stops being so after your first conversation.

On a final note - I'm so glad I took the "save your friends" route. Otherwise I'd have gotten the awkward fucking and the stabbing afterwards. Why the fuck even include that ending?

#59 Edited by OspreyScout (4 posts) -

SPOILERS BELOW.

(First time posting here. Also, I'm from Argentina, so I apologize for any grammar mistake)

What I found odd about the end is that leaves you wanting more. I don't know if it's me wanting more or the story being cut abruptly.

Character development was odd. They were introduced too quickly and dispatched too quickly, leaving you for more. Sam's death could be seen a mile away for example.

You had to be extremely alert in order to get the character's "puzzle pieces".

Many like me will agree that Jason's friends were not developed/didn't cause you something to care for them. What made me kinda angry was the fact that FC3 actually tells you more about Jason's friends, but ONLY if you are paying attention to your surroundings -> I bet, that almost everyone on their first play, skipped/missed the "red pill/seeds" flashback sequences in the boat cave. They can be found after killing Vaas/Speaking with Citra about staying in the island. The game didn't point them out so anybody up to this point would have, naturally, due to the game encouraging you not to explore (Pointing out where is everything but not them) missed them.There are 3 of them (AFAIK, I haven't still ended my 2nd playthrough)

They reveal more about how the group got into the island and develop a little bit more some characters. You can find out for example that Grant did not approve of skydiving into the island, that Keith is a big shot, that Jason had some troubles prior to skydiving with Liza. Etc etc.

Now, all that I can say about the game, is that Ubisoft needs to make a huge expansion pack/DLC ala Red Hammer/Opposing Force, with a character from the Pirates/Mercenaries. They just can't dispose those superb voice actors.

EDIT: LOL, I heard Willis dialogue over the radio:

Im joining Task Force 141, I'm flying out tonight.

Mind you he also says "This Russia's operation blown wide open"

Obvious Call of Duty reference is obvious.

#60 Posted by Nadril (527 posts) -

I just finished the game. SPOILERS below.

I actually liked a lot about the story. I agree that the first half (with Vaas) is the stronger part of the game. It sets up everything very well.

The second half of the game is interesting. Now, I went through most of the second-half with the concept that Jason was an unreliable narrator after I read the PA Report article about it. Some stuff would make sense with that. Perhaps Jason is over-exaggerating everything, or perhaps the drugs have taken their toll. For sure there are a lot of dream sequences in the game too which can throw you off.

The ending, I chose the 'save your friends' ending because it seemed crazy to pick the other. I do think it was a bit off, you never really get much closure other than Citra getting stabbed.

Overall I do think there is something deeper there, but it's a bit too buried and maybe a little too difficult to figure out. It always is really difficult when you have an unreliable narrator after all. It can be tough to know what scenes are real and not real (other than the obvious dream sequences).

I think the biggest thing I enjoyed about the story though were the characters. Every one of them was unique and interesting.

#61 Posted by fapa (10 posts) -

I loved the story until it came to a grinding halt after killing Vaas. There was also a lot of buildup about Hoyat in the vain of he is the big boss even worse than Vaas and then you kill him in a simple QTE.

There are quite some jarring disconnects between the mission/level design and the story itself. So much so that I feel like the story writers and the level designers where not always on the same page. Why are you immediately sent to kill pirate commanders with a knife, why are they repairing a ship stranded in a cave on top of a mountain or why the hell would your bro you just saved do another flyover the enemy base with a half destroyed helicopter he just learned to fly?

I chose the save your friends ending because in the end I was thinking what would I do not what would Jason do. Also I never quite liked Citra because you can see the double cross coming from the first meeting with her. In the PA interview the writer said they wanted to undermine the damsel in distress trope with her but that didn't really work for me because she seemed to manipulate Jason for her personal gain.

I think I actually like the idea of the Citra kills you ending but I chose the other ending witch really put me off from playing more Far Cry 3 (I don't like going back playing all endings because it alters the story I experienced). After all the weird going mad/drugged haze scenes playing the end straight was kinda stupid and it really missed a twist. I would have loved a little scene after they return home to Malibu where Jason looks into a mirror and he is Vaas or something similar just to shatter reality.

#62 Posted by Ronald (1364 posts) -

It's weird because the story does have some not so good moments and pretty much dies after you kill Vaas, but almost all of the characters are great and you don't nearly get enough time with any of them. The doctor has a ton of backstory that doesn't get explored in the little bit you see him. Sam is interesting in how his character is built and the ways we see him. I wish I could have gotten more of Buck, Vass, and Hoyt. But that's part of what is good about the game, none of the characters overstay their welcome and you are left wanting more of each.

Going into the final part of the game knowing their wasn't some big twist in the story also helped temper my expectations, so I wasn't as left down as some people seem to be. I am glad that while there is some mysticism you can pretty much explain that away with drugs, and it's not like your powers are supernatural. You can just stab guys now, or have more health. Which is better than having mutants and you being infected with the mutant virus that is turning you into one that the first game had, while not going as overboard on the realism from 2.

#63 Edited by Hizang (8532 posts) -

I just finished it, I don't have any problems with the way the story payed out. I explained all of the weird shit away like Buck with the drugs that Jason has been taking. Not forgetting all of those injections he has given himself throughout the entire game, the ending was well deserved and I had no problems with that either. I chose to save my friends and get the heck off of the island.

Oh and killing guys to Rise of the Valkeryies was pretty amazing.

#64 Posted by Hamisch (1 posts) -

The game had a ton of atmosphere but simply fell apart about halfway. Some notable moments added up to me simply not giving a damn about the story anymore:

  • Dennis's descent into madness, specifically the necessary drunken confrontation at the temple?
  • The second half being nothing but a string a turret/instant fail sequences?
  • The lack of any feeling of accomplishment when all the towers/all the bases were taken. The reward is no more guys to kill. Great.

The game had atmosphere but they threw it away with Vaas and characters like Buck and the CIA agent in favor of a German double agent and a boring 2nd continent/rail sequence.

#65 Edited by Sackmanjones (4688 posts) -

Just finished the game tonight. I had an absolute blast but could not agree more that the story slowly dies after Vas is killed. And again, the characters are actually pretty damn good through the entire game ( I think Sam and Hoyt are great but Hoyt was mostly wasted). But like Jeff and Brad said, the thing that really bothers me is the "boss fights". I mean is Jason just so fucked on drugs that he sporadically jumps out of reality only seeing his one enemy he needs to kill? Who knows! The endings were ok, I killed my friends because I really didn't care for any of them and thought it would lead to something interesting (and it sure did!). The other ending seemed ok too, nothing terrible or amazing. Overall the endings were totally ok for me but too many weird holes are left open for me to really feel satisfied with the story completely. Sure we can blame it on the crazy island drugs but that seems like an easy out. With that said, I would recommend this game to just about anyone, it is just an absolutes joy to play.

#66 Posted by Atwa (617 posts) -

I finished the game just ten minutes ago, wow what a mess the game is. It starts off so strong, not only in terms of story, everything feels so massive, all these things litter your map with things to do. Though you quickly realize how shallow everything is, the hunting is brief, the radio towers are a necessity to even see the map, the camps quickly become repetitive. The story is the most baffling thing though. The main character is completely unlikable the supporting cast however makes up for it with Vaas being INCREDIBLE. Its just a shame he is used about 10-15 minutes over a 7-8 hour period. Which really shows how weak the rest of the game is when he is really the best thing about the story, the rest of the characters get tossed out as fast as they are introduced. When Vaas is killed the game comes to a halt, not only in terms of narrative but also in gameplay. The missions were outright boring on the second island. However what is done to the story is worse, I just completely lost interest as the old characters, Citra and Dennis got thrown away in favor of Sam and whatever that other assholes name that slips my mind was.  
 Then the ending. I didn't hesitate for even a moment to slit Liza's throat. However I shouldn't as this got me one of the most tasteless things I have ever witnessed in a game, first person boning and grunting. At least she ended it with stabbing him.  
  
The worst part of this is how strong of a character they had in Vaas, and to throw him away as a simple lackey.. and how they in the entire game hinted at something greater. All those Alice in Wonderland quotes? All the weird dream sequences that implied something hidden under the surface? all of it was for nothing?  
 
Still its pretty fun to play, i am just bummed out where it went. 

#67 Posted by RecSpec (3803 posts) -

Jason hit the ground while skydiving, his parachute failed to open. Coma. 

#68 Posted by Captain_Insano (1535 posts) -

I am really conflicted by the way Far Cry 3 developed.

I think that pretty much ALL of the characters are well conceptualised, presented and acted. I think that the villains of Vaas, Buck and Hoyt are all really interesting, have their own unique flair and bring something to the table.

Dennis and Citra and the Rakyat in general are also very interesting conceptually.

I think a big part of the problem for me is that while the characters are great in concept, they're not fleshed out or developed. We see them all to briefly in fairly brief cut scenes with little idea as to what is really behind them. Dennis saves you and then is immediate;y 'heres a gun, you're white so you'll naturally be the best warrior'.

Hoyt seems hugely interesting and is mentioned throughout but then only shown right at the end. Maybe integrate him more into the Vaas story.

The direction they went with Vaas (and how he dies) was fucked. Everything awesome about Vaas had literally already been shown in the pre release footage. Give me more of Vaas doing fucked up shit.

The game was a decent length already so I can understand not stretching it out too much longer. I would have liked longer cutscenes or at least more of them. Another way could have been to make side missions link more directly to the main characters, in a way that they're not necessary but they give you some more insight into what the characters are like (e.g Willis wants to gather some 'intel' on Vaas, so you have to spy on his camp, or Citra is looking for some mystical jungle shit (not unlike Buck) so you have to help her find something, Dennis wants you to eradicate specific people (like the Dead quests), so he is personally presenting them to you).

They created fantastic characters and did very little with them. I still really liked the game, but this held it back a lot.

#69 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7077 posts) -

The story really suffered when Vaas died. It's heavily implied that Hoyt only controls Vaas with drugs so...Hoyt should have died first. Then the second half of the game could be Vaas going completely fucking insane instead of introducing a whole new villain I'm supposed to hate to replace the incredible one I just killed. I think killing Hoyt first would have had far more interesting consequences. It's a real bummer the way the second half of the story goes.

#70 Posted by Dacnomaniac (442 posts) -

I like how when Citra dies in one of the endings, and you continue to explore at the end. None of the Rakyat give a shit, or blame you for her death. Like, the fuck?

#71 Posted by benspyda (2033 posts) -

@Dacnomaniac said:

I like how when Citra dies in one of the endings, and you continue to explore at the end. None of the Rakyat give a shit, or blame you for her death. Like, the fuck?

Well YOU die in the other one but can keep exploring and the Rakyat don't give a fuck there is a zombie roaming the world.

#72 Posted by Vaas (3 posts) -

Okay everyone, sorry to text wall but here we go:

The entirety of the plot is designed upon a riddle which not only needs explaining as a riddle in the first place but is no way hinted at during the game nor brought up through subversion of ideas or the narrative. I didnt see the weirder bits of Far Cry 3 and go oh this is challenging the genre stereotype I simply went WTF? As far as I saw this was the plot. Dislikeable American morons show up on make believe Island which is a zoo for dangerous animals that are cool to have in a game so they dont need explaining despite worldwide origins, and end up captured by probably the best villain in a game to date. Brother frees himself and utilises army training to get shot in the neck. Jason runs away. Jason kills someone and starts to cry about it. He then murders everyone in sight just because after a marine sergeant/victim of racism mechanic from somewhere other than his Kiwi accent suggests tattooed his arm for no reason and told him he could kill him if he wanted. Jason gets a machine gun for climbing a tower and cant craft large holsters from multiple pigs because that would be too simple. He meets a crazy tribal lady who wants to kill him until he mentions friends at which point she cares about him supposedly and tries to help. Jason kills a lot of people with Vaas popping in and out of cutscenes but having no actual screen presence making him feel like a shadow and not a real person trying to stop Jason finding a knife he saw in hallucinations because he was forced to drink something heavily implied to be poisonous because apparently he cant save his friends without it. he also cant save his friends without the pointless presense of a drugged up geriatric who appears twice in the plot for no discernable reason other than to say 'go there', once as his final words.

The knifes location is only known to a rapist with his name and a male deer tattooed on his chest who avoiding the obvious fact he would have to die just so you could give the knife to a crazy lady because the plot demanded it happened to have your friend. To find an australian rapist who knows where the knife is anyway, gives history lectures and has a friend who will gut your friend if you dont go on wild goose chases so he can rape your friend more times only when he finally lets you in hes alone you need to talk to a CIA agent in a pimp suit who apparently knows the discrimination victim mechanic. CIA man threatens to kill you then lets you in straight away because of a sad story and tells you to set fire to weed to irritate someone with no relevance to you to achieve a goal you couldnt care less about. One of his recordings has the only interaction between Vaas and Hoyt where Vaas is being a pussy. CIA man resurfaces to randomly run to Russia offering Jason a lift and telling him he can contact Sam at a bar only ten minutes ago he had no idea what had happened to his agent on the South Island after Jason has killed the Australian on a weird dance floor projection and killed Vaas in a dream sequence except he didnt because the eyes moved and Jason had a knife in his chest except he did because everyone from then onwards says so after you randomly arrive back at the temple where you claimed you were the leader and saviour of the Rakyat because you found a knife which Vaas had when he stabbed you. Anyway, plane ride, wingsuit, meeting with the agent who serves only to yell Blitzkrieg when there are no goddamn enemies to shoot at and diffuse bombs or be otherwise distracted when there are. He makes constant poker references to everything you do, disappears at random and comes up with steadily worsening plans such as nick a recruit uniform from the central dock except it isnt a recruit uniform because as soon as you obtain it and stand with everyone else after randomly being told you can become a traitor by a guy with a big mouth and a beard you look like a seasoned privateer especially considering at the compound recruits have clown facepaint and recruit stencilled on their armour. Not that this stops them referring to you as new fish and mentioning Vaas who died before they even arrived. Of course any privateer could have been killed for a uniform but a stealth mission had gone amiss thus far. You take out traitors who are hilariously inept to get noticed by Hoyt who explodes a ship full of people he was ransoming for no apparent reason to Ride of the Valkyries and decide not just to cut his throat there and then but hold on because you psychically knew despite testimony to the contrary he had Riley who just happens to be a pilot and very useful to the plot. Sam is killed, there is another button mash boss battle on a weird dance floor and you get shot at by enemies who have set up positions all along your escape route as if they knew your plan even though you didnt until ten seconds ago.

Riley masters flying a helicopter in ten seconds and the Rakyat take your friends who had the boat fixed days ago but decided not to leave so that you can execute them to earn tits and a stab in the back or you can save them for crazy tribal lady to step in front of you and get stabbed by the plot irrelvant mechanic because she loves you which is apparently reasonable grounds for abduction because she has dual personalities. Every choice you have made up to that point is discarded by a choice of button press after yet another drugged up load of nonsense where the tribals talk in idiosyncracy and there are lots of flames. You are then given a short cut scene to quickly explain why you can keep playing and dropped back into the island with Hoyt dead even though you knew nothing about him except for he ran the privateers and was a collosal tit. He was a block of wood with features for all he mattered. And apparently getting stabbed means you lose the privateer outit. Oh and with all the outposts down there are no enemies and only a few shallow side quests to earn money i have nothing to spend on because i dont have any targets to shoot at but restarting means losing all my hard earned skills.

Ugh. What crap. It even squashed my flicker of hope as I hoped having not seen his body that Vaas wasnt dead and he was the one capturing your friends at the end but nope more plot illogic. The idea, i have discovered upon reading many an article, was to challenge everything people expect of FPS and the industry only it didnt work. I look for hidden meanings in games and the only bit i got was Citra and only at the end because she threatened to delete my save file. I invested much time in considering each character only to be told they were steretypical archetypes with no relevance. Spec Ops the Line was fresh air, it brought a new twist to FPS and I thought far cry 3 was set to do the same and it tried but simply churned nonsense. When the name of the island is a riddle unto itself known only by those who look up common words in the dictionary you've probably taken the concept a bit far. Loved the game but the plot is unacceptable, messages should be subtle and clever not rammed into skins and paraded on the screen with their tits out.

#73 Posted by Giantstalker (1634 posts) -

@Vaas: Your username sells me on the argument before I even finished, because I read it like Vaas would. And man, what a fucking incredible read it was.

#74 Edited by Vaas (3 posts) -

@Giantstalker: Do you know the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing expecting s**t to change. ...Everywhere i looked, everywhere i looked industry pri*ks doing the same fuc*ing thing again and again. Just end the story properly ;P

#75 Edited by spartanlolz92 (511 posts) -

@Tennmuerti said:

@Ares42:

Yeah, I would have stayed with Citra as the game was going up to that point without looking back. But not at the expense of innocent lives, past friends at that, no matter if they're shallow or not. That was the line.

(also kind of showed right there and then how fucking bonkers Citra was)

As far as the choice to go away, i disagree that it is necessarily empty. It's left pretty open ended as to how you will continue your life. It might not necessarily remain empty for Jason after such a catalystic changing experience. He might fall into a depression rut like some of the badly scarred war vets. Or he might seize his new found confidence, power and ability and apply it somewhere, like go into army like his brother and with those skills of his he would go far. Who knows.

agree with this though i would like to add on

jason girlfriend (forgot her name) states that hes finally grown up and after all the waiting hes finally taking charge.... its clearly alluded to that your life will be somewhat more fufilling. Also the bad things about your friends were changed on the island as well. for example keith was a jerk and had a problem with porn. how much do you want to bet hes gonna be really diffrent now especially after dealing with buck. I found the story to be quite well done but they couldve explained stuff a little better. but then again it was kinda nice not to have my handheld in a plot for a video game for once.

but yeah better boss fights and vaas living till the end fight would have made the game so much better. also hoyt couldve been better than vaas.....but they wasted the oppurtunity.

game is still amazing though on all points

#76 Edited by downtime58 (224 posts) -

In the Penny Arcade article, Jeffery Yohalem, the author of the game argues that the ending serves as some kind of exclamation point for what is supposed to be a critique on the power-fantasy that Jason is having on the island. The reason I think the critique fails to come across properly is because it works at cross-purposes with the functions of the game play, which explicitly empowers you at every step to fulfill that power fantasy. From getting better weapons/gear to unlocking new powers, the game is constantly enabling you to be more powerful as it progresses - and by the end of it (at least for me) - I had no trouble mowing down scores of guys. So, when the author says that all of this was "just in Jason's head" doesn't really jive because my playing experience says otherwise.

This sort of touches on what some of the other comments over at PA brought up, which is the whole problem with delivering an unreliable narrative explicitly through cut scenes. I can see what Yohalem was going for in those cut scenes, where Jason's perspective seems off - the trouble is - these moments are only confined to brief moments where there's no player agency because we aren't controlling any of it, just passively watching it happen.

In other words, I spend 10 hours playing the game, taking out outposts, hunting animals and exploring the island where my perspective as the player inhabiting Jason Brody seems perfectly fine. The game play essentially asserts that my Jason Brody is doing okay. It's only when the narrative swoops in, do we get the sense that everything is not okay - but again, five minutes later, I'm back to playing the game as though nothing happened.

It's hard for the concept of the unreliable narrator to resonate, when the rest of the game essentially demonstrates the opposite. If the game makers wanted to clearly present the idea that Jason's perspective could not be trusted, it needed to convey that information not only during the segmented-off narrative moments, but also during the rest of the game play, particularly when the player is in control of the character. I could see where they wanted to go with the story, but I think the failings above are the reason they didn't get there.

#77 Posted by Whitestripes09 (401 posts) -

Throughout this whole game I had the feeling that there was so much more behind the scenes and yet at the end, nothing. I'm not sure whether to think that the story is bad or good because of this... but it did leave me disappointed that they never really explained all the craziness that happened around Jason other than for the sake to be crazy.

#78 Posted by MildMolasses (3219 posts) -

I don't think they should have included the "save friends" option. With the way the writer was talking in that PA article about trying to flip tropes on their head, it only makes sense that your power fantasy was Citra just manipulating you the entire time into thinking that these "savages" needed your "white" help. The saving friends option just fulfills that white power fantasy.

Although as I write this a thought just occurred to me: part of the reason that I hated the main group characters so much was because they never seemed to acknowledge how fucked up the situation they are in is. And I'm guessing because they aren't. It really is in Jason's head. I can only assume the final shot of game that plays through the credits, is a knife sticking out of Jason's torso

#79 Posted by C0V3RT (1377 posts) -

I may be in the minority but just attributed some of the plot hole shortcomings to the game being a video game. I never felt like there was anything beneath the surface of the story once you got to the southern island, and that everything felt just rushed. The voice acting and dialogue throughout the entire game felt over the top, very exaggerated, and super tongue in cheek to the extent I got the impression the game was self aware.

#80 Posted by planetfunksquad (416 posts) -

@downtime58 said:

In the Penny Arcade article, Jeffery Yohalem, the author of the game argues that the ending serves as some kind of exclamation point for what is supposed to be a critique on the power-fantasy that Jason is having on the island. The reason I think the critique fails to come across properly is because it works at cross-purposes with the functions of the game play, which explicitly empowers you at every step to fulfill that power fantasy. From getting better weapons/gear to unlocking new powers, the game is constantly enabling you to be more powerful as it progresses - and by the end of it (at least for me) - I had no trouble mowing down scores of guys. So, when the author says that all of this was "just in Jason's head" doesn't really jive because my playing experience says otherwise.

This sort of touches on what some of the other comments over at PA brought up, which is the whole problem with delivering an unreliable narrative explicitly through cut scenes. I can see what Yohalem was going for in those cut scenes, where Jason's perspective seems off - the trouble is - these moments are only confined to brief moments where there's no player agency because we aren't controlling any of it, just passively watching it happen.

In other words, I spend 10 hours playing the game, taking out outposts, hunting animals and exploring the island where my perspective as the player inhabiting Jason Brody seems perfectly fine. The game play essentially asserts that my Jason Brody is doing okay. It's only when the narrative swoops in, do we get the sense that everything is not okay - but again, five minutes later, I'm back to playing the game as though nothing happened.

It's hard for the concept of the unreliable narrator to resonate, when the rest of the game essentially demonstrates the opposite. If the game makers wanted to clearly present the idea that Jason's perspective could not be trusted, it needed to convey that information not only during the segmented-off narrative moments, but also during the rest of the game play, particularly when the player is in control of the character. I could see where they wanted to go with the story, but I think the failings above are the reason they didn't get there.

After reading that article I'm a little confused about what he actually intended the story to be. He says it's flipping the "Mighty Whitey" trope on it's head by making you think you're saving the poor natives, and that it's represented most by Citra, his "damsel in distress" character. He seems to imply that he thinks most people would take the "bad ending" and side with Citra. From most things that I've read not a lot of people took that option, with a lot of people saying that they just didn't trust her or see her as being in distress at all. Maybe thats bad writing on his part? Maybe nobody "gets" the story because it wasn't set up correctly. Also I find this interpretation to be at odds with the other ending. If you chose not to side with Citra, not to help the damsel in distress, she gets knifed in the chest by Dennis. It kind of reinforces the notion that she did need you after all. With out you around the tribes folk kill each other.

I think it's a great game with a story that didn't hit home the way it could have, but what irks me is his insistence that we're to blame for that. If a large majority of people don't get your satire then it's bad satire. He say's he wants to write stories that respect his audiences intelligence and then essentially calls them dumb when they don't "get" it.

#81 Posted by Deranged (1837 posts) -

Honestly, at one point, I assumed that all of this was just occurring in Jason's head, almost similar to what Spec Ops: The Line had done. I was hoping for something a little more interesting and the story wasn't bad perse, but it was horribly predictable.

Oh and screw Citra, saved my friends instead.

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