# Trying Fez again. I think I know what I dont know. Help? SPOILERS

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#1 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

I decided to pick up the game again and see what over 6 months of not caring about Fez did to my puzzle solving ability and I found 3 anti cubes. I posted that pic a long time ago asking if I was on the right track to figuring out the numbers and didn't really get an answer of yes or no. I think it was in the telescope place that I found another order for the numbers that listed 5 different "numbers" vertically. I've taken a lot of pictures around the world that I feel are relevant to solving a few things to get some progress. Here they are.

I feel a big part of what I'm missing is the numbers corresponding to the number of turns and direction on those long tetris like blocks. Some of those images point to that link. I'm assuming that's what it means in any case. I haven't found a way to figure out the values of the numbers, but I'm hoping I've found all the relevant pieces I need to figure that out.

Do I have the pieces I need or am I still missing some crucial info?

#2 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: You seem close. I'd say you almost have enough.

Though, I don't see a picture of the key pillar which gives you an explanation of what the Tetris pieces mean. You have been to the room where the pillar responds to you, right? As that's essential.

#3 Edited by s10129107 (1209 posts) -
Those aren't long tetris blocks, they are equals signs. I don't think that is ruining it. I think you can figure out the numbers. Go to the school. Its more simple than it seems.
The Tetris blocks have nothing to do with the numbers.

Check out the 6th picture you posted. Think of the room it corresponds to. Thats when I had my epiphany over how the tetris pieces work. Theres another jump you have to figure out for some of the tetris codes. The fifth picture might help you figure that system out.

#4 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: You seem close. I'd say you almost have enough.

Though, I don't see a picture of the key pillar which gives you an explanation of what the Tetris pieces mean. You have been to the room where the pillar responds to you, right? As that's essential.

In the 6th picture there is a little gomez standing next to a block with lots of little squares. Is that the key pillar? I think I remember running into that thing. I didn't start taking pictures until I actively tried to find evidence of the numbers and the alphabet so I probably went in that room once and didn't go back again. Is it possible that the room containing that is gold? Could it be undiscovered? I actually have one bit missing to complete all the gold cubes and I have like 14 anti cubes. I have a few blank/unexplored rooms because they are either sealed by the tetris marks, are underwater (I believe you can lower the water), or have some other mechanism to access them.

I should probably take a picture of my world map.

#5 Posted by s10129107 (1209 posts) -

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: You seem close. I'd say you almost have enough.

Though, I don't see a picture of the key pillar which gives you an explanation of what the Tetris pieces mean. You have been to the room where the pillar responds to you, right? As that's essential.

In the 6th picture there is a little gomez standing next to a block with lots of little squares. Is that the key pillar? I think I remember running into that thing. I didn't start taking pictures until I actively tried to find evidence of the numbers and the alphabet so I probably went in that room once and didn't go back again. Is it possible that the room containing that is gold? Could it be undiscovered? I actually have one bit missing to complete all the gold cubes and I have like 14 anti cubes. I have a few blank/unexplored rooms because they are either sealed by the tetris marks, are underwater (I believe you can lower the water), or have some other mechanism to access them.

I should probably take a picture of my world map.

There is no way that room is gold if you haven't figured the tetris pieces out. My recommendation is to forget what you've heard of the game so far because you are crossing the different systems. That room with the square pieces is up in the Z direction and kinda all the way left in the Y direction if that makes sense.

#6 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: That room depicted in picture 6 is part of the key, yes. The room may be gold(I don't remember), but it's mainly for using elsewhere. The key is for solving other things. You should find that room again. It will help you finally understand the Tetromino and help you better understand everything else.

#7 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@s10129107: Wait, was there a Tetromino puzzle in the key pillar room? It has been a while; so, I don't quite remember. I thought the room was just the key pillar and no puzzle. I do suppose it could be a FPS puzzle; I just don't remember.

#8 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@s10129107 said:

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: You seem close. I'd say you almost have enough.

Though, I don't see a picture of the key pillar which gives you an explanation of what the Tetris pieces mean. You have been to the room where the pillar responds to you, right? As that's essential.

In the 6th picture there is a little gomez standing next to a block with lots of little squares. Is that the key pillar? I think I remember running into that thing. I didn't start taking pictures until I actively tried to find evidence of the numbers and the alphabet so I probably went in that room once and didn't go back again. Is it possible that the room containing that is gold? Could it be undiscovered? I actually have one bit missing to complete all the gold cubes and I have like 14 anti cubes. I have a few blank/unexplored rooms because they are either sealed by the tetris marks, are underwater (I believe you can lower the water), or have some other mechanism to access them.

I should probably take a picture of my world map.

There is no way that room is gold if you haven't figured the tetris pieces out. My recommendation is to forget what you've heard of the game so far because you are crossing the different systems. That room with the square pieces is up in the Z direction and kinda all the way left in the Y direction if that makes sense.

I just filmed a quick video of my map showing all the places that aren't gold and I saw the room with the key pillar. I'll head over there right now.

#9 Posted by s10129107 (1209 posts) -

@TruthTellah: There is a plain old vertical pillar with tetris pieces on it in that room. He seems two jumps away from figuring it out.

#10 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@s10129107 said:

@TruthTellah: There is a plain old vertical pillar with tetris pieces on it in that room. He seems two jumps away from figuring it out.

Ah, okay. I didn't remember if it had a tetromino puzzle in the room to prove the usefulness of the key pillar.

As you said, it looks like he's really close! Once he gets this part of it, he's well on his way to understanding the numbers. :)

(remember that "infinite" tetromino room? That was awesome. This discussion is reminding me of some of those cool later puzzles)

#11 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@s10129107 said:

@TruthTellah: There is a plain old vertical pillar with tetris pieces on it in that room. He seems two jumps away from figuring it out.

Ah, okay. I didn't remember if it had a tetromino puzzle in the room to prove the usefulness of the key pillar.

As you said, it looks like he's really close! Once he gets this part of it, he's well on his way to understanding the numbers. :)

(remember that "infinite" tetromino room? That was awesome. This discussion is reminding me of some of those cool later puzzles)

I'm in there and I do remember this room and leaving when I didn't know what to do. Okay. Here we go. I think I see it now. Two vertical pieces at a time make a piece. No one say anything.

#12 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

Ah shit. Now I feel bad. Had I entered this room as I was going through all the room to see what they were about I would have got it. Thanks for all the help. I feel stupid for not catching it the first time I was in here, though I guess I couldn't have known unless I knew the significance of that tetris tower there and everwhere else. Man, I have a lot of new stuff to open. So many more doors now.

I did yell once it worked.

#13 Posted by s10129107 (1209 posts) -

AWESOME!

#14 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@s10129107 said:

@TruthTellah: There is a plain old vertical pillar with tetris pieces on it in that room. He seems two jumps away from figuring it out.

Now that that's done I have a question about that blinking red light with the telescope. I unfortunately remember the bombcast talking about morse code. Is that blinking red light morse code? I want to save myself the time of trying to learn it only to find that it was a dead end.

#15 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin said:

@s10129107 said:

@TruthTellah: There is a plain old vertical pillar with tetris pieces on it in that room. He seems two jumps away from figuring it out.

Now that that's done I have a question about that blinking red light with the telescope. I unfortunately remember the bombcast talking about morse code. Is that blinking red light morse code? I want to save myself the time of trying to learn it only to find that it was a dead end.

EDIT: Whoops. I had forgotten on this one. The red lights are for a different puzzle. Just look at the constellations and go through them all in order to solve it. The red lights are separate.

#16 Posted by s10129107 (1209 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin said:

@s10129107 said:

@TruthTellah: There is a plain old vertical pillar with tetris pieces on it in that room. He seems two jumps away from figuring it out.

Now that that's done I have a question about that blinking red light with the telescope. I unfortunately remember the bombcast talking about morse code. Is that blinking red light morse code? I want to save myself the time of trying to learn it only to find that it was a dead end.

Since you want to save time, yes, if memory serves me correctly, the blinking code indicates the order in which you input the tetromino constellations.

I think you're wrong, man. The red light and the Tetris blocks are two different puzzles.

#17 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@s10129107: Yeah, you're right. I forgot about that. I corrected my post on it. :)

#18 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@s10129107 said:

@TruthTellah: There is a plain old vertical pillar with tetris pieces on it in that room. He seems two jumps away from figuring it out.

Ah, okay. I didn't remember if it had a tetromino puzzle in the room to prove the usefulness of the key pillar.

As you said, it looks like he's really close! Once he gets this part of it, he's well on his way to understanding the numbers. :)

(remember that "infinite" tetromino room? That was awesome. This discussion is reminding me of some of those cool later puzzles)

I went around the world picking up the anti cubes I was able to get with the key, but now I feel that the numbers are needed for the rest of them. I feel like I've been hitting the numbers for around 2 hours and trying different things on the Bell, but nothing has clicked. I used picture 6 as a way to justify that the numbers next the tetris stuff were 1,2 and 3 going from right to left since those were the steps used to break up the key into individual parts and then turn it on its side like the alphabet.

I believe I am having a lot of trouble with the orientation of the numbers because I originally assumed that the number that looks like a right angle with a dot in the top right corner was in the correct orientation on picture 6. This would confirm the orientation for the rest of the numbers appearing next to it. However, you have picture number 4 with various orientations for the right angle with a dot in the corner. The number artifact also has a different orientation for the right angle with the corner dot. The same goes for the boiler room in the town that has each tetris piece paired with a number (I assume that determines the numerical order for the tetris pieces).

As I try to come to terms with the orientation for the numbers and the different sources showing a vertical and horizontal arrangement I have picture 4 that seems to indicate some kind of addition, multiplication, and/or squaring of numbers started with the first number on the left and then moving to the numbers on the right. I can't even assign values to those numbers with any conviction because I'm not sure if the particular orientation shown in picture 4 is the cardinal orientation or if it has to be turned counter clockwise, which would change the values of those "U" shaped numbers that seem to point in all 4 directions as indicated by the 4th images.

Is this all crazy talk or am I going in the right direction? Do I need a new approach?

#19 Posted by Stepside (510 posts) -

Any word on this coming out for PC or PS3 anytime soon? My non-Xbox-having ass is dying to play it.

#20 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@Stepside: Phil Fish indicated this week that he would be working on porting it in 2013. I would say PC is likely.

#21 Posted by Stepside (510 posts) -

@TruthTellah: Word! Thanks for the good news!

#22 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: You're sort of on the way, but I need to ask. Have you looked at the Counting Cube artifact from the Library? It's... pretty helpful.

#23 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: You're sort of on the way, but I need to ask. Have you looked at the Counting Cube artifact from the Library? The artifacts you found during the game are pretty helpful(and eventually essential).

You mean the number dice artifact?

#24 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: Yes, the number dice artifact. Have you really looked at it well?

#25 Edited by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Yes, the number dice artifact. Have you really looked at it well?

The numbers correspond to picture 4 if the dice was flattened out like a paper craft cube. At one point I thought it listed the numbers there as 1-6. It's also the same flattened out shape of the world (didn't upload that pic, i think it was in the observatory area) and I thought of using the two snowy poles to orient opposite sides as a way to line them up with a real world dice.

#26 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Yes, the number dice artifact. Have you really looked at it well?

The numbers correspond to picture 4 if the dice was flattened out like a paper craft cube. At one point I thought it listed the numbers there as 1-6. It's also the same flattened out shape of the world (didn't upload that pic, i think it was in the observatory area) and I thought of using the two snowy poles to orient opposite sides as a way to line them up with a real world dice.

Yeah, the pole idea is craziness, but I like the thought there. heh. Yeah, the counting cube artifact is indeed related to their 1-6, and the picture 4 is a flattened out version of it.

Now, you may want to look at picture 5. Which is, well, half of what you're looking for. Think about the themes of the game and how they might relate to those images. How these characters might think about the world and thus form a numeric system.

#27 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -
@TruthTellah

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Yes, the number dice artifact. Have you really looked at it well?

The numbers correspond to picture 4 if the dice was flattened out like a paper craft cube. At one point I thought it listed the numbers there as 1-6. It's also the same flattened out shape of the world (didn't upload that pic, i think it was in the observatory area) and I thought of using the two snowy poles to orient opposite sides as a way to line them up with a real world dice.

Yeah, the pole idea is craziness, but I like the thought there. heh. Yeah, the counting cube artifact is indeed related to their 1-6, and the picture 4 is a flattened out version of it.

Now, you may want to look at picture 5. Which is, well, half of what you're looking for. Think about the themes of the game and how they might relate to those images. How these characters might think about the world and thus form a numeric system.

Well, I've seen enough videos about string theory and alternate dimensions to see where you're going. A point, a line, a square, a cube, and the titular colorful side kick. I'll keep that in mind when I play again.
#28 Posted by s10129107 (1209 posts) -
#29 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Yes, the number dice artifact. Have you really looked at it well?

The numbers correspond to picture 4 if the dice was flattened out like a paper craft cube. At one point I thought it listed the numbers there as 1-6. It's also the same flattened out shape of the world (didn't upload that pic, i think it was in the observatory area) and I thought of using the two snowy poles to orient opposite sides as a way to line them up with a real world dice.

Yeah, the pole idea is craziness, but I like the thought there. heh. Yeah, the counting cube artifact is indeed related to their 1-6, and the picture 4 is a flattened out version of it.

Now, you may want to look at picture 5. Which is, well, half of what you're looking for. Think about the themes of the game and how they might relate to those images. How these characters might think about the world and thus form a numeric system.

Well, I've seen enough videos about string theory and alternate dimensions to see where you're going. A point, a line, a square, a cube, and the titular colorful side kick. I'll keep that in mind when I play again.

Yeah, you're on the right track. Almost there. Like, millimeters away.

Click s101's Spoiler Tag if you want to finally have the answer.

#30 Edited by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Yes, the number dice artifact. Have you really looked at it well?

The numbers correspond to picture 4 if the dice was flattened out like a paper craft cube. At one point I thought it listed the numbers there as 1-6. It's also the same flattened out shape of the world (didn't upload that pic, i think it was in the observatory area) and I thought of using the two snowy poles to orient opposite sides as a way to line them up with a real world dice.

Yeah, the pole idea is craziness, but I like the thought there. heh. Yeah, the counting cube artifact is indeed related to their 1-6, and the picture 4 is a flattened out version of it.

Now, you may want to look at picture 5. Which is, well, half of what you're looking for. Think about the themes of the game and how they might relate to those images. How these characters might think about the world and thus form a numeric system.

Well, I've seen enough videos about string theory and alternate dimensions to see where you're going. A point, a line, a square, a cube, and the titular colorful side kick. I'll keep that in mind when I play again.

Yeah, you're on the right track. Almost there. Like, millimeters away.

Click s101's Spoiler Tag if you want to finally have the answer.

I won't look at the spoiler until I solve the bell. I've had some time to think about this (should have gone to bed) and this is how I see picture 5. I can know things as a 3d creature and I can go on what I would perceive as a 2d creature.

The first figure on picture 5 is a dot. A dot has 0 dimensions and 1 point. A 2d and 3d creature can see this.

The second figure is a line. A line is comprised of 2 connected dots and has 1 dimension X. Both creatures can see it.

The third figure is a square. The square is 4 dots connected with a line and has 2 dimensions of X and Y. The two creatures see it fine.

The fourth figure would be a 2d rendering of a cube. A cube is 8 connected dots with 3 dimensions of XYZ and as 3d creatures we know this to be true. The tricky thing is that a 2 dimensional creature would only be able to see 7 points because they lack the depth of a Z axis to know that 8th point exists.

I doubt a 2d creature would devise a counting system based on dimensions. A tesseract might be depicted as 4 little cubes (visually 4 squares) to represent 4 dimensions and 16 points, but a 2d creature couldn't even imagine 3 dimensions so I don't see how it could conceive of a 4th.

If I was to assign values to each figure I would go by points only visible to a 2d creature. On picture 5 going from left to right I would assign them 1, 2, 4, and 7. I'm not sure how the game's logic decides on the pictorial representation for the numbers, but I would imagine rotating objects in 2d space (a line rotated could be seen as a single point and a square could appear to be a line when rotated 90 degrees across the Z axis) could create things such as two solid lines. A right angle with a little square might represent a perspective of a cube. All in all, I'm probably thinking too much on this and I haven't figured how to fit this idea into the image of the flattened 6 sided number artifact. If the bottom row has the numbers of increasing value listed from left to right (not with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 point values) then this idea is pretty much out the window.

In any case I'm just thinking out loud and getting my thoughts down. I do have a tendency to over complicate things.

EDIT: Oh crap. A cube as a flat shape would only have 6 points visible! That changes everything!

#31 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: heh. Yeah, you're overcomplicating it(like most of us did). Though, your first thoughts are right on track, and actually, that's almost exactly what is under s101's Spoiler Tag. Now it's not really a spoiler. You're close. But you seem to talk yourself out of the answer.

Give a little more thought on the game itself. A 2D boy receives a 3D fez which allows him to reveal that the world is actually in three dimensions. And after beating the game, you are given the ability to look at the world in three dimensions. Gomez can see in three dimensions, and there are images of each previous generation with a leader wearing a fez, presumably giving them the ability to see in three dimensions, too. A leader that perhaps established the order of their society. On a wall, you see a squid handing something to a 2D creature, and then the numbers begin. Don't overthink it. It's right there. You're really close.

#32 Edited by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah

@golguin: heh. Yeah, you're overcomplicating it(like most of us did). Though, your first thoughts are right on track, and actually, that's almost exactly what is under s101's Spoiler Tag. Now it's not really a spoiler. You're close. But you seem to talk yourself out of the answer.

Give a little more thought on the game itself. A 2D boy receives a 3D fez which allows him to reveal that the world is actually in three dimensions. And after beating the game, you are given the ability to look at the world in three dimensions. Gomez can see in three dimensions, and there are images of each previous generation with a leader wearing a fez, presumably giving them the ability to see in three dimensions, too. A leader that perhaps established the order of their society. On a wall, you see a squid handing something to a 2D creature, and then the numbers begin. Don't overthink it. It's right there. You're really close.

I've done some more world searching and arrived at the same repeating pattern of 5 numbers shown vertically 3 times with different orientations. The curious thing is that the two bars seem separate from the numbers since they don't have an outline and yet that same room shows the two parralel bars with the flattened dice and a bunch of numbers oriented differently. I almost want to believe the orientation doesn't matter, but the 0-3 dimensions diagram shows a distinction between a line and a square. The third dimension picture has to represent the same number no matter which way it's turned. The problem is the bell only having four sides and possible order to enter the correct numbers. I have way too many ways to devise counting systems based on assigning different values of dimensions, points, and multiplying dimensions by points.

EDIT: I guess the two parallel lines are throwing me for a loop. They can be an equals sign to show the relationship between the 3 top numbers and the box with four little squares. It repeats 3 times as a way to say "the orientation doesn't matter as they still equals the box with the little four squares. The fact that the game shows this relationship in the observatory place with the two lines having no outline has to mean its an equals sign.

The same room shows those two parallel lines with the outlines like the rest of the numbers and in a vertical and horizontal orientation, which says to me they are actually numbers. If not why show them with an outline? The dice does the same thing and outlines them. Those lines of numbers next to hit are probably part of a bigger puzzle.

#33 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: Okay, you were like right there. I'm pretty sure you already have some of the numbers. You're just overthinking it and undoing what you've already figured out.

I think it's reasonable for you to conclude that those two horizontal lines without outlines resemble equal signs. Though, don't be fooled into thinking that "rotated" symbols mean the same thing; that "rotation" might actually be a clue as to how numbers are represented. And thinking about the game's story, what might number might that alien squid be giving them? And that number symbol is shown again to the left of the squid image. Number symbol "equals" number symbol. Then it shows that a different symbol "equals" that number symbol...

as though there could be two symbols for some numbers...

And I'd recommend not focusing on the bell puzzle. Try to find the numbers and make those three equations on the chalkboard work first. Start small. Get 1,2,3,4, and then work from there. You've got this. You -at least- have 0, 1, 2, 3.

#34 Edited by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Okay, you were like right there. I'm pretty sure you already have some of the numbers. You're just overthinking it and undoing what you've already figured out.

I think it's reasonable for you to conclude that those two horizontal lines without outlines resemble equal signs. Though, don't be fooled into thinking that "rotated" symbols mean the same thing; that "rotation" might actually be a clue as to how numbers are represented. And thinking about the game's story, what might number might that alien squid be giving them? And that number symbol is shown again to the left of the squid image. Number symbol "equals" number symbol. Then it shows that a different symbol "equals" that number symbol...

as though there could be two symbols for some numbers...

And I'd recommend not focusing on the bell puzzle. Try to find the numbers and make those three equations on the chalkboard work first. Start small. Get 1,2,3,4, and then work from there. You've got this. You -at least- have 0, 1, 2, 3.

Believe me when I tell you that I saw the chalk drawing with the alien as A=A and A=B, but I discounted that line of thinking immediately because it seemed too complex for having different symbols mean the same thing. I had accepted the idea that the three number equations were a way to show that a clockwise or counter clockwise rotation would keep all the numbers ordered in their relative set, but the column on the right breaks that pattern.

The "C" pointed down equals the cube shape with the little box in the top right corner, but then the order laid out by the dice has the "cube" as the 4th number and the "dimensions diagram" has it listed 4th there as well, but the "solid block number" listed 1st in that diagram is placed 6th in the dice order.

I feel that whenever I assign a value or order to all the symbols and it makes sense to me I test it on the bell in several different orders (hitting different sides 1st, second, last, etc.) and nothing happens.

I think I'm going to scan the paper where I've written out several number ideas. I did variations of the A+B+C=D in my head and applied them to the bell, but that didn't go far.

Is the bell the only way to confirm the number system?

EDIT: Aside from rotation being an indicator of correct positioning (numbers are shown vertically and horizontally) the thought did cross my mind that the dimension diagram indicated some kind of rotation value increase with the symbol representing the line and the symbol representing the square. I also had forgetting that the picture showing the key pillar and the instructions on how to deconstruct the tetris line had the steps ordered 1,2,3 and those values (and their direction) correspond perfectly with the dimension diagram. It was my earliest attempt at making the the four little square symbols equal 6, but that didn't work.

#35 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: The bell is not the only way to confirm the number system. When you have the right numbers, (1-4 first, then get 5-10) the math works out properly and just makes sense. It logically confirms itself.

Look at the chalkboard drawing which explains the tetromino puzzles. It first shows the tetromino all together, it second shows them separated out, and third shows them laid out horizontally, helping you understand how to input the proper commands. Now, these are labeled, and once you understand the tetromino puzzles, it should give you part of the answer here.

Work off what makes sense. Try to get down that first 4 numbers, keeping in mind the new information that some numbers may be represented by another symbol. The Boiler Room, with its 8 marked inputs, is also a decent way to test it out; though testing shouldn't be necessary. As you said, a dot has no dimensions, a line has one dimension, a square has two dimensions, and a cube has three dimensions. The simple answer here is probably the correct one, as Fez can be tricky, but it makes sense.

#36 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@s10129107 said:

@TruthTellah: There is a plain old vertical pillar with tetris pieces on it in that room. He seems two jumps away from figuring it out.

Ah, okay. I didn't remember if it had a tetromino puzzle in the room to prove the usefulness of the key pillar.

As you said, it looks like he's really close! Once he gets this part of it, he's well on his way to understanding the numbers. :)

(remember that "infinite" tetromino room? That was awesome. This discussion is reminding me of some of those cool later puzzles)

I went around the world picking up the anti cubes I was able to get with the key, but now I feel that the numbers are needed for the rest of them. I feel like I've been hitting the numbers for around 2 hours and trying different things on the Bell, but nothing has clicked. I used picture 6 as a way to justify that the numbers next the tetris stuff were 1,2 and 3 going from right to left since those were the steps used to break up the key into individual parts and then turn it on its side like the alphabet.

It felt like such a long time ago that I decided the steps for solving the tetris line proved the numbers as 1,2, and 3. I don't know how I forgot that I was going to use that as a basis for everything else. It must have been the excitement of going to solve those tetris lines. I'll amend my line of thinking and accept that info as a mathematical proof.

#37 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: Cool. Now, as I said, I think you've already shown that you have a good reason to know 0,1,2,3,4. So, looking at what you know, 0 and 4 should stick out. How are 1, 2, 3 related? Could they logically lead to one other number?

#38 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Cool. Now, as I said, I think you've already shown that you have a good reason to know 0,1,2,3,4. So, looking at what you know, 0 and 4 should stick out. How are 1, 2, 3 related? Could they logically lead to one other number?

I'm not that fast on the uptake, but it does make sense (correct me if I'm wrong) that the diagram with the A=A and A=B relationship has to be the number 3 because the aliens bestowed the race with the ability to perceive the 3rd dimension and the school picture with the teacher shows that symbol is their pictorial representation for a cube and is further supported by the two overlapping squares (3rd dimension) in the diagram. The "C" pointed down has to be 3 also.

#39 Edited by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Cool. Now, as I said, I think you've already shown that you have a good reason to know 0,1,2,3,4. So, looking at what you know, 0 and 4 should stick out. How are 1, 2, 3 related? Could they logically lead to one other number?

I'm not that fast on the uptake, but it does make sense (correct me if I'm wrong) that the diagram with the A=A and A=B relationship has to be the number 3 because the aliens bestowed the race with the ability to perceive the 3rd dimension and the school picture with the teacher shows that symbol is their pictorial representation for a cube and is further supported by the two overlapping squares (3rd dimension) in the diagram. The "C" pointed down has to be 3 also.

Nice.

It may also help if you stop focusing so much on the frames of the numbers. As they say, what matters is what's on the inside. <3

#40 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -
@TruthTellah

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Cool. Now, as I said, I think you've already shown that you have a good reason to know 0,1,2,3,4. So, looking at what you know, 0 and 4 should stick out. How are 1, 2, 3 related? Could they logically lead to one other number?

I'm not that fast on the uptake, but it does make sense (correct me if I'm wrong) that the diagram with the A=A and A=B relationship has to be the number 3 because the aliens bestowed the race with the ability to perceive the 3rd dimension and the school picture with the teacher shows that symbol is their pictorial representation for a cube and is further supported by the two overlapping squares (3rd dimension) in the diagram. The "C" pointed down has to be 3 also.

Nice.

It may also help if you stop focusing so much on the frames of the numbers. As they say, what matters is what's on the inside. <3

I can confirm that "c" pointed left is the number 4 as confirmed by the map order for the multi door rooms in the graveyard. I see a clear clockwise rotation for the c shape in numbers 1-4. Pursuing that line if thinking.
#41 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: Good. So you have 1-4 and are really close to 0.

Now, once again, as far as the numbers are concerned, I wouldn't focus on thinking about the symbols as "c"s or anything like that. It's what's on the inside that counts. <3

#42 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Good. So you have 1-4 and are really close to 0.

Now, once again, as far as the numbers are concerned, I wouldn't focus on thinking about the symbols as "c"s or anything like that. It's what's on the inside that counts. <3

I'll start on the numbers again once I play again later, but I am a bit concerned that after having a few anti cubes left I still have a single bit missing to complete the last golden cube. Is it possible to still be missing a single bit somewhere on the map in a ? mark area or a still blank box area that I haven't entered? I hope the game didn't glitch on me.

#43 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Good. So you have 1-4 and are really close to 0.

Now, once again, as far as the numbers are concerned, I wouldn't focus on thinking about the symbols as "c"s or anything like that. It's what's on the inside that counts. <3

I'll start on the numbers again once I play again later, but I am a bit concerned that after having a few anti cubes left I still have a single bit missing to complete the last golden cube. Is it possible to still be missing a single bit somewhere on the map in a ? mark area or a still blank box area that I haven't entered? I hope the game didn't glitch on me.

Don't fret. Fez has more than enough cubes. A glitch isn't going to keep you from getting them all; a glitch is more likely to give you extra.

If you're missing a bit, you should see a place with only three gold blocks on the map. If there's a gold cube there and you've gotten any bits, you should have some indication. And by the end, if memory serves me correctly, I do believe almost the entire map will be gold with no question marks by the end. Without looking at your map, I can't exactly give a more specific response, but I'm guessing you're not glitched to have too few. There are plenty of extra.

#44 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin said:

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Good. So you have 1-4 and are really close to 0.

Now, once again, as far as the numbers are concerned, I wouldn't focus on thinking about the symbols as "c"s or anything like that. It's what's on the inside that counts. <3

I'll start on the numbers again once I play again later, but I am a bit concerned that after having a few anti cubes left I still have a single bit missing to complete the last golden cube. Is it possible to still be missing a single bit somewhere on the map in a ? mark area or a still blank box area that I haven't entered? I hope the game didn't glitch on me.

Don't fret. Fez has more than enough cubes. A glitch isn't going to keep you from getting them all; a glitch is more likely to give you extra.

If you're missing a bit, you should see a place with only three gold blocks on the map. If there's a gold cube there and you've gotten any bits, you should have some indication. And by the end, if memory serves me correctly, I do believe almost the entire map will be gold with no question marks by the end. Without looking at your map, I can't exactly give a more specific response, but I'm guessing you're not glitched to have too few. There are plenty of extra.

I didn't notice any visible area of the map showing a location of a bit. If I'm remembering right I have like 5 anti cubes left. I can think of one blank room that connects to a room with portraits of different parts of the world (near telescope area) and its labeled as gold. The other blank room is blocked by the final door. I think there might be one other blank, but I'm not sure on that.

What do you mean extra cubes? You can get more cubes than are needed to open the final door?

#45 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin said:

What do you mean extra cubes? You can get more cubes than are needed to open the final door?

Yes. That's how the real final score is 209.4% complete. But I won't give away any of that.

Did you solve the Monolith? Since you don't have the numbers completed or the alphabet, I'm guessing that's a negatory.

Also, have you completed the infinite tetromino room or the treasure maps?

#46 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin said:

What do you mean extra cubes? You can get more cubes than are needed to open the final door?

Yes. That's how the real final score is 209.4% complete. But I won't give away any of that.

Did you solve the Monolith? Since you don't have the numbers completed or the alphabet, I'm guessing that's a negatory.

Also, have you completed the infinite tetromino room or the treasure maps?

I have one ripped treasure map left with the polytron logo that I know goes with the room with the same logo on the floor.

I have the clock with maybe 1 anti cube left on it.

I believe I have a tuning fork left in that crazy purple/pink world with the music and disappearing blocks. Has glowly lights in the darkness.

I have the blinking light on the telescope (tetris line solved there)

I have the bell unsolved.

I have a room with a bunch of blocks with the alphabet on them and a block with lots of words that I was too lazy to translate.

That's all I have left off the top of my head. Oh, and that blank room that connects to the portrait room. The last artifact (I have 3) might be there.

#47 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

Well now! Seems like you have quite a bit! And a lot for not having gotten the numbers yet. Cool. Have you got the Alphabet? I mean, the Alphabet is -nuts-; so, I wouldn't blame anyone for just looking it up. ha. By the end, though, I could certainly read what everything said.

How about the Boiler Room or the number puzzles? It seems like it'd be hard to get those without the full 0-10. And the infinite tetromino room is solved? I'd say that's impressive!

You're closer than I thought. I guess you just need to figure out the numbers and then do the last obscure stuff. :)

#48 Posted by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

Well now! Seems like you have quite a bit! And a lot for not having gotten the numbers yet. Cool. Have you got the Alphabet? I mean, the Alphabet is -nuts-; so, I wouldn't blame anyone for just looking it up. ha. By the end, though, I could certainly read what everything said.

How about the Boiler Room or the number puzzles? It seems like it'd be hard to get those without the full 0-10. And the infinite tetromino room is solved? I'd say that's impressive!

You're closer than I thought. I guess you just need to figure out the numbers and then do the last obscure stuff. :)

I actually had the alphabet before I beat the game the first time months ago. In my OP post you could see that I have the English alphabet listed, but I guess it's hard to make out that I had each symbol printed below it. I had heard some vague hint on the bombcast about going to the forest and on a return visit I immediately knew what it was the moment I saw it. I was born in 1986 and the computer lab had a poster of it. Typing classes on keyboards also had you type out the phrase. It's the type of thing you simply wouldn't know if you weren't exposed to it at school. I actually solved the tetris line code at the key pillar because I saw the RT and LT tetris pieces didn't work unless you turned it on its side like the alphabet. It was a bit later when I noticed that the diagram actually listed the steps to break it down as 1,2,3 to lead me on my number quest.

I have 4 of the 8 numbers for the boiler room so I could technically brute force my way into solving that thing, but that will be a last resort.

I knew the infinite tetromino room was the same thing as the tetris lines I had seen all around the world, I just didn't know how to solve it. Once I had the key I knew how to write it down and solve it.

I'm planning to hit the numbers again when I mop another 2 or so anti cubes I know I can solved.

#49 Posted by TruthTellah (9470 posts) -

@golguin: Good stuff. :)

As far as the Boiler Room, some have used it to force through figuring out the rest of the numbers(once you have 0-8, 9 and 10 aren't hard). So, that's certainly an option. But the math equations you've already seen have enough to figure out the numbers without forcing anything.

#50 Edited by golguin (4041 posts) -

@TruthTellah said:

@golguin: Good stuff. :)

As far as the Boiler Room, some have used it to force through figuring out the rest of the numbers(once you have 0-8, 9 and 10 aren't hard). So, that's certainly an option. But the math equations you've already seen have enough to figure out the numbers without forcing anything.

Interesting thing with the clock. I remember getting two anti cubes from it, but I didn't remember where the hands pointed. I feel that this prevented me from knowing the solution, although I know you had to manually changed the time to something specific. I only remember two anti cubes appearing one right after the other in the same spot literally seconds after each other.

I now know what those anti cubes were. It was the fastest hand and the slowest hand. All I had left was the minute adjustment hand and the hour adjustment hand so after coming back to the thing from months of not playing it just looked like a normal clock to be set to a specific time.

In any case, I think I have one anti cube left and 1 single golden bit left to reach 64 total. I feel that last gold bit is glitched into nothingness.

EDIT: SERIOUS PROBLEM. I have 32 anti cubes, and still one single gold bit left. I solved the bell by using some assumptions from the boiler room that makes the "=" sign either a 6 or an actual equal sign as the solution can be 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 or 1+2+3+4+5=7+8.

I used the assumed 5 to plug into the 3 equations and it spit out the box with the four little cubes as 10. I used that on the bell with the equals sign as a 6 and the others I know to solve it. Now I just have to make sense why the symbols are what they are in the counting system and how clockwise rotation works with some and not others.

Main issue is there is a single golden bit missing. I can't open the final door.

EDIT 2: Looking at my map I have two blank rooms. One blank room is behind the final door. The last blank room connected to a small room with pictures of various locations of the world. Go outside and the facade of the building is greek in origin. Leaving that area connects to the clock.

I have two question marks. One question mark is the final door and the other question mark is in the room with the markings on the floor that resemble the torn map.

Only two blanks and two question marks. Everything else is gold.

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