That thought came to my mind while reading this article: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/327700/final-fantasy-vii-remake-would-take-too-long-square/

Especially the last statement:

Graphically they weren't as advanced as they are now, but there were lots of towns and worlds and cities and whatever. So if we were to recreate the same kind of game - sequel or not - with the same volume, but give it a much higher level of graphical quality, it would us take three times, four times, even ten times longer to make such a game. So making a sequel for an old game would be a lot more challenging.

Is this actually why Versus takes so long?

Because the game seems to feature some of those aspects. A big, more open world, live combat without switching to a battle screen, airships, a car to move around places. Sounds like a lot of content, a lot more than XIII and XIII-2 had. And considering the graphical quality, this game will be huge. My XIII-2 savegame was already 23MB big, which beat my biggest savefile until then (Skyrim with 11 MB).

So, maybe the first XIII games were just warm-ups to keep the crowd in line? Think about it, if we were to wait five or six years until the first FF comes out on a next-gen console, the expectations would be overwhelming. It could be a tactical move to release two "minor" games until the big one comes out. Their production would be cheaper, but they would still sell well.

Just a theory tho.

No, you dont make games that fill time, you make games that sell.

Unless your Double Fine (then you make games you want to make, No one tells double fine what game to make )

@Dagbiker said:

No, you dont make games that fill time, you make games that sell.

Unless your Double Fine (then you make games you want to make, No one tells double fine what game to make )

Or X-SEED (then you publish games that won't sell, but damn it, they need to be sold!).

@Dagbiker said:

No, you dont make games that fill time, you make games that sell.

As I mentioned above, their production would be cheaper, but they would still sell well.

Killing two birds with one stone.

@Morrow said:

@Dagbiker said:

No, you dont make games that fill time, you make games that sell.

As I mentioned above, their production would be cheaper, but they would still sell well.

Killing two birds with one stone.

Then they arnt time fillers, i mean, im sure in some ones eyes they are, but no.

I get your points although i think they really wanted this nova crystal whatever it was called series to be a big deal of a Thing in terms of a world they could keep coming back to.

Besides Versus has never been in full production, its only just gone into that at the end of 2011 that it went into that phase.

@Dagbiker said:

Then they arnt time fillers, i mean, im sure in some ones eyes they are, but no.

Don't get me wrong, I liked FFXIII and I really enjoyed FFXIII-2. I can't compare them with other titles of the franchise since I never owned a PS2 and can't compare.

But one point of criticism even from the ppl who like the games is the linearity. A linearity you usually don't find in modern RPGs, so why in Final Fantasy? I was just wondering why and came to the conclusion this might be the reason.

@KittyMeggerz said:

I get your points although i think they really wanted this nova crystal whatever it was called series to be a big deal of a Thing in terms of a world they could keep coming back to.

Well, I like the Fabula Nova Crystallis universe and it's characters.

To make it something big to come back to tho, they should add more content, and more possibilities for the player, I think.

I mean, I'm just a casual gamer, I own about 70 PS3 games but have only 3 platinum trophies (._.), ahem, because most optional content in a game doesn't captivate me enough to go through it. I got platinum for FFXIII-2 after 5 days. I really liked the setting in XIII-2, and would have loved to spend more time in that world, but I had everything done... rather quickly.

So maybe they didn't tap the full potential of the first two games because production time would be way too long? It's just an assumption of mine that they might save all the "big stuff" for the third and final game.

@KittyMeggerz said:

Besides Versus has never been in full production, its only just gone into that at the end of 2011 that it went into that phase.

Erm, as I mentioned, I'm just a casual gamer and don't know a lot about the process of developing a video game... ^^;

So I assume that means so far they only did the planning? No work on the actual game? But we already saw cutscenes in trailers... please enlighten me ^^

@Morrow said:

I mean, I'm just a casual gamer, I own about 70 PS3 games

...what?

Every time I see a thread title about FFXIII I think that a sequel to XIII has been announced.

@StarvingGamer said:

@Morrow said:

I mean, I'm just a casual gamer, I own about 70 PS3 games

...what?

lol, you have to read it in the right context: I own about 70 games BUT have only 3 platinum trophies, which means I'm not one of those hardcore gamers that pwn every game they play... I would never dare to touch Demons Souls or a Ninja Gaiden game :P

@nintendoeats said:

Every time I see a thread title about FFXIII I think that a sequel to XIII has been announced.

Well theres XIII-2 :D

@Morrow said:

@nintendoeats said:

Every time I see a thread title about FFXIII I think that a sequel to XIII has been announced.

Well theres XIII-2 :D

No...

XIII

@nintendoeats said:

@Morrow said:

@nintendoeats said:

Every time I see a thread title about FFXIII I think that a sequel to XIII has been announced.

Well theres XIII-2 :D

No...

XIII

Oh, my bad, I wasn't aware of that game ^^

@Morrow said:

@nintendoeats said:

@Morrow said:

@nintendoeats said:

Every time I see a thread title about FFXIII I think that a sequel to XIII has been announced.

Well theres XIII-2 :D

No...

XIII

Oh, my bad, I wasn't aware of that game ^^

FUCK. I'M OFFICIALLY OLD.

@Morrow said:

So I assume that means so far they only did the planning? No work on the actual game? But we already saw cutscenes in trailers... please enlighten me ^^

Im sure allot more than planning has been done on the game from what we've seen so far, im not really familar with how they are made and what teams SE has and what they consist of, but in the couple actual gameplay trailers we've seen that could of been all the semi polished content they had created for the game on the limited staff or time they've been using on the game, who knows how much of the game has actually been created aside from the basic foundations of the battle systems and such.

@nintendoeats said:

FUCK. I'M OFFICIALLY OLD.

Aww don't mind me, there are a lot of games I don't know ^.^;;;

@KittyMeggerz said:

@Morrow said:

So I assume that means so far they only did the planning? No work on the actual game? But we already saw cutscenes in trailers... please enlighten me ^^

Im sure allot more than planning has been done on the game from what we've seen so far, im not really familar with how they are made and what teams SE has and what they consist of, but in the couple actual gameplay trailers we've seen that could of been all the semi polished content they had created for the game on the limited staff or time they've been using on the game, who knows how much of the game has actually been created aside from the basic foundations of the battle systems and such.

I see. So all we have is theories based on little information D: oh well. I'm still looking forward to it.

so that's it, the dream is dead.

it's depressing to hear that a game as fully realized as ff7 can't happen because it would take too long. goddamn logistics. "we coouuuld do it, but.. we can't". at least there are still people like fumito ueda around who are willing to sacrifice for their vision.

god final fantasy 7 was so damn good. i played hundreds of hours. breeding chocobos. defeating the weapons... (damn you emerald weapon) just so god damn good.... i want another game like that

@killacam said:

so that's it, the dream is dead.

it's depressing to hear that a game as fully realized as ff7 can't happen because it would take too long. goddamn logistics. "we coouuuld do it, but.. we can't". at least there are still people like fumito ueda around who are willing to sacrifice for their vision.

I agree that it's too bad. I am pretty sure they would do it if it would be profitable, which it would assumingly be, considering the HUGE fanbase VII has. I'm sure they would sell a lot of copies of that game. So not taking that chance must mean the time and effort required would be so massive it really wouldn't pay off and working on it, on a full scale, would delay all the other games SE would be working on.

However, I read they are doing an HD remake of X.

Since Final Fantasy no longer means "make the best game we can or we go under," and instead means "well another 18 months has passed, we should probably try to sell something using this franchise we've built up," it was more of a time filler for Square than gamers.

@Morrow said:

@KittyMeggerz said:

@Morrow said:

I see. So all we have is theories based on little information D: oh well. I'm still looking forward to it.

Pretty excited for it too, be interesting to see how well it is to compared something like Kingdom Hearts, least im assuming that's its a more realistic ish crazy anime fantasy adventure game. Intrested to see how it will fit in with the actual universe that they created, time period ect. Or if it have anything at all or any referential stuff to do with XIII.

FF7 was great back in the 90's, but it's aged pretty horribly and the reason most people like it so much is nostalgia only

@MrKlorox said:

Since Final Fantasy no longer means "make the best game we can or we go under," and instead means "well another 18 months has passed, we should probably try to sell something using this franchise we've built up," it was more of a time filler for Square than gamers.

I am guessing you have this impression because of FFXIII and its follower?

Considering my theory, they never meant to make XIII and XIII-2 "the best game" but saving their effort for Versus. I don't think you should abandon the thought there will be a Final Fantasy of the next generation that'll knock you off your feet. I have faith they will make Versus the next-gen FF we have been waiting for :)

@Animasta said:

FF7 was great back in the 90's, but it's aged pretty horribly and the reason most people like it so much is nostalgia only

That is the case with most older games. I'll always treasure Secret of Mana but the visuals are just so outdated I can't play it anymore.

I tried playing VII but was chased away by the graphics. Too bad I didn't play it when it was released.

@MrKlorox said:

Since Final Fantasy no longer means "make the best game we can or we go under," and instead means "well another 18 months has passed, we should probably try to sell something using this franchise we've built up," it was more of a time filler for Square than gamers.

I am guessing you have this impression because of FFXIII and its follower?

@KittyMeggerz said:

@Morrow said:

@KittyMeggerz said:

@Morrow said:

I see. So all we have is theories based on little information D: oh well. I'm still looking forward to it.

Pretty excited for it too, be interesting to see how well it is to compared something like Kingdom Hearts, least im assuming that's its a more realistic ish crazy anime fantasy adventure game. Intrested to see how it will fit in with the actual universe that they created, time period ect. Or if it have anything at all or any referential stuff to do with XIII.

I think I once read that it won't be related to XIII and XIII-2, but simply being set in the same universe. Although I could definately see a connection to the events of XIII and XIII-2, since Noctis is said to be "the last prince of a decaying kingdom" and at the end of XIII-2... well, after chaos is released over Grand Pulse the world is decaying.

So the story of Versus could be that, maybe a few hundred years after that (more or less), Noctis could try to release Lightning from crystal stasis/resurrect Etro to change the sad fate of the world. lol but it'll probably be something entirely different. I just love to take the original story of a game/movie and change it the way I like it, creating alternate endings and stuff :D

I still don't believe their claim that having actual cities and a more 'open' world would take as long as they claim it would to make.

For perspective, FF13 took.. what, 5-6 years to make? (according to the GB wiki it was first shown off at E3 06, which would mean it would probably have to of been in development for at least a year before that, maybe two, and then didn't release until 2012.) They are saying that creating a game like FF7 (as a rough example, but FF6, 7, 8, 9 all work) could take up to sixty (60) fucking years. At minimum, according to them, it could take eighteen (18) years. Duke Nukem Forever didn't even take that long. Let's be generous and say that it only took 5 years to develop 13 and get it shipped out, that's stil 15-50 years. I'm not saying it wouldn't take them longer, but I am saying that if it would take them 18-60 years to recreate a game that already has all of the characters, story, etc. developed, then maybe Square needs to stop worrying about whether or not they can make something as absurdly pretty as they can despite not needing to do so (for several reasons) and get some people that can work in a timely manner.

@MrKlorox said:

@Morrow said:

@MrKlorox said:

Since Final Fantasy no longer means "make the best game we can or we go under," and instead means "well another 18 months has passed, we should probably try to sell something using this franchise we've built up," it was more of a time filler for Square than gamers.

I am guessing you have this impression because of FFXIII and its follower?

Not only those, but all things Final Fantasy. From re-releases and re-makes to spin-off series, Square seems to be riding on their past success instead of treating the games they make like they're the saving throws for the company. As if they've grown content in knowing that the last Final Fantasy won't be the final Final Fantasy.

Well, as long as the FF games sell well, there will never be a final Final Fantasy. I've been playing and enjoying some of the Nintendo DS FF spin-offs, and must say a Final Fantasy title is always a guaranteed JRPG. And since the only console I own is a PS3, which doesn't get as many (J)RPG releases than other consoles, I am happy about everything.

But maybe you should consider that it is an actual effort to create a game with a compelling storyline and captivating characters. Sometimes it just doesn't work out, there is no "spark" on the developers side or they don't have enough ideas or whatever. Not everything you do can be the best you've ever done, which doesn't mean you have to stop trying :)

@FateOfNever said:

I still don't believe their claim that having actual cities and a more 'open' world would take as long as they claim it would to make.

For perspective, FF13 took.. what, 5-6 years to make? (according to the GB wiki it was first shown off at E3 06, which would mean it would probably have to of been in development for at least a year before that, maybe two, and then didn't release until 2012.) They are saying that creating a game like FF7 (as a rough example, but FF6, 7, 8, 9 all work) could take up to sixty (60) fucking years. At minimum, according to them, it could take eighteen (18) years. Duke Nukem Forever didn't even take that long. Let's be generous and say that it only took 5 years to develop 13 and get it shipped out, that's stil 15-50 years. I'm not saying it wouldn't take them longer, but I am saying that if it would take them 18-60 years to recreate a game that already has all of the characters, story, etc. developed, then maybe Square needs to stop worrying about whether or not they can make something as absurdly pretty as they can despite not needing to do so (for several reasons) and get some people that can work in a timely manner.

The reason FFXIII took so long was because it was developed for PS2, and later had to be upgraded for PS3.

And I don't think he should be taken literally with the "ten times as long"... he was probably just saying that to underline the fact that they will just not make it.

@Morrow said:

@FateOfNever said:

I still don't believe their claim that having actual cities and a more 'open' world would take as long as they claim it would to make.

For perspective, FF13 took.. what, 5-6 years to make? (according to the GB wiki it was first shown off at E3 06, which would mean it would probably have to of been in development for at least a year before that, maybe two, and then didn't release until 2012.) They are saying that creating a game like FF7 (as a rough example, but FF6, 7, 8, 9 all work) could take up to sixty (60) fucking years. At minimum, according to them, it could take eighteen (18) years. Duke Nukem Forever didn't even take that long. Let's be generous and say that it only took 5 years to develop 13 and get it shipped out, that's stil 15-50 years. I'm not saying it wouldn't take them longer, but I am saying that if it would take them 18-60 years to recreate a game that already has all of the characters, story, etc. developed, then maybe Square needs to stop worrying about whether or not they can make something as absurdly pretty as they can despite not needing to do so (for several reasons) and get some people that can work in a timely manner.

The reason FFXIII took so long was because it was developed for PS2, and later had to be upgraded for PS3.

And I don't think he should be taken literally with the "ten times as long"... he was probably just saying that to underline the fact that they will just not make it.

The problem then, however, is let's give him a benefit of the doubt, right, and say he was only talking about in comparison to FF13-2. So the sequel took 2 years (maybe 3 depending on if they started work before 13 was released or not, but, let's say 2) to make. At the lowest amount of time, that would be 6 years. Considering how long most FF games take to make, 6 years is not a long time. By that same account, however, if remaking a property like 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 would take them 6-60 years (hey, the man said it, I'll use it as a point of reference) because of it having actual cities in it, then that would, hypothetically mean, we will never again see a final fantasy where you can walk around in a town freely, where there will be sort of an open world map to travel between towns in, we will never again see a Final Fantasy with the scope of a world the likes of the NES-SNES-PS1 era because "it would take us too long because we can't figure out how to make towns." I call bullshit on that, and if that's what we have to look forward to in regards to the FF series from now on, with no hope of ever not being forced to follow narrow corridors with no freedom to roam cities or see a whole world opened up before us, then color me considerably less interested in the future of the FF franchise.

Why is it that everyone wants a remake of an already played-into-the-ground title. I play FFVII, it was good. I played every FF up from that point, including the MMO's, and they were fine. People need to stop believing their nostalgia glands and look to the future instead of the past.

@ccampb89 said:

Why is it that everyone wants a remake of an already played-into-the-ground title. I play FFVII, it was good. I played every FF up from that point, including the MMO's, and they were fine. People need to stop believing their nostalgia glands and look to the future instead of the past.

I agree. Although I can understand the call for a VII remake, since it has probably the most memorable characters in the Final Fantasy franchise. Sometimes you grow a liking to something so much you just can't let go of it.

I, personally, got interested in the characters after watching Advent Children. A VII remake with graphics similar to that would not only be a great experience for gamers who played the original but also a great opportunity for new players to dive into the world of VII.

However, I think people need to become more open-minded towards new things as well.

@Morrow said:

@ccampb89 said:

Why is it that everyone wants a remake of an already played-into-the-ground title. I play FFVII, it was good. I played every FF up from that point, including the MMO's, and they were fine. People need to stop believing their nostalgia glands and look to the future instead of the past.

I agree. Although I can understand the call for a VII remake, since it has probably the most memorable characters in the Final Fantasy franchise. Sometimes you grow a liking to something so much you just can't let go of it.

I, personally, got interested in the characters after watching Advent Children. A VII remake with graphics similar to that would not only be a great experience for gamers who played the original but also a great opportunity for new players to dive into the world of VII.

However, I think people need to become more open-minded towards new things as well.

I just think that a sequel would be a better route. Remakes have always been a shameful cash-cow to me, when what I really want is a sequel that expands on the characters stories and gives me more to love rather than just reading the same stuff all over again. They could expand on the universe, characters, development, and overall have more freedom than rehashing an old game with new graphics, cut-scenes, and better translation.

I guess it just makes me angry to see a company severing it's development to remake something that can be easily enjoyed by other means. This slows down development for a better and newer title or makes it disappear completely.

@ccampb89:

Hmm, I see your point. But a sequel can also be a burden, think of all the bad movie sequels. A bad sequel can even harm the reputation of the first installment. Although I generally agree with the argument that a sequel expands the experience regarding the game environment.

Yes, remakes are mostly made for the profit. But I must say I am very happy about the ICO/Shadow of the Colossus HD remake, otherwise I would have never been able to play those gems.

It is a double-edged sword really.

@biospank said:

Its a fun theory you have there but I don't think so beccause nomura said something about there where a split in the team with linear bassed levels or more open levels so ffvs13 would kinda show that.

Hmm that is interesting. Are you sure this only affects Versus?

Because this "split" can also be seen in both XIII and XIII-2. It's actually the main difference of the two games. And XIII-2, which is a lot less linear compared to it's predecessor, got a lot more positive feedback from the fans. So maybe they'll be following that route for Versus? Maybe when they couldn't decide for linear/non-linear they decided to test it out with XIII and XIII-2, to see which is more popular among the gamers. That would mean they didn't make XIII-2 more open only because of the criticism of XIII, but planned to do so all along. Could be a possibility :D

Versus 13 is most likely vaporware by this point. It's been, what, 7 years since it was announced?

@Enigma777 said:

Versus 13 is most likely vaporware by this point. It's been, what, 7 years since it was announced?

I highly doubt that SE would miss out on the profit this game would make.

pretty much yes it was filler to make money Square cant make anything good anymore in my eyes.

@Morrow said:

@Enigma777 said:

Versus 13 is most likely vaporware by this point. It's been, what, 7 years since it was announced?

I highly doubt that SE would miss out on the profit this game would make.

At some point the cost of finishing a game becomes greater than it's estimated profits.

@Enigma777 said:

@Morrow said:

@Enigma777 said:

Versus 13 is most likely vaporware by this point. It's been, what, 7 years since it was announced?

I highly doubt that SE would miss out on the profit this game would make.

At some point the cost of finishing a game becomes greater than it's estimated profits.

Well, they went into full production just in September 2011, so I think we should give them some time to actually do something with the game.

I just think it was announced way too soon. But knowing it would be the last of the three games of the Fabula Nova Crystallis universe, it is kinda logical we have to wait for it the longest.

@WilliamRLBaker said:

pretty much yes it was filler to make money Square cant make anything good anymore in my eyes.

I actually liked the Fabula Nova Crystallis games so far, and I'm pretty sure with Versus they'll finally do the game FF fans have been waiting for ^^

@Morrow said:

@Enigma777 said:

@Morrow said:

@Enigma777 said:

Versus 13 is most likely vaporware by this point. It's been, what, 7 years since it was announced?

I highly doubt that SE would miss out on the profit this game would make.

At some point the cost of finishing a game becomes greater than it's estimated profits.

Well, they went into full production just in September 2011, so I think we should give them some time to actually do something with the game.

I just think it was announced way too soon. But knowing it would be the last of the three games of the Fabula Nova Crystallis universe, it is kinda logical we have to wait for it the longest.

Wait, they started production in September? WHAT THE FUCK?

Yup, this shit is vaporware. That or they bump it up for the next generation (a la FF13)

@Enigma777 said:

Wait, they started production in September? WHAT THE FUCK?

Yup, this shit is vaporware. That or they bump it up for the next generation (a la FF13)

In my opinion they already made touch too much about the game to simply stop developing it, think of all the trailers we've seen. They've already made a portion of cutscenes, why do this effort if they don't plan to continue?

BTW, there's news from January, just one month ago: http://www.psu.com/Final-Fantasy-Versus-XIII-to-be-shown-in-real-time-next-time-we-see-it--a014119-p0.php

If they'd drop it, i highly doubt they'd keep talking about it. That would just make the gamers' reactions worse.

@Morrow: Then they'll bump it up to the next generation. And we'll probably have to wait another 4 years while they remake everything. -__-

I swear we'll be playing FF16-4 by the time this shit comes out.

@Enigma777 said:

@Morrow: Then they'll bump it up to the next generation. And we'll probably have to wait another 4 years while they remake everything. -__-

I swear we'll be playing FF16-4 by the time this shit comes out.

The release of PS4 is still more than 10 months away. And by that time not many ppl will get one as the price is just too high for most of them. Remember how the PS3 dropped from 1000 to 300 dollars over time? That was the time most ppl got theirs. Selling of the PS4 will be slow, just as the sales of the Vita are slow.

Waiting with Versus until enough ppl own a PS4 so the sales will make up for the production cost would be insane. I don't think they would do that. It's just not profitable.

@Morrow: You really don't know how SE operates, do you? They don't follow logic...

@Enigma777 said:

Well, so far most is just up for speculation, so it doesn't make much sense to discuss a matter that doesn't have much info yet. So let's just leave it that way.