Ok guys, you don't like FF7, we got it. But lay off the original for the sins of the series.

They have such nostalgia for the 8 and 16 bit ones that they feel justified in hopping on the hate train for 7.

Maybe it hasn't aged as well, but by itself it's at least an ok game, and a great jrpg. There's nothing objectively wrong or broken with it. I feel like they lay into for subjective reasons and spite for somehow denigrating the games before.

who?

@Bell_End: Brad and Jeff said that they don't like FF7. Cue butthurt.

Goddamn, stop being such a sensitive whiner.

my fave ff but... c'mon. don't do this.

@Bell_End: Brad and Jeff said that they don't like FF7. Cue butthurt.

I was thinking about making a thread about this myself. I find it a lot in the games industry when there's talk of Final Fantasy people go out of their way to say 'FUCK VII', it just comes off as crotchety old men sitting on the porch 'back in my day, we had the good JRPGs, they don't make 'em like they used to' when in fact in all probability the last JRPG they actually played (looking at most of the GB crew) was in the 8 and 16 bit era so they just have some form of dated nostalgia. It's hipsterish at this point to hate on FFVII, just because its popular.

Now if you're going to have a constructive argument about WHY it isn't as good as the other's I'll hear you - 'Adding the materia system took away the job system and made all the characters feel the same and soulless.' There constructive criticism I could get into a conversation about. Not just blanket statement 'FUCK THAT GAME.'

In closing like for a certain age range of people Pokemon was their first RPG, my first was Final Fantasy VII and as such will always hold a special place in my development of game appreciation.

You trying to hold back a waterfall with your hands. 'A' for effort, but it just can't be done. You can't kill fanboys opinions, especially on the internet.

I liked FF7 when it came out, but I don't feel that it still stands up in 2012.

@SmilingPig said:

I liked FF7 when it came out, but I don't feel that it still stands up in 2012.

I played for the first time last year, it holds up alright if you can get past the graphics.

7 had the best characters, music and world.

Nope. Nice try though. :)

You trying to hold back a waterfall with your hands. 'A' for effort, but it just can't be done. You can't kill fanboys opinions, especially on the internet.

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

7 had the best characters, music and world.

Characters: IX

Music: VIII

World: VI

I will not defend this, because it is subjective. I like VII. I like just about every Final Fantasy game. Calling VII the greatest game ever is going overboard, but it's a absolutely a classic JRPG.

So what if Brad and Jeff don't like it? Their dislike of it is no reason for your enjoyment of it to be diminished.

Edit: Also, in my humble opinion, FF7 wouldn't be FF7 without the funny block people. Haters gonna hate.

There's definitely an element of contrarian just for the sake of it with some of the FFVII hate, but that goes for lots of other stuff too: FFVIII, Call of Duty, Bioshock, Zelda, Facebook. Anything with that kind of popularity, that a large segment says you're supposed to like, is going to invite dissent. Take it as corroboration for its greatness, if you like it that much.

@kashif1 said:

@SmilingPig said:

I liked FF7 when it came out, but I don't feel that it still stands up in 2012.

I played for the first time last year, it holds up alright if you can get past the graphics.

Yes its mostly the graphics I guess.

I think that a lot of the people who dislike FF7 are fair-weather fans I bet you most the people who say they dislike it today loved it or at least were indifferent to it when it came out.

You shouldn't care about their opinions.

I'll say this; Brad overrates the quality of Amano's art. It is just as tropey and samey as Nomura, just with different tropes. Nomura is hyper-intricate folds and crooks in clothing, belts, zippers, straps, big chunky spikey hair and big anime eyes, with big chunky swords (chunky everything, really). Amano is willowy watercolors with billowing skirts and blouses (even on the men), pale androgynous people reclining or laying back with wispy blonde hair, clothes covered in ambiguously ethnic print, all buildings being what I believe is an Eastern Gothic style of wide bulbs and slim spires, along with all the weapons and implements used being oddly slim and full of unnatural curves and points.

Amano's style isn't 'better', it just hasn't been the 'house style' for 15 years. If it was Amano's style for the last 15, Nomura would seem like a godsend.

They tend to speak in extremes when they mention something offhand. It's not meant to be taken literally.

I really like Final Fantasy VI myself but also VII. I live in Europe so Final Fantasy VII was the first official Final Fantasy we got. But as I said I had played imported RPG:s before. But with that said I have very little understanding for people that without problem can throw Final Fantasy VII under the bus and not aknowledge it's importance in gaming history. That game was solid. It's okey to have different opinions but "f*ck that game" mentality is a bit harsh in my opinion. Final Fantasy VII did some amazing stuff, the problem is that a lot of others copied that game and today it's content consists of classical game tropes of different kinds.

@RazielCuts said:

Now if you're going to have a constructive argument about WHY it isn't as good as the other's I'll hear you - 'Adding the materia system took away the job system and made all the characters feel the same and soulless.' There constructive criticism I could get into a conversation about. Not just blanket statement 'FUCK THAT GAME.'

I have a little thing to ad to this. Final Fantasy VI Esper system made it possible to almost give every magic to all characters. In that game it was only the characters special ability like Sabins Blitz attack that was unique. I think that Final Fantasy VII system actually was more diverse because of the materia slots. Not many weapons had the exact same amount of slots and links. That game also gave each characters a bunch of unique limits breaks. So yeah.... I really don't understand why someone would hate on the materia system but be okey with the Esper system.

I want to ad that write thise based on memories. I may be a bit of but that is how I experienced those two games when I played them many many years ago.

Kewl ur jets bro. Its just, like, their opinions, maaaan.

@Leptok said:

@The_Nubster

@Bell_End: Brad and Jeff said that they don't like FF7. Cue butthurt.

It's the vehemence they use to denounce it, like it came to their house and murdered their grandmother.

you gotta stay fresh

Um, they DIDN'T talk about the game like it murdered their grandmother or exploded their play station. They made some passing comments that you interpret as a tirade because they struck a chord. They've had worse to say about beloved games before.

They tend to speak in extremes when they mention something offhand. It's not meant to be taken literally.

FFVII was pretty good. I think I like the music and art-style more than the GAME part, though.

@Brodehouse: No game didn't really look like Amanos art either. It's a wierd thing to judge an old game by it's artstyle because the old games (and IX actually) did not have Amano's flair. It got warped to a cutesy chibi-style game instead. And just to be clear, I have no problem with that, I liked how the old Final Fantasy games looked like.

But here is the wierd thing. Nomuras art actually shines through in the design of the newer games. It is of course because of more power in the consoles but it's more logical to like or don't like Nomura's style IN THE GAMES than to give high praise to Amano's style that we did not see anything of in the old games. That is just wierd.

Stop the butthurt. The game's great, I love it and I do not agree with their opinion on it, but I really don't like whining.

I've noticed the hate thing as well, but it seems to go in phases. It's popular to hate on it these days. Very rarely is any real good arguments given.

I've played through 7 more times than many other games I have and tried to look at it with objective eyes as well. It's not the best game in the world, and not the best JRPG, but it is not a bad game by any means. It's got fun characters, a charming and interesting world, and interesting materia system (that might not be to everyones taste for sure), fantastic music and a pretty epic story that is somewhat butchered by the translation. Personally I got a lot of nostalgia for it and for that reason I enjoy it more than probably others, but I can see that there are aspects of it that might not have aged as well, still, even today it's not a bad game. I've had friends who never played it back in the day play through it and come back to me saying that they liked it, not best-game-in-the-world liked it, but they thought it was a decent fun game.

@SmilingPig said:

I liked FF7 when it came out, but I don't feel that it still stands up in 2012.

Agreed. It was a fine game when it came out but just like all early 3D stuff, it just looks grimey and aweful by today's standards mostly due to the copious amount of extremely low-res pre-rendered backgrounds. Early 3D-era graphics and music just don't have the same retro charm that 2D games do because to me they're in this weird, video game "uncanny valley". The art assets and instruments used certainly come closer to what they're trying to emulate than, say those of a NES or SNES game, but that just helps to further highlight how incredibly far off they really are.

It's like they resent Ff7 being so popular that the people who made 7 got put in charge of making the rest. The sort of "ah man, they took it away from us and made it mainstream" at least that's the way I think Brad feels, I can't remember why Jeff hated it, maybe the same reason.

@Leptok said:

Ok guys, you don't like FF7, we got it. But lay off the original for the sins of the series. They have such nostalgia for the 8 and 16 bit ones that they feel justified in hopping on the hate train for 7. Maybe it hasn't aged as well, but by itself it's at least an ok game, and a great jrpg. There's nothing objectively wrong or broken with it. I feel like they lay into for subjective reasons and spite for somehow denigrating the games before.

They didn't go off on FF7 with a great amount of disdain, this is a bit of an exaggeration. But lump me in with the haters of FF7. Replacing Yoshitaka Amano with Tetsuya Nomura destroyed the Final Fantasy series forever.

Um, they DIDN'T talk about the game like it murdered their grandmother or exploded their play station. They made some passing comments that you interpret as a tirade because they struck a chord. They've had worse to say about beloved games before.

If it makes people mad, I'm all for more FF7 hate. In fact, I don't think I've heard enough of it!

@killacam said:

my fave ff but... c'mon. don't do this.

I feel the same.

Don't blame the original for the sins of the series? FF7 is like the original sin for Final Fantasy. I really wish they had waited until the PS2 era to go polygonal because polygonal graphics on the PS1 were always so atrocious, they were barely worth it. But everyone was so enamored with the concept I guess.

And then of course that's when the art-style got completely over-designed.

Also that writing... ugh, pretty bad. Aside from that it plays like literally any other JRPG, so I can't exactly commend it's gameplay for breaking new ground.

So in hindsight, I'm still going to conclude that it wasn't never very good, and that the criticism on it is justified.

You can't stop it. I like FF7.... yes, even more than 4, 5 and 6 but that won't stop people hating on a game I hold dear.

@BoG said:

@Bourbon_Warrior said:

7 had the best characters, music and world.

Characters: IX

Music: VIII

World: VI

I will not defend this, because it is subjective. I like VII. I like just about every Final Fantasy game. Calling VII the greatest game ever is going overboard, but it's a absolutely a classic JRPG.

Characters were pretty generic in 9, didn't really have alot going for them apart from Vivi just trying to be comical all the time, 8 had alright music up until your floating in space and the J Pop starts, and 6's world wasn't anything special. Opinions! 8 and 9 are my other favourite, can't get into 6.

Ok I just read the OP post and have to say, what the fuck? How is it a problem for you if they don't like FF7? They have their opinions and you have yours. It takes absolutely nothing away from you, no reason to be butthurt.

@Zaccheus said:

Ok I just read the OP post and have to say, what the fuck? How is it a problem for you if they don't like FF7? They have their opinions and you have yours. It takes absolutely nothing away from you, no reason to be butthurt.

It's one of the reasons why people dislike FF7, the hardcore FF7 fans hold that game in such high esteem that if you talk about it negatively at all they scream bloody murder. It gets to be a bit irritating.

CAN I HAVE EVRERYONE'S ATTENTION PLEASE! PLEASE STOP HATING THINGS THAT I LIKE. Thank you. Carry on.

To each his own.,

I enjoyed 7 a lot. But was it my favorite final fantasy? No , Infact I find myself in a minority of players who really like FF9.

Which gets its own truck load of hate from people. But yeah ... don't worry so much if people do not like something you enjoy. I never allowed it to ruin my experiences.

re-listening to the small section where they mention FF7 (1:45:51 for those interested), I think the hate is less for the actual game than it is the legacy of FF7. Hating on the legacy of FF7 (the fanboys, the wrong people being credited to FF7's success, Square's reaction to FF7's success, the impact it would have on JRPGs as a whole) is quite understandable. Patrick saying that FF8 is a better game still baffles me beyond belief though; I would legitimately like to know why he thinks its a better game.

I support their notion of "fuck that guy" when it comes to Cloud. I remember really disliking him (and still do, though less so). During that point where you're without Cloud, had a blast just rolling around with Vincent, Cid, and a third rotational party slot.

Though when you put Cloud next to Zack, he seems more tolerable, only because Zack is so great. I remember wanting Ergheiz so bad so I could play as Zack. And as cheesy as the weird love for him has made him seem, Sephiroth is a pretty cool villain.

All that said, this thread doesn't need to exist. You shouldn't let them not liking it bother you and certainly shouldn't try to gag them.

They don't like a game I like so I'm going to exaggerate.

@Brodehouse: I believe you played that game A LOT more than me. :D (even though I clocked 100 hours in FF VII and mabey 70 in FF VII)

I'm just saying how I interpeted the systems when i played the games during 94 and 97, without guides or help. It's a whole different world today if you want to learn really hardcore tactics. I'm not saying some didn't do that but I just feel like in todays Internet society everyone know how to optimize everything and are really quick to tell you about it. I can admit I'm not a hardcore roleplayer so I did not dive superdeep into the system. I do think you have a point comparing materia with armor because yeah... it's was possible to move around that stuff just like armour. But yeah... I still don't get the hate because of those things. I always though is was cool that Square dared to change their battle and ability systems for each new game.

And now I don't really know what more to say. I can't and won't go into a hardcore dicussion about the intricate details of the games systems because I'm not equipped to do so ^^

Final Fantasy VII: The Most Under-Appreciated Video Game of All Time

This is nothing new (i.e. FFXIII-2 discussion). I feel like the point people should take away from that Quick Look was Brad actually liked the Final Fantasy rhythm game.

I like FF7 and couldn't care less about the hate.