Alright, what am I doing wrong?

#1 Posted by natetodamax (19220 posts) -

I've been progressing through the game so far, following the paths and goals set before me, not doing anything unusual or abnormal. 
 
I thought the game was alright, but I absolutely loathe Vaan. He's like an ugly and even more bratty version of Hope from XIII. But whatever, now I got the hilarious Balthier and the adorable Fran in my party! Things can only get better right? 
 
Apparently not. Now I find myself in the dungeon with spiders that are absolutely decimating my party, and every time I get close to killing one it runs off out of range into a corner and heals completely. 
 
I feel like I'm supposed to be a dozen levels higher than what I currently am. Am I doing something wrong? I don't understand how the game expects me to fight my way through this dungeon. It's impossible.

#2 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

You gotta grind.

#3 Posted by natetodamax (19220 posts) -
@CL60 said:
" You gotta grind. "
Where am I supposed to do that?
#4 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

I dunno. Wherever you were before that dungeon I guess.

#5 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -

Not sure what to tell you there, I've been through the game twice and I had no problem at all at that part.

#6 Posted by Sincillian (530 posts) -
@natetodamax said:
" @CL60 said:
" You gotta grind. "
Where am I supposed to do that? "
Exactly where are you so far?
#7 Posted by ESREVER (2698 posts) -

Are you playing both this and Persona 4 at the same time? 
That's too much JRPG for me. I can't even play them consecutively. If I want to even be able to dream about completing it, I have to dedicate nearly my entire game time to that one game. Which I kind of do already. I can't play more than one game at a time. 
 
You should have finished XIII before starting XII though :P 
Good luck anyways, and hopefully you finish one of them this time.

#8 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -

You really don't need to grind. At least I didn't need to.

#9 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@Juno500 said:
" You really don't need to grind. At least I didn't need to. "
I think it comes down to a combination of levels and gambits.  If your gambits aren't set up in an optimal fashion, the game is likely more difficult and requires more grinding.
#10 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -

Did you try using Libra on the enemies? The spiders may have a weakness.

#11 Posted by natetodamax (19220 posts) -
@CL60 said:
" I dunno. Wherever you were before that dungeon I guess. "
I can't leave where I am (almost positive I can't). 
 
@Sincillian said:
" @natetodamax said:
" @CL60 said:
" You gotta grind. "
Where am I supposed to do that? "
Exactly where are you so far? "
I just turned on some power thing and there's a charge meter on screen and the spiders are draining it by chewing on wires throughout the dungeon. A little over 3 hours in. 
 
@ESREVER said:
" Are you playing both this and Persona 4 at the same time? That's too much JRPG for me. I can't even play them consecutively. If I want to even be able to dream about completing it, I have to dedicate nearly my entire game time to that one game. Which I kind of do already. I can't play more than one game at a time.  You should have finished XIII before starting XII though :P Good luck anyways, and hopefully you finish one of them this time. "
I'm also currently playing Tales of Vesperia too :P 
 
Also, screw XIII.
#12 Posted by Sincillian (530 posts) -
@natetodamax: Ooooh that part. I just needed a refresher. You shouldn't be having any problems there. Honestly the spiders aren't that tough. Only thing I can suggest is keep Balthier and Fran at range like they should be and draw all the attention to Vaan and keep him healed, course I haven't played the game in years so my memory of what weapons and abilities they have at that part are definitely skewed.
#13 Posted by natetodamax (19220 posts) -
@Sincillian: I've been trying to keep Balthier and Fran at range (I'm playing as Fran because screw Vaan) but I don't think Vaan is strong enough to handle the spiders on his own. I dunno.
#14 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@natetodamax said:
" @Sincillian: I've been trying to keep Balthier and Fran at range (I'm playing as Fran because screw Vaan) but I don't think Vaan is strong enough to handle the spiders on his own. I dunno. "
Are Vaan, Fran, and Balthier your only party options at this point?
#15 Posted by gla55jAw (2697 posts) -

It's been a while but I remember as soon as I was able to do those bounty missions I started doing them. I also fought every opportunity I had and grinded in areas that gave good XP. You might just have to start grinding in the area you're in. 
 
Damn even though I have like 10 other RPGs to play, I might go and start this from the beginning, Never finished it but I loved it.

#16 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -

Your first mistake was buying Final Fantasy XII.

#17 Posted by Animasta (14726 posts) -
@HandsomeDead said:
" Your first mistake was buying Final Fantasy XII. "
boom! FFXII is the best final fantasy ever you can get out of here.
 
also, I really don't know what to say, do you have a save before that? I guess it wouldn't really matter unless you have a save before getting thrown in jail, but those spiders really shouldn't be too hard. Just set healing <30 (or 40 if you have it) and switch to your melee fighter if he's getting too banged up.
#18 Posted by project343 (2838 posts) -

Phoenix (and/or "fire bird thing") GG'd that game for me. Loved every minute of it up until then.

#19 Posted by Animasta (14726 posts) -
@project343 said:
" Phoenix (and/or "fire bird thing") GG'd that game for me. Loved every minute of it up until then. "
what... phoenix? were you in the waterways?
#20 Posted by Korolev (1726 posts) -

The spider-bugs are weak against Ice, if my memory serves me correctly. You should be able to get it off a merchant in that place, as well as potions. You should be able to grind in that place anyway since a Merchant is there (either a Lizard-dude or a warthog-dude, I can't remember, but there should be someone selling something at the start of that dungeon)

#21 Posted by project343 (2838 posts) -
@Laketown: Been a while. Believe it was a temple guardian--guarding the entrance to a temple. I remember lots of sand, and oil platforms. Then giant firey bird. Characters were not built in such a way to handle it. Failsauced.
#22 Posted by xyzygy (10078 posts) -

I'm only about 8 hours in but I remember this dungeon I just did it the other day. There really is no way to leave and grind and I don't even think I messed around with Gambits at all at that point. I flew through this area no problem though... so I really don't have any idea what to say other than make sure party members have best equipment on but that's quite obvious.

#23 Posted by dungbootle (2428 posts) -
@project343 said:
" @Laketown: Been a while. Believe it was a temple guardian--guarding the entrance to a temple. I remember lots of sand, and oil platforms. Then giant firey bird. Characters were not built in such a way to handle it. Failsauced. "
I quit at the same place. I wasn't really enjoying the game up to that point, though Tim Rogers' adoration of it has made me consider going back in. Unfortunately I don't own it anymore
#24 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@project343 said:
" @Laketown: Been a while. Believe it was a temple guardian--guarding the entrance to a temple. I remember lots of sand, and oil platforms. Then giant firey bird. Characters were not built in such a way to handle it. Failsauced. "
There's a sidequest you can do in the area before there that gets you these things called Eskir berries, these do a lot of damage to him. After that you want to have Balthier (or whoever has guns) to shoot at him with Silenceshot, and that will stop him from using his most powerful attacks.
#25 Posted by HandsomeDead (11863 posts) -
@Laketown said:
" @HandsomeDead said:
" Your first mistake was buying Final Fantasy XII. "
boom! FFXII is the best final fantasy ever you can get out of here. "
Honestly, I'd have know idea. I haven't played any since FFVIII but two of my friends have this game and both of them have pretty much had the same type of problem.
#26 Posted by project343 (2838 posts) -
@dungbootle: I understand some people enjoying difficulty, but if developers are going to put an encounter in a game that is difficult enough to force people to stop playing... why not add difficulty options? Call me a child, but I'll gladly lower it for tough fights. Frustration = game being sent right back into a used game pile somewhere.
#27 Posted by Milkman (17327 posts) -

Rule of thumb: If you need to grind, it's a bad game. 

#28 Posted by ChristianCastillo (1162 posts) -

You may be lacking skill, plan out your fight before going into battle and think of how you can possibly alter what you've been doing and do it better!

#29 Posted by ArbitraryWater (12123 posts) -

Gambit like a mo-fo. Once you have a reliable setup, the game practically plays itself. Oh wait. It already does that.

#30 Edited by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@project343 said:

" @dungbootle: I understand some people enjoying difficulty, but if developers are going to put an encounter in a game that is difficult enough to force people to stop playing... why not add difficulty options? Call me a child, but I'll gladly lower it for tough fights. Frustration = game being sent right back into a used game pile somewhere. "

They want you to try out different strategies and experiment to find a way to succeed. Simply allowing you to lower the difficulty would eliminate that. FFXII, unlike most other RPGs, made great use of buffs, debuffs and status ailments, making them actually useful against bosses, opening up a wider range of valid tactics than the typical JRPG.

Don't assume that if you can't beat a boss in an RPG, then the game is simply too hard, or that you need to grind. If you aren't making good use of the different options that the game makes available to you, then that's your own problem, not that of the game.
#31 Posted by natetodamax (19220 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @natetodamax said:
" @Sincillian: I've been trying to keep Balthier and Fran at range (I'm playing as Fran because screw Vaan) but I don't think Vaan is strong enough to handle the spiders on his own. I dunno. "
Are Vaan, Fran, and Balthier your only party options at this point? "
No. We just released Basch from his cage but he's apparently weak as butter. He was going down so fast and I wasted all my Phoenix Downs on him.
#32 Posted by PenguinDust (12636 posts) -

I've got this sitting on my shelf.  I think I'll start it up today.  Thanks for the inspiration. 

#33 Posted by Fallen189 (5052 posts) -

IM CAPTAIN BASCH VON RONSENBURG, OF DALMASCA 
 
Seriously though, my girlfriend is an FF12 master, I'll get back to you later with some help.

#34 Posted by Chocobodude3 (643 posts) -

Stop playing the game it sucks

#35 Posted by Soap (3644 posts) -

Oh god, Final Fantasy XII. The first FF I didn't finish...  
 
I know it's easy to bitch about it, but what the hell were they thinking? It's like a really boring single player MMO, the best advice I can give you is to quit now, while you've only lost about 10 hours or so because it doesn't get any better, just a whole lot more boring. 

#36 Posted by project343 (2838 posts) -
@Juno500: I figure I should say that FFXII was my first 'real' JRPG that I invested any time into. The intriguing political story with the interesting leveling/gambit/combat systems had me all sorts of interested. Odd status ailments, elemental weaknesses, etc. are not my sort of thing. I prefer the "I find big sword, kill with big sword" approach. :P 
 
I figure I should also say that I play most RPGs on easier difficulties--depending on the natural difficulty of the game. They aren't about tactical combat for me--they're about character progression and a wonderful story.
#37 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@natetodamax said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @natetodamax said:
" @Sincillian: I've been trying to keep Balthier and Fran at range (I'm playing as Fran because screw Vaan) but I don't think Vaan is strong enough to handle the spiders on his own. I dunno. "
Are Vaan, Fran, and Balthier your only party options at this point? "
No. We just released Basch from his cage but he's apparently weak as butter. He was going down so fast and I wasted all my Phoenix Downs on him. "
He'll get much more useful later, he'll find some armor and weapons later in the dungeon and he'll be able to help you out much more.
 
But seriously, use Libra and find out if the spiders have a weakness. Somebody else suggested that they may be weak to Ice, if they are then that may make things easy.
#38 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -

Also this thread just inspired me to start up a new file on the game.

#39 Edited by PenguinDust (12636 posts) -

Well, I did wind up playing the game and I am quite enjoying it although late last night I encountered a quest where I had to shout something around to increase my "notoriety".  Man, I hated that one because it degrades over time and if you're too close to a city guide you lose half your score.  Anyway, by now you've probably gotten past the spiders.  I focused on Vaan's magic so I spammed "Ice" at the giant spider, let the crew take care of the minis and healing.  I did have to use an Ether to replenish, but it worked out in the end.  I need to go talk to the Marquis later today.  I have done some grinding but most of that occurs when I am out on a hunt.  Currently I am level 13.  There are a few frustrating zones where one subdivision will be perfectly fine for you but move into the next and everything it twice as high as the mobs you just left.  So far I don't think it's a bad game (after all I put 12+ hours into it already), but it is inconsistent. 

#40 Edited by ryanwho (12082 posts) -

You don't "gotta grind" unless you suck. Fact is, its very easy to walk into an area of the game you're underleveled for. They did that on purpose. Its kind of thier way of saying "you shouldnt be here yet". This isn't dragon age, you can't just roll in and use the same bit of moves on everything. You have elemental affinity to account for and various immunities, and far more status ailments that you can get.

#41 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@PenguinDust said:
"  There are a few frustrating zones where one subdivision will be perfectly fine for you but move into the next and everything it twice as high as the mobs you just left. 
That's the game telling you that you're in the wrong spot. Use Libra and check the levels of the enemies nearby, if they're significantly higher than your party then that means you should come back later.
#42 Edited by PenguinDust (12636 posts) -
@Juno500:  Yeah, I've got a better feel for the game now than I did earlier and I see its zones are not so linear.  For example: 
 
  
I'm used to game structures being a bit more consecutive.  As I said over on a separate post of mine HERE, that I've been playing a lot more Dragon Quest lately, so this game's design was a little jarring.  Not that the same thing couldn't happen in DQ, but it's less easy to reach higher level zones before you're ready for them.   
 
Anyway, I've got about 32 hours into the game now and it's still pretty fun.  Vaan's a puddin' head, though which is odd since I thought he was supposed to be the main character.  
#43 Edited by Godot (208 posts) -
@dungbootle said:

" @project343 said:

" @Laketown: Been a while. Believe it was a temple guardian--guarding the entrance to a temple. I remember lots of sand, and oil platforms. Then giant firey bird. Characters were not built in such a way to handle it. Failsauced. "
I quit at the same place. I wasn't really enjoying the game up to that point, though Tim Rogers' adoration of it has made me consider going back in. Unfortunately I don't own it anymore "
Same here. I was doing quite well up to that point as well (doing a decent amount of the sidequests to boot), but the Garuda effectively demolished my team. The prospect of going back and grinding isn't exactly tempting.
 
EDIT: Although looking at a guide now, it apparently helps if you blind it. Might have to go back and have another crack at it.
#44 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@PenguinDust said:
"  Vaan's a puddin' head, though which is odd since I thought he was supposed to be the main character.   "
That was actually a last minute change. Originally, the team planned to have Basch as the main character, but apparently Square Enix didn't think that would sell and so they had the story focus around Vaan. In fact, Vaan and Penelo hadn't even been created until late into development of the game.
#45 Posted by Demyx (3237 posts) -

Blizzard is a must. Don't ever save Basch. You can't give him a weapon or armor and he does no damage. I don't like wasting phoenix downs on him. There isn't any real grinding you need to do yet to be honest. Take it slow and don't aggro large mobs. Not sure what other advice I can give. 
 
I had both Vaan and Fran learn blizzard so they could rape those guys.

#46 Posted by PenguinDust (12636 posts) -
@Juno500 said:
" @PenguinDust said:
"  Vaan's a puddin' head, though which is odd since I thought he was supposed to be the main character.   "
That was actually a last minute change. Originally, the team planned to have Basch as the main character,.... "
That makes so much more sense, and the late changes might also explain the lack of romance in the story, at least so far for me.  The very few other FF's I've played and those I haven't but am familiar with all had some sort of sentimental love story mixed in with the "save the world" plot.  I'm not complaining, but making an observation.  I like the politics of the story, though.  It's like Shakespeare meets Star Wars.  
#47 Posted by fuzzypumpkin (389 posts) -

i just fought every enemy i saw a bunch of times in the Estersand where that t-rex gentleman is and also i did a lot of those quests where you have to defeat an enemy from the board

#48 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@PenguinDust said:
" @Juno500 said:
That makes so much more sense, and the late changes might also explain the lack of romance in the story, at least so far for me.  The very few other FF's I've played and those I haven't but am familiar with all had some sort of sentimental love story mixed in with the "save the world" plot.  I'm not complaining, but making an observation.  I like the politics of the story, though.  It's like Shakespeare meets Star Wars.   "
The lack of a love story is probably less to do with the last minute changes, and more to do with the fact that the director (until he left the game due to being upset with said changes), Yasumi Matsuno, prefers different plots and settings than the guys who typically write FF stories. If you play other games that he's created, you'll notice a trend. I'm playing through the PSP remake of Tactics Ogre right now, and the story and themes are very similar to FFXII. Heavy themes of politics and rulers, Shakespearean-like dialogue, and very little focus on romance or "stop the apocalypse".

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