Final Fantasy XII

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#1 Posted by Remedy25 (131 posts) -

Final Fantasy in generally has always been close to my heart. Sitting playing Final Fantasy VII as a young boy was my first experience with an RPG. From that moment on I was hooked. I've bought ever Final Fantasy game since then, except the online games, which in my opinion isn't Final Fantasy and the games before my time. One Final Fantasy stands out in particular...Final Fantasy XII. I own, and I remember distinctively hating it and being very disappointed, granted I didn't get very far. What I'd like to know is; why it's herald as one of the greatest Final Fantasies?

"This conclusive Final Fantasy game for the PlayStation 2 is considered by many RPG fans to be a series pinnacle of storytelling, combat customisation, and graphical beauty. It sold like crazy and became the tenth best-selling PS2 game in US history." http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/game/107327/the-26-best-role-playing-games-ever/?pn=5

Metacritic score gave it a score of 92 along with Gamespot giving it a solid 9/10.

#2 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4858 posts) -

XII was terrible.

#3 Posted by Spoonman671 (4768 posts) -

Final Fantasy XII is definitely not widely considered to be one of the greatest Final Fantasy games.  Personally, I think it's better than most, and certainly better than your average Final Fantasy fan makes it out to be.  It received good reviews because it was very good.  Final Fantasy fans don't really like it because it isn't exactly the same as every previous game.  Reviewers can't hold that against the game.
 
I wouldn't take a random quote from PC Advisor too seriously.

#4 Posted by JoeBigfoot (114 posts) -

@GunslingerPanda said:

XII was terrible.

This.

#5 Edited by SmasheControllers (2553 posts) -

Really? I remember FF Fanboys hating it, I however really enjoyed what I played of it. I loved the combat, it was so different from the other FF's.

I'm no FF fan by any means, personally think that series has been creativity bankrupt for a long time.

#6 Posted by AlexW00d (6428 posts) -

People hate 12, I dunno why though, those people are idiots. 12 is the one with he best gameplay.

#7 Posted by SmasheControllers (2553 posts) -

@AlexW00d: Nice to see someone agrees.

#8 Posted by The_Great_Time_Muffin (31 posts) -

I really loved FF XII. Probably because it wasn't like the rest of them. It had a different look, a different feel and a different style of story.

#9 Posted by Turambar (6888 posts) -
@JoeBigfoot said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

XII was terrible.

This.

You're both wrong, but I forgive you.
#10 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4858 posts) -

@Turambar said:

@JoeBigfoot said:

@GunslingerPanda said:

XII was terrible.

This.

You're both wrong, but I forgive you.

No, you.

#11 Posted by Turambar (6888 posts) -
@AlexW00d said:

People hate 12, I dunno why though, those people are idiots. 12 is the one with he best gameplay.

It had a great idea, but the combat was very poorly balanced with most fights dissolving into nothing by healing spells and physical attack.  Lack of good gambits until far into the game didn't help either.  Still a pretty good game overall though.
#12 Posted by McGhee (6075 posts) -

I loved the graphics, combat and the world. But the story eventually becomes one fetch quest after another. So boring.

#13 Edited by Jay_Ray (1127 posts) -

XII is the best 3D Final Fantasy

#14 Edited by GalacticPunt (1105 posts) -

I'll try to sum it up like this: the reason that there is such positive critical consensus around FF12 is the same reason that Final Fantasy fans trash it in forums. That reason is, It is incredibly different from the rest of the series in terms of gameplay and tone.

If you are a game reviewer who has to play through just about every JRPG that gets released, FF12's combat system and quasi-Shakespearean dialogue were a breath of fresh air. If you were a FF fan who waits for each installment to scratch a specific itch, 12 can feel like a betrayal.

I had played through all the FF's when it came out, even spent 13 months in FF11. I freaking love 12, it's my second favorite in the entire series after FF6. People have different tastes and different opinions. Millions of people bought it, some people love it, some very vocal people hate it. Many of the best creations are divisive. Stanley Kubrick has many detractors, but the conventional wisdom is that his films are important.

#15 Posted by WMWA (1162 posts) -

12 is awesome. Those marks and espers ate up the entirety of my high school winter break the year it came out

#16 Posted by AP3 (44 posts) -

Spent way more time with XII than any other Final Fantasy. I really enjoyed the combat. I appreciate the fact that it was different, and I don't think the quality suffered for it at all.

#17 Posted by mracoon (4978 posts) -

I've played most of the FF games and XII is favourite (along wit IX). It was refreshing to see a change in the combat system and a move away from random encounters.

Moderator
#18 Posted by JJOR64 (19065 posts) -

12 was either a love it or hate it game.

#19 Posted by Irvandus (2878 posts) -

I enjoyed it. Wish Vaan was a better character though. I always thought he was a really weak main character surrounded by a fantastic supporting cast.

#20 Posted by zyn (2591 posts) -

@GunslingerPanda said:

XII was terrible.

#21 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -

Final Fantasy XII is a great game. And I say this as someone that hated the very idea of what the game was when it was still in development.

#22 Posted by WarlockEngineerMoreDakka (428 posts) -

Basically, many FF Fans hate FF 12 because its different from the rest of the series- while non-FF fans generally like it more often than not from what I've seen.

There are non-FF fans who don't like FF 12 as well though- and they tend to quote actual reasons:

  • Some don't like how FF 12 is effectively a single player MMO in design
  • Some feel FF 12 is heavily grindy.
  • How the game can be made to play itself
  • Vaan being a terrible character
#23 Posted by Remedy25 (131 posts) -

Hmm with this much positive response, I've considering giving it another punt once I'm finished with Final Fantasy VIII, which I'm +100 hours into and only on disk 3 of 4. Now that I'm older and hopefully more experienced in relation to video games, I might now see the appeal.

#24 Edited by Xymox (2115 posts) -

@WarlockEngineerMoreDakka said:

Basically, many FF Fans hate FF 12 because its different from the rest of the series- while non-FF fans generally like it more often than not from what I've seen.

There are non-FF fans who don't like FF 12 as well though- and they tend to quote actual reasons:

  • Some don't like how FF 12 is effectively a single player MMO in design
  • Some feel FF 12 is heavily grindy.
  • How the game can be made to play itself
  • Vaan being a terrible character

Exactly. I was a non FF fan before 12.

1. agreed, It's practically a single player MMO, which is why it was the first FF I could get into to any extent. After I got through FF12, I've gone through FFVII and currently working through FFVIII. I think FFVI has some of the best music ever, so I'll get through that one after 8.

2. I never felt the need to grind, compared to what a grindfest FF1 was.

3. the automatation features are good because most of those actions are a pain in the butt. Yes, game, I get it. Open menu and cast spell On party member. I'm done with that. Being able to set it up to do those things on it's own was wonderful, and I'd love to see a comeback to that philosophy, almost programming the AI yourself.

4. Vaan who? Oh, that guy who I never regarded as a main character and just tucked in the back and forgot about? I rolled with Basch, Penelo and the princess girl, whatever her name was. :P

PS: FF12 was the pinnacle of the FF series for two reasons, both of them catering to greatly improve game play: No random battles and no turn-based combat. Leaving you to enjoy what it's (in my opinion) about, story. And the clutter that random battles and turn-based combat is just gets in the way of that. Just how I feel about it. That's not to say the story in FF12 is the best one in the series. But it's the most accessible. And to be honest, after 12 titles, it had to be done.

Lot's of people will stab me over the internet and send me death threats for saying that but tbh, that's probably the biggest reason why people who originally couldn't get into FF actually liked FF12.

I just love how everyone has their favorite FF title. It's a shame that xHardCorex fans can't see why some of us think FF12 is a better game. :P

#25 Posted by Svenzon (727 posts) -

I think it is an awesome game and one of the three (the other two being 4 and 9) I find worth going back to. Great story, some well-written dialogue and interesting combat makes it a really good game. Looks great compared to many other PS2 titles of that time too. I just wish they'd went with the original plan and kept Basch as the primary protagonist. Vaan isn't terrible by any means, but he is too damn bland to be the main character.

#26 Posted by Kidavenger (3625 posts) -

I loved X and even liked X-2, I can't remember much about XII other than getting lost in some damn dessert for a few hours right at the start of the game and completely losing interest.

#27 Posted by Animasta (14719 posts) -

XII is great, I'm on my second playthrough in fact (I just got cuchulainn)

#28 Posted by Bakumatsu (374 posts) -

XII was not well accepted because the combat system was so different from the other FF's. That is the common reason. The main reason for me was basically this: Vaan sucks.

#29 Posted by Butano (1786 posts) -

That site listed FFVII as the greatest RPG of all time, with WoW right behind it. Yea no....

#30 Posted by Xtrememuffinman (958 posts) -

@GunslingerPanda said:

XII was terrible.

#31 Edited by Dixavd (1369 posts) -

I hate how these kinds of threads always water down to either "Final Fantasy XII is terrible" or "Final Fantasy XII is a great game" as if it must be objectively wholly one of the other. It has good parts andbad parts in it and the decision of if someone likes it or note depends completely in their tastes; it just happened to be critically acclaimed when it came out because it was one of the biggest JRPG launches ever, it was basically the swan-song for the PS2, it was drastically different so it gained quite a few review marks for being innovative, It also came out at one of the peaks of Final Fantasy popularity (spurred on the recent Trailers for Final Fantasy XIII and the rest of the Fabula Nova Crystallis titles released during E3 in the same year).

#32 Posted by Excast (1039 posts) -

I can honestly say that I liked 12, but never finished it.
 
The battle system was a refreshing change of pace and was actually a strength compared to it normally being a weakness in previous games.  Of course, it did also get a little simplistic because you could wreck most things with pure melee and the espers were kind of pointless.
 
My main issue was the story.  While I got what they were trying to do, it just didn't click with me.  It didn't help that Vaan, the main character, was basically a random dude that combined the worst character design elements from the previous games in the series.  Penelo was also just kind of tossed in to fill out the roster.
 
It also didn't help that killing things was pretty much the only thing to do int he entire game.

#33 Posted by Animasta (14719 posts) -

@Bakumatsu said:

XII was not well accepted because the combat system was so different from the other FF's. That is the common reason. The main reason for me was basically this: Vaan sucks.

Vaan barely matters once you get Ashe, Basch, and Balthier (who is the real main character, he says so)

#34 Posted by believer258 (12176 posts) -

@SmasheControllers said:

@AlexW00d: Nice to see someone agrees.

I agree. I haven't poured tons of time in it but what I've played is pretty good.

And, hell, even if the game were kind of bad I'd pull through the boring parts just to hear a lot of Balthier's lines. That is a pretty great character from what I've seen.

#35 Posted by Galiant (2195 posts) -

I had a great time with XII.

#36 Posted by EXTomar (4940 posts) -

The issue with the combat engine in FF7 wasn't that it was "accepted" but it was kind of simplistic. They stripped the classes out of the characters and put them on the "equipables" (equipment slots + materia) which offered a lot of configuration but weakened the "character crafting" found in a lot of RPGs. For better or worse, this hasn't really recovered since then for the high end RPG systems.

As written in the older "FF7 Hate" thread, FF7 was bold and experimental and way out beyond anything others were doing. Some of it does not work but that was not due to a lack of trying or effort.

#37 Posted by Genkkaku (738 posts) -

FF12 is one of my favourites of the series.. I played everyone up to that point (in retrospect im not sure if I liked 9 but played it to shit anyways) and I really likd the different take on the combat system and tge seasonal monsters.. and of coarse sky pirates..

#38 Posted by Hunter5024 (5959 posts) -

I apologize in advance for the negativity, but 12 is awful. The story was ruined by corporate meddling, the combat was boring, and with two exceptions every character in the game was completely flat.

@GalacticPunt said:

quasi-Shakespearean dialogue

That's kind of a stretch even with quasi in front of it.

@Irvandus said:

I enjoyed it. Wish Vaan was a better character though. I always thought he was a really weak main character surrounded by a fantastic supporting cast.

Yes truly Penelo and Fran will stand the test of time as Final Fantasy Great's right next to Faris, Umaro, and Edward.

@Excast said:

I can honestly say that I liked 12, but never finished it. The battle system was a refreshing change of pace and was actually a strength compared to it normally being a weakness in previous games.

I guess if you like not doing anything the combat was pretty fantastic.

#39 Posted by Nux (2419 posts) -

I never played all of FF XII but what I did play I liked. I did go back to it a while back but stopped playing it again when I forgot how to play and died to a random desert wolf.

#40 Posted by DonChipotle (2839 posts) -

Vaan was put into the game because Square wasn't sure a game without a pretty boy lead would sell, which is why the game kind of forgets about him once the actual story and characters get involved.

It was kind of like what happened with Nier.

#41 Posted by Animasta (14719 posts) -

@DonChipotle said:

Vaan was put into the game because Square wasn't sure a game without a pretty boy lead would sell, which is why the game kind of forgets about him once the actual story and characters get involved.

It was kind of like what happened with Nier.

Brother Nier is still in the game at all times though, Vaan just kinda goes away in cutscenes.

#42 Edited by DonChipotle (2839 posts) -

@Animasta said:

@DonChipotle said:

Vaan was put into the game because Square wasn't sure a game without a pretty boy lead would sell, which is why the game kind of forgets about him once the actual story and characters get involved.

It was kind of like what happened with Nier.

Brother Nier is still in the game at all times though, Vaan just kinda goes away in cutscenes.

Yes, but it was more along the lines that Father Nier was designed first and then Brother Nier was designed after the fact because of how Father Nier looks and how it doesn't really garner much attention in the Japanese market

#43 Posted by believer258 (12176 posts) -

@DonChipotle said:

@Animasta said:

@DonChipotle said:

Vaan was put into the game because Square wasn't sure a game without a pretty boy lead would sell, which is why the game kind of forgets about him once the actual story and characters get involved.

It was kind of like what happened with Nier.

Brother Nier is still in the game at all times though, Vaan just kinda goes away in cutscenes.

Yes, but it was more along the lines that Father Nier was designed first and then Brother Nier was designed after the fact because of how Father Nier looks and how it doesn't really garner much attention in the Japanese market

So flat angsty pretty boys are to the Japanese market what balding gravel-voiced 30-somethings are to the American market?

Just an observation.

#44 Posted by Hunter5024 (5959 posts) -

@believer258 said:

So flat angsty pretty boys are to the Japanese market what balding gravel-voiced 30-somethings are to the American market?

Just an observation.

That's amazing.

#45 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4858 posts) -

@Xymox said:

Being able to set it up to do those things on it's own was wonderful, and I'd love to see a comeback to that philosophy, almost programming the AI yourself.

That was awful though. It got to a point where you'd just stop and think "Wait, why the fuck am I programming the AI?"

#46 Posted by Spoonman671 (4768 posts) -
@GunslingerPanda said:

@Xymox said:

Being able to set it up to do those things on it's own was wonderful, and I'd love to see a comeback to that philosophy, almost programming the AI yourself.

That was awful though. It got to a point where you'd just stop and think "Wait, why the fuck am I programming the AI?"

At any point in any previous Final Fantasy did you never ask yourself why you have to tell your characters to cast Ice at Bombs after you've fought them a hundred times already?  The "why the fuck am I doing this?" path is a dangerous one to go down in a video game focused discussion.
#47 Posted by AuthenticM (3801 posts) -

XII is awesome.

#48 Posted by Ducksworth (662 posts) -

@DonChipotle said:

@Animasta said:

@DonChipotle said:

Vaan was put into the game because Square wasn't sure a game without a pretty boy lead would sell, which is why the game kind of forgets about him once the actual story and characters get involved.

It was kind of like what happened with Nier.

Brother Nier is still in the game at all times though, Vaan just kinda goes away in cutscenes.

Yes, but it was more along the lines that Father Nier was designed first and then Brother Nier was designed after the fact because of how Father Nier looks and how it doesn't really garner much attention in the Japanese market

If thisinterview has any credibility then Father Nier was not designed first.

#49 Posted by JackSukeru (5963 posts) -

I played a bunch of hours of that game, grinded a whole bunch even. But then, like many, many other long RPGs I've bought I sort of fell off of it and never went back.

Most I can remember now is some desert, some optional boss that was really frikking hard, which was weird because everything else had been so ridiculously easy and mostly automatic, and really not understanding the license system. Nothing was stopping me from making every character equally good at everything or giving heavy armor to spellcasters, and I never got a sense of why I should use one weapon over another.

I've sort of been thinking about Final Fantasy a lot recently though so maybe I'll dig it up out of my pile of shame and see if I can get somewhere. Eh, or maybe I'll try to finish XIII or VIII that I just got off of PSN...

#50 Posted by CaptainCody (1521 posts) -

@Irvandus said:

I enjoyed it. Wish Vaan was a better character though. I always thought he was a really weak main character surrounded by a fantastic supporting cast.

Honestly the fact that 12 didn't have a true protagonist is the reason I did not enjoy the game. Vaan blows dick, game should've followed Basch or Balthier out of the fucking gate.

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