god this game has awful writing, doesn't it

#1 Posted by I_smell (3924 posts) -

I was just lookin through some stuff, and I remembered that I hate Final Fantasy 12. The combat's good, the skill-tree stuff is good, but WHO ARE THESE CHARACTERS?

I've played a couple other Final Fantasys, and I can tell you why I like Barret Wallace, and Vivi, and Princess Garnett, but who is this?

Penelo

I can't tell you ONE THING about Penelo. I can't remember anything she said or did, any scenes she was in-- anything. I played like 50 hours of this.

She had a fit arse and was good at magic, and I gave her bombs. That's all I learned in those 50 hours.

Vaan

Vaan, again: no clue. I don't know ANYTHING about this guy. I think he wanted to be a pirate, and about 2 hours into the game: he was. These are maybe the most boring people in any game I've ever played.

Princess Ashe I remember being important to the story for some reason, and she was always miserable, so that's SOMETHING. I think she is slightly more memorable just cos I remember he being sad about things... and I remember I couldn't understand a word she was saying cos she talked shakespearian.

Obv the only people anyone remembers from this game are the pirate guy and the sexy rabbit girl. They had some chemistry, and an agenda, they argued some people, rabbit girl had this-- Incredible Hulk thing goin on in some scenes, you go to her home town in a magic invisible forest... those are some pretty fun characters.

But oh my god, who was the villain in this game? I don't even know what he looked like, I can't recall anything about a villain. At some point I met ghost aliens who gave me Summons (?) but... christ, what a complete none-story.

I do like the Final Fantasys on PS1.

Just had nothin to do, thought I'd get that off my chest.

#2 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -

The combat's good? But it's demonstrative of everything wrong with the game: how up its own ass it is. I could never really understand anything that was going on in this game. I had to look up at least 30 words to understand what was going on. That should not be the case

#3 Posted by Brendan (7806 posts) -

I didn't even care much about the story. FF12 was so fun to play and explore that it's one of my favourite Final Fantasy's. I agree that most of the characters are about as memorable as the ones in the Star Wars prequels though.

#4 Posted by KittenMitten (111 posts) -

I once heard that Basch was originally the main character, until they decided that he wouldn't sell to there audience, so in come Vaan and Penelo, who are both completely without function in the story. Other than them, I actually kinda liked where the story was going ( i never did finish the game). I enjoyed the quasi-political intrigue that took place in both XII and Tactics.

#5 Edited by chilibean_3 (1639 posts) -

Nah, the combat was pretty good.

Yeah, I agree with most of what you said. Funny, when I looked at those pictures I didn't even realize I had played that game until I started reading your post. That's kind of sad for them.

Fun game. Never finished it.

#6 Posted by RadixNegative2 (520 posts) -

This oddly makes me want to go back and finish FF12.

#7 Posted by I_smell (3924 posts) -

I didn't know what anyone was talking about either. Anime voices are bad enough, but when you also use language from a hundred years ago, and make a story about kings, queens, politics and The Empire of Morqius Ondore- and make none of the characters likable at all- I just completely zoned out. Every cutscene. I gave up tryina follow it.

And the combat's like every other Final Fantasy, but you could run around, and asign AI to people, and unlock new spells in a funny board, it was all a fun twist.

#8 Posted by Animasta (14691 posts) -

@Video_Game_King said:

The combat's good? But it's demonstrative of everything wrong with the game: how up its own ass it is. I could never really understand anything that was going on in this game. I had to look up at least 30 words to understand what was going on. That should not be the case

really? what words did you not understand? I loved the combat.

as far as the awful writing is concerned, yes two of the characters are dumb. the other 4 are all pretty well written, especially for final fantasy (I liked that Ashe instead of waiting for political mumbo jumbo was like NO IM FUCKING GETTING MY COUNTRY BACK BY REBELLING FUCK YOU WHOEVER THE NATION TO THE NORTH WAS)

#9 Edited by Melvargh (494 posts) -

@I_smell said:

I didn't know what anyone was talking about either. Anime voices are bad enough, but when you also use language from a hundred years ago, and make a story about kings, queens, politics and The Empire of Morqius Ondore- and make none of the characters likable at all- I just completely zoned out. Every cutscene. I gave up tryina follow it.

And the combat's like every other Final Fantasy, but you could run around, and asign AI to people, and unlock new spells in a funny board, it was all a fun twist.

XII is my favourite FInal Fantasy, but I'll give you this: I can't remember a damn thing about Penelo or Vaan either. However, they were never the focus of the story. I think people had a hard time playing as a character that wasn't the central focus. Same thing with no standard "evil villain" to fight, even though it still had to throw a token boss fight at the end which was kind of ridiculous.

I love the less personal scale of XII, and immensely enjoyed the grand political opera they brought forth. The focus on the motivations of the countries and the war, and pretty much everything about XII made me love it. Not to mention the awesome battle system and gigantic world to explore.

The focus of the story wasn't your cup of tea, but that doesn't mean the writing is bad. 5 years on, I still think about the story and world of XII.

#10 Posted by Hailinel (24724 posts) -

The writing is good. The story just isn't character-centric. It's more focused on the world and the conflict around the characters.

Online
#11 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
@Laketown
 
I'm not going back to GameSpot to dig that shit up, but I do remember that when I looked up one word, the dictionary called it archaic. EVEN THE DICTIONARY TOLD ME THAT NOBODY USED THAT WORD.
#12 Posted by RadixNegative2 (520 posts) -

@I_smell said:

I didn't know what anyone was talking about either. Anime voices are bad enough, but when you also use language from a hundred years ago, and make a story about kings, queens, politics and The Empire of Morqius Ondore- and make none of the characters likable at all- I just completely zoned out. Every cutscene. I gave up tryina follow it.

And the combat's like every other Final Fantasy, but you could run around, and asign AI to people, and unlock new spells in a funny board, it was all a fun twist.

Oh god I forgot how weird the voices sounded. There's something really off with the voice capture or compression or something.

#13 Edited by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

Those 2 Vaan and Penelo do look sexually ambiguous

#14 Posted by RockinKemosabe (619 posts) -

Point and case.

#15 Posted by RE_Player1 (7560 posts) -

I hope they put this out on PSN now that they are doing PS2 games, one of the Final Fantasy games I've missed.

#16 Posted by I_smell (3924 posts) -

@ashkanhoss29 said:

This oddly makes me want to go back and finish FF12.

Don't. I tried to get back into it, and I was up to this part that was a dungeon of corridors that all looked the same for at least an hour, and the boss at the end was just me healing and attacking like mad.

Then right after that it was another dungeon that was a maze that looped back into itself forever. Took me hours n hours, the enemies just got harder n harder til I quit. It was horrible.

#17 Posted by I_smell (3924 posts) -

@RockinKemosabe said:

Point and case.

This is set up as a tender moment, but for the first 20 seconds the characters sound like they are literally being sick :(

#18 Posted by Jay444111 (2441 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

The writing is good. The story just isn't character-centric. It's more focused on the world and the conflict around the characters.

This is true, but... IMO I don't think it's AS good as other FF's because it does things so differently... Hell... (looks around making sure no trolls surface.) FF13 has better characters then 12. FAR better IMO.

Also... where does your avatar come from? I'm curious.

#19 Posted by Melvargh (494 posts) -

@I_smell said:

@ashkanhoss29 said:

This oddly makes me want to go back and finish FF12.

Don't. I tried to get back into it, and I was up to this part that was a dungeon of corridors that all looked the same for at least an hour, and the boss at the end was just me healing and attacking like mad.

Then right after that it was another dungeon that was a maze that looped back into itself forever. Took me hours n hours, the enemies just got harder n harder til I quit. It was horrible.

The Crystal? Yeah that was awful all around. I don't know how I dealt with it without raging.

#20 Posted by Animasta (14691 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@Hailinel said:

The writing is good. The story just isn't character-centric. It's more focused on the world and the conflict around the characters.

This is true, but... IMO I don't think it's AS good as other FF's because it does things so differently... Hell... (looks around making sure no trolls surface.) FF13 has better characters then 12. FAR better IMO.

Also... where does your avatar come from? I'm curious.

I would much rather have 6 Vaan's than have a single Hope.

at least with Vaan you have the FF12's best line, "I'M CAPTAIN BASCH VON RONSENBERG OF DALMASCA"

#21 Posted by Melvargh (494 posts) -

@Laketown said:

@Jay444111 said:

@Hailinel said:

The writing is good. The story just isn't character-centric. It's more focused on the world and the conflict around the characters.

This is true, but... IMO I don't think it's AS good as other FF's because it does things so differently... Hell... (looks around making sure no trolls surface.) FF13 has better characters then 12. FAR better IMO.

Also... where does your avatar come from? I'm curious.

I would much rather have 6 Vaan's than have a single Hope.

at least with Vaan you have the FF12's best line, "I'M CAPTAIN BASCH VON RONSENBERG OF DALMASCA"

#22 Posted by Hailinel (24724 posts) -

@Jay444111 said:

@Hailinel said:

The writing is good. The story just isn't character-centric. It's more focused on the world and the conflict around the characters.

This is true, but... IMO I don't think it's AS good as other FF's because it does things so differently... Hell... (looks around making sure no trolls surface.) FF13 has better characters then 12. FAR better IMO.

Also... where does your avatar come from? I'm curious.

I felt that FFXIII had better characters than XII as well. I wouldn't necessarily call FFXII worse than other games in the series because it's so different, though.

My avatar is something I found online of the character Ginchiyo Tachibana from the Samurai Warriors series.

Online
#23 Posted by IBurningStar (2172 posts) -

Fun fact: Vossler was voiced by none other than the great Nolan North.

#24 Posted by I_smell (3924 posts) -

@Melvargh said:

@I_smell said:

@ashkanhoss29 said:

This oddly makes me want to go back and finish FF12.

Don't. I tried to get back into it, and I was up to this part that was a dungeon of corridors that all looked the same for at least an hour, and the boss at the end was just me healing and attacking like mad.

Then right after that it was another dungeon that was a maze that looped back into itself forever. Took me hours n hours, the enemies just got harder n harder til I quit. It was horrible.

The Crystal? Yeah that was awful all around. I don't know how I dealt with it without raging.

YES the crystal! Oh my god. The art is literally just jpegs of fractal art placed in as the floor, for about 3 hours on an infinite road.

Just keep walking, just keep walking, just keep walking, just keep walking, just keep walking, just keep walking, just keep walking

Every time I got to the end I was praying for it to PLEASE BE THE LAST ROOM, and it never was. I went through a door and the whole thing'd refresh. Then the enemies started getting harder, it was like being in Final Fantasy hell.

I actually did get to the end, and it was a cutscene that I didn't understand.

#25 Posted by Meowshi (2911 posts) -

No, this is the best Final Fantasy out of them all in terms of writing. Sorry you can't tell, bro!

#26 Posted by BoG (5188 posts) -

I enjoyed XII. It wastough to follow, and Vaan and Penelo were lame, but I enjoyed the story and cast in spite of all these things.

They just don't make Final Fantasy like they used to. I think the greatest thing for the series would be something akin to FFIX. I would buy a symbolic 15 copies.

#27 Edited by I_smell (3924 posts) -

@BoG said:

I enjoyed XII. It wastough to follow, and Vaan and Penelo were lame, but I enjoyed the story and cast in spite of all these things.

They just don't make Final Fantasy like they used to. I think the greatest thing for the series would be something akin to FFIX. I would buy a symbolic 15 copies.

I was thinking yesterday I want a new PS1 Final Fantasy that's just about a cast of misfits rollin through fantasy towns and goofin around... I guess I really just want a game where you can walk up to anyone and start a game of Tetra Master though...

What d'you mean by they don't make Final Fnatasy like they used to? I've not played 13. It seems to be melodramatic and hollow now, I don't know if that's what you mean.

#28 Posted by BoG (5188 posts) -

@I_smell said:

@BoG said:

I enjoyed XII. It wastough to follow, and Vaan and Penelo were lame, but I enjoyed the story and cast in spite of all these things.

They just don't make Final Fantasy like they used to. I think the greatest thing for the series would be something akin to FFIX. I would buy a symbolic 15 copies.

I was thinking yesterday I want a new PS1 Final Fantasy that's just about a cast of misfits rollin through fantasy towns.

What d'you mean by they don't make Final Fnatasy like they used to? I've not played 13. It seems to be melodramatic and hollow now, I don't know if that's what you mean.

I still need to play FFXIII myself, but I've seen plenty. XII and XIII... it's hard to pinpoint exactly what I mean, but they simply have a different mood.XII is very apparent to me, as I've played it. It belongs in the Vagrant Story universe. I'm really trying to express my ideas... maybe it's not Final Fantasy, just me. I don't know =(

#29 Posted by Hailinel (24724 posts) -

@BoG said:

@I_smell said:

@BoG said:

I enjoyed XII. It wastough to follow, and Vaan and Penelo were lame, but I enjoyed the story and cast in spite of all these things.

They just don't make Final Fantasy like they used to. I think the greatest thing for the series would be something akin to FFIX. I would buy a symbolic 15 copies.

I was thinking yesterday I want a new PS1 Final Fantasy that's just about a cast of misfits rollin through fantasy towns.

What d'you mean by they don't make Final Fnatasy like they used to? I've not played 13. It seems to be melodramatic and hollow now, I don't know if that's what you mean.

I still need to play FFXIII myself, but I've seen plenty. XII and XIII... it's hard to pinpoint exactly what I mean, but they simply have a different mood.XII is very apparent to me, as I've played it. It belongs in the Vagrant Story universe. I'm really trying to express my ideas... maybe it's not Final Fantasy, just me. I don't know =(

Then that's appropriate, because FFXII and Vagrant Story both take place in Ivalice.

Online
#30 Posted by BoG (5188 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@BoG said:

@I_smell said:

@BoG said:

I enjoyed XII. It wastough to follow, and Vaan and Penelo were lame, but I enjoyed the story and cast in spite of all these things.

They just don't make Final Fantasy like they used to. I think the greatest thing for the series would be something akin to FFIX. I would buy a symbolic 15 copies.

I was thinking yesterday I want a new PS1 Final Fantasy that's just about a cast of misfits rollin through fantasy towns.

What d'you mean by they don't make Final Fnatasy like they used to? I've not played 13. It seems to be melodramatic and hollow now, I don't know if that's what you mean.

I still need to play FFXIII myself, but I've seen plenty. XII and XIII... it's hard to pinpoint exactly what I mean, but they simply have a different mood.XII is very apparent to me, as I've played it. It belongs in the Vagrant Story universe. I'm really trying to express my ideas... maybe it's not Final Fantasy, just me. I don't know =(

Then that's appropriate, because FFXII and Vagrant Story both take place in Ivalice.

Yes, I know. As do the Tactics games. They're also all developed by the same team, I believe.

#31 Posted by Dauragon (554 posts) -

I personally loved the story and writing in this game. It was almost like a primer on pre WWI European history which is really risky and unorthodox for a JRPG (or at least a very popular one). It felt very refreshing to me to have this kind of story that was more focused on the overall conflict instead of just one plucky hero who ends up being THE CHOSEN ONE who has the POWER to wield the ONE TRUE WEAPON to destroy THE ONE TRUE EVIL (also guess what, the evil is his DAD!!! *dum dum DAAHHHH*).

But that's just me! I'm kind of a history nerd so the story definitely spoke to me more than someone who isn't into political intrigue as much as I am.

Also Balthier and Fran were basically Han Solo and Chewbacca and there's like no way to fuck that up. No way at all.

#32 Posted by I_smell (3924 posts) -

@Dauragon said:

I personally loved the story and writing in this game. It was almost like a primer on pre WWI European history which is really risky and unorthodox for a JRPG (or at least a very popular one). It felt very refreshing to me to have this kind of story that was more focused on the overall conflict instead of just one plucky hero who ends up being THE CHOSEN ONE who has the POWER to wield the ONE TRUE WEAPON to destroy THE ONE TRUE EVIL (also guess what, the evil is his DAD!!! *dum dum DAAHHHH*).

For the record: I also think that is dumb. There's some of that in 12, and a lot of it in 7, 8 and 9.

I don't think these guys are ever gonna make a game where you're not secretly the son of god. I'd LIKE to see a game about a group of regular adventurers, but I guess you have to have a reason for all the boss fights and crazy summons n whatnot.

#33 Posted by JackSukeru (5911 posts) -

I just could never wrap my head around the License grid, where was the balance? I made one guy use guns and focus on healing and another one use katanas, but could never figure out any particular distinction between the weapons, or any reason to use one weapon over the other depending on what you focused on in terms of magic, skills etc. Eventually the bunny girl, who I had dictated would be the black mage, was as good a healer as the white mage.

I didn't finish the game so...was there ever a point where you could expand the license grid or was everyone's grid the same for everyone forever?

#34 Edited by I_smell (3924 posts) -

Well you could define people to use arrow-weapons and then they could hit flying enemies, or you could define people to use hammers and that'd have mad crits. I think katanas would poison people a lot or something (?)

Then you could expand people's spells out into the part of the grid that was all time-magic, or the part of the grid that was all status-effects magic. The best armor was on the opposite end of the board, so you can't do both those things. It made it really cool when you found "Haste" cos then it's like OH, I better expand downwards if I want Slow, Stop and all that other time-shit.

Eventually you'd come across tiles that were "unlock this character's Special" or "Equip this Summon". So it cost more points to expand out further and find unique stuff by sticking to one track and being less of an all-rounder.

One problem I did have with all this stuff is that there was a lot of fluff. Poison, Bio, Toxic, Bleed and Drain are all the same fucking spell at the end of the day and that was annoying. But yeah, once you got to the point where all your characters were at opposite corners of the board, then things got cool.

#35 Posted by chrissedoff (2096 posts) -

yeah dude it's final fantasy

#36 Edited by I_smell (3924 posts) -

@chrissedoff said:

yeah dude it's final fantasy

I'm not even a fan of Final Fantasy, but there's usually a couple scenes, and locations, and music that I can point to and say "this is what I came to this game for, and this part is pretty great".

FF12 stands out because there is no fun part.

In FF9 this is pretty goofy, and in FF7 this is fun, but FF12 is just this all the goddamn way from start to finish and it never picks up.

#37 Posted by Toms115 (2316 posts) -

@KittenMitten said:

I once heard that Basch was originally the main character, until they decided that he wouldn't sell to there audience, so in come Vaan and Penelo, who are both completely without function in the story. Other than them, I actually kinda liked where the story was going ( i never did finish the game). I enjoyed the quasi-political intrigue that took place in both XII and Tactics.

pretty sure that's what went down. pretty sucky thing to do to your game.

#38 Edited by Meowshi (2911 posts) -

@Dauragon said:

I personally loved the story and writing in this game. It was almost like a primer on pre WWI European history which is really risky and unorthodox for a JRPG (or at least a very popular one). It felt very refreshing to me to have this kind of story that was more focused on the overall conflict instead of just one plucky hero who ends up being THE CHOSEN ONE who has the POWER to wield the ONE TRUE WEAPON to destroy THE ONE TRUE EVIL (also guess what, the evil is his DAD!!! *dum dum DAAHHHH*).

But that's just me! I'm kind of a history nerd so the story definitely spoke to me more than someone who isn't into political intrigue as much as I am.

Also Balthier and Fran were basically Han Solo and Chewbacca and there's like no way to fuck that up. No way at all.

The parallels between Star Wars and FFXII go way beyond that.

#39 Edited by Cornman89 (1579 posts) -
@RockmanBionics said:

I just could never wrap my head around the License grid, where was the balance? I made one guy use guns and focus on healing and another one use katanas, but could never figure out any particular distinction between the weapons, or any reason to use one weapon over the other depending on what you focused on in terms of magic, skills etc. Eventually the bunny girl, who I had dictated would be the black mage, was as good a healer as the white mage.

I didn't finish the game so...was there ever a point where you could expand the license grid or was everyone's grid the same for everyone forever?

No, you didn't miss anything. The License Grid is a mess the whole way through. No structure, balance or direction ever emerges.
 

@Dauragon

said:

I personally loved the story and writing in this game. It was almost like a primer on pre WWI European history which is really risky and unorthodox for a JRPG (or at least a very popular one). It felt very refreshing to me to have this kind of story that was more focused on the overall conflict instead of just one plucky hero who ends up being THE CHOSEN ONE who has the POWER to wield the ONE TRUE WEAPON to destroy THE ONE TRUE EVIL (also guess what, the evil is his DAD!!! *dum dum DAAHHHH*).

But that's just me! I'm kind of a history nerd so the story definitely spoke to me more than someone who isn't into political intrigue as much as I am.

Also Balthier and Fran were basically Han Solo and Chewbacca and there's like no way to fuck that up. No way at all.

See, I would agree with you for maybe the first 2/3 of the game. But, like Final Fantasy Tactics before it, FFXII eventually falls into the common JRPG pitfall of reducing a fairly complex political drama into a cartoonish battle against gods, demons, Zodiac Stones, rogue Occuria, whatever. I haven't played Vagrant Story, but I wouldn't be surprised if all Ivalice Alliance games fucked up in precisely this way.
 
Ashe is the "chosen one," the Treaty-Blade is the "one true weapon," and Vayne is the "one true evil" once he absorbs the rogue god and turns into a mechanical space dragon.
#40 Posted by thechronodarkness (294 posts) -

I am wolverine after all. *Sniff sniff* I smell ff12 fanboys approaching. Well, you see, heres the thing. The gameplay itself would be great, but 1/3rd the way through the game *like at the tomb of raithwall*, it almost forces you to grind certain parts more than ff 4-10. I refuse to spend 2-4 hours grinding every little part for 2-3 extra levels. Oblivion, ff10, and others have taught us that its pointless. As for the story? It gets interesting at parts, but overall when the games finished, you don't feel satisfied. There isn't some huge crazy boss, or epic endgame.

Graphically, yes, its easily a few steps down from ff10. But its not, god awful either. What is absolutely god awful to the point to where I can barely play the game, is how BADLY compressed all the voices are. Hell, didn't that game have a thx approved sign on the back? During the pre-rendered cutscenes, its fine. But any of the in-game dialog sounds like its in a jug of milk trying to talk. Tried headphones, and my 1200watt kenwood system sounds all the same. I'm sure tv speakers are fine though.

#41 Posted by Meowshi (2911 posts) -

I never needed to grind against regular enemies. It was actually a fairly easy game because everyone could do everything.

#42 Posted by gorkamorkaorka (442 posts) -

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