So Like Final Fantasy XIII-2 The Ending... *SPOILER*

#1 Posted by ShinjiEx (624 posts) -

Was pretty much a big fuck you! 
to all the people who bitch & moaned about Final Fantasy XIII
 
And I love it! 
there like oh yea everything is okay happy ending... then BOOM! shit gets dark like they fused 2 ending together!
 
I'm sure you've read by now The "To Be Continued" was a gimmick to encourage players to go back and play The Paradox Endings and NO there is not going to be a "XIII-3"
instead there will be DLC episodes starting with Sazh then Snow 
and then finally a massif Lightning episode "to tie up loose ends"

#2 Posted by RainVillain (480 posts) -

Yeah I was baffled by the uproar on the ending.. I thought it was one of the better FF endings. Loved how dark it got! That said, I still don't see XIII-3 as being out of the cards, even with thorough DLC. But we'll see.

#3 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

Do the paradox ending really explain much? Do you recommend seeing them?

#4 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@ImmortalSaiyan said:

Do the paradox ending really explain much? Do you recommend seeing them?

All of the paradox endings are simply "what if" scenarios, some are comical, some are wtf?!, some are intriguing, and a couple are lame... but none of them flesh out the main plot anymore. There is a secret ending, as well, but it's pretty much worthless. 
 
That aside, I am still in the camp we'll get a 13-3 (especially since they already own the domain and all) but we'll see. Sazh DLC is next week I believe which is also the card game DLC (they are combined together, basically the Sazh story DLC IS the card game DLC) which is as suspected will simply fill in everything he was doing through the game and takes places in serendipity.
#5 Posted by PixelPrinny (1030 posts) -

Really not sure how XIII-2's ending was a big "fuck you" to people that bitched and moaned about the first one. I really liked the first one and didn't like 2's ending at all.

A dark ending does not immediately make for a good ending. You can have a bittersweet ending just fine provided it's actually, y'know, an ending and not a cliffhanger that answers none of the questions the game raised. In fact the ending poses so many more questions it makes the idea of DLC solving everything seem like a pipedream.

Unless, of course, they just go, "Don't worry, all you have to do is download this one boss fight and then the true ending will pull another deus ex machina out of its ass and act like none of this ever happened and everyone will live happily ever after." Or perhaps their plan is to have $60+ worth of DLC and milk people who still care about the game for all they're worth without having to actually make a sequel.

#6 Posted by thecornmaster (1 posts) -

I'm new to this, but in my opinion they simply sold you a game at full price that wasnt finished and now they want you to buy the ending. Seperatly. Which is very sad and if it works for them this time they will probably keep doing it for the next games. Still loved both games but if i'm right its a pretty big rip off in my opinion.

#7 Posted by kerse (2110 posts) -

Did it not sell well enough for a 13-3 and now they're just gonna finish it with dlc?

#8 Posted by Elazul (1327 posts) -

Yeah, that ending was fantastic. I really wasn't feeling the game at all through about the last 3-4 hours, and really the only reason I even finished it was because I wanted to finish out my backlog before I got into Mass Effect 3. But man, the moment that fucking moogle dropped dead made it all worth it.

#9 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -

@kerse said:

Did it not sell well enough for a 13-3 and now they're just gonna finish it with dlc?

Who knows. We don't know how much the game cost to make but just from playing it you can tell the budget was not big (removal of third character model for main characters being the most evident) so it's a good guess they are making money on the game but we'll never know for sure unless they tell us.

The only thing we know for sure is the first shipment to Japan was 800,000 and they sold through over 700,000 of that so they basically met that expectation. Can't really speak for the rest of the world outside of knowing it came in second in North America (below MW3) and first in the UK and in those places we don't know exact numbers.

#10 Posted by makari (597 posts) -

@thecornmaster said:

I'm new to this, but in my opinion they simply sold you a game at full price that wasnt finished and now they want you to buy the ending. Seperatly. Which is very sad and if it works for them this time they will probably keep doing it for the next games. Still loved both games but if i'm right its a pretty big rip off in my opinion.

There are many endings to 13-2, and the first you see is pretty dark. You can reach additional endings by going to points in the story and the game allows you to do things differently based around the fact that you know how things turn out in the main plotline (as you're essentially going back in time to change the way things went to come to a different conclusion). It's kind of a clever way of of doing multiple endings. When you see all the possible 'what if' scenarios, you unlock a final monologue by the main villain that's all

'no, the first ending is the canon one, deal with it.'

What some of the 'what if' endings do is allow for dlc that follows those threads and can tell a different story altogether from the main storyline, which is what you'd want ideally. Not that a 'buy the real ending' situation could still be on the cards. Personally I feel the ending was amazing but the setting of the game can allow them to follow different threads that I'd be interested in seeing.

#11 Posted by GunslingerPanda (4686 posts) -
@kerse said:

Did it not sell well enough for a 13-3 and now they're just gonna finish it with dlc?

Where are people getting the idea that there won't be a 13-3 from? The ending was pretty much "HAI GUISE THERES TOTES GONNA BE A SEQUEL"
#12 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -

@GunslingerPanda said:

@kerse said:

Did it not sell well enough for a 13-3 and now they're just gonna finish it with dlc?

Where are people getting the idea that there won't be a 13-3 from? The ending was pretty much "HAI GUISE THERES TOTES GONNA BE A SEQUEL"

Some people from the start seem to think that they are going to make the ending DLC even though that was never hinted at or mentioned ever by SE. It's obviously not outside the realm of possibility but it's also never been mentioned, if anything given the fact the Lightning DLC releasing in May is going to just be more stuff before the ending it seems like a sequel is inevitable.

#13 Posted by brehonia (51 posts) -

@PixelPrinny said:

Really not sure how XIII-2's ending was a big "fuck you" to people that bitched and moaned about the first one. I really liked the first one and didn't like 2's ending at all.

A dark ending does not immediately make for a good ending.

It's not really about it being dark, it's about it being a huge, ballsy swerve away from what turned a lot of people off before.

The other game (fantasy the first, thirteenth and final) built up this whole impossible scenario where the party struggles to defy their fate, then in the end they just bring down Cocoon like they were told and catch it with magic and the power of love. I didn't hate it myself, but it was a little disappointing how neat and pat it was.

This game seemed like it was doing the same thing, ignoring all the stuff about Lightning and the heart of chaos and everything going back to where it should be, I guess it was all overcome by faith in the goddess or the power of the human spirit or some crap like that?? No it's actually an incredible fake-out - the impossible situation really was impossible, now Caius has won and everything is boned. It's not cool just because it's grim; it's cool because it's shockingly grim, and consistent with the rest of the story.

#14 Edited by PixelPrinny (1030 posts) -

@brehonia said:

@PixelPrinny said:

Really not sure how XIII-2's ending was a big "fuck you" to people that bitched and moaned about the first one. I really liked the first one and didn't like 2's ending at all.

A dark ending does not immediately make for a good ending.

It's not really about it being dark, it's about it being a huge, ballsy swerve away from what turned a lot of people off before.

The other game (fantasy the first, thirteenth and final) built up this whole impossible scenario where the party struggles to defy their fate, then in the end they just bring down Cocoon like they were told and catch it with magic and the power of love. I didn't hate it myself, but it was a little disappointing how neat and pat it was.

This game seemed like it was doing the same thing, ignoring all the stuff about Lightning and the heart of chaos and everything going back to where it should be, I guess it was all overcome by faith in the goddess or the power of the human spirit or some crap like that?? No it's actually an incredible fake-out - the impossible situation really was impossible, now Caius has won and everything is boned. It's not cool just because it's grim; it's cool because it's shockingly grim, and consistent with the rest of the story.

Except for, yknow, Caius could have just won from the very start by stabbing himself in the heart and ending it. And he certainly wasn't averse to suicide, as that's how the whole thing ends anyways with him forcing Noel to kill him (not to mention killing the goddess supposedly would have screwed him over regardless, but he just wanted the cycle to end so he and whats her face could find peace). But he decided not to do that and draw you out on a long, pointless quest, why exactly? If something stopped him from doing it himself, why didn't he just let Lightning win?

No, the ending wasn't cool; It was a stupid, contrived piece of shit that's only reason for existing is so they can sell you a "true ending" in the form of DLC or a sequel (which they deny atm, but business is business so we'll see). But i if you enjoy empty stories that are nothing more than, as you said -- an incredible fake-out -- where the characters are doomed from the start and the entire journey is absolutely pointless, well, all the power to you. Personally, I always hate stories that end with "Let's reset everything so you don't remember any of it happened!" or "Yay, everyone's dead and this was pointless. The end!" In video games, it's especially silly, as it's the equivalent of basically making a story out of a random game over. Like "Hey, you lost to Lavos and got the end where he destroys the world. Guess what? That's the true ending! Thanks for playing! Roll credits!" OMG it's shockingly grim they would end the game like that! How avant-garde!

But let's not kid ourselves -- that's not even what's going on here. There's going to be a "true" ending through DLC or another game. Maybe Serah will stay dead, Lightning will remain stuck in Valhalla, Noel will cease to exist because his timeline is gone, and everyone will be forced to rebuild their destroyed cities. (Had that been the ending, I'd be totally content with it because at least it's an ending). But more than likely it'll involve another contrived scenario where they'll defeat the bad guy, save the day, and the timeline will magically reset back to before Lightning was kidnapped and they all live happily ever after.

#15 Posted by TentPole (1858 posts) -

Disliked everything in XIII but the combat and a few of the characters. Loved everything in XII-2 including the ending.

#16 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5813 posts) -

The ending was the worst part of the game  
 
I was expecting to see some closure between Serah and the rest of the characters but instead it was just: you're dead lol bai.

#17 Posted by vidiot (2737 posts) -
@PixelPrinny said:

@brehonia said:

@PixelPrinny said:

Really not sure how XIII-2's ending was a big "fuck you" to people that bitched and moaned about the first one. I really liked the first one and didn't like 2's ending at all.

A dark ending does not immediately make for a good ending.

It's not really about it being dark, it's about it being a huge, ballsy swerve away from what turned a lot of people off before.

The other game (fantasy the first, thirteenth and final) built up this whole impossible scenario where the party struggles to defy their fate, then in the end they just bring down Cocoon like they were told and catch it with magic and the power of love. I didn't hate it myself, but it was a little disappointing how neat and pat it was.

This game seemed like it was doing the same thing, ignoring all the stuff about Lightning and the heart of chaos and everything going back to where it should be, I guess it was all overcome by faith in the goddess or the power of the human spirit or some crap like that?? No it's actually an incredible fake-out - the impossible situation really was impossible, now Caius has won and everything is boned. It's not cool just because it's grim; it's cool because it's shockingly grim, and consistent with the rest of the story.

Except for, yknow, Caius could have just won from the very start by stabbing himself in the heart and ending it. And he certainly wasn't averse to suicide, as that's how the whole thing ends anyways with him forcing Noel to kill him (not to mention killing the goddess supposedly would have screwed him over regardless, but he just wanted the cycle to end so he and whats her face could find peace). But he decided not to do that and draw you out on a long, pointless quest, why exactly? If something stopped him from doing it himself, why didn't he just let Lightning win?

No, the ending wasn't cool; It was a stupid, contrived piece of shit that's only reason for existing is so they can sell you a "true ending" in the form of DLC or a sequel (which they deny atm, but business is business so we'll see). But i if you enjoy empty stories that are nothing more than, as you said -- an incredible fake-out -- where the characters are doomed from the start and the entire journey is absolutely pointless, well, all the power to you. Personally, I always hate stories that end with "Let's reset everything so you don't remember any of it happened!" or "Yay, everyone's dead and this was pointless. The end!" In video games, it's especially silly, as it's the equivalent of basically making a story out of a random game over. Like "Hey, you lost to Lavos and got the end where he destroys the world. Guess what? That's the true ending! Thanks for playing! Roll credits!" OMG it's shockingly grim they would end the game like that! How avant-garde!

But let's not kid ourselves -- that's not even what's going on here. There's going to be a "true" ending through DLC or another game. Maybe Serah will stay dead, Lightning will remain stuck in Valhalla, Noel will cease to exist because his timeline is gone, and everyone will be forced to rebuild their destroyed cities. (Had that been the ending, I'd be totally content with it because at least it's an ending). But more than likely it'll involve another contrived scenario where they'll defeat the bad guy, save the day, and the timeline will magically reset back to before Lightning was kidnapped and they all live happily ever after.

YES. The issue that the ending renders the entire game completely meaningless.   

You bring up Chrono Trigger, I raise you the original Final Fantasy: Except not only will your efforts to save the world will never be known, but you didn't save or accomplish shit.
There's really no point for anything in the adventure to happen, everything is completely doomed from the outset and the cycle seems completely unbreakable unless there was some-sort of Deus Ex Machina, which knowing XIII's world, is sadly completely possible due to the mythology being completely nonsensical and devoid of any structure, logic, or context.  

Seriously, trying to follow the inner-workings and rules to XIII-2's time-travel was so poor it felt the writers gave up and just decided "Paradox's do everything". The main plot was easy enough to follow, but everything regarding the goddess Etro, the mechanics of what Valhalla was, why Chaos is even there in the first place, why it's in Caius's heart... 
 
This is the same series that made Sci-Fi Buddhism, with a villain that had mythology similar to an evil Jesusunderstandable and fun. When it comes down to basic story-telling, Motomu Toriyama is still a horrible director. It's like all the puzzle pieces are in place for something really neat, but the person playing the game couldn't finish a connect-the-dots picture. 
Oh, and I'm sorry Toriyama, but no, you are going to make a Final Fantasy XIII-3: Because nothing in any medium anywhere ends with a "To Be Continued", and the proceeds to not continue with a final chapter. Don't try and "explain" what a simple statement should be interpreted, everything you've said in the last four years in public has been wrong. 
 
At least the game was fun to play. Still needs more non-dungeon locations though, but it was a good step in the right direction.
#18 Edited by brehonia (51 posts) -

@PixelPrinny said:

Except for, yknow, Caius could have just won from the very start by stabbing himself in the heart and ending it. And he certainly wasn't averse to suicide, as that's how the whole thing ends anyways with him forcing Noel to kill him (not to mention killing the goddess supposedly would have screwed him over regardless, but he just wanted the cycle to end so he and whats her face could find peace). But he decided not to do that and draw you out on a long, pointless quest, why exactly? If something stopped him from doing it himself, why didn't he just let Lightning win?

No, the ending wasn't cool; It was a stupid, contrived piece of shit that's only reason for existing is so they can sell you a "true ending" in the form of DLC or a sequel (which they deny atm, but business is business so we'll see). But i if you enjoy empty stories that are nothing more than, as you said -- an incredible fake-out -- where the characters are doomed from the start and the entire journey is absolutely pointless, well, all the power to you. Personally, I always hate stories that end with "Let's reset everything so you don't remember any of it happened!" or "Yay, everyone's dead and this was pointless. The end!" In video games, it's especially silly, as it's the equivalent of basically making a story out of a random game over. Like "Hey, you lost to Lavos and got the end where he destroys the world. Guess what? That's the true ending! Thanks for playing! Roll credits!" OMG it's shockingly grim they would end the game like that! How avant-garde!

But let's not kid ourselves -- that's not even what's going on here. There's going to be a "true" ending through DLC or another game. Maybe Serah will stay dead, Lightning will remain stuck in Valhalla, Noel will cease to exist because his timeline is gone, and everyone will be forced to rebuild their destroyed cities. (Had that been the ending, I'd be totally content with it because at least it's an ending). But more than likely it'll involve another contrived scenario where they'll defeat the bad guy, save the day, and the timeline will magically reset back to before Lightning was kidnapped and they all live happily ever after.

I recognise all these flaws and enjoyed it anyway. It helps that most of what you brought up was already apparent 30 hours prior to the ending (eg, why doesn't he just kill himself), so I had a chance to get over it, and it also helps that the bar was set so low that just having it raise an honest real-life reaction was refreshing (even if the reaction was "WHAT THE FUCK").

Final Fantasy Thirteen Two isn't high literature by any stretch of the imagination, but at a point where I was expecting to have been strung along for the sake of cheap drama, where I was totally ready for the story to just undo itself because there wasn't any content left on the disc, it actually did something different. That's why it's a "fuck you" to critics of the previous game (where all these bad expectations originated) and why I think it's worthy of a little respect, even though the face of it pretty much sucks.

You're right that wrapping it up in DLC would be beyond terrible. I'd be ok with another full sequel though.

** Edit: basically what I'm saying is I hated all the characters and was glad to see them doomed. :) **

#19 Posted by Animasta (14667 posts) -

I liked the ending in 13-2 because the hopelessness of it was super refreshing

#20 Posted by drac96 (668 posts) -

I'm going to have to disagree. The only good part about the ending was when Serah died.

The DLC doesn't seem like it's going to clear up a whole lot, unless the Lightning DLC is vastly different than the Sazh DLC. Playing cards isn't exactly what I'd call wrapping up loose ends.

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