2FinalFantasyXIII?

#1 Edited by Belonpopo (1823 posts) -

    After listening to the Podcast the other day Brad was rippin' on FFXIII, mostly the combat system and the linear world. I just read some reviews of FFXIII and they said (they being Gameinformer and a majority of amateur reviews) that these two features are the most enjoyable features of FFXIII, I slightly remember something like this happening a few moons back. Let's not bring Kevin Pereira back into this.

#2 Edited by Marz (5642 posts) -

I don't hate the combat system, just kind of sucks that you can only control one character at a time, so you can't specify which buffs and spells you want them to cast at certain times.

#3 Posted by Skytylz (4029 posts) -

I've played it and I didn't think the combat system was very good.

#4 Edited by Nekrosis (58 posts) -
@Belonpopo:Can you please fix your grammar, i could not comprehend that whatsoever 
#5 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -
@Nekrosis said:
" @Belonpopo:Can you please fix you grammar, i could not comprehend that whatsoever  "
He is asking if people liked the combat system.
#6 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

Man, you know what this is? this game is a faster paced persona 3

#7 Edited by xyzygy (9891 posts) -

I love the combat. Not once in my entire 53 hours of playing have I been let down by any healers, buffers, sentinels, anything. If I can't get them off in time, I know that there is something wrong with my strategy. As soon as I go into Combat Clinic with Hope, Lightning and Snow I can count on Hope to throw out the Cures and he does it so well. The combat system is constantly surprising me and I'm always running into new challenges. (I'm still playing btw, I'm not done the game at 53 hours) 
 
In short it's just an extremely visceral and satisfying experience. I do not understand at all where the hate for this game is coming from. I really, really don't. It just proves to me more and more than I should never listen to anything another person has to say about a game, other people's opinions about games are useless. 

#8 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@Marz said:
"so you can't specify which buffs and spells you want them to cast at certain times. "
Libra will change the AI of your allies so buffing and curing is no problem. If you scan an enemy and it shows that it can release strong magic it will make shell a priority, as an example. 
 
@Laketown: This was one of my first impressions, the combat reminds me of the basics of Persona 3 except made you know, fun. I love Persona a lot but the combat felt rather stuck in the past in a lot of ways.
#9 Posted by KuwabaraTheMan (155 posts) -

Personally, I think this might be one of the best battle systems of all time. It's refreshing, different and it's fast while also really emphasizing strategy and thinking things through. Pretty much every boss fight (and the vast majority of regular encounters) require some degree of strategy and thinking on your feet to win, yet the battles also flow really fast, which actually makes forming strategies more of a challenge.

#10 Posted by Marz (5642 posts) -
@Zenaxzd: well i was kinda thinking more along the lines of i want shell on my characters now, but the npc synergist will go through all the buffs before it gets to one you want.  Unless the character your controlling has those spells, otherwise it eats up alot of strategy waiting for those buffs to be applied.  Offensive spells are fine with libra, just like having control of the spells myself.
#11 Posted by Addfwyn (1917 posts) -
@Marz: Defensive spells are helped by Libra too.  Notice how every enemy has 'deals devastating physical attacks' or 'deals devastating magical attacks' in the description?  That tells your synergist what to cast.  Your ally will cast 'Protect' if the enemy 'deals devastating physical attacks' but won't waste their time casting shell.  The inverse is true if they deal 'devastating magical attacks'.  If they deal 'devastating <element attacks' then the synergist will cast bar<element> 
 
Of course, if you prefer your own order you can always control the synergist yourself.  I'm partial to controlling my saboteur for that reason.
#12 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@Addfwyn: That's totally what I said but he seemed to not understand or ignore or something, I dunno :|
#13 Posted by Signpost (47 posts) -

I was really skeptical going into this game when I heard you didn't control your other teammates but I have been very, very impressed with the AI.  Just like the others have said your teammates will always prioritize their buffs/debuffs based on the known information about the enemy.  There hasn't been a single time as of yet where I was wishing they would cast a different spell first.

#14 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

The battle system is one of the best FF battle systems imo.

#15 Posted by Kombat (2205 posts) -

There are a lot of things to criticize in Final Fantasy XIII, and the battle system is far from being one of them.

#16 Posted by Jasonofindy (258 posts) -

I can honestly say that 6 hours in I still didn't like it so I sent the game back to Gamefly.  Over the past decade the makers of RPGs have tried to "improve" combat, and I can honestly say that I just don't like the direction they've gone.  In a way it is weird.  I LOVE real time combat where you control a single character and have full control.  (Oblivion, Two Worlds, Demon's Souls, Fable 1 & 2, and various ARPGs.  I also LOVE true turned based combat where you strategically control an entire party's every action as in most classic JRPGs.. However, I just don't enjoy hybrid systems where you control a single player with support characters in real time (even in cases like the bioware games where you can pause to direct others).    I was overjoyed when Final Fantasy 13 was billed as having a "turned based" system.   Even after learning that this really wasn't the case, I was willing to put the time into the game to check it out.  Unfortunately, I was ultimately disappointed.   
 
I can definitely see why they chose this system.  It is very cinematic and shows off the visuals without the jarring long cutscene summons of the PSX era games.  I can also see why others find it fun.  I really like the fact the game heals you completely after each battle saving the inevitable but tedious process of casting multiple cures or using multiple potions after each battle like in the old games.  I agree with the above poster that the AI works rather well.  I just don't personally find the battles engaging or fun.  

#17 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -

People aren't hating on this game because its bad, people are hating on this game because its not the style of game that they like. The people that are saying this game is bad, would most likely say that any Japanese RPG is bad. Thats the only thing that can explain the crazy mixed reviews.

#18 Posted by Addfwyn (1917 posts) -
@DoctorWelch: This, 1000x over, can sum up pretty much every massive discussion people have about whether XIII is good or not.
#19 Posted by PureRok (4235 posts) -
@Zenaxzd said:
"
@Laketown: This was one of my first impressions, the combat reminds me of the basics of Persona 3 except made you know, fun. I love Persona a lot but the combat felt rather stuck in the past in a lot of ways. "
Really? I feel the opposite. It's like Persona 3 if it wasn't fun.
#20 Posted by Rockdalf (1274 posts) -
@DoctorWelch said:
" People aren't hating on this game because its bad, people are hating on this game because its not the style of game that they like. The people that are saying this game is bad, would most likely say that any Japanese RPG is bad. Thats the only thing that can explain the crazy mixed reviews. "
Agreed.  You can always count on something different in a FF.  Personally, I liked FF Xs combat, but I would be disappointed if they copied it.  This combat system is adequate, better than XII (also in my opinion).
 
With me, I want the bare ATB, like X or even VII and VIII -OR- I want roam, press X to attack and such (Kingdom Hearts).  The in the middle stuff kills me.
 
I hope VS XIII is like the latter.
#21 Posted by DoctorWelch (2774 posts) -
@Rockdalf: Yeah I am exactly the same way. I've always liked Square's games when the are fully turn based like the older final fantasy games, or the kingdom hearts style, and I hated the combat system in XII. That being said, I think that they finally found a system in between the two that doesn't feel boring and contrived. They found a way to keep some general turn based mechanics, but make it look and feel like you and your characters are always active even though you aren't pressing specific buttons to attack like in kingdom hearts.
#22 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@Rockdalf: Technically X didn't have the ATB as it stands for Active Time Battle, an emphasis on keeping battles flowing quickly with the use of a time bar that tries to keep you making decisions fast. In X ATB was completely striped away in favor of the Conditional Turn Based Battle (a term I assume someone said somewhere, pulling this from FF wiki reading) or CTB where instead of equal turns based on the bar timer characters with higher speed got more turns, you could spend all day on the basic menu and no enemy could attack. In a sense it's closer to the systems of 1-3 more than 4-9. 
 
 X-2 perfected what I would consider the traditional "ATB" and FF13 honestly feels like a evolution of that system in many ways (multiple characters attacking at once, changing classes mid combat, character positioning actually effecting who is hit by AOE, etc) and as much as people want to deny it 12 is just an even bigger evolution of the ATB. Bars still fill up, you still select attacks and so on. 
 
But yeah, ever since X (they have even said it, this isn't just me mindlessly rambling) they want to re-haul the system each and every new game which I do love and hate at the same time, I am sad I will probably never play another FF in the style of 12 and even now 13 but seeing what they want to do next is always exciting. There are always plenty of traditional RPGs in the style of earlier FF games for people to play, let Square keep making new shit.
#23 Edited by sixpin (1286 posts) -

I really liked the combat in most of the FF games, XII included. They have always held to a strategic element. The combat in XIII doesn't seem to follow that tradition though. The battles are frantic and twitch based. There isn't a great deal of strategy to them, at least not as much. However, XIII has bigger problems than the combat system. The lack of player options, convoluted narrative, and the snails pace of the first 15-20 hours is by far the worst complaints. It isn't a bad  game, but it isn't a great one either. It certainly isn't the type of RPG that I wanted. Even the developers of XIII said that they don't consider this one a RPG in a recent Game informer interview. The idea of a main title FF game not being created with RPG in mind seems rather off and a bit telling as to why it is my least favorite since Sakaguchi left Square.

#24 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@sixpin: No strategy to 13 battles, you're joking right? 
 
Okay, to be fair you can get through a lot of battles about 4 times longer than they should actually last by using nothing but Rav/Com/med and occasionally a Sen, but if you would actually like the main story to not be 60 hours and get those 5 star ratings (which have more purpose than simple e-peen waving) 13 requires quite a bit of strategy along with twitchy combat.
#25 Posted by MildMolasses (3213 posts) -
@Zenaxzd said:
" @sixpin: No strategy to 13 battles, you're joking right?  Okay, to be fair you can get through a lot of battles about 4 times longer than they should actually last by using nothing but Rav/Com/med and occasionally a Sen, but if you would actually like the main story to not be 60 hours and get those 5 star ratings (which have more purpose than simple e-peen waving) 13 requires quite a bit of strategy along with twitchy combat. "

You're right, but figuring out how to get those 5-star rankings is where the fun comes from. 
 
I'm still a little iffy on the combat. At times it can't be really intense and enjoyable. But if you get to one of the harder fights, it becomes really tedious switching back and forth between 2 or 3 paradigms until you finally win. Ultimately, the AI does a good job (using Libra is essential though) but I would still have appreciated full control over the party, or at the very least choosing who was the party leader rather than being forced to use whoever they decided
#26 Posted by sixpin (1286 posts) -
@Zenaxzd: I didn't say that there was "No strategy..." What I said was, "  There isn't a great deal of strategy to them, at least not as much." I made that distinction on purpose. And I don't consider shifting from War & Piece to Yin & Yang, or Dualcating a difficult strategy to follow. I'm being somewhat of a reductionist for brevity, but you get my point.
#27 Posted by sixpin (1286 posts) -
@MildMolasses said: 
" You're right, but figuring out how to get those 5-star rankings is where the fun comes from.  I'm still a little iffy on the combat. At times it can't be really intense and enjoyable. But if you get to one of the harder fights, it becomes really tedious switching back and forth between 2 or 3 paradigms until you finally win. Ultimately, the AI does a good job (using Libra is essential though) but I would still have appreciated full control over the party, or at the very least choosing who was the party leader rather than being forced to use whoever they decided "
Yes. This is what I'm saying. I don't mean to imply that it is a button masher - at least not after the 5-10 hour mark.
#28 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@MildMolasses: No specific story spoilers but later in the game when the story finally puts all characters together you get to choose who you want to control. I can't think of a single way they could of kept how fast paced the combat is while having full control of your party, I honestly like this more. 
 
@sixpin: fair enough, my bad. However, I think saying there isn't a lot of strategy in picking the correct class combo for the right time isn't doing the game justice since it constantly rolls out new encounters and mobs that require you to rethink things. Sure you aren't exactly mapping plans for the future with every little move you make but compared to most RPGs that come out I would say this game requires much more thought than others. There is a lot of fine details to it that I think people seem to glaze over.
#29 Posted by MildMolasses (3213 posts) -
@Zenaxzd:
I know that evenually I get to choose who's in my party and whom I control. I'm just thinking of a part when it was just Hope and Lightning, and I had to control Hope. I would have much preferred to be controlling Lightning whenever possible (which is usually the case)
#30 Posted by Jimi (1126 posts) -

The battle system is probably the best part of this game.
 
The absolute worst part would have to be that they restrict party control options all the way up to chapter 9. The parts where you had to play as vanille or hope were just terrible.

#31 Posted by Rockdalf (1274 posts) -
@Jimi said:
" The battle system is probably the best part of this game. The absolute worst part would have to be that they restrict party control options all the way up to chapter 9. The parts where you had to play as vanille or hope were just terrible. "
Wow, I feel the exact opposite.  I'm the kinda guy who'll only play with three certain characters so I appreciate being forced to use others.  The combat system however, I've already expressed my opinion on.
#32 Posted by Belonpopo (1823 posts) -
@Rockdalf: 
 

Wow, I feel the exact opposite. 

Awwwwwwww, SHIT!!
#33 Edited by Phaseshift (222 posts) -
@Rockdalf said:

" @Jimi said:

" The battle system is probably the best part of this game. The absolute worst part would have to be that they restrict party control options all the way up to chapter 9. The parts where you had to play as vanille or hope were just terrible. "
Wow, I feel the exact opposite.  I'm the kinda guy who'll only play with three certain characters so I appreciate being forced to use others.  The combat system however, I've already expressed my opinion on. "
#34 Posted by Rockdalf (1274 posts) -
@Phaseshift: Yeah, I'm in Chapter 11 (have the playstation version) so I know you get to choose later.  I just didn't mind the lack of selection as much as others.
#35 Posted by Nictel (2380 posts) -

I was thinking about this the other day and personally I already have enough on my hands with one character and switching classes, controlling three characters at this pace would just be impossible. 
 
This system only works with good AI and luckily it is.

#36 Posted by Snail (8579 posts) -

I'm sorry, but all the reviews I've read thus far bash the linear world and bland character development.

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