A rambling about the first 20 hours.

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#51 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@AlexW00d said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @haggis:  You've said even less of substance and went out of your way to deride people you know nothing about.
 
@AlexW00d said:
" I hate how everyone who defends this game always spurt out the same shit about it being cool to hate the game and that people that hate it are idiots and blah blah blah, but they never actually provide valid arguments, whereas people who didn't like the game provide very valid arguments.  "
That's not what everyone that liked the game says in its defense.  Some of us actually do make points.  Others just choose not to pay those points any attention at all. "
All you've done in this thread is take multiple points someone has said and throw them aside with petty comments, not once have you made a valid point, something I seem to have seen you do in multiple threads. So please, say something that shows you know what you are talking about, please. "
You're judging my arguments on the game as a whole based on a back-and-forth with a guy complaining about how a particular character's design was created to promote sexual deviancy.  That's not the same as arguing about the quality of the game itself.  And like I said earlier in this thread, based on my own personal experience, I really don't get the "twenty-hour tutorial" feeling from FFXIII because during those first twenty hours, things are always happening.  The story is progressing, new gameplay elements are opened up, and in general there is a constant forward momentum.  When it finally got to the point where I had my full party and could switch out my battle line-up as desired, I didn't breathe a sigh of relief.  I thought it was cool and just kept going.
 
I'm really not sure what kind of argument that you want me to mount here.  Whether you find those first twenty hours fun or boring is a matter of personal preference; not of inherent truth and falsehood.
#52 Posted by sopranosfan (1935 posts) -

Although I did miss the towns for some reason my only real complaint was that I found navigating the battles manually almost impossible in all but the simplest battles and I found the auto to be too easy. 
#53 Posted by TooWalrus (13258 posts) -

I'm about 10 hours in now, and still like it. The only thing that really bugs me is Vanilla or whatever (I call her Vanilla, just cause). Her voice acting is extremely doofy. Hope kinda sucks too, but the rest of them are likable enough, I like the combat, graphics are awesome, music is great, story is fine, and the fact that it's not a complete rehash of old JRPGs is kind of refreshing (I really don't care about the lack of conventional towns, if they want to give me a place to shop every save point, I'm fine with that.)

#54 Posted by blueduck (964 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @AlexW00d said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @haggis:  You've said even less of substance and went out of your way to deride people you know nothing about.
 
@AlexW00d said:
" I hate how everyone who defends this game always spurt out the same shit about it being cool to hate the game and that people that hate it are idiots and blah blah blah, but they never actually provide valid arguments, whereas people who didn't like the game provide very valid arguments.  "
That's not what everyone that liked the game says in its defense.  Some of us actually do make points.  Others just choose not to pay those points any attention at all. "
All you've done in this thread is take multiple points someone has said and throw them aside with petty comments, not once have you made a valid point, something I seem to have seen you do in multiple threads. So please, say something that shows you know what you are talking about, please. "
You're judging my arguments on the game as a whole based on a back-and-forth with a guy complaining about how a particular character's design was created to promote sexual deviancy.  That's not the same as arguing about the quality of the game itself.  And like I said earlier in this thread, based on my own personal experience, I really don't get the "twenty-hour tutorial" feeling from FFXIII because during those first twenty hours, things are always happening.  The story is progressing, new gameplay elements are opened up, and in general there is a constant forward momentum.  When it finally got to the point where I had my full party and could switch out my battle line-up as desired, I didn't breathe a sigh of relief.  I thought it was cool and just kept going.  I'm really not sure what kind of argument that you want me to mount here.  Whether you find those first twenty hours fun or boring is a matter of personal preference; not of inherent truth and falsehood. "
Are you one of those  pasty white kids that loves everything to do with Japan no matter what it is?
#55 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@blueduck:  No.  Are you one of those high school students that thinks he's clever in using insults as old as the internet itself?
#56 Posted by blueduck (964 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @blueduck:  No.  Are you one of those high school students that thinks he's clever in using insults as old as the internet itself? "
Really man how big is your  hentai collection?
#57 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@blueduck said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @blueduck:  No.  Are you one of those high school students that thinks he's clever in using insults as old as the internet itself? "
Really man how big is your  hentai collection? "
Well, let's see here.  I've got Weather Report Girl on DVD, which I bought for like five bucks when a local rental was clearing out their older titles (and is honestly far more ridiculous than it is arousing), and a couple of doujinshi manga a friend brought back when he went on a trip to Japan five or six years ago.  That's it, really.  Why do you ask?  Interested in borrowing something?
#58 Posted by natetodamax (19220 posts) -
@blueduck said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @blueduck:  No.  Are you one of those high school students that thinks he's clever in using insults as old as the internet itself? "
Really man how big is your  hentai collection? "
I don't want to get involved in this truly riveting debate, but what the hell are you trying to accomplish blueduck? How did this even turn into a hentai discussion? Oh, right, because earlier someone thought that Vanille was obviously designed to appeal to sexual predators. A'ight. 
 
Final Fantasy XIII is a beautiful game. It's just unfortunate that, in my opinion, the gameplay doesn't back up said beauty. Maybe I'll finish it one day, although that day seems far off.
#59 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -

Is this forum really at such a low place where liking FFXIII makes you a hentai fan? Seriously?

#60 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @haggis:  You've said even less of substance and went out of your way to deride people you know nothing about. "
Where the heck did I deride you for anything? All I implied was that you didn't seem to know what I was talking about regarding hentai, something which you, to this moment, haven't disproved. You asked me questions. What subset? Lolicon, I answered. You seem like one of those people who can't possibly believe that anyone would have a different opinion as you do. Seriously, grow up.
 
@Hailinel said:

"You're judging my arguments on the game as a whole based on a back-and-forth with a guy complaining about how a particular character's design was created to promote sexual deviancy. "

Which shows you're either high or can't read. I never said any such thing. All I said was that the character was clearly based on a particular stereotype popular in Japanese porn. You haven't actually even tried to make the argument that I'm wrong. I'd welcome an attempt, as I've said, but I've yet to see it.
#61 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@Juno500 said:
" Is this forum really at such a low place where liking FFXIII makes you a hentai fan? Seriously? "
Just remember that I didn't say that. That's the twisted reading that Hailinel is giving to my reason for not like one particular character in a game that, for the most part, I actually liked, save for the slow pace of the gameplay improvements and silly story.
#62 Posted by Afroman269 (7387 posts) -

Hmm didn't take long for this thread to dissolve into white knights and haters like nearly all of the other FF 13 threads. I really want to give this game a chance but I rather wait for this game to be way cheap (yes, less than $20) and even then I just don't have the free time like I used to, to invest into this game and then finding out 10 or more hours in if I'm going to hate this game or not.

#63 Posted by pwnasaurus (1286 posts) -

I'm so happy i have never played or have seen a final fantasy game being played. feels good. like I have accomplished something.

#64 Edited by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@haggis said:


 
Which shows you're either high or can't read. I never said any such thing. All I said was that the character was clearly based on a particular stereotype popular in Japanese porn. You haven't actually even tried to make the argument that I'm wrong. I'd welcome an attempt, as I've said, but I've yet to see it. "


Vanille is the overly energetic and excessively cheerful young girl that has appeared in so many stories acroos many different forms of media. Rikku, Yuffie, and Selphie were similar character types in previous FF games. Saying it was based off of a pornographic stereotype seems like a stretch given that her character type is very common across non-hentai media forms.
 
Also, I wasn't referring to you with my prior comment.
#65 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@Juno500:    I didn't say the stereotype was inherently pornographic, only that the stereotype is common in hentai, particularly when you factor in her odd behavior. It's hardly a stretch to make this comparison. If you don't see it, fine, but I'm not the only one to make it. Comparing her to characters like Rikku (among others) seems off to me. Vanille's character as a whole seemed to me to have an odd subtext that ran counter to the grain of the story. If you like the character, that's fine. I'm only stating why I didn't.
#66 Edited by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@haggis:  I just don't see it. You're reaching. And her odd behavior is eventually explained as being her way of hiding her feelings of guilt. So it didn't feel as though it was done solely to make her appear more childish and appeal to perverts.
 
And I didn't like Vanille either, in fact she really annoyed me. But I think you're going too far with this.
#67 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@Juno500: You honestly don't sense a loli flavor to Vanille's character? Alright, fine. But back when the game came out there were endless discussions of this on other gaming boards, and I couldn't help but agree with it.
#68 Posted by blueduck (964 posts) -
@haggis said:
" @Juno500: You honestly don't sense a loli flavor to Vanille's character? Alright, fine. But back when the game came out there were endless discussions of this on other gaming boards, and I couldn't help but agree with it. "
That's because it's so obviously true it's out of control. Most American games have half naked chicks with huge boobs this is the same thing only this is the way JRPGs choose to do it. 
#69 Posted by zityz (2360 posts) -

Dude 10 more hours to go and your done the tutorial!  
 
Honestly, aside from the graphics, the battles and  the music, and well yea I like Lightning as a main character. The game's plot is boring. Nothing grips you..NOTHING. I was on the 3rd disc (360) and Got to Pulse and it went from a Linear RPG to a single player MMO. I got to some boss that has 2mil health and I just got bored too much to give a shit. 
 
From what Ive heard the end boss is forgettable. Game itself is an all around mess and anyone who things otherwise is completely blind.

#70 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@haggis said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @haggis:  You've said even less of substance and went out of your way to deride people you know nothing about. "
Where the heck did I deride you for anything? All I implied was that you didn't seem to know what I was talking about regarding hentai, something which you, to this moment, haven't disproved. You asked me questions. What subset? Lolicon, I answered. You seem like one of those people who can't possibly believe that anyone would have a different opinion as you do. Seriously, grow up.
 
@Hailinel said:

"You're judging my arguments on the game as a whole based on a back-and-forth with a guy complaining about how a particular character's design was created to promote sexual deviancy. "

Which shows you're either high or can't read. I never said any such thing. All I said was that the character was clearly based on a particular stereotype popular in Japanese porn. You haven't actually even tried to make the argument that I'm wrong. I'd welcome an attempt, as I've said, but I've yet to see it. "
I didn't say you derided me.  But blanket cultural statements are pretty low.  I know what lolicon is, thank you, but Vanille isn't an example of that.  Not in the least.  If you're seeing that in her, that's your problem.
#71 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@haggis said:
" @Juno500: You honestly don't sense a loli flavor to Vanille's character? Alright, fine. But back when the game came out there were endless discussions of this on other gaming boards, and I couldn't help but agree with it. "
I'm not saying there isn't an aspect to it, but I think that it's not as simple as that.
#72 Posted by Smallerz (122 posts) -
@Pinworm45:  The part I find most amusing is that the finale isn't even that good - certainly not worth slogging through twenty or more hours for.
#73 Edited by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@zityz said:

" Dude 10 more hours to go and your done the tutorial!   Honestly, aside from the graphics, the battles and  the music, and well yea I like Lightning as a main character. The game's plot is boring. Nothing grips you..NOTHING. I was on the 3rd disc (360) and Got to Pulse and it went from a Linear RPG to a single player MMO. I got to some boss that has 2mil health and I just got bored too much to give a shit.  From what Ive heard the end boss is forgettable. Game itself is an all around mess and anyone who things otherwise is completely blind. "

Could you please not resort to blanket statements that are basically nothing more than "if you like FFXIII then you're stupid"? I find the argument to be very lacking.
#74 Edited by haggis (1677 posts) -
@Hailinel said:

"I didn't say you derided me.  But blanket cultural statements are pretty low.  I know what lolicon is, thank you, but Vanille isn't an example of that.  Not in the least.  If you're seeing that in her, that's your problem. "

I made a statement about a very narrow subset of Japanese porn. I didn't make any "blanket cultural statements." You say, "Vanille isn't an example of that." Alright: tell me how she isn't. Make an argument, at least. Try. But being blithely dismissive is getting tiresome. Make an argument or, if you won't, then just agree to disagree.
 
@Juno500 said:
"I'm not saying there isn't an aspect to it...
So I'm not stretching, then. Thanks, that's my whole point. That aspect of the character was enough to turn me off. It wasn't enough to turn you off. I find it amusing that people (well, Hailinel at least) that it's not there "in the least." I do find it amusing that you went from me making this huge stretch to say that there was a loli thing going on there, to basically saying, "yeah, your right, there's something to that." All I ever said was that the character had that aspect to it, and that I didn't particularly like it.
 
Now, we've hijacked the thread long enough. Can we move on?
#75 Posted by Juno500 (481 posts) -
@haggis:  Well then obviously we misunderstood each other the whole time. I thought you were saying that was the main point of Vanille's character, which is what I found to be a stretch.
#76 Posted by Alphiehyr (1083 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @Marcsman said:
" It sucks in general. "
So do you. "
I'm pretty sure his entitled to his opinion without being provoked by FF asshole fans.
#77 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@haggis:  You want an example?  If Vanille were an example of lolicon, she'd be prepubescent.
#78 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@Hailinel:  Loli isn't about being pre-pubescent, it's about underage girls and adult girls who behave underage.
#79 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@haggis said:
" @Hailinel:  Loli isn't about being pre-pubescent, it's about underage girls and adult girls who behave underage. "
Vanille doesn't behave like a child, though.
#80 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @haggis said:
" @Hailinel:  Loli isn't about being pre-pubescent, it's about underage girls and adult girls who behave underage. "
Vanille doesn't behave like a child, though. "
Pfft! That's hilarious. Of course she does.
#81 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@haggis said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @haggis said:
" @Hailinel:  Loli isn't about being pre-pubescent, it's about underage girls and adult girls who behave underage. "
Vanille doesn't behave like a child, though. "
Pfft! That's hilarious. Of course she does. "
You say she does, but you don't specify in what manner.
#82 Posted by Ace829 (2083 posts) -
@haggis: @Hailinel:
You guys are still debating this after 3 days? O_o
#83 Posted by haggis (1677 posts) -
@Ace829: Hey, I thought it was over, but Hailinel wants to keep it going, so ... whatever.
 
@Hailinel: I explained this waaay back at the beginning. But seriously, if you don't agree that's fine.
#84 Posted by Hailinel (25205 posts) -
@haggis said:
" @Ace829: Hey, I thought it was over, but Hailinel wants to keep it going, so ... whatever.
 
@Hailinel: I explained this waaay back at the beginning. But seriously, if you don't agree that's fine. "
Fine, then.  I wasn't intent on keeping this going.

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