Congrats Brad, Excellent review.. At last a realistic grade for

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#51 Edited by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@Brodehouse said:

" @InfiniteStateMachine:  I think world maps are stupid in the extreme.  What they are is essentially a way to artificially lengthen a game by enforcing a long slog through random encounters or pointless traversal.  You rarely if ever explore a world map, because for plot reasons, most of them have nothing available except the next town in the story.  "

Shh don't tell that to crazy people. Only world map I could stand was FF12's because it was to scale and there were no random battles. Oh and there was actually tons of side stuff to explore that was completely irrelevant to the main story, and not just meaningless crap either - there was towns and camps with side quests, dungeons with treasure or optional bosses, and probably my favorite part, the totema chilling around waiting for you to stumble upon them so they could destroy you (if you were underleveled). Good times.
 
But yeah as others have said, I don't really agree with Brad's review at all but it is his opinion so w/e. I still wish the site had a dedicated RPG guy that actually played loads and loads of modern RPGs (of all origins) that really knew what they were talking about. I spend half my time head in hands when they talk about RPGs in general on the bombcast.
#52 Posted by lucas_kelly (769 posts) -

I agree with the score, the game really was a disappointment.

#53 Posted by yeahno (269 posts) -
@ClownDetective said:
" But this game is getting a lot of hate from people who never finished it, came to it with preconceived ideas, or just use it as another excuse to bash jrpgs. "
 
I agree. I can see that when people start bashing it because you press X a lot. Isn't that in every FF game anyways?
#54 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

Yes, because you find a review that you agree with finally it is the only one that is correct. "sigh"

#55 Posted by tomte (291 posts) -

I kinda agree with Brad but for me it would be a 4/5. The first 20 hours i would give 3/5, it's far from bad and it kept me entertained. And the last 30 hours is for me a 5/5.

#56 Posted by Brodehouse (10105 posts) -
@InfiniteStateMachine:  Very few of the side quests in FF6 were available from the world map.  Most of them involved you travelling across the world map to reach a town or dungeon where the next side quest would begin.  The only quest I can think of that is launched from the world map is allowing the party to get swallowed by the Zone Eater on Triangle Island.  And maybe finding Duncan's secret cottage.  Everything else is based on the location... the Cult of Kefka tower, the Magic House in Jidoor, meeting Gau's father, hunting Hidon near Thamasa... the game would lose nothing if the towns were selectable from a menu.  All the designed content, all the unique set pieces happen in dungeons, not on the world map.  Which is why I can't get with this idea that manually traveling across an overworld is ideal. 
 
I can agree that an overworld can be done right.  Games that have a lot of hidden content launched from the overworld (like FF8) make it a valid choice for exploration.  At the same time, it's rarely necessary for it to be on a world map, as the effort spent putting a hidden cave on the overworld can be used to put a hidden cave in a dungeon.
 
I look at a game like Lufia as a prime example of an overworld done wrong.  So much of that game is slogging through the overworld trying to reach the next town.   No puzzles or unique encounters, just pure RPG random encounter slog.  Furthermore, a lot of the terrain in the overworld was specifically designed to force you in a certain direction, fostering the same linearity you would get from a cleverly designed dungeon encounter.
 
I think another portion of the end of the overworld is not just that devs have realized that players want content (set pieces, challenges, scenarios) instead of randomly generated combat, it's also that they can't afford to create content that players may or may not find.  Very little in Final Fantasy XIII is secret or hidden, everything they created is available without accidentally stumbling into a hidden area of the game.  It makes economic sense that rather than create additional content that will keep a small number of players searching for more, to create additional content that everyone is aware of and can figure out how to access.
#57 Edited by InfiniteStateMachine (215 posts) -
@Brodehouse:  After FF7 I skipped to FFX. I mean it could partially be the characters but after about 10 hours of FFX I figured the game wasnt going to open up and got insanely bored of it.    

Regarding the world map & quests though, half of the fun was trying to find these places. When i simply go from place to place by switching around in a menu there's this lack of accomplishment feeling I get.   
 
" I think another portion of the end of the overworld is not just that devs have realized that players want content (set pieces, challenges, scenarios) instead of randomly generated combat, it's also that they can't afford to create content that players may or may not find.  Very little in Final Fantasy XIII is secret or hidden, everything they created is available without accidentally stumbling into a hidden area of the game.  It makes economic sense that rather than create additional content that will keep a small number of players searching for more, to create additional content that everyone is aware of and can figure out how to access." 
 
Well ultimately it lost me as a customer.  I would prefer to have a graphically devoid game where those resources were more geared towards content/events, perhaps content that could alter the story if you seek it out etc.
 
 Games like Oblivion, fallout and the ilke do show that there are people who want a large overworld, of course they are also sparse. I just feel FF went WAY too far in the other direction, I would like to be somewhere in the middle. Hell maybe a more RPG-like Link to the Past is what I'm looking for :)
#58 Posted by RedHerb (84 posts) -

After 80 hrs i've put into the game, i would say brad's review is fair.  I flucuated between bordom and fun-dom whening playing this game. 
 
I'm a little cheesed off at it right now.  There are so many pacing and design choices which are a pain in the arse. Some people get over these and others, well it hits them like a brick wall. For me they just leave a bad after taste. 
 
Take for instance what pissing me off atm. I was fighting the mission 55 neochu (i really hate this boss) i have maxed out all my main roles. With light/fang/hope.
 
I treid and retreid this mission for at least 2 hrs! getting so close to beating it each time. But before the end i always got overwhelmed by pollen and those little respawning mother fuckers. My strategy seemed sound, building chain gauges with mystic tower, buffing and healling to counter the scream and pollen. but to no avail.
 
Then i gave up, switched in vanille, and spammed death, it was over in less then 4 mins. "FUCK THIS GAME! With it's shit leveling system, shitty weapon upgrade system and stupid battle system." this my review atm....

#59 Posted by fjor (303 posts) -

i still love his review on dark cloud 2 ....back in the days at gamespot

#60 Posted by Computerplayer1 (991 posts) -

Yah, I wouldn't give it more than a 3/5. His thoughts on it being too linear for it's own good are spot on.
 
The imaginary freedom older FF games gave you is far better than what is given to you in 13.
 
It's painfully obvious they're trying to just make the game all about it's story, which would be fine if they could write a decent story. The world they built around the game is stellar, and the story doesn't do it justice. 
 
Even with that being said, the game is still enjoyable. It's probably more enjoyable for those who've never played an older FF game, or who started at 10.

#61 Posted by nail1080 (1975 posts) -

he played a game before he reviewed it? OMG shock horror!!
 
oh wait it's his job big deal

#62 Posted by BatOtaku13 (143 posts) -

even though i don't agree with his review, it still was a very well written review.

#63 Posted by Brodehouse (10105 posts) -
@Computerplayer1:  I actually think the story wasn't too bad, I think it's the storytelling that needs a little work.  Dramatic pacing and the rate at which it wants to dole out character motivation is all jacked up.
 
I think one of the biggest stumbling blocks of the  first 4 chapters is that it is so reticent to give us any semblance of character motivation except for the barest necessities.  Consider that it doesn't even make sense that Sazh is there until 10 hours into the game.  When people play the first 2 hours and hate Vanille, it's half because of her voice and idiocy, and half because her motivations are completely unclear.
 
A girlfriend of mine watched me play an early section with Vanille and Hope, and asked me why she was leading him towards the Vestige.  I admitted that I had no idea.  She then asked why none of the characters asked her, and the only thing I could say is that it's a JRPG and I have to play another 5 hours before I find out.
#64 Posted by Fallen189 (5049 posts) -

Well done on playing a game and saying what you thought about it.

#65 Posted by Lambert (404 posts) -

Congrats, Astras! Excellent thread. 
 
Everything you said was true. This game is just mediocre, and all the sheep and "reviewers" giving this game anything more than a mediocre score obviously is just blind or hasn't even played the game.
 
Why do you think the Square Enix president said he wouldn't look at reviews? He knew the game was mediocre, and nothing special. Surprisingly, it turned out the reviews given were mercy points because it is a Final Fantasy game.
 
If this game was called something else, no one would care, and would call it out for its obvious mediocrity.

#66 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@Lambert: Didn't you already troll in this thread? Back under the bridge with you!
#67 Posted by xyzygy (10062 posts) -
@Lambert: Why do you always insist on insulting those who like the game? Why can't people just like certain games that others don't? If we all liked the same things we'd be no different than the next guy.
#68 Edited by Romination (2777 posts) -

For fuck's sake, what if some people LIKE THE GAME!?
 
O_O
Deadly Premonition has a perfect score on Destructoid even though he says it's broken and kind of the worst thing ever, but it's hilarious and irreverent and a fever dream that keeps mounting himself.
 
Reviews are analytical opinions. What's good to someone isn't good to someone else. Ge'ez, gamers suck sometimes.

#69 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@Romination: OP has Sephiroth as his avatar, I find it hard to take him seriously. That's just me though...
#70 Posted by Zero_ (1977 posts) -
@Romination: I would never, ever quote Destructoid as an argument for something. They'll throw out 10s and 4s just to be controversial.
#71 Posted by Supermarius (1196 posts) -
@jmrwacko: @jmrwacko said:
" It's a little weird that Brad reviewed FFXIII. I don't think of him as an RPG guy. Actually, I don't think of Brad as necessarily being an expert in any genre, although it's fun to watch him die over and over in shooter quicklooks. "
Hey could everyone maybe stop saying such casually dickish things about Brad? I don't undestand why so many people like to dump on him.
#72 Posted by AuthenticM (3784 posts) -

His review is spot on. Good job Brad.

#73 Posted by Astras (973 posts) -
@Zenaxzd said:
" @Romination: OP has Sephiroth as his avatar, I find it hard to take him seriously. That's just me though... "
yep, you are the problem. Why have some people that like FF7 been tarnished with this brush that they have:
 
Never played anything else, 
They only repeat playing FF7 over and over,
They only have an opinion on any other game if it promotes FF7,
They are all Playstation fanboys,
They are manga fanboys,
They all cried and self harmed when Aeris died,
They dress up as FF7 characters regular
They have turned there flat/house into an exact copy of the highwind
They only drink out of a glass that says elixir on it
They try and convincingly explain the existance of Caitsith and that he is a shinra employee and the cat with a mic was a good idea.
 
I mean is that list why??? because frankly it's bullshit and it's all far from the truth. It's almost like game racism.. that just because you like FF7, people immediately start.. infact i'm starting a new thread about this!
#74 Posted by HistoryInRust (6371 posts) -
@Kefkaesque said:
" I've heard the game doesn't get good for about twenty hours.
 
I don't care if it becomes the greatest game ever after that point. If you're asking me to slap down 60$ for an entertainment product and THEN ask me to play it for 20 hours before it becomes fun, I don't see how it could possibly be higher than 3 stars. "
This is my opinion on the matter, though it doesn't exactly hold up logically. 
 
Mostly because my idea of fun in a video game and someone else's idea of fun can be vastly different. I won't be buying the game, sure. But I know people who love the game through and through.
#75 Posted by Jeust (10796 posts) -
@Astras:  
 
Game racism, that is a good subject. 
 
Seeing the grade and appreciation from Brad, i don't think it is a bad review considering that it seems the happy medium from all the user reviews. 
#76 Edited by gike987 (1769 posts) -
@Astras said:

" @Zenaxzd said:

" @Romination: OP has Sephiroth as his avatar, I find it hard to take him seriously. That's just me though... "
yep, you are the problem. Why have some people that like FF7 been tarnished with this brush that they have:  Never played anything else,  They only repeat playing FF7 over and over,They only have an opinion on any other game if it promotes FF7, They are all Playstation fanboys, They are manga fanboys, They all cried and self harmed when Aeris died, They dress up as FF7 characters regular They have turned there flat/house into an exact copy of the highwind They only drink out of a glass that says elixir on it They try and convincingly explain the existance of Caitsith and that he is a shinra employee and the cat with a mic was a good idea.  I mean is that list why??? because frankly it's bullshit and it's all far from the truth. It's almost like game racism.. that just because you like FF7, people immediately start.. infact i'm starting a new thread about this! "
I think he is talking about how almost all FF7 fans haves decided to hate every final fantasy game that is not FF7 (that is when they don't scream for a remake).
#77 Posted by Tebbit (4480 posts) -

FFXIII is probably one of the most polarizing games I have ever seen! I, for example, have very little problem with the linear first 30 hours, and I don't get it when reviewers say it was suffocating or stiflingly confined. But then again, I was one of those people who wished you spent more time in Midgar at the start of FF7, so maybe thats just me being crazy.

#78 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@gunslingerNZ said:

" @Astras:  I'm pretty sure most reviewers for the big sites finished the game before reviewing it. I think Brad just took so long because he sorta sucks when it comes to games, harsh but true. "

Dude, Brad has awesome SHMUPS skills and can handle a bullet hell game like a pro.  He was better than Jeff in that Japanese Import SHMUP quick look.  He doesn't suck at all.  
 
 
  
All this 'pulled a Brad crap' came about because he's often a person talking and playing at the same and possibly also gets a little nervous under pressure when the camera is rolling so to speak.  My guess is he took so long because he has more than one game to review at the moment, as is normal for Games Journos.
#79 Posted by SteveV (182 posts) -

Theres nothing bad to be said about the game mechanics, the battle system is the best its been in the series, the major flaw of the game is the convoluted way the story is told and the progression and late introductions of the game mechanics. The game could have been condensed more, about 20 hours of stuff could be cut out, like the endless hallways of mobs just to get to the next cutscene, some of the paths just felt like extreme filler, if they made leveling up faster the could condense the game and make it far more effective in storytelling, and it took me 30 fricking hours to get to a place where I could roam freely, and then when you procede past that point your back to the yellow brick road.

#80 Posted by Dylabaloo (1549 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @gunslingerNZ said:

" @Astras:  I'm pretty sure most reviewers for the big sites finished the game before reviewing it. I think Brad just took so long because he sorta sucks when it comes to games, harsh but true. "

Dude, Brad has awesome SHMUPS skills and can handle a bullet hell game like a pro.  He was better than Jeff in that Japanese Import SHMUP quick look.  He doesn't suck at all.  
 
 

Quick Look: Japanese Import Shooters

Jeff and Brad test their mettle against a few Japanese import shooters.

Embed this video:
   All this 'pulled a Brad crap' came about because he's often a person talking and playing at the same and possibly also gets a little nervous under pressure when the camera is rolling so to speak.  My guess is he took so long because he has more than one game to review at the moment, as is normal for Games Journos. "
Spot on, that first comment is ridiculous of course Brad is a perfectly capable gamer he's S-ranked many a game including batman which has some harsh challenge rooms. Many Giantbomb staff members die while playing quicklooks because its difficult to play and talk, which has been pointed out before. Take Vinnies bufu accident in persona endurance run as an example. Also you have to take into account the events such as GDC that were going on that would hinder his review.
#81 Posted by Shinri (534 posts) -

lol, looks like someone doesn't know what 'opinions' are
#82 Posted by RandomHero666 (3182 posts) -
@josty81 said:
"The game is solid and I would maybe have given 4 stars myself but every point Brad makes is 100% valid.  13 ultimately suffers because Square apparently decided to listen to all the whiners who complained about 12. 12 was an amazing game that was too good for JRPG fans. "

Final Fantasy 12 is shite, i've played every FF game, XII is the worst. 
Even Crystal Chronicles was better
#83 Posted by ZenaxPure (2569 posts) -
@RandomHero666: Oh man, talking shit about opinions makes you so cool. 
 
12 is also my personal favorite, but @Josty81 it has nothing to do with Square listening to "whiners". 13 is made by a different team with different goals in mind than 12.
#84 Posted by RandomHero666 (3182 posts) -
@Zenaxzd: So.. voicing my opinion is talking shit about someone elses opinion? That makes real fucking sense.
#85 Edited by jmrwacko (2443 posts) -
@Supermarius said:

" @jmrwacko: @jmrwacko said:

" It's a little weird that Brad reviewed FFXIII. I don't think of him as an RPG guy. Actually, I don't think of Brad as necessarily being an expert in any genre, although it's fun to watch him die over and over in shooter quicklooks. "

Hey could everyone maybe stop saying such casually dickish things about Brad? I don't undestand why so many people like to dump on him. "
I'm sorry. I could start saying professionally dickish things about Brad, if you'd like...
 

@Dylabaloo

said:

" Spot on, that first comment is ridiculous of course Brad is a perfectly capable gamer he's S-ranked many a game including batman which has some harsh challenge rooms. Many Giantbomb staff members die while playing quicklooks because its difficult to play and talk, which has been pointed out before. Take Vinnies bufu accident in persona endurance run as an example. Also you have to take into account the events such as GDC that were going on that would hinder his review. "

See, Vinny's bufu accident was so bad it was epic. Brad dies so consistently in quicklooks that it's also epic, but more of a pathetic epic, like doing a belly flop off a 4-story building epic. But regardless, my whole point was that Brad's strongest suite doesn't seem to be RPGs, so it's a little weird that Brad reviewed FFXIII, instead of some other Giantbomb editor. Like you said, he seems to be a bigger fan of action games like Arkham Asylum, whereas FFXIII is very slow and methodically paced (which did hurt its score in the end, mind you). Certain gamers like that slow pace in RPGs, and that sort of pace is a real staple in JRPGs. Anyone here play Kingdom Hearts 2? Point proven.
#86 Posted by SeriouslyNow (8534 posts) -
@jmrwacko:   You're so full of it mate.  FFXIII earned the score it earned.  You can't riff of 'pulled a Brad' in the one breath but act as FFXIII apologist in the other.  Either you're a person who critiques harshly or you're not.  The only point you've proven is that you're inconsistent.
#87 Posted by jmrwacko (2443 posts) -
@SeriouslyNow said:
" @jmrwacko:   You're so full of it mate.  FFXIII earned the score it earned.  You can't riff of 'pulled a Brad' in the one breath but act as FFXIII apologist in the other.  Either you're a person who critiques harshly or you're not.  The only point you've proven is that you're inconsistent. "
Nowhere was I acting like an FFXIII apologist in my posts. I was merely stating that Brad didn't like FFXIII for its slow pace, but most RPG players are fans of that same slow pace he was criticizing. My point was that Brad doesn't seem to me like the right guy to review a final fantasy game. I'm not "criticizing" Brad, I'm just saying that I can't really take his critiques of FFXIII too seriously because I feel he's comparing an RPG with games from more action-oriented genres. Who knows if I'd like the game or not, but if I didn't enjoy it, it would probably be for different reasons than those that Brad listed in his review. That's all.
#88 Posted by jmrwacko (2443 posts) -
@RandomHero666 said:
" @josty81 said:
"The game is solid and I would maybe have given 4 stars myself but every point Brad makes is 100% valid.  13 ultimately suffers because Square apparently decided to listen to all the whiners who complained about 12. 12 was an amazing game that was too good for JRPG fans. "
Final Fantasy 12 is shite, i've played every FF game, XII is the worst. Even Crystal Chronicles was better "
Yeah, FFXII wasn't too great, but I don't think it was the worst if you consider FFXI a Final Fantasy title ;-) FFXII did have two good things going for it, IMO - an improved battle system (which I think they should bring back in later Final Fantasy titles), and a political, less melodramatic plot. It's just that the plot wasn't all that interesting because there wasn't enough character development, and the protagonist wasn't very likable or interesting (felt like another Zidane, tbh).
#89 Posted by Addfwyn (1940 posts) -

Eh, I disagree with the review, but I very often do with reviews here, not exactly what I come to the site for.  Here for video coverage/QLs/and the like.  I just don't share the same opinions about a lot of games as the GB staff, which is totally fine, I don't really expect to.  There are plenty of other sites great for reviews and that have more staff to get reviews out in a timely manner.  I'd frankly prefer to see less reviews on this site and more of the other type of content, as that is really where GB is best.

#90 Edited by RainVillain (482 posts) -
@Astras: 
At last someone in the industry has actually played final fantasy 13 before reviewing it. You can tell that some of the other gaming sites havn't played the game from the reviews I have seen, they just dont have time to play the game, and then they bottle it because of the significance of the title and usually settle with giving a big game around 4 - 5 out of 5 or 90%+ and talking a load of tosh.
 
I disagree. I think Brad's review was great but to say other people didn't finish the game before reviewing it would probably imply that it would have gotten much much worse reviews all around. All reviews unanimously  mention the dreadful start and how the game actually opens up later on. I wonder if you, TC, have even read any of those other reviews (not to mention Brad's) or simply glanced at the scores.
#91 Edited by Espio25 (31 posts) -

 I would of liked to have seen it achieve 4 stars but I think 3 is fair still. Those 3 stars have to go the Battle System and the look of the game. The story just didnt intergrate me like a normal Final Fantasy usually does and so had to lose out massively in score as thats what the series is heavily built on. Concerning the time it takes for the game to get "good", I personally dont have a problem with the large amount of time it takes as I feel im getting more from the £40 I paid for it. If this were the case in other games, usually the quality suffers in place of a longer game but with XIII it feels sustained through that intial 24hr period and then comes into its own after that point.
Reviewers that voice their opinion without even finishing the game annoy me more than those that I feel gave it less than I thought it deserved. Brad's review was pretty much spot on.

#92 Posted by Joeyoe31 (820 posts) -

I thought the game deserved a 1. >_>

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