Where do you think Square went wrong with FFXIII?

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#1 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -
#2 Posted by FancySoapsMan (5806 posts) -

I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what.

#3 Edited by Video_Game_King (35992 posts) -
@FancySoapsMan said:

" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "

This, kinda. They did get some things wrong (summon summon summon summon), but it was still a good game.
#4 Posted by Hailinel (23875 posts) -
@FancySoapsMan said:
" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "
This, really.  I felt nothing was really wrong with it.
#5 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

I thought it was a great game.

#6 Posted by lucas_kelly (769 posts) -

Oh so many things, so many things.

#7 Posted by luce (4045 posts) -

I liked the game a great deal. Hated the story but I always hate the story in FF games. Atleast I could stand the main character in this game

#8 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -
@Video_Game_King said:
" @FancySoapsMan said: 

" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "

This, kinda. They did get some things wrong (summon summon summon summon), but it was still a good game. "
You guys had more patience than I did, I stopped around the butcher mission (?) and gave it to a friend.
 
I didn't find the combat engaging at all, the story rubbed me the wrong way as it felt like I was just watching anime, I only liked Sazh, and of course the linearity of the thing. Just made me want to go back to Mass Effect 2 for my second playthrough on my 360.
#9 Posted by Video_Game_King (35992 posts) -
@Doctorchimp: 
 
Wait, what's the butcher mission? When the hell is that?
#10 Posted by Brunchies (2484 posts) -

I didn't think it was that bad, at least hope got less emo so that was good but Barthandulus pissed me off so I'm stuck at that point.

#11 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -
@Video_Game_King said:
" @Doctorchimp:   Wait, what's the butcher mission? When the hell is that? "  
Zenobia, mission 34.
#12 Posted by Video_Game_King (35992 posts) -
@Doctorchimp said:
" @Video_Game_King said:
" @Doctorchimp:   Wait, what's the butcher mission? When the hell is that? "  
Zenobia, mission 34. "
Zenobia? You're thinking of Tactics Ogre, aren't you?
#13 Edited by luce (4045 posts) -
@Doctorchimp said:

" @Video_Game_King said:

" @Doctorchimp:   Wait, what's the butcher mission? When the hell is that? "  
Zenobia, mission 34. "
Why would you play through the hunts before you finished the game? Especially if you "don't have the patience" ?
#14 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -
@luce said:
" @Doctorchimp said:
" @Video_Game_King said:
" @Doctorchimp:   Wait, what's the butcher mission? When the hell is that? "  
Zenobia, mission 34. "
Why would you play through the hunts before you finished the game?  "
I was close to the end and was actually having fun with the missions.
#15 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -
@Video_Game_King said:
" @Doctorchimp said:
" @Video_Game_King said:
" @Doctorchimp:   Wait, what's the butcher mission? When the hell is that? "  
Zenobia, mission 34. "
Zenobia? You're thinking of Tactics Ogre, aren't you? "
No it's a side quest, you didn't do any hunts?
#16 Posted by Video_Game_King (35992 posts) -
@Doctorchimp: 
 
They came near the end of the game, and they were self serving, so no.
#17 Posted by vidiot (2737 posts) -
@Hailinel said:
" @FancySoapsMan said:
" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "
This, really.  I felt nothing was really wrong with it. "
We've done this. Don't over-generalize. 
-_-
#18 Posted by hidys (1029 posts) -

pacing

#19 Edited by Cornman89 (1579 posts) -
@FancySoapsMan said:

" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "

This. It's far from a perfect game, but FFXIII was still an interesting little experiment, and I'd much rather have that than some tired retread of the series's glory days.
 
Very interesting read, incidentally. Thanks. I should check out Gamasutra more often.
#20 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -
@vidiot said:
" @Hailinel said:
" @FancySoapsMan said:
" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "
This, really.  I felt nothing was really wrong with it. "
We've done this. Don't over-generalize.  -_- "
fan-fucking-tastic blog sir. 
#21 Posted by Lemoncookie01 (1667 posts) -

There wasn't nothing wrong with it but there was nothing too special about it.

#22 Edited by Make_Me_Mad (3019 posts) -

They left out any sort of connection with the game world.  You meet all of one or two NPCs that actually talk to you for more than a second, you don't get to explore towns or ever feel like you're in the world.  At best, you feel like a visitor to the few non-combat areas in the game, and you're still stuck with the same point of view and inability to interact until you inevitably go right back to trudging through battles.

So, I guess, really, what they did wrong was draw all your attention to the least well developed part of any FF game, the battles.
Edit: I think it's telling (about something, for sure) that my favorite bits of the game were reading the glossary for information on the world, and the goofy online shops.  At least they had some personality (the shops, that is.  That glossary broke my heart, because any other FF game would have woven half of those things into the story instead of just having you read about it).

#23 Posted by bartok (2420 posts) -

Wait I loved Final Fantasy 13. Am I wrong for loving it ? I also thought the combat system was awesome and offered a lot more depth then people gave it credit for.

#24 Posted by Burns098356GX (1366 posts) -

My feelings on the series is that Square has moved away from what really sold that lineup, mainly the character development, plot and environments. Those were the meal tickets for the old FF games, then since FFX they just haven't produced a game that lived up to the standards of their old titles.
 
Lets take 13 for example. Besides Lightning, who did you really care about? And really, she wasn't a pivotal character. Sahz wasn't all the important, Hope was annoying and didnt have much impact on the plot, Snow had parts of the plot that tied into Lightnings character but overall with his goofy fucking 'hero' thing is just came off as annoying, Fang and Villile together had an alright backstory. Then look at 9, almost every one of those characters had a hug impact on the plot. Zidane, Garnet, Vivi, Eko. Even the sub-characters still had a decent role, Steiner was Garnets defender, wanting to uncover the truth about his Kingdon, Frey wanting to save the Dragon people, who are being attacked by Alexandria. The only 2 that seem fairly pointless wre Quina and Armarant.  The characters Square comes out with now, you simply don't care about them, and that removes you from the immersion of the game.

I can't stand their environments now. A world being run by machines....that have a soul? Its just odd, and not well fleshed out. Towards the beginning of the game, I thought Cocoon was essentially the same as that first city. Lights every where, tech-y, all that green and black lighting and whatever. When that first Le'cie blew the cast out of his camber and they landed in the crystal lake, I thought that was Pulse. Simple because they dont explain that well enough. You assuming that Cocoon was going to have the same feel as that first zone. 
 
Square has fallen far from where they used to be in many ways. The elements that made their games great are now gone. We haven't seen a Final Fantasy title worth of having that title in close to 10 years.

#25 Posted by Doctorchimp (4069 posts) -
@Lemoncookie01 said:
" There wasn't nothing wrong with it but there was nothing too special about it. "
Final Fantasy XIII suffers from Godfather part III syndrome. 
 
I agree.
#26 Posted by vidiot (2737 posts) -
@Doctorchimp: 
Thanks, I haven't written a giant wordy blog in a very long time because I've been working on my super-secret video project that...
 
....
 
 
...I've said too much.
#27 Posted by NathHaw (2760 posts) -

I liked the game a lot, but the ending was dumb.

#28 Posted by p_p_o_d (543 posts) -

it was too much FFX and not enough FFXII.    
 
half the fun of RPG's are jumping into a world you can explore,  do side quests and stuff.    talk to random NPC's on the street. 
 
XIII didnt have that. 
 
#29 Posted by Cornman89 (1579 posts) -
@Bloviator said:
" I liked the game a lot, but the ending was dumb. "
We did that thing the Gods told us to do but we said we absolutely weren't going to do for the past 40 hours! But every civilian survived, so it's okay! And our crystallized friends came back! Yay!
#30 Posted by MikkaQ (10268 posts) -

Seems like they kinda tripped their way through the development process, and it kinda shows in the final game. It's a pretty incohesive RPG experience, and now that I'm told there were numerous conflicts of interest in design choices, and trying to accomodate different tastes, I can understand why that game had the flaws it did, and how something like that was released as a final product. It looks like Square just got too far ahead of themselves and suffered for it.  
 
My hope is that an important lesson was learned and we get better JRPGs for it. 

#31 Posted by Lautaro (448 posts) -

I thought it was great, but to each their own.

#32 Posted by C2C (855 posts) -

The extreme linearity, lack of immersion, and pacing are the flaws that are apparent to me.  Depending on your tolerance on those things, I can see those flaws being game-breaking. 
 
The story, combat, and design are just fine IMO.  

#33 Posted by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

Aside from the battles against the Summons were kinda tough I found nothing wrong with the game. 
I really liked it and I'm even a huge Final Fantasy fan... Or fanboy if you wanna be all teenagery about it

#34 Posted by LiquidPrince (15842 posts) -
@FancySoapsMan said:
" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "
Pretty much.
#35 Posted by LiquidPrince (15842 posts) -

I take it back. People will complain no matter what, because of the name attached to the game. The biggest failure is taking that criticism to heart and actually accepting that you failed, even though you made a stunning great game loved by millions.

#36 Posted by trophyhunter (5800 posts) -

The fact that it was suppose to come out 2 or 3 years ago.

#37 Posted by uniform (1832 posts) -

I could nitpick the game for several paragraphs, but when all is said and done, I look back and realize it's the only game with achievements/trophies I've completed with a Platinum.

#38 Posted by christ0phe (952 posts) -

Final Fantasy really needs to end

#39 Posted by griefersstolemykeyboard (359 posts) -

It was ok. People expect more out of Final Fantasy hence why people endlessly bitch about this game.
 
I mean compare FF6 and the impact it had to this and how can you not be dissappointed.

#40 Posted by Asian2Go (180 posts) -

I freaking love Final Fantasy Xlll. I even recently went back to it and did some more side mission stuff. Story and characters are meh, but the battle system is damn awesome. 
 
Then again, I don't really have much love for the series. I though 7 was fine, and couldn't stand 10 and 12. So my expectations were pretty low going in.  
 
It's all just an expectation thing. People expect a lot when you slap Final Fantasy on something. Really makes me wonder how this would have been received if it didn't have that Final Fantasy name and legacy behind it. 

#41 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -

FF13 is better than 7, 8 and 10 (I won't say anything about 9 since I haven't played it), I liked 12 better but that's because I was 16 while playing it, so...

#42 Posted by Bucketdeth (8004 posts) -

The problem is the game sucked, the whole system sucked and the linear design sucked.
 
If they went back and looked at how they made FF3 or FF7 they should be ashamed. They just need to create a beautiful huge world with an awesome set of characters and character development with the story's they used to tell.
 
I really miss when Square was a company I had easily on my top 5, they are now easily below the 20 mark now.

#43 Posted by Grissefar (2842 posts) -

I don't know. It was just worse than the sum of its parts. A little more complex and difficult combat and a better progression/xp/item system would have helped.

#44 Posted by Animasta (14648 posts) -
@Grissefar said:
" I don't know. It was just worse than the sum of its parts. A little more complex and difficult combat and a better progression/xp/item system would have helped. "
how far did you get? Pulse does not fuck around with you.
#45 Posted by Grissefar (2842 posts) -
@Laketown said:
" @Grissefar said:
" I don't know. It was just worse than the sum of its parts. A little more complex and difficult combat and a better progression/xp/item system would have helped. "
how far did you get? Pulse does not fuck around with you. "
I've done all the quests and killed all but the biggest toise thingy. In the story the only tactic I needed was: buff, debuff, kill. Some of the quest monsters were pretty interesting. The final arena boss, the Neochu, the Gigantuar, the last quest boss and the two immune spellcasters come to mind. Those were a lot better than anything in the story. Some of them can be overcome by grinding or cheap tactics, like in most rpg's I guess.
#46 Posted by Belmont_Shadow (174 posts) -

the linearity and god awful story. The game itself along with the combat was good, in fact the last 2 chapters including post game is quality. But the first 20 hours needed a lot of pacing work and progression edits.

#47 Posted by Jasta (2217 posts) -

I loved it, don't know why there was so much hate.

#48 Posted by phantomzxro (1565 posts) -

I feel in the end it was because the game was rushed and having to put this on ps3 and xbox360 (for the first time) was not an easy task, when they had other projects in the works. To the game itself i feel the story pacing was off, the characters were hit or miss, and they left out a part of my rpg game and added pointless grind quest to replace it. The battle was fun at first when you got the hang of it but after awhile it felt every battle was drawn out for no problem but to add time on the clock.

#49 Posted by Catolf (2653 posts) -
@Tarsier said:
" same bs over and over again. JRPG style is dated. "
SMT waves at you.
 
I liked FF3 for what it was and won't get on it for what it wasn't. I've always had a hard time with normal FF's (I'm going to try 7 eventually and see how that goes) so both this and 12 and any tactical ones are right up my alley.. but it's me, I don't get the hate, it was an experiment, if you don't allow for experimentation you will see no growth. Just saying.
#50 Posted by Dominoes (36 posts) -

Have not finished it yet, 20 hours or so in, but thus far I've found it to be too linear and that the linear "leveling system" detracts from the great game-play. I think they are taking the series in a good direction combat wise and I suppose game-play in general, but allow for more freedom. Don't shove 20 or so hours of story before we get to decide what we want to do. Good game so far.

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