Where do you think Square went wrong with FFXIII?

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#51 Edited by President_Barackbar (3474 posts) -

What did they do wrong? They made 6 more games after FFVI and decided to release another one.

#52 Posted by gla55jAw (2698 posts) -
@President_Barackbar said:
" What did they do wrong? They made 6 more games after FFVI and decided to release another one. "
BURN.
#53 Posted by ptys (1992 posts) -

The idea of an RPG is almost create your own adventure. This thing was like taking a ride at an amusement park, get off when your told. I liked Lightning as a lead but the rest was just on rails.

#54 Posted by Milkman (17348 posts) -
@Catolf said:
" @Tarsier said:
" same bs over and over again. JRPG style is dated. "
SMT waves at you. 
I have no interest in getting into the whole "JRPGs are dead" argument but just stating one JRPG series that doesn't use all those dated mechanics doesn't prove anything. The statement still applies to the majority of the genre. 
 
Besides, SMT has it's fair share of dated game mechanics, anyway. 
Online
#55 Posted by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

I actually had alot of fun playing the game. I actually bought into the critism then I rented the game because of the overall lowered score. Then it turns out it was super fun so I bought it right afterwards wasting a ton of cash on it. I think it's wrpg players hating on the jrpg formula. Well I wish it had more towns and stuff to explore, that would of been alot better. Also make it less linear, it feels like the whole level is one big string path you follow. Make the levels bigger like the later levels when things open up.

#56 Edited by Catolf (2653 posts) -
@Milkman said:

" @Catolf said:

" @Tarsier said:
" same bs over and over again. JRPG style is dated. "
SMT waves at you. 
I have no interest in getting into the whole "JRPGs are dead" argument but just stating one JRPG series that doesn't use all those dated mechanics doesn't prove anything. The statement still applies to the majority of the genre.  Besides, SMT has it's fair share of dated game mechanics, anyway.  "
He said dated, not dead.
 
As does every FPS Platforming RPG and ect ect ect... We can go in circles.
 
SMT
Resonance of Fate
Valkeria Chronicles
 
Just because the majority is shit (same could be said for most TV and Anime out there) dosen't mean that the few should be overlooked. The majority of FPS, plat formers and ect are crap, but there are some that can come out and can be awesome. It can be said for both sides. Just because some old mechanics are used it wasn't used in a bad way.
#57 Posted by Marcsman (3296 posts) -

It was kinda tedious until Chapter 11. Then it became the Final I knew and loved. However there is just no excusefor Hope, worst character since Cait Sith.
#58 Posted by MormonWarrior (2668 posts) -
@FancySoapsMan said:
" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "
Now, I don't have a PS3 so I'm not going to play FF XIII, but I haven't liked the Final Fantasy series from X on...it just seems like the PlayStation era was the end of the best of JRPGs. They just haven't figured out what to do to stay with the times. Super Mario Galaxy proved that platformers aren't dead, and I think it' s just a matter of time before some developer shows what JRPGs are really about. I would really like that.  Eternal Sonata/Lost Odyssey/Tales of Vesperia/Final Fantasy XIII/Blue Dragon have all been okay, but nowhere near Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy of old...
#59 Posted by Bucketdeth (8048 posts) -
@Cornman89 said:
" @FancySoapsMan said:

" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "

This. It's far from a perfect game, but FFXIII was still an interesting little experiment, and I'd much rather have that than some tired retread of the series's glory days.  Very interesting read, incidentally. Thanks. I should check out Gamasutra more often. "
Fanboys of what? When FF was actually a series to respect? FFXIII is a linear shit slide of donkey dick's that seems to want you to fight your way through 10-15 mobs to the next cutscene, rinse and repeat.
#60 Posted by cky71321 (14 posts) -

I think it's safe to say for some of us that we're to the point in our gaming lives where the story suddenly takes a high priority in RPGs - and this is what causes these newer Final Fantasy games to falter in our minds. FFX, FFXII and FFXIII are all guilty of this - each game seemed to put a lot more emphasis on combat systems rather than the story itself. XIII also seems to take a step back from what X and XII did before it - X gave us a more realistic world without the use of an overworld map, and it worked out good for the most part. XII expanded on this by making some of its areas absolutely massive - you actually felt like you were exploring something between towns, cities, dungeons, etc. XIII just...loses that feeling when you realize you've been in hallways for most of the game. The combat in the game is fine, but the strategy doesn't seem to vary much in most cases (buff up, debuff boss, kill it), which doesn't help considering combat in the series seemed to peak right at FFX. In the case of FFX and FFXII, the combat is a nice distraction from the story - can't really say the same for FFXIII.

#61 Posted by Brendan (8173 posts) -

It was a good game, but it did lag in several spots.  And it had horrible pacing.
#62 Posted by CharleyTony (924 posts) -

basically , they changed a lot of things that make Final Fantasy games different. Usually they try something new and keep everything else the same so people can feel at home with the game and learn that new thing. 
FF13 feels like a total departure ( to me at least). It has kept elements that bring nostalgia and make it "looks like a FF game", but everything else is so different, the way the story progressed, the way it plays, etc. 
 
They went on to make a revolution when an evolution of the FF12 formula would have been great ( a game that was revolutionary compared to FF10). As the FF franchise is always set in a different universe (most of the time), you need to have something that links those games together. In the case of all the FF games from 1 to 10, those links were not only having chocobos, it was the battle system, random battles, not too linear story, exploration, involving narrative, tons with shops, ... 
 
I still do not get how Square Enix decided that all those things, that their fans loved and that made their company such a huge success, could be flushed down the toilet without collateral damage to their franchise. 
 
 If they go back to a more traditional type of FF game in the future, I feel like FF13 will be regarded as a fluke, or error in the franchise as a whole. 

#63 Posted by RYNO9881 (625 posts) -
@Video_Game_King: "Summon summon summon"? 
 
Summoning was useless in this game. Except when you wanted to clear all your debuffs.
#64 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -
@FancySoapsMan said:
" I don't think they did anything wrong. It was just that the fanboys were determined to hate it no matter what. "
If it were a good game, it would have been loved and accepted.  Look at games like Dissidia, which was released fairly recently and loved by the fanboys.
It was even released for BOTH the 360 and PS3, so it's not even like you fall back on the console wars here.
 
The game was a failure, not because of the trolls or fanboys.. but because it was a bad game.
#65 Posted by Andrela (622 posts) -

I liked it but didn't enjoy the way that the gameworld was basically a straight line and so was character skill levelling

#66 Posted by Toms115 (2317 posts) -

my 360 died before i could finish it but, considering that this is the team that made ffx, i thought the story was a little weak, at least up to the point i got to.

#67 Posted by StartAndPause (113 posts) -

My only complaint was the pacing of the game aside from that I liked it.

#68 Posted by damswedon (3202 posts) -

The game carrying on after the airship.

#69 Posted by DukeTogo (1504 posts) -

Square went wrong long before they got to XIII.

#70 Posted by Mesoian (1574 posts) -

Well for one, they could have started with telling the story way better than they did. 
 
Relying on load screens and a glossary to explain who major factions are and what their motives are is PISS POOR. 13 has some of the worst storytelling I've ever seen in any entertainment medium.

#71 Posted by Lazyaza (2212 posts) -

From what I learned from multiple sources it came down to super linearity, bland characters, crap story and gameplay that just wasn't implemented anywhere near as well as it could have been.   
I think Square just got so caught up in technology, in freaking pretty visuals that it resulted in neglect of everything else.  

#72 Posted by JoMate (238 posts) -

for me it was the fact that the whole game was very linear (something i did not expected) and when I finally got used to that it would all of the sudden throw you on a plain field whit a few stupid missions, and when you try to ignore those and advance the story you notice that the game is so hard that you just have to grind, thats where I threw the game out of the window... God I still want to know how the story ends so badly! :(

#73 Posted by Mesoian (1574 posts) -
@JoMate: Trust me, you are not missing anything. The ending of this game is so contrived and forced that it makes Unlimited Saga look like Tolstov
#74 Posted by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
@RYNO9881: 
 
That's the problem I was pointing out: summons were useless. When are we gonna get another game where summons actually have some purpose in battle? What happened to the days of FF10, if my memory is good enough?
#75 Posted by Fascism (148 posts) -

I thought I had fun playing it. Guess I was wrong and it was actually a horrible game. :( Dont I feel stupid now.

#76 Posted by OppressiveStink (357 posts) -

Well, first off, I must say that Square - Enix is floating mostly on their own legacy.  We haven't seen many quality titles from SE that aren't remakes and re-releases(not taking Eidos into consideration.)  In fact, my most looked-forward-to game by them is the new Tactics Ogre, which happens to be a remake.
 
As a fan of JRPGs, I've become a bit more discerning in my taste.  No longer will a run-of-the-mill RPG whet my whistle when I wish to grind levels.
 
So when I make this comment on FF13, please realize it's my opinion on it and take it as such.
 
These are the reasons that I believe Final Fantasy 13 is an average JRPG, which makes it a below-average video game.
 
1) Too linear world design.
Square Enix said in an interview that they played CoD in an attempt to see what western audiences wanted in a video game.  What did they pull out from that play testing?  Extremely linear levels.  This shows me something about the SE development team.  They didn't understand what makes the series popular isn't it's linear levels, but it's emergent gameplay.  You can't have emergent gameplay when the focus is on driving menus, so you have to focus on giving your game a life of it's own.  This includes the characters, world design and monsters.
 
2) Too clean characters.
Square-Enix can sure make a beautiful character model, but it suffers from plastic doll syndrome.  The characters feel more airbrushed than an overweight cosplayer, they're feel too static, not realistic at all.  Perhaps it had something to do with the clothing tie-ins but it really smacks of some kinda design-by-marketing endeavor.
 
3) Unrelatable Characters and weak plot
 One of the Final Fantasy's major strengths had always been it's characterization and plot.  FF13's characters come off as flat and souless.  One-dimensional characters in an bare bones Star Wars plot that never manages to make it personal or bring it home.  The story of Shadow in FF6, even though he spends the least time with you of any other character besides GoGo and Umaro, is more fleshed-out story than the entirety of FF13.

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