why do people hate Final Fantasy 13?

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#1 Posted by stoodspoon (649 posts) -

I mean no one complained about FF10 being linear. so why are people complaining about FF13 being linear? Besides it no disaster like FF14. and it has the best combat system in any recent JRPG.

#2 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

Coming from Final Fantasy XII International Zodiac Job System...you'd figure Square learned how to make a modernized JRPG. 
 
They didn't.  Nomura's game is the one you want, not this one.

#3 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

A thread about this was made right when the game was released dude. 

#4 Edited by stoodspoon (649 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man: Sorry i did not know ,can a moderator  lock this  topic now
#5 Posted by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

I think the linearity was more of a problem in XIII than it was in X, coupled with a lot of other problems it had..  Poor gameplay mechanics, boring characters, terrible writing.  Coming off the back of things like Mass Effect 2, it's flaws were very apparant.  Then again, I hated Final Fantasy X at least as much as XIII. 
 
XII was a much better example of a modern JRPG.  Hopefully we see an HD release of it on the PS3.
#6 Posted by clubsandwich (3795 posts) -

I can't see why people hated it, I thought it was an awesome game.

#7 Posted by uniform (1836 posts) -

People who hate have the loudest voices. Apparently people also hate 12, X-2, 7, and 8. The others range from awesome! (10), to that was ok (9). Then there's the 8-16 bit games which no one talks about because omg too old.

#8 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@uniform said:
"  X-2"
X-2 doesn't exist, there's no such thing so stop spreading that shit around.   
 
I also play the SNES games on my GBA or PSP a lot, and just started to do so again for the holidays.  >.>
#9 Posted by HitmanAgent47 (8576 posts) -

Haters gonna hate. Perhaps the rpg genre moved so much foward from linear gameplay, alot of reviewers didn't like it. I rented the game because of their reviews, then I bought it right afterwards because I like the game.

#10 Posted by ShiftyMagician (2130 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:
" @uniform said:
"  X-2"
X-2 doesn't exist, there's no such thing so stop spreading that shit around."
I could just imagine the board meeting and what was said to greenlight it.
 
"Yo guys?"
"Yes what is it?"
" Dress spheres."
"Done.  Announce X-2!!"
#11 Posted by CitizenKane (10507 posts) -
#12 Posted by KingBroly (1645 posts) -

Hope 
Too linear 
Hope 
Terrible, non-coherent story 
Hope 
Very Easy 
Did I mention Hope yet?

#13 Posted by XenoNick (1450 posts) -
@KingBroly said:
" Hope 
Too linear 
Hope 
Terrible, non-coherent story 
Hope 
Very Easy 
Did I mention Hope yet? "
That about sums it up. Only thing I liked was the combat system to be honest
#14 Edited by luce (4045 posts) -

I loved the battle system and graphics. The only thing I really had a problem with was the story and characters (which is pretty much a problem in the series as a whole IMO. Though I do think they were especially bad in this game) 
 
But I also really like FFXII so what do I know

#15 Posted by gamefreak9 (2370 posts) -
@stoodspoon:  
Since ff10 was on ps2, lots of people who played it had not played the older ones, since PS2 reached new markets, so there were not as many people complaining, but generally all the people i know who were ff veterans did complain... on the other hand i did not mind the game being linear as long as it opened up at some point.  
 
However my complaint in FF13 was not linearity at all, how i usually play ff games, which is the most efficient way to do it is that i breeze through the main story and at the last point of no return of the game i start exploring and doing all the side quests, getting all the weopons(unless the ultimate one was available before hand), and grind levels, FF13 just made my job easier.  
 My main complaint about it was that once it did open up there was like no town exploration, i wanted to explore towns and talk to people, and solve their problems, meet weird sages, kids, collect cards or do weird challenges, instead the side quests system has been brought down to, KILL thing number 1, and thing number 2, and 3, and 4, 56789 up to like 100? Even though ff12 had shitty characters, i think it did that better, where you had to go to stores in every town to buy your magic, or items, gave you incentive to explore, + the head hunter system they had was a much cooler way to do everything. Felt more rewarding. 
#16 Edited by EpicSteve (6490 posts) -

The linearity is more obvious in FFXIII, and games have evolved dramatically since FFX. Designed that was acceptable in the early PS2 generation doesn't meet 2010 standards. Also, it doesn't help that it takes hours for FFXIII to really get started.

#17 Posted by Chop (1999 posts) -
@KaosAngel: X-2 is the best fucking one, I don't care what anyone says! 
 
It has the best battle system in the series by a long shot and the job system is the best one ever seen in a jrpg. Also it was the first FF to have scene skip, so it's not like you're forced to watch the terrible stuff. 
#18 Posted by SuperfluousMoniker (2910 posts) -

FF10 was linear, but 13 gives new meaning to the word. In 10 you had stuff to break it up; towns, puzzles, sidequests. 13 had none of those things until twenty hours in. Poor pacing doesn't even begin to describe it.

#19 Posted by Tebbit (4472 posts) -

I like Final Fantasy XIII an awful lot. Metacritic agrees with me, so regardless of how I feel about aggregate scoring systems, it's still a win! 
 
The haters can suck it. Sure, there are plenty of things wrong with the game (the primary ones being Hope and Vanille) but even they stop being a pain in the ass when they really really need to. Everything else was really well done. Apart from the occasional "We are heroes, to save the world and fight for justice!!" stull, which is really hokey, the writing was really good and the storyline drove the story towards a strong and effective ending. The pacing is obviously what trips some people up. My recommendation: If you don't like the pacing of Final Fantasy XIII, don't play JRPGs. Ever.

#20 Posted by uniform (1836 posts) -
@Chop said:
" @KaosAngel: X-2 is the best fucking one, I don't care what anyone says!  It has the best battle system in the series by a long shot and the job system is the best one ever seen in a jrpg. Also it was the first FF to have scene skip, so it's not like you're forced to watch the terrible stuff.  "
Glad you were the first to admit it. It just might contain the best battle system in a FF to date. I think you have to embrace the silliness to appreciate it. I found it to be a fun overall experience. I want more protagonists dressed in oversized moogle suits!
#21 Posted by Mesoian (1574 posts) -
@stoodspoon said:
" I mean no one complained about FF10 being linear. so why are people complaining about FF13 being linear? Besides it no disaster like FF14. and it has the best combat system in any recent JRPG. "
EVERYONE complained about FF10 being linear. They simply stopped when the game opened up. Because eventually, it does open up. 
 
FF13 never opens up though. The one area towards the end is big and vast but in the end is simply one area with more hallways branching off of it then previously.
 
The reason I hate FF13 so much is because it does such a terrible job telling the story it wants to tell. Major characters, major events, social classifications, effects of wide spread curses, none of it is explained well, often forcing you to have to go into the codex and look all the stuff up. It's fine in a game like, oh say, Mass Effect because in the end the stuff in the codex isn't that important. But imagine playing Mass Effect and never being told why Sauren wants to join with the Reapers. It would be an infuriating plothole. 
 
And that's what FF13 is for the most part. A series of infuriating plot holes.
#22 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@Mesoian: Technically they explain that in the scripture in the menu.  Just a heads up.
#23 Posted by Faint (833 posts) -

because it's not good. i defended it to the end before its english release, but it really did turn out to be a steaming pile of poo. square-enix's downfall as one of the leading game developers in the world is testament to the coined term "japanese game design is dead". unfortunately i think it's true. ever since ff11 was paid online, square lost the plot with the series.

#24 Posted by Mesoian (1574 posts) -
@KaosAngel said:
" @Mesoian: Technically they explain that in the scripture in the menu.  Just a heads up. "
Yes, which is AWFUL. The motive and intent of the MAIN ANTAGONIST is something that you should know first and foremost. Even if it's a red herring, you should know why the villian is doing what he's doing so you feel emotionally invested in stopping him. 
 
This NEVER happens in FF13. The only time you figure out why he's doing what he's doing is 2 minutes before the ending cutscene is about to trigger. 
 
But even more than that, the game never defines the things that are important. La'Cie, Fal'Cie, Cocoon, The planet, no real information is given to you as you're playing the game. They mention it all a lot but never tells you what it is. While playing, it felt like they were saving it all for a big reveal where the individual definitions of the world's curses gets turned on their head and everything they knew was wrong...but that doesn't happen. In the end, they just did a really horrible job of explaining what those things were. That's sloppy storytelling. If you have to look in a glossary to figure out who the enemies are and why they're attacking you, your story is not written well.
#25 Posted by Hyuzen (459 posts) -

I liked XIII up until about half way through when you discovered what your focus was. The time spent on pulse was fun, especially with combat but thats when the story started going down the crapper, up until then i was really invested in the characters story, once their dialogue basically devolved into cheesy one liners about hope and making your own destiny while the characters moved towards the very location they wanted to avoid i got pretty sick of it

#26 Posted by SuperfluousMoniker (2910 posts) -
@Tebbit said:
 My recommendation: If you don't like the pacing of Final Fantasy XIII, don't play JRPGs. Ever. "
That's the thing though: I like JRPGs. It's among my favorite genres, in fact. I like Dragon Quest, Earthbound, Lufia, almost every other Final Fantasy, and more. Yet I hated FF13.
#27 Posted by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -
@SuperfluousMoniker said:
" @Tebbit said:
 My recommendation: If you don't like the pacing of Final Fantasy XIII, don't play JRPGs. Ever. "
That's the thing though: I like JRPGs. It's among my favorite genres, in fact. I like Dragon Quest, Earthbound, Lufia, almost every other Final Fantasy, and more. Yet I hated FF13. "
The truth is, FF13 is a poor representation of the JRPG to newcomers...and the Halo Generation that had their JRPG cherries popped with FF13 were in for a poor treat.  Last time it was Final Fantasy X, before that it was Final Fantasy VII, and before that it was Final Fantasy I or IV.   
 
All the other FF games did a far better job showcasing JRPGs for first timers.
#28 Posted by Tebbit (4472 posts) -
@SuperfluousMoniker: Yikes. Maybe I'm the crazy one! Every time people mention the numerous flaws in the game, I agree with them, but my only counter is that they really didn't bother me enough to ruin the entire experience. And I really liked the ending, I thought it was one of the better Final Fantasy ending sequences.
#29 Posted by Burns098356GX (1366 posts) -

2 things make a FF game for me. Plot and character development. 13 just didnt have that, not like past FFs.
13 was able to cram in more annoying characters then past games, like 10 had that blond pigtailed chick, where 13 had that kid, red head pigtails squeaky voice, Sahz was kind of annoying too, and Snow and his god awful cheesy. They simply just dont make those games like they used to, and they've refused to update their mechanics to anything modern.

#30 Posted by TheDoubleJ (204 posts) -

ridiclulously hard boss battles, bland charcters and the part were you had to grind 
but it also looked great had a decent ending and wasn't terrible

#31 Posted by John1912 (1903 posts) -

Well, the GOD AWFUL story that was nothing more then random tangents strung together, combined with the shitty chars/summons really made the game worthless.  Seriously, its as if the game got sent to editing, and 3/4 of the story was cut with no attempt to connect the holes.  The game actually made me angry.

#32 Posted by animathias (1190 posts) -

I don't mind linearity in my JRPGs at all. I'd rather they closed off all paths and told me a brilliant story with some awesome combat. Sadly, FFXIII delivered neither of those. I played maybe 15-20 hours before I simply got bored of it, and up to that point the combat was: "Hit auto-battle, switch the team's jobs to something more appropriate. Then hit auto-battle, and switch the team's job's to something more appropriate." Even more than FFXII (which I really enjoyed) it destroyed the Final Fantasy battle system I had come to love. FF Combat for me is scrolling through a menu and picking the best spell or ability for the situation at hand, not letting an auto-battle button pick it for me then just showing me a flashy animation. If you tried to be more selective, you were given a very poor ranking after every battle.

On top of that, I couldn't stand some of the characters, mainly Hope. 15 hours in he's still effing moping about his mother and getting all angry at Snow. I don't even care how that storyline wraps up, I just wanted to slap the kid across the face. I think that's a problem since I've dealt with some pretty cheesy characters in the other FF games and in this one, I just wanted him to shut up or die.

I wish I had the patience to finish the game. The world intrigued me, the story seemed alright, and some of the characters were interesting. I just grew completely disinterested, especially when I'd load it up and be treated to McEmo for 45 minutes.

#33 Posted by bhhawks78 (1206 posts) -

1.  Main character is literally cloud with tits and pink hair 
2.  The dialogue is awful 
3.  The story in general is a disaster 
 
That's not even including how the game cockblocks you for literally 20-30 hours with nonsensical handholding.  Or the fact it's more linear than a fucking COD game.

#34 Posted by ch13696 (4582 posts) -

Linearity or open world. To me, it doesn't even matter because either way we're trying to accomplish 2 different things... 
 
-The story 
-Beat the fuck out of enemies 
 
So why would an open world matter? You're trying to get from one point to another. The only difference in the open world is that you have to find out where to go. Can anyone else tell me what else there's supposed to be that you're missing out from on open world? I guess not.

#35 Posted by MikkaQ (10317 posts) -

It's just pooly and awkwardly paced, like the developers realized they had a 20 hour game that they wanted to stretch over many more hours.

#36 Posted by Hailinel (25179 posts) -
@The_Laughing_Man said:
" A thread about this was made right when the game was released dude.  "
And if he were to respond to that old thread, he would get bitched at for necro posting.
#37 Posted by Hizang (8532 posts) -

Best combat? No way, all you do is close youir eyes and hit X...
#38 Posted by Jeust (10737 posts) -

A bit off topic but I don't think ever saw so many people together praising XII. It warms my heart. :p

#39 Posted by BibleDoctor (698 posts) -

FFXIII was my first Final Fantasy game, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. Never understood all the negativity surrounding it, I can see why the dialogue and some of the interactions in the game might be a bit awkward to people who aren't Japanese (from Japan not of asian heritage). But that can't be enough to ruin the entire thing, take whatever I say with a grain of salt though I live under a rock with an earthworm named Jim.

#40 Edited by Vorbis (2750 posts) -
@uniform said:

" @Chop said:

" @KaosAngel: X-2 is the best fucking one, I don't care what anyone says!  It has the best battle system in the series by a long shot and the job system is the best one ever seen in a jrpg. Also it was the first FF to have scene skip, so it's not like you're forced to watch the terrible stuff.  "

Glad you were the first to admit it. It just might contain the best battle system in a FF to date. I think you have to embrace the silliness to appreciate it. I found it to be a fun overall experience. I want more protagonists dressed in oversized moogle suits! "
You're not alone, alot of people feel the X-2 combat system was the best, me included. The game just required you not to take it too seriously to enjoy it, some of it was damn silly though.
 
As to FFXIII it was alright, yeah the first 20hours were abit slow but it was still decent. Ironically the game got better after you finished it and went back to the open areas. Not the worst FF in my eyes at least. Although I do congratulate them for finally finding someone more annoying than Vaan, yes Hope, I mean you.
#41 Posted by lucas_kelly (769 posts) -

Sure the game has some good aspects, but the bad definitely out-weigh the good.

#42 Posted by Lukeweizer (2706 posts) -
@stoodspoon said:
" I mean no one complained about FF10 being linear. so why are people complaining about FF13 being linear? Besides it no disaster like FF14. and it has the best combat system in any recent JRPG. "
Even though you've been on a thread-making-tirade the last couple days, I actually agree with you. Haven't played the game yet, but I think the same thing. The way people describe 13, is exactly what 10 was like. Except the combat. Maybe that's the deal breaker. I'll find out when I bother to open the game.
#43 Posted by Shadow (4981 posts) -

Final Fantasy 13 is by far the best game in the history of the franchise.

#44 Edited by WinterSnowblind (7617 posts) -

@Vorbis said:

 Ironically the game got better after you finished it and went back to the open areas. Not the worst FF in my eyes at least. Although I do congratulate them for finally finding someone more annoying than Vaan, yes Hope, I mean you. "

 
At least he wasn't the main character, but I honestly don't understand Japan's obsession with young characters like this.  Completely unlikable on every level and he played much too big a part in the game.  The west learned their lesson after Wesley Crusher.

@animathias:


The battle system was definitely one of the bigger problems.  Other JRPG's have proved the turn based system can still work, including FFX, which just used a very fast version of the classic battle system and worked fine.  They either need to go back to that, or go all out and turn it into an action based system like Kingdom Hearts.  The issuing commands thing just doesn't work, in my opinion.

 


 

#45 Posted by Yummylee (22040 posts) -

Never played it, never will. I haven't enjoyed a FF post IX personally and XIII doesn't look to change that. 
 
I'm oddly interested towards XIII Versus, though.. 

#46 Posted by IBurningStar (2184 posts) -

1. Horrible story telling. The creators hyped up the story so much and how it was a major focal point of the game during its development, so you would think that they would at least try to tell the thing. Doing away with any and all exposition and omitting large portions of VITAL information is a major misstep. Instead of working this into the narrative they give it to you in a series of text files that are just part of the game's menu. It isn't even integrated into the world.  

2. Bad characters. When I say bad I mean, like, the cast of Jersey Shore are more endearing and likable. The only exception to this was Sazh, because he was the only character that I would be comfortable saying was dynamic. Everyone else was either just flat or dynamic in the sense that they were annoying in so many different ways, and on so many different levels, that it was just absurd. It is like they consulted George Lucas for character ideas, based solely on his success on finding a way to make people finally hate Star Wars. 

3. It was a never ending hallway. The problem with a linear RPG like this is that RPGs aren't good at hiding linearity. With something like Uncharted this doesn't become as great of an issue, because while you are having your shootouts with enemies you are also advancing forward at the same time. Then you have the terrain traversal stuff. True, you can only jump from specific ledge to another very specific ledge, but the idea that you are climbing across this "hallway" is hidden by the fact that you are actively using one of the game's key mechanics. Simply pushing the joystick up isn't as involving and exciting. In FFXIII you run forward until you see an enemy, and then you say, "I am going to fight that next." You see it coming and know exactly what you are getting into. So you fight it, win, and proceed to run forward some more. Rinse and repeat. The fact that these two things never take place at the same time and are separate aspects of the game quickly presents you with a pattern very early on. Run, fight, run, fight, run, etc. Once you become actively aware of this pattern, the game becomes repetitive and tedious.  

4. The battle system. A lot of people will defend this as being the only shining point in the entire game. I can understand that and can see where they are coming from. But to me all the switching paradigm stuff kind of felt like busy work. I also wasn't a fan of how at times changing paradigms would favor animation of practicality.

#47 Edited by Soap (3607 posts) -

I think Final Fantasy X can be forgiven its linearity  because it at least made sense to the player from the beginning. The first 10 to 15 hours of Final Fantasy XII contain some of the worst dialogue written in any medium ever. They talk in what can only be described as a fucking coded language and they don't bother to let you in on what these things mean for a long time. 
 
Sure when you get past that it gets better, but the damage for me was already done when I had no idea what was happening or why, and I was simply running down a corridor pressing X every 5 to 6 seconds to win. 
 
Oh, plus FFX actually had a battle system, rather than an interactive DVD menu....just saying 
 
But don't get me wrong, I don't hate entirely on FFXIII, the story actually ends up being ok as the game goes on, it looks stunning, simply stunning and the soundtrack is one of the best in years. It's just a shame the gameplay can't back that up. 

#48 Posted by MythDarK (552 posts) -

"Hate"?
#49 Posted by Simulacrum (462 posts) -

Maybe I'm just easily amused, but I thought XIII was a lot of fun.

#50 Posted by CL60 (16906 posts) -

I dunno, but it really isn't that bad. It's quite good.

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