Worst First Impression EVER!

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#1 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

So, I'm trying out the open beta...

 
Set-up an account. Downloaded the installer. Fixed up the client. Created a character. Played a supershort tutorial on a boat killing a few jelly fish. Get thrown off in a huge town. Take on a quest from some dude that's introduced in a cut-scene. Wander around aimlessly talking to every NPC (no voice-overs!). Find the exit to the questing area after a long while. Walk up to a monster at the designated beginner questhub. Get killed. Stay dead. I'm not prompted to the next step. I'm dead, lying on the ground. Forever. Asking strangers for advice. No answer. Chatting functionality so unwieldy, nobody chats in this game.
 
Anyways. This game suffers from horrible pacing and tutorial structure (there really ain't much of a tutorial there and well, as for pacing, you're dropped off in one of the capital cities without a clue what's going on and nothing to do in terms of quests). Horrid UI - especially the chat window is the worst piece of crap and lacks all modern functionality. Extremely insular social design (there's only /tell and /say - no general channels at all, nobody actually chats at all). Unwieldy camera with a mind of it's own.
 
The hour or so I spent with the game I was mostly shouting at the screen in disbelieve. Never have I played a more clunky game. Never before have I seen as much ignorance in a major MMORPG developement in terms of functionality and responsiveness. FF XIV Open Beta is the worst MMORPG Experience I've had in my life. Literally everything is so much worse than anything else out there. It's an unwieldy blocky piece of ignorant gamedesign that can't stand up to any of its competitors.  It's just that bad. By hour one, I'm usually already hooked on the avarage MMORPG. Did a couple of nice questlines. Got level-ups and loot and new skills. Here, I just wandered around aimlessly in a huge city. Read a shit-ton of useless fluff. Got one quest. Fought one monster looking like a plant vagina. Got killed and stayed dead forever.
 
That said. I'm gonna try and figure out how to fucking reclaim my fucking life. Wispers didn't help, because people don't know how to fucking make a /tell. The internet doesn't have a clue. I must be stupid. Or I ran into some kind of bug that didn't prompt me to the next step after death - like a corpserun or a menu pop-up or a resurrection point. This shit is messed up beyond belief. Also - who in his right mind dares to come out with a brandnew MMORPG in 2010 without full voiceovers? That's just fucking retarded. The competition will eat you alive.
 
 
P.S. the fucking client updater playing shitty tunes in a loop for hours on end doesn't help either. Nor does any of the horrid candy JRPG music in the 'effin game. It's like taking a candy cone and driving through my tympanic membrane.
#2 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Hell - I finally figured it out. I had to go into the options menu and select 'Return' to revive and get beamed back into town.
 
Now, how bad must a gamedesigner be to not tell me such a thing as I die the first time? It makes no fucking sense. These developers have no fucking clue of what they're doing.

#3 Posted by ComradeKritstov (693 posts) -

Wait -- you have to go into the options menu to revive yourself? What?!

#4 Posted by ImmortalSaiyan (4676 posts) -

Perhaps square should stick to single player games.
#5 Edited by SteamPunkJin (1286 posts) -

Beta game is in Beta. Get over it. 
FFXI was never the friendliest MMO and FFXIV will only slightly improve that. WoW is waiting for you.
 
It's the same shit every day from people who never played XI in the first place (cause it wasn't WoW) and are at a loss when it comes to XIV. All my friends from XI have been enjoying the Beta a great deal, and they honestly can't know much more than any other Beta tester. What kills me is, all you folks bitching about the game that's in Beta, KEEP playing it and keep expecting the Beta to be worlds different the next day. It's an MMO - by it's very nature it's ever-evolving, the Beta may lack a lot of polish and how close the release is doesn't matter, the game will continue to change for years.  

#6 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@SteamPunkJin: 
 
I don't think the general design philosophy will ever change as dramatically as it would be needed for me to actually enjoy any of this game. Also - the 'it's a BETA' comment is somewhat naive. It's the OPEN BETA 2 weeks before the actual realease. It's a STRESS TEST. Not one single core aspect of the gameplay and mechanics will change between now and then.
 
Look. The game could be just as it is and have a decent chat interface. It could have more direct controls without a painful input delay and an extreme disconnect beween me and my character. It could have a way better structured tutotrial that actually introduces new players like me to the experience and be completely true to Final Fantasy XI. It's got none of that.
 
The whole game reeks of willful ignorance on behalf of the developers at SquareEnix. Everything is unwieldly and blocky and unresponsive and suffers from unacceptable input delay. A far cry from industry standards set by countless MMOs currently on the market and their active modding communities. They could stay true to all their core design philosophy (like being extremely solo-unfriendly - fighting with a single starting zone rat for your life over the course of a multiple minutes isn't uncommon. Expect to be likely killed by the next critter too.) and still meet modern standards in terms of UI functionality and pacing and structure and presentation and story and... and... and...
 
To me, FF XIV Open Beta is the worst MMORPG experience I ever had and I played most major releases of the last 6 years extensively. I have deleted it from my harddrive and this is the last time I'll ever think of this game. It's dead to me with absolutely no chance of redemption. It's outlandish design philosophy coupled with the horrible execution can't be redeemed. This thing shall burn in hell for all I care. I regret every minute I spent on it today. So very much. I cannot understand Square/Enix apologizers on this one. It's just plain bad. Through and through. You suffer from Stockholm Syndrome at best.
#7 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Dude - it's a group focused MMORPG that doesn't even get chatting right. There isn't even a general chat channel. How bad can a gamedesigner be? It's fucking beyond me.
 
The entire fucking dev team and their Q&A team should be ashamed of their lack of common sense.
 
Or how about something a bit more modern and up-to-date? Like a auto-grouping function for ease of teamplay? Anything that'd actually support their overall design direction?

#8 Posted by Diamond (8634 posts) -
@bergi27:  You the same dude that registered the last time someone created a thread pointing out how crappy FF14 beta is?  Yes.
 
But yea Seppli, the game shouldn't even be sold the way it is now.  It needs at least a few more months until they get rid of some of these critical bugs.  Maybe in a few years the game will actually become decent, but Square Enix won't be finding the same amount of subscribers they enjoyed with FF11.
#9 Posted by VicRattlehead (1398 posts) -
@Seppli:  ohhh so you select return... i just deleted my character and started again rofl... fail
#10 Edited by BunkerBuster (1042 posts) -
@Seppli: Are you making sure to post this at the Sqeenix site? It is after all a beta and they need to hear the problems the game is having. Bitching about it on Giantbomb wont help the game at all.
 
On a side note, are people really this surprised that Square can't make games in the 21st century? They basically take a franchise and remake it every single year and it's almost always bought in the millions. Why would they ever need to try harder if they have so many fans that just keep putting up with it year after year. Was there ever a though that this could ever be good after the first one back in 2002?
#11 Posted by Geno (6477 posts) -

At this point I think a beta of any game is more of a "preview" than a legit testing phase. Most of the bug-squashing and polishing should have been done beforehand. If they are coming in less than a month from launch with TONS of game-killing bugs and poor design decisions as I've heard from several accounts already, then I don't see who else would play it other than devoted fans of XI. I'm certainly not going to put up with BS like that when games like Old Republic or GW2 are on the horizon. 

#12 Posted by Diamond (8634 posts) -
@BunkerBuster:  As of a few days ago they weren't letting anyone in the forums.  There's no place to give feedback on anything to Square Enix.
#13 Posted by BunkerBuster (1042 posts) -
@Diamond said:
" @BunkerBuster:  As of a few days ago they weren't letting anyone in the forums.  There's no place to give feedback on anything to Square Enix. "
That sounds like an absolute dissaster. The whole forums? Is there any way to give feedback in the game itself? Perhaps it was too soon for the them to be having this beta then.
#14 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@BunkerBuster said:
" @Seppli: Are you making sure to post this at the Sqeenix site? It is after all a beta and they need to hear the problems the game is having. Bitching about it on Giantbomb wont help the game at all.  On a side note, are people really this surprised that Square can't make games in the 21st century? They basically take a franchise and remake it every single year and it's almost always bought in the millions. Why would they ever need to try harder if they have so many fans that just keep putting up with it year after year. Was there ever a though that this could ever be good after the first one back in 2002? "
You can't post on their forums at the moment... just for good measure.
#15 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@BunkerBuster said:
" @Diamond said:
" @BunkerBuster:  As of a few days ago they weren't letting anyone in the forums.  There's no place to give feedback on anything to Square Enix. "
That sounds like an absolute dissaster. The whole forums? Is there any way to give feedback in the game itself? Perhaps it was too soon for the them to be having this beta then. "
 
The game's coming out on the 30th of Semptember. Limited Edtion buyers get a 7day head start. So early retail release is gonna be in 2 weeks. Full retail release is happening in 3 weeks. This isn't the kind of Beta test, where big stuff gets changed around. Minor tweaks at most and some bug squashing. It's about getting servers up and running. An infrastructure stress test.
 
And no, at this point, there doesn't seem to be any feedback option.
#16 Posted by BunkerBuster (1042 posts) -
@Seppli: So really, the beta is actually the first four months of this games existence?
#17 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@bergi27 said:

" I registered only for say that your tears are very delicious and wanted to insist on a few point.  The lack of tutorial and bad UI should help filter the ass hole away toward powerhouse MMO. More fun for me since after playing XI since release... XIV is pretty much the exact same thing.    A company that don't give a fuck about the opinion of their player base and make their game the way they want to do it. The community made up for it since I was never surrounded of angry 15 yo boy (not that you are but they are like cancer on WoW).  SE do make interesting concept like the possibility of playing multiple jobs/classes on the same character or international servers which are the main reason I can't play any/most other MMO for more then a few days. I have friends around the globe and soon moving to Asia so the lack international server would be a total/retarded deal breaker for me but not for others.  So I trust they'll make another interesting game. Will it be for everyone? I doubt it since SE's MMO is (are) so easy to hate with a lot of random concept mistake that can be a deal breaker for many.  I won't bother you with the incredibly long list.  tl;dr Move on if you don't like it. SE doesn't owe you anything. Have a good day sir. "

 
Dude - I don't like the game. I'm free to spill the beans. I can see how the unapologeticly backwards design might keep out immature younglings. That said, what breed of player is attracted by unapologetic backwards design...
 
Look, if most of the game can only be experienced by engaging the community openly and willingly, yet the game makes it hard to communicate with others - it just doesn't add up. You might be into slowly growing a community and painstakingly getting to discover all the content that's locked away over years to come.
 
I myself want the immediate gameplay to be as good as possible. The genre itself is about to break into the FPS-type of immediatly rewarding gameplay. Social aspects are being further streamlined, enabling drop-in/drop-out co-op experiences within the context of massive and persistent and maybe even dynamic online worlds. Being MMO soon won't force the backwards type of disjointed gameplay upon us. I want the best of both worlds. Massive online persistence and moment to moment high octane action.
 
Final Fantasy XIV goes in the opposite direction without even giving their players modern tools of communication and organisation. It's an outlandish approach that will only be appreciated by players that are completely detached of the modern gaming landscape or who are just willfully ignorant. Of course, if you like the game, that's great for you. I myself personally have never seen worse MMORPG gamedesign since I'm into the genre.
#18 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@BunkerBuster: 
 
Not really. Square/Enix just doesn't give a shit about what's expected in terms of comfort and functionality and pacing and user interface and... and... and... 
 
Final Fantasy XIV is not inherently broken, it's just willfully and intentionally designed to be backwards and outlandish. Ignoring most MMORPG standards for their own clumsy and blocky and unwieldy solutions, if they offer a solution at all.
 
If I was on the business side of things, like a majority shareholder, I'd fire the whole lot of them and hire more humble people that acknowledge other developer's labors. Their current teams/leads are unable to adopt what works and adapt to the modern gaming landscape.
 
 
Fans often just mistake backwards wierdness and non-sensical complexity for innovation - where there was none.
#19 Posted by PixieNinja (172 posts) -
@Seppli said:

"And no, at this point, there doesn't seem to be any feedback option. "


@Diamond said:

" @BunkerBuster:  As of a few days ago they weren't letting anyone in the forums.  There's no place to give feedback on anything to Square Enix. "


The game has a Support Desk menu option. 
 
Selecting this provides some limited FAQs, along with plans to enable support from within the game at a later stage of the open beta. Until that time, beta testers that didn't take part in the closed beta are asked to submit their feedback through the Square Enix Support Centre; 
 
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ 
http://support.eu.square-enix.com/ 
#20 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@PixieNinja:
 
Too late. The game's off my HD and it's way beyond recovery anyways. Can't sway people with such fundamentally different gameplay preferences. It'd be like a fundamental christian trying to talk a fundamental taliban out of suicide bombing. FFXIV is like Square/Enix commiting suicide. At least on the western markets. This shit cannot fly. Even Square/Enix fanboys won't adopt and adapt to this shit. It's outlandish and incomprihensible.
 
 P.S. official forums in-active, in-game feedback system not operational... but we can give feedback on a seperate site? That support stuff is more for technical stuff though, not general feedback. The whole FF XIV operation is run by retarded monkeys. I can't explain it otherwise. I know it's a mean thing to say and I usually don't do that. But fuck, this game made me more angry than a jar of pickles that refuses to open to my mighty musclar arms. So fucking much.
#21 Posted by PixieNinja (172 posts) -
@Seppli said:
P.S. official forums in-active, in-game feedback system not operational... but we can give feedback on a seperate site? That support stuff is more for technical stuff though, not general feedback.

The Support Centre is not merely for technical issues; 
 
"While playing the FINAL FANTASY XIV Beta Version, you may experience issues where game balance and game specifications are difficult to understand or you may find that the game system is inconvenient or features require additional explanation. For those testers that have been asked to send feedback, opinions or suggestions, please submit them through the FINAL FANTASY XIV Beta Test Site. Other testers, including those that have joined during the FINAL FANTASY XIV Open Beta Test, submission of feedback through the FINAL FANTASY XIV Beta Test Site is unavailable. These testers should submit their feedback through the SQUARE ENIX Support Centre." 
 
You have an avenue to air your concerns.
#22 Posted by Vager (1653 posts) -

From what I've played, it seems like a good game with really, really bad usability issues; especially the UI. 
Out of the 4 hours of playing as an Armorer. I spent more time trying to figure out what to do, then actually progressing through the game. 
I was not able to craft a thing through out my time with it.

#23 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

 

Dude - there is a chat window. The worst chat window in the history of chatwindows. I never denied its existence.


You can't just click on names on there. There is no general region or city or trade channel, where lots of people can talk and exchange. There's /say and /tell <given name> <surname> and /group and /guild. Dude, I must have spent about 2 years of the past 6 years of my life in MMORPGs. I know what a good chat interface does and whatnot. I know when chatting with my peers is harder than it should be. In FFXIV it's nigh impossible.
 
Yes - I played FF XIV for one hour only, true that, of which I was dead roughly 30min, because the game's designed so piss poorly that you have to figure out on your fucking own to go into the options menu and 'return' as in teleport to revive. Oh - and I've wispered about 20 people during that ordeal. Not one replied. Because the chat interface is completely unworkable.
 
I guess you don't enjoy GiantBomb's unedited quicklooks. Bad games are bad. You know them, when you see them. Hell yeah - I could spend more time with it and maybe I'd develop some form of Stockholm Syndorme... Nah - forget it, there's way better bad games good at kidnapping people than this pile of garbage.
 
Look - I know there are lots of Square/Enix apologizers out there. But god bless. Don't you expect better? 
#24 Posted by PixieNinja (172 posts) -
@Seppli:
Submit some feedback if you feel so strongly.
#25 Posted by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@PixieNinja: 
 
Too fucking late. Dude. They can't be bothered to tell me how to do to play their game. I just won't play it. I'm washing my hands of this crap. They're not gonna listen to me. The entire game is proof of their ignorance. They don't meet one modern MMORPG comfort standard. Not one single one.
 
I can live with a game that's different. FF XIV is different. That's a matter of taste. Functionality and comfort though, that a matter of quality. FF XIV ain't got that. They don't meet industry standards because they're willfully ignorant. A simple fact.
#26 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@PixieNinja said:

" @Seppli: Submit some feedback if you feel so strongly. "

How about acknowledging other games? How about checking out what works and adopt? How about paying respect to their fucking peers?
 
Backwards motherfuckers rather enrage their playerbase with non-sensical backwards bullshit that shouldn't even be an issue. Because others already solved that same problem?
 
Why should I - the fucking dilettante - have to go and teach them the fucking basics? Are you fucking serious?
#27 Posted by PixieNinja (172 posts) -
@Seppli:
If it's too late, and you're washing your hands of it, why are you still complaining about it? 
 
Go tell them what you think.
#28 Posted by Fattony12000 (7323 posts) -

I do find having to download the multiple gigabyte patch files from a third party website pretty hilarious, thanks to FFXIV's mockery of an updater.

#29 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -
@PixieNinja said:

" @Seppli: If it's too late, and you're washing your hands of it, why are you still complaining about it?  Go tell them what you think. "

Dude - Open Beta Testers can't see the Closed Beta Tester Feedback. We can send a feedback message. We can't even start a fucking thread.  Threads, that with 1000% guarantuee exist and are popular on the Closed Beta Feedback forums?
 
Are you fucking new to this gig? Or what? Somekind of naive Open Beta idealist? Seriously?
#30 Posted by Diamond (8634 posts) -
@PixieNinja:  Here's what the support page says :
 
"Please describe as much as possible in 4000 byte letters. When you are encoutering the trouble, please enter the error message, date and time of occurrence, current condition, and Connection Structure."
 
Well, as long as I'm only using letters that are less than 4000 bytes I should be good!  Also, why does their site require I enter my email 3 times?
 
But seriously, thanks for the contact system, because they didn't tell us any of that.  I will be submitting a few of my problems.  They won't be able to fix them for months, if ever, but it is the best thing to do.
#31 Posted by PixieNinja (172 posts) -
@Diamond said:
" @PixieNinja:  Here's what the support page says :
 
"Please describe as much as possible in 4000 byte letters. When you are encoutering the trouble, please enter the error message, date and time of occurrence, current condition, and Connection Structure."  Well, as long as I'm only using letters that are less than 4000 bytes I should be good!  Also, why does their site require I enter my email 3 times?  But seriously, thanks for the contact system, because they didn't tell us any of that.  I will be submitting a few of my problems.  They won't be able to fix them for months, if ever, but it is the best thing to do. "
 
Their support system is just as protracted as their registration system, but at least it gives us all an avenue to voice our concerns. I know you have several :) 

@Seppli
said:
"@PixieNinja said:

" @Seppli: If it's too late, and you're washing your hands of it, why are you still complaining about it?  Go tell them what you think. "

Dude - Open Beta Testers can't see the Closed Beta Tester Feedback. We can send a feedback message. We can't even start a fucking thread.  Threads, that with 1000% guarantuee exist and are popular on the Closed Beta Feedback forums?  Are you fucking new to this gig? Or what? Somekind of naive Open Beta idealist? Seriously? "

No, I'm not 'fucking new' to this gig, I'm just providing you with appropriate avenues to air your concerns, nothing more. You're entitled to your opinion, I just figured that someone with so much to say would want to air them somewhere where the powers that be can potentially take them on board. 
 
Pointless taking out your frustrations on me, I'm not arguing against you.
#32 Posted by Astrophyle (131 posts) -

I see SE aggressively fixing things with their daily patches, and overall I think it's a very polished game in most respects (aside from the torrent app they use, I use utorrent for the patches, personally).  There are some performance things I'd like to see fixed, and some other small problems, like grammar and so on, but I like what I see so far.  I'm actually relieved it's not like WoW and 90% of the other MMOs out there, and the Final Fantasy worlds have always been appealing to me.  There's a mysterious aspect to the lore and world that I can never put my finger on (that exists in FFXI as well) that makes it more interesting, in my opinion, and I'm glad it doesn't spoon-feed everything to you.  There's nothing more boring than never being able to figure something out for yourself once in a while, which is why I was bored to death with WoW.   The customizable GUIs and so on didn't have a prayer of saving me from tiring of the game. 
 
My goal now in the beta is to get a handle on what types of things a single character can do.  If it resembles the FFXI job system and crafting system, that would be a huge plus.   If I have to create new characters and plow through the entire story over and over to try new character abilities (like 90% of MMOs), I won't be happy.  FFXI also had a deep combat system that got into chaining combos with party members, with everything in the game tied to an element which was influenced by the weather outside, and other shit like that.  If FFXIV has all that it'd be very cool indeed.  I'm not huge into MMOs in general, but if I ever did get back into it, I'd probably look into FFXI even though it's dated simply because the world was interesting.  Sorry that some of you are so angered by the beta here.  I'm guessing that if you didn't "get" FFXI you're probably not going to be interested in FFXIV either.

#33 Posted by m1k3 (1327 posts) -

Im enjoying the beta, but i do have to agree with you when it comes to the tutorials and how much help they give new players. There is none. I havn't played FFXI, so i basically had no idea what to do, or which NPCs to talk to. I REALLY hope they put in a good tutorial/hand-holding system for beginners in the retail version.

#34 Posted by BabyChooChoo (4424 posts) -

I remember the last time a developer didn't listen to it's players... someone should send out an all-points bulletin to warn SE. But hey, Square knows what's best for it's fans. I mean look at the universal praise for 13...oh wait

#35 Posted by Astrophyle (131 posts) -

You're right, it did generally get universal praise:  http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/final-fantasy-xiii  ;)
 
Heh, but seriously, all I did for the tutorial part was just listen to the beginning NPCs on what I should do.  Check your Journal.  There's a map in the journal entry that points you to the next guy to talk to.  I recommend finishing the tutorial quests and listening what these guys have to say.  You aren't going to find "!" marks over heads and arrows everywhere because they are catering to a slightly older-school paradigm here where they expect you to pay attention a little bit.   
 
Feel free to PM me if you have honest questions about starting out in the game.  I'm far from being an expert, but I have started to get the hang of the game after a few hours.

#36 Posted by dastly75 (112 posts) -

The game makes some improvements upon FFXI but it's still not a very user-friendly MMO.   That said, once you get into it, it's hard to stop...

#37 Posted by Kidicaris (1 posts) -

I had a friend in the Closed Beta, so I knew players were having a lot of issues with the game--both from what my friend was telling me, and from our discussions about what he was reading on the closed beta forums.
 
Yet, we were both Square fans that grew up gaming during Squaresoft's golden age in the mid 90's so we really wanted the game to be amazing. Even though I haven't liked many of the Final Fantasy franchise games since FF Tactics, even though I finally escaped FFXI like a refugee on the last chopper leaving Saigon, even though it has been very clear that Square Enix builds their games in some kind of air tight bubble where they never look out, I hoped and wished and believed that FFXIV was going to be great and beautiful and sound amazing.
 
So far the best thing about FFXVI has been the music. It was the most enjoyable thing about my beta experiences. Especially the Crystal Theme when you log in or log out. Yes, one of my most enjoyable moments is when I log out. Unfortunately, the game itself is horrible. I find myself agreeing with everything Seppli has said especially "unwieldy blocky piece of ignorant game design". Since it is getting pretty close to the launch and it is now open beta I don't think anything can be done to change/fix the problems I have, especially considering that 
1) the "problems" were basic parts of the game's design (were intended to be that way)
and 
2) the developer(s) have shown through their feedback responses and in interviews that they have a vision, and they also have a desire to make that vision happen regardless of what the beta tester thinks. This clarity of purpose although admirable may have moved into the realm of willful ignorance with FFXIV.
3) Also open betas are about infrastructure and servers and capacity, not about making huge fixes that effect the mechanics of their game play.  
 
P.S. do not roll a caster. This is the first game I've ever played with no mana regen, where even after I rez from death and get a new full hp bar, my mana remains used up >.>

#38 Posted by ISuperGamerI (1880 posts) -

I haven't played the beta but I was in the beta of Final Fantasy 11 on the 360 and it was not fun at all even when playing with a few of my real life friends. It seems like they try and create the most complicated game for some reason.

#39 Posted by Diamond (8634 posts) -
@PixieNinja:  wanted to update you on this fiasco.  They got back to me basically saying that that system is not for feedback.  So they're not taking any user feedback on bugs / problems / suggestions with the open beta.
#40 Posted by PixieNinja (172 posts) -
@Diamond said:
" @PixieNinja:  wanted to update you on this fiasco.  They got back to me basically saying that that system is not for feedback.  So they're not taking any user feedback on bugs / problems / suggestions with the open beta. "

Ouch, that's far from ideal considering they direct open beta users to do exactly that. They clearly need to deal with a whole host of issues from a very basic level, and I'd be really surprised if the game still launched on the projected release date. 
 
Cheers for the update Diamond.
#41 Posted by m1k3 (1327 posts) -

eh, im still keeping my pre-order. hopefully some stuff gets fixed before release, but ill play.

#42 Posted by Fracture (149 posts) -

This isn't meant to be racist so don't take it as such. 
 
Square is a Japanese company and a big one. As such they have drastically different ideas on what makes a good game. From watching most eastern MMO's get released they all have some similarities. Great looking games that are very grindy and shallow. They tend to get by because they are new or have a good franchise affiliation and they never really streamline anything. The goal is to get the grind mills working and players will show up (and they do). Western developers tend to ask the community what they want, and then do what is reasonably possible to get those features online. 
 
Now it might look like I enjoy one game style over the other, and I do. I'm from the states and will never understand the idea that games have to be simple click fests with very little in terms of plot or flavor outside of the intro docs but that's usually how eastern games go. Keep in mind this is the same company that recently released FF13, and well... that game was terrible.

#43 Edited by EdIsCool (1122 posts) -
@SteamPunkJin said:

" Beta game is in Beta. Get over it. 
FFXI was never the friendliest MMO and FFXIV will only slightly improve that. WoW is waiting for you.
 
It's the same shit every day from people who never played XI in the first place (cause it wasn't WoW) and are at a loss when it comes to XIV. All my friends from XI have been enjoying the Beta a great deal, and they honestly can't know much more than any other Beta tester. What kills me is, all you folks bitching about the game that's in Beta, KEEP playing it and keep expecting the Beta to be worlds different the next day. It's an MMO - by it's very nature it's ever-evolving, the Beta may lack a lot of polish and how close the release is doesn't matter, the game will continue to change for years.  

"
even if it was a real beta, which I doubt, many key design decisions have been taken, and they are shit and will remain shit.
#44 Posted by Astrophyle (131 posts) -
@Fracture: I'm from the states and I have a very different opinion about games than you, it seems.  I have a hard time keeping interested in American RPGs nowadays, because while the storytelling might be okay, the gameplay is often shallow and uninteresting.  I used to be a huge Fallout 1 and 2 fan, and I'll visit Fallout 3 every few months for 10-15 hours at a time, but it bores the hell out of me to the point I just don't care anymore after that time.  I feel like I've given it a fair shake after 45 hours of it.  I finished Dragon Age because of the narrative, but the gameplay was a copy of Baldur's Gate which has been done a hundred times by now.  The game was easy.  I keep hoping that someday Bioware writes a game that's not intended for casual gamers.  
 
The FF games (and several other JRPGs) have an appeal to those who don't necessarily want realism, but rather a big focus on the combat, and using different strategies to take down the hardest of enemies.  (Those that stuck around in FFXIII to take down the adamantoises knows what I'm talking about.)  My two favorite PS3 games so far are both JRPGs, Demon's Souls (I still play this one) and FFXIII (far from terrible, my friend).  Both are very different games, but both are very combat-focused and both have some insanely difficult battles to face if you want them.  
 
I think FFXIV is going to be cool because it caters to the more hardcore RPG crowd.  If it's like FFXI in the respects I think it is, it has deep combat and party dynamics, and it will have tons of ridiculous bosses to fight that drop lots of cool stuff.  I will admit it's not going to be a WoW-killer by any means just because it's so different, but I think it'll have a strong following like FFXI did (and does still).
#45 Posted by Daveyo520 (6689 posts) -

I have heard nothing but bad things about this game.

#46 Edited by TwoOneFive (9459 posts) -
@Geno: the only legitimate betas i have been in recently are littlebigplanet 2 and medal of honor. those games NEEDED betas and certainly benefited from them BIG TIME
#47 Posted by Fracture (149 posts) -

@ audiophyle 
 
The idea that eastern RPG's are heavily focused on combat and that's what appeals to people of that type of game is fine but to me that's not what the R in RPG means to me. WoW may be "shallow" in some respects (I honestly don't see this) but the combat in FF11 was terrible. Took too long to get into and out of fights and once you hit the L10-L14 range the games ramp up made it near-impossible to do anything but group. Then the game punished you for grouping with people that were a couple levels higher or lower than you were thereby making it a giant chore to even get into a group. 
 
The G part of RPG stands for game,a nd games are meant to be fun, I never found the experience in FF11 of standing around waiting for a group to be fun. I never found the waiting after a fight to heal up to be fun. I never found the experience of being AOE grou-killed by wandering goblins with bombs to be fun,a nd de-leveling was certainly not fun. If you loko at games Like Lineage 1&2 you get games that were havily PVP based and whenever I played either of those games (god it's been a while) it was like a gank fest. 
 
And seriously, how was the combat of any of those games "deep?" Most of them consisted of targeting, sticking, and watching the auto fight and waiting for the couple times during the fight when you woudl fire off a special attack. If you were one of the special classes you might have a few other things to do but the games mostly came down to watching the fights and deciding when to heal or when to bail. In WoW you characters have a ton of abilities and ways to build them so that the actual experience of combat is not only fun, but a lot deeper than FF11 was. 
 
The visuals I've seen from FF14 look amazing, I just don't get the East's obsession with these grind heavy shallow games. Just making your game hard isn't interesting anymore and hasn't been for quite some time now.
#48 Posted by Tennmuerti (8076 posts) -

Is this the same game that limits your playtime to 8 hours a week after which you get less and less XP eventually dropping to 0xp after another 7 hours?
Is this the same game that is said to have insanely repetitive quest and boring grinding combat, worse then many of the current MMO's on the market?
Is this the same game that has already been accused of having huge amounts of copy pasted areas, not just objects mind you but entire villages and areas copy pasted.

And now I hear even the UI is abysmal .... lol
It may sell well in the east just from the brand name alone, but not in the west.
 
I love the smell of MMO failure in the morning.

#49 Posted by PixieNinja (172 posts) -
@Tennmuerti said:
"Is this the same game that limits your playtime to 8 hours a week after which you get less and less XP eventually dropping to 0xp after another 7 hours?

Not quite. The surplus system is based around a series of XP thresholds. For the first 8 thresholds, XP will be earned at 100%. For the 7 thresholds following this, XP will gradually reduce to 0, with the remaining stored as surplus. Nothing has been done with the surplus stored as of yet. The concept of a threshold is based around how much XP can realistically be gained in an hour, so someone who's grinding XP constantly is likely to hit surplus before someone who takes time out to explore, visit towns, craft, gather, and so on. 
 
XP impacts on your physical level, but not your different disciplines within the game, which level up through skill points. These have their own associated thresholds, and can simply be avoided if ever touched on by changing to a different discipline.
 
@Tennmuerti said:
"Is this the same game that is said to have insanely repetitive quest and boring grinding combat, worse then many of the current MMO's on the market?

The guildleve system is the primary source of quests in the beta right now, with only one class quest being present in the game, and all others omitted right now. Levequests take different forms depending on whether they're local or regional, along with the type of discipline you're currently playing. Disciples of War and Magic will have levequests to kill a certain number of different types of monsters, but this isn't so different to other MMOs.
 
@Tennmuerti said:
"Is this the same game that has already been accused of having huge amounts of copy pasted areas, not just objects mind you but entire villages and areas copy pasted."
 
Not that I've ever seen, no?
 
@Tennmuerti
said:
"And now I hear even the UI is abysmal .... lol It may sell well in the east just from the brand name alone, but not in the west.  I love the smell of MMO failure in the morning. "

*nods* the UI is rough to say the least unfortunately...
 
#50 Posted by Diamond (8634 posts) -
@PixieNinja said:
@Tennmuerti said:
"Is this the same game that has already been accused of having huge amounts of copy pasted areas, not just objects mind you but entire villages and areas copy pasted."
 
Not that I've ever seen, no?
No, he's right.  There are a few unique areas but 90% of the game is prefab environments copy pasted about 30-50 times.  It's not just the assets like a bush or a tree, we're talking the shapes and designs of the land itself.

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