"Support" question

#1 Posted by Meteor_VII (125 posts) -

So far I am only into chapter 5 and have recruited the village boy. But now that I have some of the map unlocked I have been buying Reeking boxes and trying to farm a bit for support  conversation's and to a lesser degree levels and gear. 
 
My question is that it seems that not everyone can have support  conversations with everyone, or am I wrong? The village boy can't have support  conversations with chrom for example or Miriel doesn't have any support  conversation's with Lissa. I might be wrong but in the support menu when you select a person it shows everyone they can currently have a support conversation with and blacked out people who will later be able to talk to them. So do some characters just not ever get along with each other? Is it then useless to keep them close to each other in battle or pair them up if they can't give (eventually) super buffs to a certain ally?

#2 Posted by EarlessShrimp (1631 posts) -

I believe even in battle you'll see that you can't earn relationship with everyone. Sometimes you'll have a character essentially surrounded by allies and not all of them will establish a relationship at the end combat. You can tell at a glance which ones will in battle by seeing the red circling around the characters that will establish a relationship. So, to answer you're question I don't think so duder. Hope that helps!

#3 Posted by smokeyd123 (322 posts) -

I was wondering that myself. Damn shame, Chrom and Lon'Qu made such a badass team

#4 Posted by azrailx (238 posts) -

for the best effects with pairing you really want a boy girl team

im more annoyed about certain limitations on marriage

#5 Posted by StarvingGamer (7919 posts) -

Here's a good list of who supports who if you want it: http://www.serenesforest.net/fe13/support.html

That said, if there's no one better to stand next to, you will still get a small buff and a chance at a Dual Strike even if the character's can't build a support relationship so you might as well.

#6 Posted by Hailinel (23694 posts) -

@azrailx said:

for the best effects with pairing you really want a boy girl team

im more annoyed about certain limitations on marriage

What limitations? The inability to engage in incest?

#7 Edited by Bocam (3669 posts) -

@Hailinel: Same sex couples maybe? Though Morgan seems like she/he has quite the Electra/Oedipus Complex

#8 Posted by Hailinel (23694 posts) -

@Bocam said:

@Hailinel: Same sex couples maybe?

True, though it's kind of hard to have a child that way.

#9 Posted by Red (5994 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Bocam said:

@Hailinel: Same sex couples maybe?

True, though it's kind of hard to have a child that way.

Yes, which is why the game should introduce a three-way support system in which a gay couple also supports with a woman to be their surrogate. Stupid close-minded Japanese...

#10 Posted by Masterherox (59 posts) -

At first, Donny was horrible, so I pumped up him and stuck him kellam for their assist. Around being a level 20 villager, he was starting to get tough. Then I turned him into a merc, and he became mighty. Then I turned him into a hero, and now you can't actually hurt him.

#11 Posted by Thoseposers (773 posts) -

Is there any way to tell how long until you get another support conversation between characters? I feel like they're not opening up that fast even though i'm pairing up the same people a bunch and generally positioning people next to each other

#12 Posted by Hailinel (23694 posts) -

@Thoseposers said:

Is there any way to tell how long until you get another support conversation between characters? I feel like they're not opening up that fast even though i'm pairing up the same people a bunch and generally positioning people next to each other

You earn experience for supports by having them engage in actions while paired or adjacent. You can't just have them standing next to each other for it to work.

#13 Posted by BisonHero (6055 posts) -

@Thoseposers said:

Is there any way to tell how long until you get another support conversation between characters? I feel like they're not opening up that fast even though i'm pairing up the same people a bunch and generally positioning people next to each other

Don't know for sure, but past games have made you REALLY work for some of them, like you only get their last support conversation if they fight together a bunch on literally every chapter that both characters are available, and even then you only see that last support conversation like 1 or 2 chapters before the game ends.

So my suggestion is that you keep at it. It's a long-term system, most of the time.

#14 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@Red said:

@Hailinel said:

@Bocam said:

@Hailinel: Same sex couples maybe?

True, though it's kind of hard to have a child that way.

Yes, which is why the game should introduce a three-way support system in which a gay couple also supports with a woman to be their surrogate. Stupid close-minded Japanese...

Ha, I'm sort of glad there hasn't been a big backlash against not having same sex marriage.

Though it would be nice maybe in the next Fire Emblem where kids don't matter to have some of that.

#15 Posted by Hailinel (23694 posts) -

@BisonHero said:

@Thoseposers said:

Is there any way to tell how long until you get another support conversation between characters? I feel like they're not opening up that fast even though i'm pairing up the same people a bunch and generally positioning people next to each other

Don't know for sure, but past games have made you REALLY work for some of them, like you only get their last support conversation if they fight together a bunch on literally every chapter that both characters are available, and even then you only see that last support conversation like 1 or 2 chapters before the game ends.

So my suggestion is that you keep at it. It's a long-term system, most of the time.

The supports in Awakening aren't as difficult as some other games. When you S-rank certain supports, the characters marry, and will be able to have a child, who becomes a player character you can recruit (because time travel).

@Nottle said:

@Red said:

@Hailinel said:

@Bocam said:

@Hailinel: Same sex couples maybe?

True, though it's kind of hard to have a child that way.

Yes, which is why the game should introduce a three-way support system in which a gay couple also supports with a woman to be their surrogate. Stupid close-minded Japanese...

Ha, I'm sort of glad there hasn't been a big backlash against not having same sex marriage.

Though it would be nice maybe in the next Fire Emblem where kids don't matter to have some of that.

I don't know if that will ever be an option. The two games that did feature marriage, Awakening and Genealogy of the Holy War, both use marriage as a means to pair adults together and define the characters in the story's second generation.

#16 Posted by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Nottle said:

@Red said:

@Hailinel said:

@Bocam said:

@Hailinel: Same sex couples maybe?

True, though it's kind of hard to have a child that way.

Yes, which is why the game should introduce a three-way support system in which a gay couple also supports with a woman to be their surrogate. Stupid close-minded Japanese...

Ha, I'm sort of glad there hasn't been a big backlash against not having same sex marriage.

Though it would be nice maybe in the next Fire Emblem where kids don't matter to have some of that.

I don't know if that will ever be an option. The two games that did feature marriage, Awakening and Genealogy of the Holy War, both use marriage as a means to pair adults together and define the characters in the story's second generation.

I know, and thats fine, but it would be nice if Nintendo showed a little forward thinking and would consider it next time. I know Genealogy of the Holy War and Awakening both have story reasons for marriage, but all the game have supports right? Can't they just let a pair of units reach S rank together even if it doesn't tie into some plot point. Have some dialog that says "I'm rootin for you brothers/sisters," so people can ship to their heart's content.

I don't really know how marriage works in these games, but if genealogy is the only thing holding same sex marriage back why not try it out next time when that won't tie into the story? They are still going to put into supports why not put in the little extra effort to make every characters S rank relations special?

#17 Posted by Red (5994 posts) -

@Nottle: In Fire Emblem games without kids, A-Rank supports usually don't give any sort of information as to a real relationship being established until the game's end credits, when both characters are shown on the same screen in the epilogue telling what happened to them. Usually there are a few shared screens for any same-gender pairs with A-Rank supports. It doesn't say they got married, but given the medieval fantasy setting, I think the concept of your two horsemen wandering through the plains together is about as good as a shipper can get.

#18 Posted by BisonHero (6055 posts) -
@Nottle For what it's worth, Fire Emblem has implied gay relationships before, though not all of those survive North American localization given how puritanical the US is. While they could make the Fire Emblem setting a utopia where anybody married anybody, most FE games have some obvious nods to countries/mythologies/empires of medieval Europe (e.g. Path of Radiance basically had a Holy Roman Empire analogue), so they're slightly justified in the sense that medieval Europe wasn't super accepting of gay marriage.
#19 Posted by Hailinel (23694 posts) -

@Red said:

@Nottle: In Fire Emblem games without kids, A-Rank supports usually don't give any sort of information as to a real relationship being established until the game's end credits, when both characters are shown on the same screen in the epilogue telling what happened to them. Usually there are a few shared screens for any same-gender pairs with A-Rank supports. It doesn't say they got married, but given the medieval fantasy setting, I think the concept of your two horsemen wandering through the plains together is about as good as a shipper can get.

Yep. And even when the A-rank support is between a heterosexual pairing, the relationship doesn't necessarily result in romance. But as noted, there have certainly been implied homosexual pairings before. For example, Lyndis and Florina's A-support ending in Fire Emblem could be read in one such manner.

#20 Posted by DystopiaX (5291 posts) -

@Hailinel said:

@Bocam said:

@Hailinel: Same sex couples maybe?

True, though it's kind of hard to have a child that way.

Oh man, what if they made a FE game with 2 different generations, your army in the 2nd generation is affected by how many children the people in your 1st gen army had...so if you didn't get enough support dudes you would have a small army...

that would be a badass game.

#21 Edited by Nottle (1912 posts) -

@DystopiaX said:

@Hailinel said:

@Bocam said:

@Hailinel: Same sex couples maybe?

True, though it's kind of hard to have a child that way.

Oh man, what if they made a FE game with 2 different generations, your army in the 2nd generation is affected by how many children the people in your 1st gen army had...so if you didn't get enough support dudes you would have a small army...

that would be a badass game.

That sound like something that would be in the Mars idea they had. Maybe they could give you weird ways to stop population growth of the other faction through propaganda or biological warfare. Say Genophage!

Why not just put that in the next Xcom?

@Hailinel said:

@Red said:

@Nottle: In Fire Emblem games without kids, A-Rank supports usually don't give any sort of information as to a real relationship being established until the game's end credits, when both characters are shown on the same screen in the epilogue telling what happened to them. Usually there are a few shared screens for any same-gender pairs with A-Rank supports. It doesn't say they got married, but given the medieval fantasy setting, I think the concept of your two horsemen wandering through the plains together is about as good as a shipper can get.

Yep. And even when the A-rank support is between a heterosexual pairing, the relationship doesn't necessarily result in romance. But as noted, there have certainly been implied homosexual pairings before. For example, Lyndis and Florina's A-support ending in Fire Emblem could be read in one such manner.

Do you think the reason character relationships are adressed at the end of the older games is because dated technology or that they just didn't think of implementing more? Again I'm not super versed in the series, but didn't the older games delve into the support relations only when you ranked up in the relationship. It's just nice that Awakening seems to do more. Hopefully that can continue.

Also probably adds to replayability. Characters aren't limited to only a few supports right?

#22 Posted by Hailinel (23694 posts) -

@Nottle: It's not really technology. It's just that the relationships generally don't have time to see full resolution until the end of the games because they're in the middle of war and one or both characters may end up dead before the game's end. The way that support relationships typically work in the series is that the two characters involved must participate together in battle, though the specific requirements for that participation vary. (Example: In Path of Radiance, progress in support relationships is made each time two characters simply participate in the same battle, while in Awakening, the characters must stand adjacent to one another and engage in action such as attacking an enemy or one unit healing another.) Each time a certain amount of "experience" is earned, the player is able to view a support conversation between the characters, which advances their support rank.

In most games in the series, characters are generally tied to a selection of characters with which they can support, but are limited in the number of support ranks they can gain across characters. In Awakening, I am unaware of any such limitation in terms of the number of support ranks they can have between compatible characters, but they are limited in whom they can have support relationships with. Radiant Dawn on the Wii actually allows for any two characters to forge support relationships, but the system in that game was weakened by necessitating that the conversations themselves become more generic and template-based.

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