#1 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

Source

So looks like people are blowing the "Fraud" Whistle on Gearbox because of the demo they showed a wile ago had stuff that was not in the game in even the faintest sense. And showing off graphical stuff that was a far cry from the final game we got.

Of course Randy denies the fraud claims and says that they will be looking into the feedback about the game.

Want to point out a section where it says

"We learn and grow. I have always profited from criticism and, thankfully, I have never been in short supply."

Then direct you to another thread

I personally think the demo they showed lead a lot of people to buy the game from what they saw.

What do you all think about this developing story?

Edit

His twitter is pretty active as of late.

#3 Edited by ArtisanBreads (3753 posts) -

The demo is not the fraud part of this. SEGA not knowing if Gearbox was diverting all the work of the game to outside studios is the fraud part of it.

Will be interesting to see if Sega actual believes the claims that their money was used on boarderlands 2 and not on Aliens.

Yes, this.

#4 Posted by Morbid_Coffee (954 posts) -

I think I'm getting kind of sick of hearing about this game and all the drama around it and already realized before all this happened that if the game didn't turn out bad, it would just be horribly mediocre.

Gearbox fucked up and the internet is in it's monthly huffy tantrum mode until the next big news of some game developer or company fucks up and then they'll latch onto that too and drag it out longer than it has to go on for too.

#5 Posted by Aetheldod (3511 posts) -

@morbid_coffee: Fret not dear duder ... if tomorrow there is no PS4 anouncement , this will be a thing of the past :D

#6 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

I just do not like that the entire demo they showed had nothing to do with the final game

#7 Posted by tcsajax (87 posts) -

From what we have heard about the creation of the game so far, I don't think there was fraud involved.

#8 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@tcsajax said:

From what we have heard about the creation of the game so far, I don't think there was fraud involved.

The thing that is brought up is that Gearbox may have used Sega money for Borderlands 2 instead of Aliens.

#9 Edited by Funkydupe (3311 posts) -

@morbid_coffee: Fret not dear duder ... if tomorrow there is no PS4 anouncement , this will be a thing of the past :D

The future is here soon! But right as that happens we'll be in the past again. :``(

#10 Posted by ArtelinaRose (1839 posts) -

I just do not like that the entire demo they showed had nothing to do with the final game

I am willing to bet a very large number of people would never have even picked up on this if the press hadn't pointed it out. It's something to latch on to that people use like a legitimate complaint when it isn't something that they are actually personally upset by. Plenty of video games have demos or prerelease footage that has a bunch of things that never actually make it into the game or are intentionally glamored up to impress and promote preorders, people are just pissed about this one because the game has a well known license attached to it and ended up being mediocre.

#11 Posted by Milkman (16531 posts) -

I don't think people on the internet know how game development works. These "fraud" game demos exist for everything. When a game isn't close to finished, a developer will polish one very small section of the game and show that off at conventions. It happens all the time. Every demo ever shown by every developer is used to manipulate people into buying a game. There are thousands of people in this industry who wish they were as good at their job as Randy Pitchford is.

#12 Posted by JasonR86 (9609 posts) -

I think there's a lot of information we don't know. I think giving him shit on twitter will lead to absolutely nothing beneficial or productive. Doing so is completely futile. Eventually press, lawyers, and the like will suss out the truth or as much truth as they can. But fans should just keep quiet, count their losses, wait until more is known, and adapt according to what they feel. By that I mean if they feel Gearbox fucked them over then don't buy Gearbox products anymore. That is where are agency starts and ends. But fucking chill with the twitter nonsense.

#13 Edited by Funkydupe (3311 posts) -

@milkman: He's the CEO of a company that has made some really poor decisions, not just this past week, but for over half a decade with regards to this title. That is not "being good at your job". He has some personal stake in this, being the front man, talking up the press as well in addition to poor internal man management of Gearbox resources, Sega/publisher relations as well as sucking up to fans of the IP on multiple occasions. Don't attempt to take a fictional high road and state how terrible the rest of us are; while he's just the poor sod who is victimized. People shouldn't harass him through twitter or by other means though, the critique of him in his role as a representative for a relatively big company however is different. But that's just my opinion, and I don't know how game development works nor did I know that demos were not supposed to demo actual games or at least be vertical slices of actual visions of gameplay upon project completion. I'm vocal about this because I don't want misleading demos, and I sure as hell don't want a norm of developers getting used to lying in front of a camera to sell copies.

#14 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@milkman said:

I don't think people on the internet know how game development works. These "fraud" game demos exist for everything. When a game isn't close to finished, a developer will polish one very small section of the game and show that off at conventions. It happens all the time. Every demo ever shown by every developer is used to manipulate people into buying a game. There are thousands of people in this industry who wish they were as good at their job as Randy Pitchford is.

But what about when there is that massive amount of difference in the demo and the real game? The game even looked 100% different in the demo. Animations where better, Gameplay looked and handled different. 100% the demo shown was NEVER in the game.

#15 Edited by Milkman (16531 posts) -

@funkydupe: I'm not defending Pitchford or Gearbox and I think they have a good will to try to gain back after Aliens. Pitchford is good at his job in that he clearly got a whole lot of people extremely excited and extremely invested in this Aliens game with how much outrage there is over its quality. My point is that Gearbox didn't do anything with that demo that every other developer hasn't done as well. Developers show off misleading demos all the time. The key to avoiding stuff like this is simply to stop pre-ordering games. Manage your excitement, read reviews and people will be less disappointed when a game like this ends up being shit.

@the_laughing_man: You're exaggerating a lot. The demo was simply a better looking version of something that was in the campaign.

#16 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@milkman said:

@funkydupe: I'm not defending Pitchford or Gearbox and I think they have a good will to try to gain back after Aliens. Pitchford is good at his job in that he clearly got a whole lot of people extremely excited and extremely invested in this Aliens game with how much outrage their is over its quality. My point is that Gearbox didn't do anything with that demo that every other developer hasn't done as well. Developers show off misleading demos all the time. The key to avoiding stuff like this is simply to stop pre-ordering games. Manage your excitement, read reviews and people will be less disappointed when a game like this ends up being sit.

@the_laughing_man: You're exaggerating a lot. The demo was simply a better looking version of something that was in the campaign.

Uhh no. There was no super hold out thing where you run under a door. There was no dude being pulled into a vent.

#17 Edited by Zelyre (1127 posts) -

We were most likely shown Colonial Marines on PC hardware without optimizations or Killzone type target renders.

Where fraud comes in to play? I'd be interested to see where Sega takes this. Yeah, gamers were fooled, but Sega got -screwed-. They paid Gearbox to develop a game. Gearbox took that money and paid another studio to make a large portion of the game.

Just making up numbers, but if Sega gave Gearbox 10 million to develop Aliens and Gearbox took that money, paid another developer 5 million to develop Aliens and used the other 5 million as essentially a 0% interest loan to pump into internal projects; that is some shady shit right there.

#18 Edited by Scrawnto (2434 posts) -

@milkman said:

@funkydupe: I'm not defending Pitchford or Gearbox and I think they have a good will to try to gain back after Aliens. Pitchford is good at his job in that he clearly got a whole lot of people extremely excited and extremely invested in this Aliens game with how much outrage their is over its quality. My point is that Gearbox didn't do anything with that demo that every other developer hasn't done as well. Developers show off misleading demos all the time. The key to avoiding stuff like this is simply to stop pre-ordering games. Manage your excitement, read reviews and people will be less disappointed when a game like this ends up being sit.

@the_laughing_man: You're exaggerating a lot. The demo was simply a better looking version of something that was in the campaign.

Uhh no. There was no super hold out thing where you run under a door. There was no dude being pulled into a vent.

Remember that E3 demo of Halo 2 that was entirely fabricated, and wasn't in the actual game at all? No one seemed to be upset about that. I guess the difference is that Halo 2 turned out to be pretty good, where Colonial Marines did not.

#19 Posted by JasonR86 (9609 posts) -

@scrawnto said:

@the_laughing_man said:

@milkman said:

@funkydupe: I'm not defending Pitchford or Gearbox and I think they have a good will to try to gain back after Aliens. Pitchford is good at his job in that he clearly got a whole lot of people extremely excited and extremely invested in this Aliens game with how much outrage their is over its quality. My point is that Gearbox didn't do anything with that demo that every other developer hasn't done as well. Developers show off misleading demos all the time. The key to avoiding stuff like this is simply to stop pre-ordering games. Manage your excitement, read reviews and people will be less disappointed when a game like this ends up being sit.

@the_laughing_man: You're exaggerating a lot. The demo was simply a better looking version of something that was in the campaign.

Uhh no. There was no super hold out thing where you run under a door. There was no dude being pulled into a vent.

Remember that E3 demo of Halo 2 that was entirely fabricated, and wasn't in the actual game at all? No one seemed to be upset about that. I guess the difference is that Halo 2 turned out to be pretty good, where Colonial Marines did not.

Remember Killzone 2? Or really the majority of the games shown early on the PS3 that were supposed to be real time? ...yeah.

#20 Posted by Dauthi693 (130 posts) -

Remember last E3 where practically every game was shown was running on a PC regardless of which conference they were in.

#21 Posted by ManMadeGod (1552 posts) -

@scrawnto said:

@the_laughing_man said:

@milkman said:

@funkydupe: I'm not defending Pitchford or Gearbox and I think they have a good will to try to gain back after Aliens. Pitchford is good at his job in that he clearly got a whole lot of people extremely excited and extremely invested in this Aliens game with how much outrage their is over its quality. My point is that Gearbox didn't do anything with that demo that every other developer hasn't done as well. Developers show off misleading demos all the time. The key to avoiding stuff like this is simply to stop pre-ordering games. Manage your excitement, read reviews and people will be less disappointed when a game like this ends up being sit.

@the_laughing_man: You're exaggerating a lot. The demo was simply a better looking version of something that was in the campaign.

Uhh no. There was no super hold out thing where you run under a door. There was no dude being pulled into a vent.

Remember that E3 demo of Halo 2 that was entirely fabricated, and wasn't in the actual game at all? No one seemed to be upset about that. I guess the difference is that Halo 2 turned out to be pretty good, where Colonial Marines did not.

That halo level was better than anything in the final game (sp). Seems like just yesterday that people were going CRAZY waiting for the halo 2 release

#22 Posted by coakroach (2488 posts) -

Randy I love you buddy but you blew it.

#23 Edited by Phished0ne (2483 posts) -

Sega would have a hell of a time with a fraud lawsuit, especially if gearbox has good accountants. People throwing a shit fit about the demo are blowing things up.

I will continually scream until my face turns blue about how they really have literally no clue about what happened to the development of the game. They might as well be trusting what some dude in a guy fawkes mask yells at them about some government conspiracy. For all that we know, Sega had some dumbass reason for wanting those demo levels out, or there was a technical reason that development couldn't continue under that framework.

#24 Edited by Funkydupe (3311 posts) -

Comparing how the two games did the first week A:CM outsold Dead Space 3.

#25 Posted by TheHT (10891 posts) -

The demo is not the fraud part of this. SEGA not knowing if Gearbox was diverting all the work of the game to outside studios is the fraud part of it.

I'm no lawer, but I think that'd only be the case if whatever agreement between them was for Gearbox themselves to do all of the work. If Gearbox was given free reign to do as they saw fit, including outsourcing which is at this point common in game development, SEGA ain't got shit.

#26 Posted by Lyisa (328 posts) -

There is a weird mix of frustration and joy with seeing people overreact on the internet to something being different than their fantasies or expectations.

It happened with Diablo 3 as well: this toss about of lawsuits and such over what amounts to mediocrity and disappointment. Somebody has to answer for this failure and such.

If there really is any fraud, isn't that only between Gearbox and Sega? Or does ones 60 dollars give you some entitlement and stake?

#27 Posted by GetEveryone (4455 posts) -

I think I'm getting kind of sick of hearing about this game and all the drama around it and already realized before all this happened that if the game didn't turn out bad, it would just be horribly mediocre.

Gearbox fucked up and the internet is in it's monthly huffy tantrum mode until the next big news of some game developer or company fucks up and then they'll latch onto that too and drag it out longer than it has to go on for too.

The main issue is (as far as I'm concerned), that they've put out a terrible product, while peddling images and video that has nothing to do with the released version.

Now, for those initiated few on games forums and similar ilk it isn't such a problem: if they spend the money on it, it's entirely their own fault. Given that it's been a chart topper, though, I'd imagine there are a fair few who haven't been privvy to it's critical panning or the uproar it's caused.

They've likely bought it on good faith based on the licence, and have subsequently been burned.

The fact that the game is making money is appalling. It sends the wrong messages to developers.

#28 Posted by Winternet (8006 posts) -

When did this demo come out?

#29 Posted by MikeJFlick (438 posts) -

I'd understand if this was only a console release and they were showing what the game was like on a PC before they had to downscale it for the consoles, but it doesn't explain why it looks like complete shit on the PC as well.

#30 Edited by MB (11988 posts) -

Moderator
#31 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@mb said:

See that kinda crap should not happen.

#32 Posted by Ravenlight (8040 posts) -

Hey guys, maybe stop preordering games. The A:CM situation is a bummer but it's not entirely surprising.

#33 Edited by Rafaelfc (1315 posts) -

He should lose a lot of money.

I'm sick and tired of these big companies using every dirty cheap tactic in the book to pump their pre-order numbers.

Pre-orders should be outlawed outright, and game demos should be enforced to disclose the platform it's being played on and prove that everything is actually running live in a real-ass console.

End all bullshit.

#34 Edited by KaosAngel (13765 posts) -

Aren't you the same people who were all over Borderlands 2?

#35 Posted by DonPixel (2585 posts) -

Well that happens when you sell shit products.

#36 Edited by EXTomar (4500 posts) -

Demos and previews are not product. I understand people being annoyed at how the preview media looked verses what was delivered but that isn't fraud. Punish Gearbox for not delivering what is promised not buying their product but don't claim it was fraud.

Previews like this are built to generate preorders. Maybe people should stop doing pre-orders.

#37 Edited by FunkasaurasRex (847 posts) -

I think Pitchford should hire someone to handle PR and quit bumbling about on Twitter. He's a good pitchman for Gearbox but his continued exposure is having diminishing returns.

#38 Edited by connerthekewlkid (1803 posts) -

@rafaelfc said:

He should lose a lot of money.

I'm sick and tired of these big companies using every dirty cheap tactic in the book to pump their pre-order numbers.

Pre-orders should be outlawed outright, and game demos should be enforced to disclose the platform it's being played on and prove that everything is actually running live in a real-ass console.

End all bullshit.

Did you preorder this game or something? your complaining about it in every thread.

#39 Posted by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

I still think the thing with the demo is a bit shady. I am sure a LOT of their pre orders where based on the demo that looked amazing. Had animations that are not in the game. locations that never appeared. An entire battle with a queen that never happened.

Then this game comes out thats buggy as hell. Looks horrid and is just plain bad.

#40 Edited by Dalai (6997 posts) -

If Gearbox used Sega money for Borderlands 2, then Borderlands 2 is the best game Sega has released in a long time.

#41 Posted by big_jon (5709 posts) -

You guys ever see the E3 2003 Halo 2 trailer? It was not in the final game. Now I am not defending Gearbox for putting out an awful game but this seems to be blown out of proportion.

#42 Posted by deathstriker666 (1337 posts) -

Wait, wait, wait. You mean to tell me someone thought a license game would be good? How fucking gullible must you be? Play Halo or any of the plethora of sci-fi shooters out there.

"Aliens: Colonial Marines", how fucking generic of a video game title can you get? It honestly sounds like satire. Just hearing that title should've set your expectations low. Obviously the developers didn't think much of it, clearly it shows in their product. Come on people, think before you start tossing out cash you money cows.

#43 Posted by deathstriker666 (1337 posts) -

Shepard doesn't have wrinkles! The Mako doesn't have an interior! I DEMAND A REFUND!!!

#44 Edited by John1912 (1830 posts) -

I guess I dont see a pre release show demo as being a final product, thus not really subject to omg you lied to me!

#45 Edited by The_Laughing_Man (13629 posts) -

@john1912 said:

I guess I dont see a pre release show demo as being a final product, thus not really subject to omg you lied to me!

It was not just the demo. They also had screenshots and the lot of stuff that was never in the game.