How about that Axiom Verge ending? Endings? Spoilers

So that ending. At least in the fairly good percent/100% versions Trace is returned to Earth after the laser lab goes down and devotes himself to figuring out what's what. In high percent and 100% there's also an addition where after the credits the main bad dude (future you) shows up and tells you that it's no use fighting yourself and that it's time to wake up. Then he shoots you. I'm wondering based on the green things if I don't get to see what that means because I died a bunch and took 27 hours to get to that point. Additionally I'm wondering what else I haven't seen because I can't find ANYONE ELSE talking spoilers about the ending on the internet.

So then, what's up with the world? What do you think it's hinting at? Did anyone do a really fast run, a low percent or a hard run to see what differences that makes to the ending?

At first I thought this all some manner of dying or post death dream. Like, as some of the notes explain, he'd died in so many worlds that the only ones left were so inconceivable they had become twisted and grotesque due to the amount of crazy stuff that needed to happen for this one conscious mind to remain active in some form of reality. Additionally, as the titular axiom note say, conciousness in a sub-algorythm that describes the algorithm as a whole. For those within an algorithm it is reality. That said as the game went on it seemed to back away from that. The robot ladies began getting further fleshed out, as did the history of the world. They started establishing that yes, this is a real place with history. Additionally the later areas tended to be more in the way of nature and rocks than pulsing meat. Maybe then what they said was right I figured. Maybe this is like Science Fiction House of Cards and there's a meaty political thriller at the core of this. Future Tracer committed genocide and started taking apart the huge robots from the safety of the breach. The robots really wanted to kick his ass but were being beaten. The only thing they could manage to get down was killing the one allied with him. There's stuff about the heyday of the world and stuff about the decline of it but that's all in the past. Not clear on all those details yet...

The after credits thing though DEFINITELY seems to indicate that my first impressions have more credence than before and this is some manner of dream perhaps driven by multiverse type stuff. Perhaps it is real and there's many of both. Or perhaps it's all a dream and multiple yous showing up is supposed to clue him into reality not being real. Perhaps if it's the multiverse thing killing one makes the other more complete since there's not two people who are supposed to be the same person. Or something. The fleshy stuff in the last chapter sure supports that "It's a dying dream or something" theory... But I dunno.

Why am I apparently the first person to start discussing this? Let's discuss this! It's nuts! What did you think was going on?

I'm under the impression that either the game isn't doing that well (because no one is talking about it post-release) or no one has gotten to the end yet. I just did.

My percentage of items was 73% and it wasn't green. I also played it on Hard and it also wasn't green, so I don't think it changes anything. My ending was Trace waking up after the lab explosion uninjured and trying to get back to the alien world (of which I already forgotten the name of).

My first theory was also a post- or near-death dream, like you mentioned. I'm not exactly clear on how the cloning or the time travel stuff works, though. It seems like there are two Traces - the one who becomes Athetos and the one who just arrives at the world. I'm not sure who your Trace is. It's possible I just somehow missed some plot points, but it seemed like the player Trace was a clone of Athetos, but then I don't understand how or why the player Trace can infinitely clone himself while Athetos still exists.

It seems like bodies are just vessels, though. The player Trace can send out his brain... red stuff into other bodies (including the drone). Whenever the body dies, it goes back to the last cloning machine to enter that. So I don't think there can be more than one active player Trace at the same time. But then there's the scene halfway through the game right before the hallucination section where you see a Trace running away from you. It's possible it's a hallucination, but I don't think it is, given what ending you got. It's possible that there are some clones that are able to survive on their own, and they are under control of Athetos - the only reason you aren't is because you have the help of the robot ladies - so Athetos commands one of them to go back in time and kill you to prevent you from stopping him.

Obviously we are dealing with multiple dimensions or timelines, otherwise Athetos would cease to exist if he went back in time and killed you, as would the whole toxic gas thing. So I don't know.

Not a bad story all told. I wish I paid more attention, but I had some issues with the game that I found to be distracting.

I've only beaten it once, it was on normal and I think the map exploration percent was my only green part. I've kept playing and I have my map at 99% and my items in the mid 90s.

Also one note I found appears to be a conversation between the Athetos that you fight at the end, and an even earlier incarnation which seems to be turning into a boss, I say this because he appears to be having an identity crisis saying he is Athetos, but also saying he is Telal (the boss with the big gun). Before each line of text in the note the speaker is identified by either A9 or A3 maybe I'm interpreting it incorrectly but that's what it seems like to me.

@overnow: Hmm. Yes, suppose that might be because that guy was once a clone like is said during the clone bit and had a bit of an identity crisis or something as he became his own being?

I kind of don't want to read any of the posts, so I just have one question. Are there actually multiple endings? I've beaten the game once and have gotten 100% completion afterwards but didn't beat it again, so I just wanna know if I should bother or not.

Not that I've seen. I beat it with 95% and 100% completion and got the same ending both times.

I beat it on normal with 94%/99% then went back and got 100/100, then got 100/100 on hard. Same ending as OP all 3 times. None of my text was green though. Unclear what that means.

Perhaps green means you also found and cleared all the 'glitch worlds'? I only found 1 in my hard play thru and 2 or 4 in my normal one. I have seen some people say there are as many as 5. The locations seem to be random per run, unclear if it also a random number of them too.

Has anyone beat it with 0 deaths?

I got the same ending as everyone else here so far. Went back through and got 100/100 and got the same ending again, 19 hours then 21 hours.

The most confusing aspect is definitely the number of Trace/Athetos that exist and how or why they exist. The player character is said to have been a direct clone of the original (a note says that an Athetos had been there very very far in the past that the bad guys were not aware of it) so I don't think he is an alternate universe Trace.... Lots of the logs point to there being many Athetos variants that are writing the logs in some cases and being talked to by the last bad guy Athetos as well. BUT there is also that part with the aborted clone that you kill (or dont kill) which seems to imply that maybe Athetos had been cloning himself lots of times and that is where the multiples come from. It is confusing.

I think that maybe since that near the end boss that is entirely optional is almost exactly like the first boss of the game that it was a cloned version, and that all the bosses you do fight are not clones just alternate universe ones that are.... infected.... maybe by the pathogen in their research or by some of the kinda unexplained beings that had existed on Sudran from the long past.

The logs mention the kuliltu, Rusalki (the lady robots), and The Old Machines. Are the Rusalki and the Old Machines the same thing? What or who are the kuliltu? Is that just the outsiders meaning the multiple Trace/Athetos beings? If I'm right on those 2 things then it seems to me that Athetos and the rest released the plague to force the inhabitants to trust them (not knowing they had done it) to have access to the technology (and Rusalki) that they were previously forbidden to touch and then were going to try and use that technology like the Breach Attractor to their own ends to get to the other side of the breach and the technology that was hidden outside of it. But in doing so the Rusalki figured out their intentions and lead to a stalemate where Athetos (one of them staying safe from the pathogen) is on the edge of leaving on the elevator but cant release the breach attractor because then the Rusalki would be able to rise up and prevent him. Athetos is slowly winning this stalemate from a distance by disabling the drones with the help of the one Rusalki who turned on the others, and who the others don't seem to know that well or trust (very unexplained), BUT when they then destroy that Rusalki they gain information that an Athetos used one of the rebirth eggs thousands of years in the past and they could revive a clone from that moment and use him to their ends..... thus the beginning of the game.

Am I completely wrong here? It is pretty sparse and you kinda have to piece it together yourself but I think I have a least a good portion of this figured except for whatever is the exact reason why Athetos variants slowly become hulking monsters over time.

As for the ending and the whole algorithm/reality stuff. I think that more logically that would explain Earth and the other universes more than Sudran, like Sudran and the breach and worlds it hides are more likely to be the real thing and that the Earth you go back to at the end or were in before that even were actually the dreamed up worlds, hence the idea that that universe eventually had humans in it and that humans though it to be the only reality because they are inherently there to describe its existence. The Trace/Athetos of many of these different universes discovered this and found a way to break out of their universe into Sudran, this coincides with the 1 year that the player character can not remember. That one year he can't remember is most definitely something the Rusalki carefully removed so as the new Trace would not know how to make his way back to Sudran once they send him dreaming off back to his own reality.

I've been thinking a little bit about the wheelchair you find in Zone 1. It's totally out of place, right?

• It's a wheelchair for a human figure. There aren't any other humans, only Trace.
• It's a decidedly Earth artifact. There's no Sudran equivalent of a "wheelchair".
• It's not a glitch or fake memory. At least, not in game-terms (scannable/bombable). I'm assuming there's a password somewhere that might _do something_ with the wheelchair...

The Rusalki (Old Machines/Ophelia/etc?) have the ability to alter memories and minds. Trace says he's been in a coma. Is that true? I don't believe it; I think he recovered after the accident but _saw_ Sudra. It's like the ravings of an insane person; after the accident he's probably been experimenting and exploring Sudra. Does he flicker into the world in a wheelchair as he continues to explore? His body is compatible with the rebirth chamber, since he's a PatternMind. He becomes Atheos in his attempt to share knowledge of Sudra with everyone, but Sudra clearly doesn't like this and then there's the Breach Attractor, the pathogen, etc.

The Rusalki find a different version of Trace, likely right after the explosion. But they're prepared this time; they give Trace memory of a year-long coma. They get him on their side. He fights Atheos and wins. Ophelia kills Atheos and Trace wakes back up with no time having passed; there was no coma. The Rusalki have succeeded; Atheos is dead and they have no more obstacles towards their end goals.

Trace with no memory of Sudra wakes from his coma and is obsessed with it; he has to go back. He does, he succeeds, and he leaves another note, a note where he joins with Atheos instead of fighting him, and says "We're going beyond the Breach". The Rusalki have now failed, and Trace is checking out what is beyond.

@ignisphaseone: I think the wheelchair being there, and being right next to the note about how wonderful Sudra is, implies that it is the first Trace to get there (or the accident one, not sure if that is actually the first one) and his first experience with Sudra. It is also very close to the rebirth egg you start the game in implying you are a clone of him after that trace used that egg and no longer needed the wheel chair. The only question I have is how he made it from the chair to the egg OR how the wheelchair and note made it to where it was. If I had to guess I'd say it was fudged a bit so that you can discover it later when that aspect of the story makes more sense and its close location to the first egg is hinting at.

As far as the note about "We're going beyond the Breach" I think that is not referring to the Trace you play as but referring to the many Athetos/Trace variants that make their way to Sudra and subsequently become the bosses as they were not protected like the final boss Athetos was.

Oh, that's interesting. The note that says "We're going beyond the Breach" is future Trace that finally finds Sudra, and then goes past the Breach _into_ Sudra where he's infected by the pathogen that Atheos released? Like the Rusalki got present (player) Trace to fix the drones, and in turn they get better and can fix present Trace and make it so that he's not affected by the pathogen?

Or, another alternative, maybe the Rusalki kept trying to find versions of Trace that were compatible with the rebirth chambers, but kept finding ones that became infected by the pathogen that convert Traces into bosses, killing in the name of Atheos.

Also related, We're all pretty confident that "A3" and "A9" are references to Atheos/Axioms, all various versions of Trace that are either being twisted by time or pathogens, correct?

@strife777: Yes there is multiple endings. The "extra ending" happends after the credits and i think it depends on how many "green stats" ie high map% / high item% / low death / low time.

Had 0 "green stats" my first time
Had 2 "green stats" my second time and got an extra bit after the credits.

Anyone with 4 green stats yet?

I just finished the game (home sick so why not) and had two green stats. Got a little zinger at that end where Athetos shows up and shoots Trace. Saying "You can't hide from yourself. Time to wake up Trace".

I just completed a low-percentage/under four hour run. after the credits, I was greeted with a DIFFERENT scene than the one previously mentioned that I got on my last playthrough. this time around, Trace is at his computer, states something like "Ha! I'm great!" with Athetos at the door again like the last scene. at the end of this one, he does not shoot you and instead asks something to the effect of "what are you running from, you cannot outrun yourself". this was I think my fourth, possibly fifth playthrough. I died a handful of times (mostly at the end thanks to the low percentage run softening my health/damage output) and one stupid mistake at the hallucination portion of the game. the only passcode I used was the one for the flame thrower, I picked up a couple notes accidentally but nothing I have never found before. I just don't know what triggered this unless it was the sub-four hour clear time for the trophy.

Wow. That all sounds pretty rad.

I just beat the game for my second time tonight. Normal mode took me about 15 hours the first time and I ended with percentages in the 70s and 80s and then again tonight at 19 hours with 100% in both. I also found I think 4/5 secret worlds because I still need one more small health upgrade to get one more health extension (secret worlds don't count towards 100%.) I got the same ending as everyone else with the same bit after the credits where Athetos shows up and shoots you happening only the second time.

I really have to wonder about the optional boss. I got a Steam achievement (Mercy) presumably for not killing him the first time around, but got absolutely nothing for killing him the second time (he is almost impossible without max health and the Flamethrower). I can't imagine trying to take him on in a no-death run. Or in hard mode. I wonder if beating or not beating him under different conditions will get you different endings or something.

So, I just had an idea - idk if this has been said anywhere yet - considering the inspiration of the game, Metroid, got a lot of ppl to try sequence breaking the game, maybe to get extra ending information, we shouldn't be trying to 100% everything, but instead trying to beat the game skipping as much as possible, with a very low item percentage. I think someone above said they beat it with a low percentage and got a line about "ha, I'm great, I did it" which could make sense - you're intelligent enough to use/break/glitch the system to beat it without all the toolstools, or skilled enough to get by with a couple weapons and no upgrades, and so you get that kind of ending.

What's the *lowest* percentage completion anyone has got?

that was actually from a low item percentage/speed run that I got that ending. from what I have seen, there are only "three" endings, if you count NOT getting a stinger scene after the credits roll. as near as I can tell, there is the "speed run" ending where Athetos tells you that you cannot run from yourself, and the "standard" ending wherein he shoots you. since the endings appear to be triggered by having a "stat" in green, what I REALLY want to do is a zero death, 100% collection speed run and see if I can get everything green and get something new.

"Why does Athetos say he 'can't tell Trace everything, or his captors would kill him (Trace)'? Athetos may know that if he reveals the truth right away, the Rusalki will have to kill Trace, else he would side with Athetos. Instead, he goes along with the lie, but gives Trace a reason to believe Athetos is benevolent, and hopes Trace will be able to stop the Rusalki where he has failed." i found this on the axiom verge wiki,and well,im here to say what happens after that:

athetos shoots trace but he doesnt die,he "WAKE UP" in sudra,and now the rusalki cant kill him with a tought anymore and now you have "athetos"(from earth,the one who shots u) by your side to fight the rusalki.

(im still waiting for someone to get the all green ending so i can get to see more)

probably the game will have a part 2 or something like that.

and some ppl still wonder what the wheelchair(from the "zone 1") is doing there

well,the wheelchair was from trace (not "your" trace,but the one that got his body destroyed[athetos]) but when he got to sudra his body started to heal(thanks to the rusalki) but how he is in such a "debilitated state" in the endgame? well,the rusalki tried to kill him,but they couldnt,all the rusalki could do was "un-heal" him,so,he got all his wounds again and +: he was old

so he was worst than when he got into the sundra,all he had to protect him against the rusalki was those robots that you fight in the end(him self couldnt even move)

Presumably the wheelchair is a result of Trace being shot by Athetos and the reason he later becomes him? It's hard to tell with all the cloning going on if Athetos is an older version of your Trace or just another clone, or the original and you're the clone. I dunno. This game is pretty vague with the narrative. I like it that way.

Agreed, the ambiguity is one of the game's main aspects that I enjoyed.

1st run beat it with something like 94% items, 99% map, with atleast 4 secret worlds, in about 20:13 hours with heat seeker ...(made the last optional miniboss before Athetos more managable and easier to complete than some other bosses..)

Anyways, I joined this forum to comment about the symbolism behind this game as The Master DS has brought to mind a very revealing insight about metaphors to life and the power of storytelling..

To me, I somewhat am gathering the notion that the older Trace, Athetos, was on a quest for immortality.. His pursuit of knowledge led him to exploration of other worlds within worlds, or dimensions....Laser Lab would deal with focused and highly concentrated light, who is to say what happens when we utilize two lasers to converge? There has been numerous research into the subject in regards to harmonics and acoustics. Specifically, there is a video on youtube about sound waves at certain frequencies being able to levitate objects where two sources converge. Elsewhere there is research showing the ability to put out fires with deeper or longer waves akin to bass effect. Another source that further converges with the theme of intersecting varying frequencies of light (electro-magnetic spectrum), would be with the ancient indigenous cultures of Africa and their geometrical 'homes' which contained no windows or entrances. There is evidence that shows these feminine or curved line structures emit a certain frequency, tone or harmonic that amplifies different morphic fields of the Earth, such that they affect the surrounding environment, presence and habitat. This is more vividly revealed with the inability to use satellite phones within these structures. Also GPS coordinates around the structure show a variance of great miles. This being said they have found thousands of 'tools' that these beings used, which ring like a bell when struck. Some of the objects terminate in a conical point. The congruence or inference that Michael Tellinger reveals is the correlation with Coral Sand Castle or Rock Gate in florida, created by one man, Ed Leedskalnin. Some of the coral blocks he quarried weighed over 80 tons. Moved by what many would imply would be frequency modulation of sound/electricity. There is a story about two children witnessing him lift the blocks from the road onto a truck, whose driver was intructed to walk away and come back, with two ice cream cones from his hands. Aligning the two cones and whatever method such as specific sound or electrical frequencies could perhaps reverse the magnetic polarity of anything, allowing it to levitate. This being said, would perhaps allude to the notion of the Annunaki or creator gods (the lowercase gods [plural]) revealed in the bible and the tools they might of utilized given that the weight and size of the stone 'bell' tools found in Africa would better fit the stature of a being being 12-15 feet tall. According to various Sumerian clay tablets translations, these creator gods with a superior science (axiom verge), seeded the human race for the purpose of mining gold from this realm to attempt at saving theirs.... The problem I have with this would be with the implications behind yet another 'theory' and how earth is in quarantine.. To the effect that there is substantial evidence for the avid seeker which points to a Flat Earth model, ala the UN flag (right in our faces..). To wit, the farthest reaching implications of this search reveal the notion of a firmament or dome... beyond the ring of Anartica, which circles the flat earth. In fact history shows there were high altitude nuclear tests carried out by the Soviets and USA back in the late 1950s, some of which consisted of 3.8 megatons (Little Boy used on Japan back in WW2 was only 12-18 kilotons).. One question that comes to mind would be what are we trying to blow up at such high altitude? ...I've most likely lost most people at this point, yet many earth sciences are succinct with a flat earth model, thus yielding far simpler physics or geometry of the universe we live in. Its not my place to convince anyone. But I do hope to inspire deeper inquiry rather than abject denial. In effect it is very very ironic in a lot of ways that the cognitive dissonance the institutionalized world has been indoctrinating us thwarts the facts of what is..

in a lot of ways I find the game to be a great satire or irony about Life. The endings are consistent with the 'playstyle', in that with close to 100% completion reveals Athetos returning to Trace and stating 'it's no use fighting yourself and that it's time to wake up', perhaps a reflection of the persons intent to 'master' or completely beat a proxy or simulated reality aka video game, in which we project our conscious mind. The game in and of itself is a paradox or caught in a catch 22.. In that the ego or Athetos and his pursuit for immortality and the quest of knowledge led to an imbalance and disconnect with the other creative principle, that of the feminine. This can be easily seen in our contemporary culture with the perversion of coitus and the far deeper philosophical ontological notions. If we are subjected to a hyper stimulated reality with excess of the Feminine principle (666), we become too fixated on the physicality of experience and the Yang or masculine principle, as a result, becomes too overbearing.. The sacredness of yin having been convoluted and systematically eradicated with the industrialized machinations of the technocratic world are more succinct with the paradigm of Athetos, having polluted the subtle realms of thought and the pattern mind to such an extent that the 'reality' has led to a warped mutated proxy or Rusalki type of being that is incongruent with the purer organic realm of existence. The vast knowledge and intelligence behind these ascended machine technologies understand the purpose of the human expression and seek to destroy the timeline (viz Steins Gate, Terminator, Days of Future Past, etc) of an inferior 'timeline'. In many ways the clones, such as Trace, could be symbolic of reincarnation and the karmic wheel of samsara, in that this existence of Maya (dream), is a shadow of the true reality, which is harmonic or Light, bringing credence to various religious doctrines and the quest/purpose of enlightenment, to awaken to the ALL, or one universal mind, given that we each are individual monads of source. The Catch 22 is that we cannot utilize the construct of the Mind to escape the illusion of reality, for it is not the power of the mind alone that will avow one the escape velocity to ascend, but that of the Heart or Core aligned with Source being our true power; our emotions are the catalysts of one's experience.

Thus the game plays to our ego. In that it is no use fighting yourself and that it's time to wake up. The world as we know it is undergoing great shifts and changes. Those that are in denial about the instability of the world economy or ecosystem are still asleep.. Yet there will be no escaping 'it'. We all will be affected and will have to choose a side, as we can no longer stay on the fence. Our biology is being catalyzed at very high frequency ranges that is altering our genetic code, should we be aware or allow it, as we align with the center of the 'milky way galaxy' or great central sun. As everything increases in frequency or oscillation rate, the ability for ourselves to manifest our subconsious thoughts becomes greater. There is a choice to align with either the positive or negative polarity. One being the absence of the other. Love is the creative force in the universe and its opposite is fear or separation...

Its been a long hour or so writing this, so I will stop here. Let the reader take heart in knowing that this is just a story. A narrative of ideas, perhaps a reflection of deeper realities that lie hidden before our very eyes. The question is up for you to decide.

If there is one thing I will share that has avowed me greater peace of mind, it is my new found practice of Surya Yoga, Togal, or sun gazing, which is considered perhaps the highest and fastest path to union. Understand Nature and it will reveal the same source, Light out of darkness; two sides to one coin... Mayans considered zero to be the most significant number, as it is out of infinite potential that One arises..

We are the creators in our experience of either heaven or hell... Peace on earth is possible. But like the 100th monkey experiment, we need enough willing beacons to catalyze ones' awareness to be conducive and in harmony with the sacred relations of all our physical, mental, and emotional life experiences.

Practicing truth saying and discernment are key. In the beginning was the Word (Sound). Created in the image (reflective inceptions of first source). Back to purity of word (thought/expression), frees oneself from the dichotomy of duality as one begins to awaken to the greater awareness of ALL that IS.

In Lak'ech,

Love and Light.