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#1 Edited by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

Bummer day today. For fans of the Arkham series, the wait just got longer. So I thought it would be fun to start a thread to speculate on just who the Arkham Knight is. Feel free to use the previous Rocksteady games to support your case or comics, but I do have a theory of my own that came to mind when a commentor thought the Arkham Knight was Batman in a new suit (I guess they did not see the announcement trailer?)

Remember after the events of Arkham City (the Joker and Talia died), Batman is mentally changed, he is angry, in distress, and much darker than usual. This is depicted in the events of the Harley Quinn's Revenge DLC. Combined with the fact that the premise of the newest entry is that the Scarecrow is / or will be pumping hallucinatory toxins into Gotham. This leads me to believe that there is a case for Batman to be the Arkham Knight (Batman is also referred to as the Dark Knight).

So what are your thoughts?

BONUS THEORY:

I would also point out in the above image, that everything, the drones, tanks, goons, etc, have his marking as well. Which means the Arkham Knight is extremely well funded.

This makes me believe that this character character could be Damian Wayne, the son of Batman and Talia Al Gul. Both Ra's Al Gul and Talia died in Arkham City. As mentioned in the Kotaku article, it is implied he has a personal vendetta (for the death of his mom / grandpa) against Batman and he has the money (League of Assassins). Also Azrael did suggest the events of Arkham City led to this event happening.

Secondly (correct me if I am wrong) Damian Wayne is currently dead in the comics, and this could be the way he comes back in the comics as well.

#2 Posted by LTSmash (613 posts) -

Bargain basement Hush?

#3 Posted by michael_katarn (80 posts) -

Jason Todd. This story seems like its riffing on HUSH.

#4 Edited by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@ltsmash: That is possible given that without a doubt Hush will return after the ending of that side mission in Arkham City. If he went through all that trouble to make himself look like Bruce Wayne, why not imitate Bruce Wayne's alter ego as well?

#5 Posted by Zirilius (607 posts) -

Azrael would be my first guess had he not been in City. Probably Jason Todd though.

#6 Edited by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@michael_katarn: Jason Todd seems like such an obvious answer. Plus I believe they have never mentioned the previous Robins in any of the games. Though the game basically is set in pre-52 Batman (since Barbara Gordon is in a wheel chair). I would believe he would exist already too. Plus he has the alter ego of the Red Hood already.

@zirilius: It is possible Azrael will return since he foretold the events of this game in Arkham City. I do not think he is the Arkham Knight though.

#7 Edited by Video_Game_King (36272 posts) -
Master Shake.

#8 Posted by HistoryInRust (6289 posts) -

Don't think they'd ever go as schlock, tonally, as to make the entire fulcrum of the game pivot on the idea that Bruce is hallucinating an antagonist. Or maybe they would, and I'm giving out too much credit.

Jason Todd is super on the nose. Could be Hush, considering he skin-grafted himself a mask of Bruce Wayne at the end of Arkham City. I think the boldest move would be for Rocksteady to stick to their guns and keep the Arkham Knight an original character. Gives them the most freedom to tell their own story.

#9 Posted by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

From Kotaku's write-up:

"Batman dies. Tonight," the Arkham Knight proclaims. "Why do you hate him so much?" replies the other end, who might be Scarecrow. "You can never understand," says the Arkham Knight.

Gives maybe a little insight, that sounds much more personal.

#10 Posted by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

From IGN's write-up:

Rocksteady and Warner Bros. are keeping the identity of the Arkham Knight a secret for now, but, during the course of the game, Oracle mentions to Batman that she’s tracked the mysterious villain back to Venezuela.

Granted this tells us nothing, the character may or not be from there, maybe did a job there, who knows.

#11 Edited by MarkWahlberg (4599 posts) -

Just going off that image, that is 100% Jason Todd.

#12 Posted by SgtSphynx (1331 posts) -

It is likely Hush. He hates Bruce Wayne, and knows he is Batman. The only thing is that Hush just wants to take Bruce's place (and fortune) and I don't recall him ever emulating Batman. Jason Todd is another likely candidate, but I don't recall him hating Batman, he just thinks Batman is ineffective in fighting crime by not killing. Todd is also a little crazy so they could go that way with it. As much as I love Hush as a character, I'm with @historyinrust and hope it's an original character.

#14 Edited by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@sgtsphynx: I edited my OP with a second theory I have. Suggesting Damian Wayne is the Arkham Knight. Which given the events of the games, I think could fit perfectly. Thoughts?

I am also surprised nobody has mentioned the Joker. Given that he has eventually become the primary antagonist in every game so far.

#15 Edited by Jesus_Phish (665 posts) -

Didn't they say this was a 100% new original character that they worked with DC with on creating for the Arkham universe? I'm not ruling out that it'll just be Jason Todd or someone, but there is a possibility that it just ends up being Joe Blogs.

@iigrayfoxii In the comics Damian is currently dead but it looks like they're poised to bring him back, put him in his own series soon enough. The Arkham series seems to run in another universe to the other Batman comics anyway and have very little cross over/interaction with the other comics in the Batman family line.

#16 Posted by jclane (337 posts) -

Owlman or bust.

#17 Edited by michael_katarn (80 posts) -

I'm sticking with Jason Todd

#18 Posted by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@jesus_phish: They did say that this is a new character (and honestly I truly hope that it is) but I think they would say that regardless of who it actually is.

The only thing that suggests to me that the Arkham series is at least modeled after the DC timeline is that Oracle is in a wheel chair and Robin is Tim Drake. After that starting point, it became a separate story / universe.

#19 Edited by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@michael_katarn: Why would they create another persona for Jason Todd? How would they explain that in the Arkham Universe as anyone who just plays the games are totally unaware that there was a previous Robin who died?

Also if your name is a reference to Dark Forces, you get a big thumbs up.

#20 Edited by michael_katarn (80 posts) -

@iigrayfoxii: Of course its Dark Forces :)

Jason Todd has taken on the persona of Batman during the battle for the cowl so it wouldn't exactly be new. Also I don't think it would be that strange to introduce Jason Todd and Dick Grayson to the Arkham games. Besides, I thought I remembered some reference to Nightwing and to Batman losing a Robin in either City or Asylum but I could be mistaken.

#21 Posted by Jesus_Phish (665 posts) -

@iigrayfoxii: I would like to see a new guy myself. And they recently made a brand new character in the Batman universe with Talon so they might have some other ideas on creating a brand new character for the Arkham universe.

#22 Posted by Rodin (167 posts) -

My first impression was that is was the main bad dude from The whole court of owls thing, though I kinda doubt it. But I can understand why someone might think its Todd to.

#23 Edited by michael_katarn (80 posts) -

@rodin: Even if it isn't Todd, the costume design is definitely based on the Jason Todd variant Batman

#24 Posted by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@michael_katarn: Nightwing was a playable DLC character in Arkham City's combat and predator arenas. He did not speak or was not provided a character profile. If you played as Robin in the Jokers Funhouse arena, which the Joker narrates, when you start the arena Joker sometimes says, "Didn't I kill you already?". Though I cannot remember either if it directly is mentioned in the main games at all.

#25 Posted by FriendlyPhoenix (380 posts) -

Rocksteady seems pretty adamant that this is an entirely new character, but then again this is a comic book game so who knows what the fuck that actually means. So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up being Damian.

#26 Posted by Mercury45 (131 posts) -

I'd like it to be Cyrus Pinkney, or someone related to him. That sidequest in Arkham Origins left a lot of unanswered questions, and if they brought that back as the main focus of this game it'd be pretty awesome.

While Damian is a cool idea, wouldn't he be entirely too young to be Arkham Knight? I'm not sure of the exact timeframe the games take place in, but I can't see him being more than like, twelve in the Arkhamverse.

#27 Posted by ProfessorK (820 posts) -

I think it'll end up being Jason Todd or Jean-Paul Valley aka Azrael.

#28 Posted by hermes (1397 posts) -

Damian and Jason are the most likely choices. Some of his lines seems to indicate he knows a lot about Batman, and has the skills to go toe to toe with him in a fight (which kinds of rules out Hush and narrows down the candidates quite a bit).

I think Damian is the most likely choice. He has motives to hate on Batman after the events of City and has the resources to go after him. We still don't know how far into the future of City is, so we can't presume about his age...

#29 Edited by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@mercury45: Cyrus Pickney, does get some traction in Arkham Origins, but I doubt that has anything to do with the core Rocksteady games. As Rocksteady themselves have referred to the franchise as a trilogy.

Damian's age is a concern I didn't think about, but it is hard to say what they have taken / not taken from the DC timeline proper.

Another thing to consider, what is the obsession with the Arkham and the Arkham logo? Why would a villain associate himself with that? Could it be Amadeus Arkham or a descendant of him? Blaming Batman for destroying Arkham?

#30 Edited by CorruptedEvil (2362 posts) -

It's either Jason Todd, Damian Wayne or it's Scarecrow, who was teased in Arkham City as having a big plan and a metric shit ton of fear gas.

Online
#31 Posted by afabs515 (1018 posts) -

It's probably Jason Todd.

It's actually me.

#32 Edited by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@corruptedevil: Well it isn't Scarecrow, because impressions have stated the Arkham Knight is working for / with him.

@afabs515: I should of marked this thread as a question because it just got ANSWERED.

Also if you are going to answer Jason Todd (since his name is brought up more than anybody else), please provide a reason to explain:

  1. Him going from Red Hood to the Arkham Knight
  2. How the game would introduce his backstory considering players of the Arkham franchise would have no idea who he is.
  3. Why Rocksteady / DC would use the same story from the comics.

#33 Edited by I_Stay_Puft (3152 posts) -

Current ESPN sportscenter host and former WWE sideline reporter, Jonathan Coachman.

My second choice would probably be Hush since he escaped at the end of Arkham City trying to steal Bruce Wayne / Batman's identity.

#34 Edited by michael_katarn (80 posts) -

@iigrayfoxii:

1. Red hood hasn't been in the Arkham games. I see this as a non issue.

2. The same way they did with Croc, Penguin, Freeze and every other time a character appeared for the first time in the series. Conversations with Tim Drake, Oracle, or Nightwing can tell the back-story of Todd as Robin. Maybe even a flashback or two.

3. I have no deep insight here but comic books and comic book adaptations very frequently retell similar stories, so I have no answer as to 'Why?' but it wouldn't be out of the ordinary.

Also Maybe the Joker is back as Arkham knight?

#35 Posted by Mercury45 (131 posts) -

@iigrayfoxii: I wouldn't put it past Rocksteady to divert attention from stuff in Origins to hide the plot. Don't forget Riddler's threat of some big secret he was plotting to reveal as well. Maybe the guys who made Origins are planning a game of their own using that stuff? It's hard to say, but I would be surprised if they just leave those mysteries hanging forever.

As for Damian's age, I did a little looking into the stuff about Bruce and Talia in this game and there was a comic book tie-in that delved more into their relationship. I'm not making any definitive statements here, but I'm pretty sure he'd still be a kid in this continuity too.

The "Arkham" connection makes me think of the "Spirit of Arkham" from the first game. No way is Arkham Knight the same character as in Asylum, but there might be something to that?

#36 Edited by LiquidPrince (15901 posts) -

Jason Todd or a hallucination.

#37 Posted by csl316 (8349 posts) -

Dan Ryckert? He seemed to be the frontrunner in that other conspiracy thread.

#38 Edited by crithon (3111 posts) -

he services the same exact plot point as Red Hood, Azreal, dr Hurt and Hush. But my money it's gonna be "hush" like, not exactly but at least in those same themes.

Is there any confirmation on the comic book writer coming in? Paul Dini is sounding really bitter about his experiences with Rocksteady, but Grant Morrison is nothing but positive about them.

#39 Edited by KoolAid (890 posts) -

Even though i can think of lots of great theories... I honestly have no doubt it's the joker. It's always the Joker with these guys.

#40 Posted by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@crithon: Per the Arkham Knight wiki:

In August 2012, Paul Dini, writer of the series' first two games, said he would not be involved in writing a sequel to Arkham City. He did not write any of that game's downloadable content (including the story-based "Harley Quinn's Revenge" DLC), and said that Warner Bros. and Rocksteady suggested he accept other work if offered.[22] Rocksteady opted to use its own team of writers, headed by game director Sefton Hill, and returning writer Paul Crocker, with script elements by Martin Lancaster; Geoff Johns served as a consultant on the plot.

@koolaid: I know, which is why I am surprised you are the first to suggest it. This entire series has been enamored with using him over and over.

#41 Edited by HistoryInRust (6289 posts) -

@crithon: Per the Arkham Knight wiki:

In August 2012, Paul Dini, writer of the series' first two games, said he would not be involved in writing a sequel to Arkham City. He did not write any of that game's downloadable content (including the story-based "Harley Quinn's Revenge" DLC), and said that Warner Bros. and Rocksteady suggested he accept other work if offered.[22] Rocksteady opted to use its own team of writers, headed by game director Sefton Hill, and returning writer Paul Crocker, with script elements by Martin Lancaster; Geoff Johns served as a consultant on the plot.

@koolaid: I know, which is why I am surprised you are the first to suggest it. This entire series has been enamored with using him over and over.

You know, I can't speak for everyone, but for me the Joker-fatigue really came not after City, but Origins. Mostly because I'd felt like the series had said all it wanted to say about the Batman/Joker relationship between Asylum and City, and because Origins had been marketed as a chance to explore some of less notable members of Batman's rogue gallery.

Which brings me back to that probably-silly messiah complex I (and a lot of fans of the series) have for Rocksteady's return. The idea that the franchise, once again in Rocksteady's hands, will be made right, and that their vision will win out. That's hoping, basically, they let the Joker stay gone so that others might be used to fill that void.

If the Knight turns out to be Joker, or is a pawn of the Joker, or is the final piece of some cockamamie conspiracy the Joker had implausibly set out years prior for the convenience of the plot, I might be well-and-truly done with the series from a narrative standpoint.

#42 Posted by Grimmie92 (148 posts) -

Correct my if I'm wrong.. but didn't they specifically say the Arkham Knight is a brand new villain created specifically for this game? so guessing who he is going by what happens in comics seems kinda nonsensical since he has never appeared in a comic ever?

In any case, i cant bring myself to play these games, i fall off them before the story concludes in each one i have picked up so im just gonna ignore this one alltogether

#43 Posted by KoolAid (890 posts) -

@historyinrust: Its funny because origins was actually some of my favorite Joker stuff. I thought the origin stuff was pretty cool. I have no idea why they didn't sell that up front and instead marketed the thrilling fight with...Black Mask?

I can understand it being hard, a lot of Batman villains are really interesting for a fight or a level, but an entire game? I think it would be hard for most of the villains to carry the show for that long.

#44 Posted by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@historyinrust: I hear you, and I highly doubt it will be the Joker. It would nullify the impact of the ending of Arkham City, especially since I believe it will be a interesting narrative going forward of a Batman without his greatest foe (and previous love interest).

@grimmie92: That is correct and it could be a new character. I still believe the villain ties into the events of Arkham City and due to the Arkham logo stapled on him and his men, has a tie to that institution (or its founders / wardens). I mean you could make a case that it is Hugo Strange.

I guess for information sake, the game does take place one year after the events of Arkham City.

#45 Edited by HistoryInRust (6289 posts) -

@koolaid said:

@historyinrust: Its funny because origins was actually some of my favorite Joker stuff. I thought the origin stuff was pretty cool. I have no idea why they didn't sell that up front and instead marketed the thrilling fight with...Black Mask?

I can understand it being hard, a lot of Batman villains are really interesting for a fight or a level, but an entire game? I think it would be hard for most of the villains to carry the show for that long.

I think I agree about Origins. In a vacuum, the character beats they hit with Joker in Origins were pretty neat, but I always felt like they just enumerated some of the things that had always been implied in Bruce and Joker's interactions in the previous games (especially City).

Lots of the villains in Batman's robust and diverse roster are legitimately interesting, and even psychologically threatening, beyond their initial shtick. That includes Black Mask. The ultimate shame of Origins is insinuating we might see a Sinister Six-esque portrayal that highlights the exciting qualities of the characters involved, only to pull the veritable rug out from those characters in service of ground well tread.

#46 Posted by Toxin066 (3271 posts) -

The Ghost of Jason Todd

#47 Edited by Xanadu (336 posts) -

Does anyone know how many years this takes place after Arkham City? EDIT - Maybe it's the jokers son?

#48 Posted by crithon (3111 posts) -

@iigrayfoxii: hmmmmm interesting. Even though Paul Dini has a beloved fanbase I did feel Arkham Asylum and City never felt like his stories. I was left with the impression he wrote dialog for voice acting sessions. Actually there's a lot of comic book writers really unhappy working in video games, Paul Dini is willing to work on anything but he's more famous for his commentary on Cartoon network screwing him over.

#49 Posted by IIGrayFoxII (304 posts) -

@xanadu: Arkham Knight takes place 1 year after Arkham City and 2 years after Arkham Aslyum.

#50 Edited by MariachiMacabre (7069 posts) -

I think it's either Jason Todd or it's Hush. They had Hush in Arkham City, however briefly, and at the end of that questline he looked exactly like Bruce Wayne, so if it has to be one of the two (and it may well be neither) I would prefer Hush. I would like to see Jason Todd but I find that the dynamic between him and Batman is more interesting when they're (strained) allies.

I do not want it to be Joker, and I don't think it will be. I have faith that Rocksteady will stick with their storytelling decisions. At least, I hope they do.