#1 Posted by Verendus (348 posts) -

So The Battlefield Blog gave us some new information on Battlefield 4 multiplayer I thought I'd gather some thoughts about them (At the end of the post) and list confirmed equipment with explanations in Battlefield 4.

Blog entry can be read here: http://blogs.battlefield.com/2013/08/road-to-bf4-field-upgrades/

Without further ado, Let's start with classes.

Assault:

Chinese, Russian and US Assault character models.

Assault is still the frontline run-and-gun kit that also serves the role of combat medic. This was one of the major changes in Battlefield 3 compared to Battlefield 2, and one that players have really appreciated. Assault is still the go-to kit with med kits and defibrillators but has picked up some additional mobility with the First Aid Pack, which heals a single soldier over time, or the 40mm Flash Bang rounds to help clear rooms.

Equipment:

  • Med Kit (stationary)
  • Med Pack (Soldier Clip-on)
  • M320 LVG
  • M320 Flash Bang
  • M320 Buck
  • M320 Slug
  • M320 HE
  • M320 Smoke
  • M320 Incen
  • M26 Buck, Slug, Fletchette, Frag
  • Defib Paddles (Charged 100 percent heal, Quick 20 percent heal)

Engineer:

Chinese, Russian and US Engineer Character models.

Engineer has a lot more variation in anti-vehicle weapons. We’ve also revamped the way we do vehicle disables and guided weapon systems to give the Engineer a broader set of tactics at his disposal. This includes everything from high damage weapons that may be more challenging to use (like RPG-7V2) to fire-and-forget smart weapons with low damage (like the MBT LAW), and the fan favorite Wire Guided Engineer Missile (the FGM-172 SRAW) that you might recognize from Battlefield 2.

Equipment:

  • Stinger/IGLA: (Same as BF3)
  • SRAW: (Laser Guided Missile, Medium Damage)
  • RPG/SMAW (Unguided Rockets, High Damage, Can be laser desginated and fired out of line of sight)
  • LAW (Fire and Forget Lock-on weapon, low damage, can also be laser desginated to fire out of line of sight)
  • M15 AT Mines (same as BF3)
  • M2 SLAM (Off-Route Mines, it fires a 'blast' at an angle directed towards the vehicle that breaches the infrared 'line', hitting the side of the vehicle, think claymore for vehicles)
  • Repair Torch (Same as BF3)

Support:

Chinese, Russian and US Support character models.

The Support kit has a few more offensive options, and thanks to community feedback will retain his C4 and Claymores from Battlefield 3. The XM25 gives him some nice indirect suppressive fire, a redesigned remote mortar allows him to use indirect fire from a distance, and the ability to equip carbines and DMRs gives him an added versatility in combat roles.

Equipment:

  • XM25 Airburst Grenade Launcher (Set the Range by aiming at the cover you wish to shoot behind, adjust so the explodes slightly behind the cover when fired overhead, 25mm grenades)
  • Mortar 225m (Remote controlled this time, has limited ammo also as evident by the spec for indirect firepower extra ammo)
  • C4
  • Claymore
  • Ammo Box (same as BF3)
  • Ammo Pack (Clip on, on the go ammo replishment)

Recon:

Chinese, Russian and US Recon character models.

Recon has gotten a much needed boost to mobility, as well as the return of the Spec Ops play style from Battlefield 2. Pack a carbine, C4 (or Claymores), and Motion Sensors and you’re good to go behind enemy lines. Fans of more traditional sniping roles will enjoy our revamped sniping mechanics with rebalanced Sniper Rifles, the ability to zero your sights (set an aiming distance), and additional optics and accessories. Finally, the Recon players can still utilize the MAV, T-UGS, and Radio Beacon to help out their team.

Equipment:

  • Scope Zeroing (Manually setting your scope to a distance at which you are firing, so center of crosshairs is point of impact, you will have to re-zero everytime you move)
  • MP APS (Man Portable Active Protection System, Also known As Shock Absorber, seems to interfere with guided weapons, its unknown what this will do currently.. if it will stay true to its original function or act more like the trophy system, which disables incoming explosives.. all we know at the moment is its a timed gadget, as evidence by the "MP APS upgrade Specialization) I assume you only get one of them and that its remote activated or something like that
  • MAV
  • Motion Balls (Same as they were in BC2 and Play4Free, limited ammo and battery life, throw them ahead to detect enemy presence)
  • T-UGS
  • Spawn Beacon
  • Claymores
  • C4
  • Laser Designator (Can be used as a mobile laser designator or can be set up like in BF3 at the expensive of mobility)

Field Upgrades:

Field Upgrades are the new specializations in Battlefield 4. You pick a set path of four upgrades which unlock in order as you perform squad actions like resupplies, repairs, healing, and following orders. You can track your progress in the Field Upgrade Progress Bar – or the “Bro Bar” as it has become known internally at DICE.

Field Upgrades are the new specializations in Battlefield 4. You pick a set path of four upgrades which unlock in order as you perform squad actions like resupplies, repairs, healing, and following orders. You can track your progress in the Field Upgrade Progress Bar – or the “Bro Bar” as it has become known internally at DICE.

Full and more detailed info can be found from link I posted above.

List of Field Upgrades in Battlefield 4:

Field Upgrade:Effect:
SPRINTIncreases maximum sprint speed
AMMOIncreases maximum inventory of bullets
C4 EXPLOSIVESIncreases maximum inventory of C4 explosives
COVERDecreases amount of incoming suppression
SUPPRESSIONIncreases the amount of outgoing suppression
FLAKDecreases explosion damage
GRENADESIncreases maximum inventory of hand grenades
(NEW) ROCKETSIncreases maximum inventory of AT (anti-tank) and AA (anti-air) ammo
(NEW) MINESIncreases maximum inventory of AT Mines or M2 SLAM
(NEW) STEALTHPlayer is undetected by Motion Sensors except when sprinting
(NEW) HOLD BREATHIncreases time you can Steady your scope
(NEW) FAST REPAIRIncreases speed and sabotage of Repairs
(NEW) DEFIB UPGRADEIncreases charge up speed of the defibrillators
(NEW) 40mm GRENADESIncreases maximum inventory of 40mm grenades
(NEW) ADVANCED SPOTIncreases time your targets are Spotted
(NEW) MEDKITS UPGRADEIncreases maximum deployed medic bags and packs
(NEW) MOTION SENSORS UPGRADEIncreases the maximum inventory of Motion Sensors. Increases the range of T-UGS and MAV
(NEW) MORE DEPLOYED EXPLOSIVESIncreases maximum deployed Explosives
(NEW) AMMO BAG UPGRADEIncreases maximum deployed ammo boxes and packs
(NEW) ARMORReduces incoming damage to the chest
(NEW) QUICK UNSPOTReduces time you are spotted
(NEW) MEDICAL UNITOccupied vehicles will slowly heal nearby soldiers
(NEW) SUPPLY UNITOccupied vehicles will slowly resupply nearby soldiers
(NEW) REPAIR UNITOccupied vehicles will slowly repair nearby vehicles
(NEW) REDUCED FALLIncreases height you can fall without damage
(NEW) QUICK REGENDecreases time before out of combat heal
(NEW) MP-APS UPGRADELonger uptime on MP APS
(NEW) INDIRECT FIRE UPGRADEIncreases maximum M224 ammo. Increases maximum XM25 magazines
(NEW) CLAYMORESIncreases the maxium inventory of claymores

"Note that we are still in Alpha stage, so all names, designs, and fine-tuning are subject to change. This will give you an idea about the type and variety of specializations in the game. Some of these are universal, some of them are tied to one of the specific playable soldier types – and most of them are all-new to Battlefield 4."

Whew, there we go. Few things I'm excited and/or wondering about.

  • Body Armor? I hope this mostly effects sniper rifles instead of smaller caliber rifles. Considering they've buffed sniper rifles so much now I think this would only be logical. Encourage Recons to pull that headshot. Battlefield players in general didn't seem too excited about this.
  • Are there any gadgets that are forced? Like as a Recon, can I choose C4 and T-UGS or am I forced to choose one alongside with Spawn Beacon?
  • If those aren't forced, will people still carry around med-packs and ammo?

#2 Posted by natetodamax (19208 posts) -

The mobile med kits and ammo packs are a great addition. It was always a pain in BF3 when you had to halt the squad's momentum so that everyone could replenish ammo and heal up. This should allow for much more mobility and forward movement.

#3 Posted by JouselDelka (966 posts) -

Snipers will have C4 and claymores?

Oh boy. Lol.

#4 Posted by Verendus (348 posts) -

@jouseldelka: As a sniper myself I don't getting C4 now that crossbow is gone, but I hoped they wouldn't have given Recon Claymores. Majority of snipers in BF3 were useless cliffwankers, now they have claymores to encourage more camping.

#5 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Snipers will have C4 and claymores?

Oh boy. Lol.

In that specific case, I'd wage it's an either/or proposition.

#6 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

Seems fine as an evolution of BF3. Not yet quite sold on it though. Depending on how *complete* the kits are, regardless of customization (i.e. does the Assault kit always have medpacks and the grenade launcher or not), I guess it's cool for the most parts.

I absolutely hate that there's going to be lock-on weaponry. At least if there aren't any major changes. For example, if lock-on weaponry can lock onto aircraft flying superlow, then it'll be as retarded as in BF3, because there's nothing to do but run away. Skill ceiling zero. If flying low enough shuts down all lock-on attempts, then I'm cool with it. Though all lock-on versus land vehicles is despicable by design.

I really hoped for the return of the Spec-Ops kit, rather than it being included into the Recon kit. That would have allowed for Silencers to be Spec-Ops kit exclusive. Few things were more detrimental to Battlefield 3 than giving silencers to everyone. Really messes with feedback clarity, so instead of great tactical face-offs, firefights turn into a flippin' guessing game, trying to make out the asshole shooting at you in a blurred to shit screen, without proper visual and audio feedback to work with. Oh how I hate it.

I have already resigned to the fact that BF4 is BF3 evolved. I just hope it'll be as fun as BF3 could have been, rather than less so. Still a far cry from the direction I wish for Battlefield, but what am I gonna do. Nobody does what DICE does, so I've got no choice really.

P.S. Also very disappointed in the lack of visual player customization. Clone models in online multiplayer is so last gen.

#7 Posted by Verendus (348 posts) -

@seppli: If I understood correctly you have to keep your sight aimed at the vehicle (Unless laser painted) with lock-on weapons even after you've fired the shot. Just speculation but apparently they toned down the damage a little bit too. I do agree that not having lock-on weapons would be best solution. Recon class should've got crossbow with normal, scan, explosive and a new tracer bolt that works like the tracer dart pistol worked in BC2.

For your complaint about spec-ops being separate class, I have to disagree with. You can play spec-ops with Recon, or customize it to your liking. People often argue that having only 4 classes with customization turns the game into CoD's Create a Class which I disagree with. DICE succeeded limiting classes to 4, having them customizable but yet still having their own roles. The more customization the better, I personally play the objective, with a bolt-action. My kit in BF3 usually was M40A5, S-TAC and Crossbow/T-UGS.If we'd limit "Sniper" into it's own class, odds are it'd have claymores, ghillie suit, a nice comfortable tent and a camping chair. If I'd have to stick with long range equipment, it would really limit my playstyle.

#8 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@verendus said:

@seppli:

For your complaint about spec-ops being separate class, I have to disagree with. You can play spec-ops with Recon, or customize it to your liking. People often argue that having only 4 classes with customization turns the game into CoD's Create a Class which I disagree with. DICE succeeded limiting classes to 4, having them customizable but yet still having their own roles. The more customization the better, I personally play the objective, with a bolt-action. My kit in BF3 usually was M40A5, S-TAC and Crossbow/T-UGS.If we'd limit "Sniper" into it's own class, odds are it'd have claymores, ghillie suit, a nice comfortable tent and a camping chair. If I'd have to stick with long range equipment, it would really limit my playstyle.

Really, spliting the Recon kit into Spec Ops and Sniper would only increase the *definition* of these kits, not reduce playstyles. Definition means clarity instead of confusion. Confusion is the result of bad gamedesign. BF3's kits were severly lacking in the *definition* department. Veteran playstyles like kit swapping suffered for it. I think DICE should revisit their core design paradigms, and find a way back to the elegance of simplicity, without sacrificing complexity. I know I could design such a thing from my armchair, so it must be child's play for the pros.

That's not what's bothering me though (apart from customization making even key gadgets optional, making my life as kit swapper hell). I just believe Silencers/sneaky playstyles have to be limited to one kit. If that is the case in BF4 and stealth options are limited to the Recon kit, then sure - fine by me. I just don't want that any kit can go silenced, because it wreaks havoc on visual and audio feedback; it makes gun rapport extremely spotty and unreliable, which I feel is detrimental to tactical gameplay.

I believe it to be good design, that *going loud* means going overt - putting one's cards on the table. Not as in the silly crutch that is 2D auto spotting as in BF3, but actual feedback via tracers and muzzle flash and noise and so forth - all of which has suffered extremely in BF3 due to the rampant use of silencers, muzzle flash suppressors, and last but not least the blurring and dazing effects of suppression. Between all these factors, the increased average bullet speed (more realistic, less fun - at least to me), and the reduced TTK (time to kill), which on average has you dead one hit sooner than in Bad Comany 2 - firefights have become a lot less skill driven and fun. Reactive gameplay beyond shooting first is pretty much dead.

#9 Posted by Verendus (348 posts) -

Well majority of the gunfights being more about shooting first, aiming later is thanks to brainfart called suppression. Not sure what kit you used, but you can't only imagine how much the random deviation fucks up bolt-actions in the game. Randomness shouldn't play such a major role in FPS games, ever.

I also don't get the point of "sneaky" playstyle limited to one class. Majority of people in BF3 use heavy barrel anyway so when you're using silencer, odds are you're the only one. I also don't think the game needs any major changes on class department, the only thing I would've changed would've split assault and medic to two different classes, otherwise they're fine. As for class descriptions, I think BF4 and future games would have to introduce mandatory tutorial for new players. Half of the players don't know how to spot, assume that if you're sniping you're not included when it comes to requirement of playing the objective. Engineers seem to carry repair torch for themselves and so on.

I think the classes are fine, it's the majority of players who are the problem.

#10 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

P.S. At least *more tracers* is confirmed. Together with the much reduced visual impact of suppression in BF4, it seems that the gunfire rapport aspect of the game will suit me a lot more - and for a fan, every little thing counts.

#11 Edited by SunBroZak (1139 posts) -

Is there still a ridiculous amount of weapon attachments? That was the real bummer for me when I tried to get into BF3. Sure, hide the later weapons behind an leveling system, but don't make me spend hours with a weapon before I can get the sight I want.

#12 Edited by Seppli (10251 posts) -

@verendus said:

Well majority of the gunfights being more about shooting first, aiming later is thanks to brainfart called suppression. Not sure what kit you used, but you can't only imagine how much the random deviation fucks up bolt-actions in the game. Randomness shouldn't play such a major role in FPS games, ever.

I also don't get the point of "sneaky" playstyle limited to one class. Majority of people in BF3 use heavy barrel anyway so when you're using silencer, odds are you're the only one. I also don't think the game needs any major changes on class department, the only thing I would've changed would've split assault and medic to two different classes, otherwise they're fine. As for class descriptions, I think BF4 and future games would have to introduce mandatory tutorial for new players. Half of the players don't know how to spot, assume that if you're sniping you're not included when it comes to requirement of playing the objective. Engineers seem to carry repair torch for themselves and so on.

I think the classes are fine, it's the majority of players who are the problem.

I play all kits, all weapons equally. Got at least 500 kills on all primary weapons except like two guns I didn't get around to yet, and at least 100 kills with every variant of every handgun, and spread my 900 hours between the four kits and the various vehicles pretty much equally. I am borderline obsessive about that really. It's very apparent to me how flawed the overall gun balance is due to the nature of suppression (stacks of suppression get applied per bullet wizzing by, favoring high performance high rate of fire weapons over all others, at most ranges and in most situations).

Indeed random deviation sucks. Nothing like having one shot to take out a threat with a bolty, pulling it off, and have the shot fly off mark due to suppression deviation. The direction of BF3 muddied the direct skill driven gameplay of prior Battlefield games with silly systems and mechanics designed to mitigate skill discrepancies. While they kinda succeeded in that, the game also became a lot less fun to me because of it.

I'm the guy who went XX-Nil frequently in the Bad Company games, achieving flawless rounds - and back then there was no backsies from revives, every death was accounted for. Got hack-u-sations on the regular. All that being a generally pro-active frontline guy and objective pusher, putting style and heroic antics over playing it safe. That's just not how BF3 works. Being pro-active and acting heroic gets you punished. The risk taker is not being rewarded, but systemically held back from excelling due to 2D auto spotting and suppression, as well as the very low TTK. Passive players are favored by shit visibility and extremely unreliable gunfire rapport.

BF3 really is my most hated game of all time.

#13 Posted by Funkydupe (3321 posts) -

I find the classes uninspiring.