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#1 Edited by ViciousBearMauling (897 posts) -

Lets be honest, Indigo Prophecy was a complete shit-show. What could have been a cool murder mystery turned into a giant termite fighting, matrix rip-off, Mayan, alien mess.

Heavy Rain made the decision to not be off the wall bat-shit insane, and that helped, but the game had serious flaws when it came to the plot. Things like the poor use of the

Unreliable Narrator (Kinda a spoiler?)

, atrocious voice acting, Unbelievable character motivations, somewhat questionable use of the female lead

(Get chased by dudes in underwear, fix Ethan's wounds, fix them again, sleep with Ethan, escape evil creepy dude, make yourself look slutty, escape another evil creepy dude, etc)

and huge plot-holes

(Ethan's Black-outs)

Setting all these problems aside, Heavy Rain and Indigo Prophecy (To a lesser degree) got a pass and were considered good games by most people. This was because these story centered games were very rare, to non-existent.

But now, in this post-Walking Dead world we live in, I seriously wonder if David Cage will receive these passes anymore. Who here is excited for this game, and why? Tell Tale has proven that these games don't need a pass. I'll personally buy the game because I want see if this games holds the same ridiculousness that Indigo Prophecy had, but I don't expect a great story because David Cage has always fell short.

Sorry if this is too long, in short, are you interested in this game, and why?

#2 Edited by FluxWaveZ (19308 posts) -

I am. Because they're fun.

I've only played Heavy Rain, but I very much enjoyed it so I bet I'll also enjoy Beyond.

#3 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (897 posts) -

@fluxwavez: That's a fair and simple answer, I guess I should take fun into account, I've never really looked at David Cage's games as "Games" because he had the pretentious idea of putting "Start Movie" in the Indigo Prophecy main menu, haha.

#4 Edited by Grissefar (2842 posts) -

Sure, I'll pick it up at the libeary some time. Should be a good afternoon rump.

#5 Posted by Getz (2989 posts) -

David Cage's games always seem to provoke these kinds of nasty little diatribes from haters (a la Jim Sterling) and I guess it has a lot to do with Cage's persona but I've enjoyed all of his games and I look forward to Beyond.

For me it's all about the atmosphere and the polish of the production. Few games try to just tell a story so these games tend to have a clarity of focus. Heavy Rain really got to me during some of the more intense parts and I liked the way the story just kept going even if you fucked up.

#6 Posted by Quarters (1633 posts) -

I'm still excited. Really loved Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain, and I honestly don't have that many problems with them. And I couldn't care less about the whole "it's just an interactive movie, you can't it a game" stuff. It doesn't matter to me. I just like having good experiences. I don't need a specific amount of "game" to make it fun to me. Beyond looks like a more polished version of Heavy Rain(at least in terms of performance capture, haven't seen a bunch of other stuff from the game yet), so it's kind of a no-brainer for me to be excited about it.

#7 Posted by RonGalaxy (2900 posts) -

Nope, you guys have finally convinced me. Fuck David Cage and his attempt at making something meaningful that many people will get enjoyment out of.

Duders, I have the best idea! We should BOYCOTT that monster and his dirty art. That'll show him and his French ways!

#8 Posted by BaneFireLord (2913 posts) -

I'm not, because I don't have a PS3 and I don't care for quick time events. I kinda find David Cage to be a pretentious ass hat too, but that's neither here nor there; a creator's personality doesn't necessarily dictate the quality of his or her product. If people enjoy his games, I say more power to 'em. Just because it's not my cup of tea doesn't mean it isn't someone else's.

#9 Edited by PSNgamesun (395 posts) -

I will keep buying them but I agree in that post walking dead the criticism on his games will be harsher since Tells made it better. Still I dig how he manages to put the player into situations that feel very intense and crazy, hopefully this next game is a step up.

#10 Edited by Abendlaender (2768 posts) -

@naru_joe93 said:

Nope, you guys have finally convinced me. Fuck David Cage and his attempt at making something meaningful that many people will get enjoyment out of.

Duders, I have the best idea! We should BOYCOTT that monster and his dirty art. That'll show him and his French ways!

So, it's not allowed to talk in a pessimistic fashion about games anymore without getting sarcastic snarky responses?

What exactly did the OP say that's not somehow understandable? It's not like he went "why do u all like the casual movie-crap games? MORE LIKE DAVID GAYGE AMIRIGHT?"

#11 Edited by BisonHero (6227 posts) -

I still contend that someone could fix Indigo Prophecy's story, if they kept the basic premise (and the first like third of the game), but took out all of the prophecy and magic bullshit, and made it so that the reason the murder happens is some kind of cult brainwashing hypnosis, instead of random-ass mystical possession. (I won't even apologize for these mild spoilers; I refuse to respect where that storyline goes).

That game got horrendously bad after the scene at the abandoned carnival, but the elevator pitch of the intro to that game is really great.

Though I agree that TellTale's The Walking Dead is basically the non-shitty version of what David Cage has been trying to do for the last two games. For all the crazy delay between each of his game, Telltale made a much more coherent interactive movie in the span of like 12-18 months, or whatever it took.

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#12 Posted by Humanity (8857 posts) -

They're entertaining and story driven, that's enough for me. Heavy Rain had some huge plot holes but some of the levels, like creeping inside the psychos house, were genuinely exciting.

#13 Edited by HatKing (5833 posts) -

I was blown away by how bad Heavy Rain actually was. I couldn't believe that was the same game I had heard all this hype about. I played it a couple years late, so maybe I just missed some weird window of relevance. But more likely people were just fascinated by a game that was trying something pretty different than anything, and didn't really care that it didn't really do it that well. When it comes down to it, it puts into stark relief exactly why video games and movies are two entirely different mediums. It highlights all the problems that occur when you ignore the obvious differences between a narrative with audience agency versus a narrative that you are witnessing. I'm not saying similar stories can't be told to great effect in both mediums, just that you should exercise the strengths of your medium, not abandon them.

EDIT: So, no. I really couldn't care less Beyond Two Souls. Everything I've seen of it only shows more of a commitment to this flawed mentality.

#14 Posted by Nictel (2380 posts) -

ONLY 70 POKEMONS!

Oh wait sorry, wrong complaint thread. Seriously though, why do some people have so much trouble with David Cage? Did he kill a kitten? Or is he just responsible for games that some people really enjoy and others do not?

#15 Edited by RonGalaxy (2900 posts) -

@abendlaender: why are you assuming I'm not serious? After seeing so many threads like this (some better than others) I Finally realized what a damn fool I've been. Now I TRULY KNOW that I am on the right side of GAMING HISTORY, and that David Cage and his work are a baguette full of lies and failure.

#16 Edited by chrissedoff (2075 posts) -

@hatking: I agree. Cage has never really been rebuked for his narrative and gameplay problems. Counter to all logic, his games have been lavished with critical praise and they've sold quite well. It doesn't really matter if people look back and reassess the quality of the games a couple of years later because Cage has already gorged his ego on all this undeserved prestige and worst of all fans and critics are eager to give him the benefit of the doubt.

#17 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (897 posts) -

@naru_joe93: Sorry if I offended you, but maybe you could pair your sarcastic jab with something that adds to the discussion?

#18 Edited by AMyggen (2597 posts) -

@nictel: I think much of the reason why people who don't like his games go out of their way to explain why, is because of David Cage himself. Stuff like "I've always felt that 'game over' is a state of failure more for the game designer than from the player" etc. He always promises a lot from his games, and when people don't like them, they tend to call him out. There's also some people who regard him as a complete hack who gets way too much credit in the gaming press just for trying something different, when the stores he writes are mediocre at best.

Personally, I think IP is an absolute train wreck of a game. It starts okay, but about 40 % through the game it goes to absolute shit. I have no problem with supernatural elements in story telling if there's context to it, but IP just introduces shit left and right with absolutely no context. And then it turns into a story about the main character being The Chosen One, the cop lady (it's been a while, don't remember the names) falls in love with him for absolutely NO REASON, mayans, Matrix aliens etc. For the amount of effort put into the game, it's one of the worst games I've played.

Heavy Rain is better. The story is pretty basic noir stuff, the voice acting leaves a lot to be desired and I don't like the way it plays. I like a couple of the characters. My main problem is how the unreliable narrator structure of the game imo creates some plot holes that I just couldn't get over.

For me, Cage is a very mediocre writer. He should get credit for trying something different, but he's never pulled it off. I'm still interested enough in Beyond to try it out though, I'll probably borrow it from a friend or something.

#19 Edited by chrissedoff (2075 posts) -

@nictel It's because he gives talks in which he lambastes video games for their immaturity and casts himself as the man who's going to save the medium, but his games are chock full sci-fi BS, titillation, poorly drawn characters, implausibility and plot holes. And weak gameplay. It's a toxic blend of arrogance and obliviousness.

#20 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (897 posts) -

@psngamesun: While part of me wishes that the game is ridiculous and silly, part of me also wants this game to be a step up. I'll gladly admit that Heavy Rain had it's moments, like the end of the drug dealer challenge and the driving challenge. But overall David Cage's games fall short, and it's disappointing.

#21 Posted by Tarsier (1057 posts) -

you can tell by watching the videos of the man himself and his games that his games are not worth renting or buying, i never had this problem of 'losing interest' cause it was never really able to form in the first place

#22 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (897 posts) -

@amyggen: Oh god I love that quote, "I've always felt that 'game over' is a state of failure more for the game designer than from the player"

It's not like IP had game overs..... Oh wait.

#23 Posted by MideonNViscera (2257 posts) -

@fluxwavez: That's a fair and simple answer, I guess I should take fun into account, I've never really looked at David Cage's games as "Games" because he had the pretentious idea of putting "Start Movie" in the Indigo Prophecy main menu, haha.

haha Ok fuck this David Cage guy.

#24 Edited by Nictel (2380 posts) -

@chrissedoff: @amyggen: That makes sense, see lately I have only seen posts that were basically 'fuck David Cage' without any reasoning, hence my question. I didn't know the history behind it. Though it seems a bit irrational that some seem to hate the game before it gets out. I enjoyed Heavy Rain despite its flaws and I'll probably enjoy this too.

#25 Edited by AyKay_47 (293 posts) -

I'm still waiting for David Cage's Don't Shit Your Pants.

In all seriousness though, they're not the best games but they're always something different, and barring bad voice acting, they're very well produced. One thing I remember being particularly impressed by in Heavy Rain was the VR sequence when the detective character puts on those funky glasses.

Regardless of whether or not you like his games, I'm pretty sure a lot of people are still quite interested in seeing more of them. I wouldn't be surprised to see Beyond on people's GOTY lists thanks to production quality and a crazy story with a twist.

#26 Edited by AMyggen (2597 posts) -

@AyKay_47 His games have always been well-recieved in the press, so I don't doubt it.

#27 Posted by Stonyman65 (2604 posts) -

I like them. They have their quirks, but I've always found them fun and entertaining. The stories, while dumb, are kind of interesting.

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#28 Edited by Zalrus9 (107 posts) -

I've never played a David Cage game before, and I don't really plan to, as that's not really my thing, and I don't have a PS3 (or any non-portable console for that matter), but his design philosophy kind of rubs me the wrong way. My favorite games are ones where the narrative comes out of the gameplay (a la XCOM or even Papers Please), I don't know, he seems to think he's the Nietzsche of video games, and people in the games industry like him and even Jonathan Blow make me a bit miffed. I mean, I guess we need pretentious people to make advancements (I hate John-Luc Godard and David Mamet, but they could have arguably advanced their respective mediums), but I'm not going to buy his games. Whatever.

Although I do want to see his take on Don't Shit Your Pants. I'd play that.

#29 Edited by Abendlaender (2768 posts) -

@naru_joe93 said:

@abendlaender: why are you assuming I'm not serious? After seeing so many threads like this (some better than others) I Finally realized what a damn fool I've been. Now I TRULY KNOW that I am on the right side of GAMING HISTORY, and that David Cage and his work are a baguette full of lies and failure.

Okay, so you are not actually interested in a discussion, got it.

#30 Posted by ViciousBearMauling (897 posts) -

@mideonnviscera: Yup, it's hard to like him when you know about the pretentious shit he does. HAHA

#31 Posted by zombie2011 (4968 posts) -

I don't like them.

As for Heavy Rain, the only thing that game had going for it was the story and they messed that up. I don't understand how you could have such bad voice acting and huge plot holes when the only thing your game has is a story.

#32 Posted by Barrabas (325 posts) -

All I hope for is that Beyond Two Souls has a flashback scene where you play as the child version of your character playing hide and seek, and then something terrible happens. His last two games had that. Let's keep that weird ass trend going.

#33 Edited by ZeForgotten (10397 posts) -

I am!
I never had a problem with any of his games because I don't expect something from them that they were never intended to be.
I'm just there for the ride!

#34 Posted by kpaadet (410 posts) -

@amyggen:

Oh god I love that quote, "I've always felt that 'game over' is a state of failure more for the game designer than from the player"

It's not like IP had game overs..... Oh wait.

So hes not allowed to criticize himself now?

#35 Posted by MideonNViscera (2257 posts) -

@kpaadet said:

@viciousbearmauling said:

@amyggen:

Oh god I love that quote, "I've always felt that 'game over' is a state of failure more for the game designer than from the player"

It's not like IP had game overs..... Oh wait.

So hes not allowed to criticize himself now?

It's still a super douchebaggy quote. Whoever said that hide and seek thing may have made the thread haha

#36 Posted by StarvingGamer (8031 posts) -

My fiance and I are excited. We had a lot of fun playing Heavy Rain together.

#37 Posted by ProfessorEss (7281 posts) -

Not my thing but to each their own.

...making something meaningful

Define meaningful. That's kind of my problem with Cage. He says stuff like this, his fans echo stuff like this but all I see is run-of-the-mill videogame writing and performances set to a series quick time events.

#38 Posted by Angouri (231 posts) -

@starvinggamer: good point. I loved heavy rain (played it the first time when sick start to finish). But what really endeared the game to me was being able to share it with friends and family outside of my gaming circle and watch their reactions and have them "direct" the game. Made the game thrilling and enjoyable.

And the atmosphere of the game was cool. I liked the twists in the plot, and was sad that they never made the dlc they had planned. I look forward to taking beyond home this holiday and playing it with my family. I'm not playing his games for mechanics; I don't think fixing the movement in heavy rain would make it so much better.

#39 Edited by Hunkulese (2652 posts) -

It's kind of funny how most of the people complaining about how shitty Cage's game also say they're planning on buying Beyond.

#40 Posted by beeftothetaco (420 posts) -

I'm not buying Beyond. David Cage is a pretentious man-child who likes to criticize the industry and people who buy video games when his don't sell as much as he would like. He can take a hike.

#41 Posted by Strife777 (1503 posts) -

I like his games, because they do something different. Call them what you want, but you can't deny they have an identity of their own. I can't wait to play Beyond and I enjoyed Heavy Rain.

#42 Edited by Manhattan_Project (2119 posts) -

Im interested in them but fuck no im not falling for the hype again. Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain were great for about the first half and then fell of a cliff.

To everyone saying they enjoyed it as a game, Cages whole point is to not just make a game but tell a great story. Im pretty sure he would take that as an insult. And I would argue the gameplay without the great story sections has never been anything special.

#43 Posted by yinstarrunner (1182 posts) -

Video games trying to be movies is not a new thing. The problem David Cage's games have is the same as the rest of them: The writing isn't anywhere close.

#44 Posted by SlashDance (1806 posts) -

It seems weird to me that a lot of people can't express an opinion on Quantic Dream's games without saying how much of an asshole David Cage is first. As if him being a dick had anything to do with the quality of his games.

#45 Posted by Nasar7 (2608 posts) -

I loved Heavy Rain, so yeah, I'm looking forward to Beyond.

#46 Edited by BisonHero (6227 posts) -

@barrabas said:

All I hope for is that Beyond Two Souls has a flashback scene where you play as the child version of your character playing hide and seek, and then something terrible happens. His last two games had that. Let's keep that weird ass trend going.

We can also assume that the game will contain a variation on this scene:

Omikron: The Nomad Soul (directed by David Cage)
Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy (directed by David Cage)
Heavy Rain (directed by David Cage)

It just wouldn't feel like a David Cage game if he didn't insert a scene where male players can eyefuck an attractive woman in white underwear and white tank top.

I'm interested in playing Beyond: Two Souls, but whatever, David Cage, you're a pervy weirdo.

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#47 Edited by RonGalaxy (2900 posts) -

@professoress: well, you cut off the most important part of what I said which was the word "attempt". And the attempt to add meaning is an important first step to getting me on board for a game.

And do I find meaning in his games? Sometimes! The part in heavy rain where you're alone in a small apartment with your son, trying to balance feeding him, making sure he does his homework, asking him about his day/interacting with him, and getting him to bed on time was a pretty emotional thing for me (one of the most emotional things I've experienced in a game)because failure didn't result in a lose state, it resulted in hurting the relationship a father shares with his son. It made me think about my dad, the struggles he's faced as a father, and our relationship. Very few games illicit that kind of emotional pondering from me

Then there are the times where his work fails, like weird accents and questionable plot holes. But even in failure his style stands strong and the resulting product is something weird, fascinating, and worth experiencing, even if just for the failures (that's not why I'm in it though).

I also appreciate the odd/quirky sense of humor his games give off. Kind of reminds me of David Lynch's work, another divisive artist.

At the end of the day, his worst is a hell of a lot more intriguing than that of other devs, and that's a very valuable asset to the medium.

#48 Posted by DeShawn2ks (1052 posts) -

This guy right here. There are things I don't like about his games but I always loved them.

#49 Edited by TheManWithNoPlan (5266 posts) -

I know I am. Beyond looks like a fun weekend game.

#50 Posted by 49th (2696 posts) -

Why would I not be? There have only been a few of them, I find them infinitely more interesting than another shooter.