Active disgust of pc gaming and pc gamers on the bombcast

I respect other people's views. I get many of the ideas put out by Ryan and Jeff on the bombcast about pc gaming. But in the last bombcast it has become very apparent that Jeff in particular has a strong distaste and perhaps disgust of pc gaming and even pc gamers. Are pc gamers really that different from console gamers? Do people really think that all pc gamers are pirates? Do they believe people who pirate games ever intended to buy them? Their complete disregard for innovative new games on pcs (world of goo which came out on the pc first), steam sales and the fact that people (who they seem to think are strange and unusual) enjoy RTSs, clan gaming (the importance of dedicated servers) and other pc centric games is becoming just annoying rather than quirky or informative. Any case about PC gaming on the bombcast seems to revolve around ridicule and general ignorance of the platform. I don't mind if others comment on me being an idiot or wrong, but am i only one who feels that pcs have no friends on giantbomb.com.  
 
I would like to add that i own a 360, love halo, actively use system link and love splitcreen gaming.

You are wrong. GiantBomb has Dave Snider.
(No, the PC doesn't get a whole lot of love on the bombcast, I just like to poke fun.)

I would highly recommend you listen to that part again. He was not bashing PC gamers. He was saying that it doesn't make that much sense to publish on PC because more people pirate it than actually pay for it. He is right of course. There are many great things about the PC and the PC market, but its seems almost irresponsible to put your game out on the market for PC

Try not to let it bother you, in the over view it doesn't really matter. I haven't listened to the latest bombcast yet but if they are projecting a stereotype that you don't like just shrug it off and keep enjoying the platform regardless of what they think.

Don't take it personally man. PC gaming isn't for everyone, I for one do a bunch of gaming on my PC but for many the costs involved are too prohibitive. I don't think GB has an anti PC stance at all though since Brad and Vinny used to talk a lot about all their impulse purchases on steam. I do get the impression though that Jeff and Ryan are very much console exclusive gamers, no biggie that's their choice even if it is a bit unusual for someone who reviews games for a living.

" You are wrong. GiantBomb has Dave Snider. "

" @punkxblaze said:

" You are wrong. GiantBomb has Dave Snider. "

^ Dave is an Advocate for all PC Gamers worldwide.  "

Yeah, I feel like that isn't entirely their actual opinion, but the sort of radical opinion that arises in groups. You know, where one small negative thing leads another to say another, which makes it a "thing" to voice complaints about a certain subject to the point where the entire group has to all out bash the subject.
But yeah, they don't really cover/care about pc gaming. I assume it's just because that's not how they played games before, they didn't grow up in a pc-centric sort of environment. That's just how they are, they have their opinions that, I am gonna say, are wrong. But, like, I have my opinions that are pretty wrong too, I'm sure. So whatever. People is people.

  He's looking at it from the publisher's point of view.  Whenever Jeff talks about gaming like it's a business, people seem to get upset.

There's definitely an industry undercurrent which is unfairly lambasting PC as a gaming platform these days and Giantbomb being a gaming press outlet are bound to be reflecting some of that in their comments.  In practice, however, they promote, quicklook and even review some games on the PC.  They even made a pretty big deal about getting a decent gaming PC.  I don't think it's literally as bad you might think it is. 

      
You should check out Tested.Com, seems to be more PC centric, I know what you mean, The site is mainly 360 centric PS3 2nd, Wii then PC, And Wii gets Lambasted more often than not,  
 
But, hey, It's their website, their views, we just watch, listen and read.

@sdauz
 
     I have no idea where you got the sense of hatred from anyone on the Bombcast about PC gaming.  As far as I've gathered from past bombcasts,  Jeff and a few others grew up gaming on PC's as well as consoles.  Yeah the stuff he talked about recently was just dealing with Ubisoft's DRM which I'd have to agree with.  My PC is still my main gaming machine and I was actually waiting to see how AC2 and the new Splinter Cell game would turn out.  Definitely if they're still dealing with this fail DRM solution I'd probably pass and not deal with that headache.   Where in the past has there been disregard for steam and innovative new games for the PC?

I'm not suprised, gametrailers and giantbomb for their media is very anti pc. Yet even if that's true, both site for their forums has alot of pc gamers.  
 
Look, we pc gamers are aware ppl doesn't like pc gaming, we are used to it, however we are still playing some of the best looking games at higher resolutions than most ppl. We are okay with that and we are fully aware of the decline in pc gaming and the piracy going on or how the media sees pc gamers and pc gaming.

I kinda picked up that vibe as well. There was quite a bit of truth in their argument, but I was still kinda miffed by the way they seemed to group all PC gamers together.

Jeff and Ryan are console kiddies.

Thanks guys, lot of great opinions, a lot of which i agree with.  Seriou@SeriouslyNow said:

" There's definitely an industry undercurrent which is unfairly lambasting PC as a gaming platform these days and Giantbomb being a gaming press outlet are bound to be reflecting some of that in their comments.  In practice, however, they promote, quicklook and even review some games on the PC.  They even made a pretty big deal about getting a decent gaming PC.  I don't think it's literally as bad you might think it is.  "

" Yeah, I feel like that isn't entirely their actual opinion, but the sort of radical opinion that arises in groups. You know, where one small negative thing leads another to say another, which makes it a "thing" to voice complaints about a certain subject to the point where the entire group has to all out bash the subject. But yeah, they don't really cover/care about pc gaming. I assume it's just because that's not how they played games before, they didn't grow up in a pc-centric sort of environment. That's just how they are, they have their opinions that, I am gonna say, are wrong. But, like, I have my opinions that are pretty wrong too, I'm sure. So whatever. People is people. "

" You are wrong. GiantBomb has Dave Snider. (No, the PC doesn't get a whole lot of love on the bombcast, I just like to poke fun.) "

Don't worry, they just hate you. Seriously though, the Bombcast guys just have opinions on certain genres and/or platforms and don't hesitate to spread them around. If you think about it, their hate is never really unwarranted. The only time they offend people is when they are fans of the particular genre or platform even though it has some glaring flaws. It's a tough choice, but the guys made the choice to be vocal about what they feel, and some people are obviously not going to like that. Personally, I have no problem with it.

PC gaming has been in a slow decline for some time now, and basically excels in only a few niche areas over consoles. As user interface improvements on consoles continue (we've seen massive innovation in console game UI over the last few years, and I'm surprised we haven't seen more discussion of it) then PC gaming will continue to lose its edge. Basically, there needs to be a fundamental change in PC game distribution to deal with the piracy issue so devs feel comfortable releasing on the PC. There simply hasn't been a lot of innovation on the PC, because the developers have focused on the larger, more stable market on consoles.
 
I think GB's attitude toward PC gaming reflects the general opinion of gamers right now, which is definitely console-focused. I don't think they hate PC gaming, it's just that the best gaming titles aren't available on the PC anymore.
 
It's really too bad. I grew up as a PC gamer, and still play a lot of games on my PCs. I'd love to see a PC gaming resurgence. But right now, I'm not seeing signs of that. Consoles are where gaming is at, at least for the moment, and GB's attitude reflects that.

"   He's looking at it from the publisher's point of view.  Whenever Jeff talks about gaming like it's a business, people seem to get upset. "

last time i said this i got blasted for it, but again... out of everyone I know that plays games actively, about 5 or 6 people, 4 are PC only players and they pirate all their games, one has a wii and also pirates that, one of them has a ps3 but regulary asks if games are on pc too so he can pirate them (recently he asked if heavy rain was ps3 exclusive). I'm the only one that doesnt have a gaming pc, only 360 and ps3, so im the only one that actually buys games. 
 
Im not trying to be some sort of champion or anything, just stating a fact. Maybe the situation in america is different, but like I said, everyone i know that plays on PC (and Wii) pirates their games.

" last time i said this i got blasted for it, but again... out of everyone I know that plays games actively, about 5 or 6 people, 4 are PC only players and they pirate all their games, one has a wii and also pirates that, one of them has a ps3 but regulary asks if games are on pc too so he can pirate them (recently he asked if heavy rain was ps3 exclusive).

" @Rhaknar said:

" last time i said this i got blasted for it, but again... out of everyone I know that plays games actively, about 5 or 6 people, 4 are PC only players and they pirate all their games, one has a wii and also pirates that, one of them has a ps3 but regulary asks if games are on pc too so he can pirate them (recently he asked if heavy rain was ps3 exclusive).

How old are you guys? I am turning 27 and I stopped pirating PC games about 1997 because it wasn't longer "kewl", just incredibly dumb. I bet your friends are 19 max. "

I have noticed before myself. PC and Wii owners will forever face the brunt of mockery on this site, you'll have to get used to it. 

it basically comes down to free against 70euros for a game for them "

" @Rhaknar said:

it basically comes down to free against 70euros for a game for them "

In that case, they are just incredible naive and soon they will have nothing left to pirate. Of course, they will deny this until it's too late. "

And I am amazed by the denial that there is no rampant piracy of XBox 360 games. Ya'll play innocent but you are not.

" And I am amazed by the denial that there is no rampant piracy of XBox 360 games. Ya'll play innocent but you are not. "

" And I am amazed by the denial that there is no rampant piracy of XBox 360 games. Ya'll play innocent but you are not. "

"I would highly recommend you listen to that part again. He was not bashing PC gamers. He was saying that it doesn't make that much sense to publish on PC because more people pirate it than actually pay for it. He is right of course. There are many great things about the PC and the PC market, but its seems almost irresponsible to put your game out on the market for PC "

" Try not to let it bother you, in the over view it doesn't really matter. I haven't listened to the latest bombcast yet but if they are projecting a stereotype that you don't like just shrug it off and keep enjoying the platform regardless of what they think. "

"I think this is the important factor; people always seem to get upset when people insinuate that the PC market isn't nearly as lucrative as the console market. As much as we don't want that to be true (I'm a formerly pure-PC gamer who has shifted to play primarily console games due to the greater number of available titles, and the fact that my friends play it), it sadly is, and that is what Jeff was talking about, rather than an active dislike of PC games and gamers. "

" @atomic_dumpling said:

" And I am amazed by the denial that there is no rampant piracy of XBox 360 games. Ya'll play innocent but you are not. "

Hmm, the fanboyism is strong with this one.  Seriously, you cannot compare PC piracy and console piracy. The numbers don't lie. Modern Warfare 2 was pirated about four times as much as the 360 version, and five times as much as the PS3 version.

i dunno they feel pretty equal opportunity to me, they're just not as restrained as other people might be where they think "oh pc gamers listen to this, let's not say it's a dead platform full of pirates" or "oh 360 gamers listen to this let's not bring up red rings or 90% of xbox live". they're well known stereotypes, it's not like a long list of personal reasons why he hates pc gaming, and you never see threads like this when they bring up steam sales or mention pc games. just don't be so sensitive.

I'm a pc gamer, but you really have to go out of your way to take some personal affront when the Bombcast starts talking about piracy.

"   He's looking at it from the publisher's point of view.  Whenever Jeff talks about gaming like it's a business, people seem to get upset. "

Eh this shit again.

I also find find the proportion of business talk to gaming talk perfectly fine and in fact informative and interesting. If you don't like it I'd suggest finding another website/podcast.

I'm a PC guy and honestly i think their opinions refreshing. I know that the dudes have steam and they buy some sick ass games. I know that i advised dave snider recently about computer upgrades. These guys don't hate PCs or PC gamers, they poke fun at them like they poke fun at me for being English. 
 
come to think of it i get picked on a lot by these guys >_>;; SONOFABITCH!

" @atomic_dumpling said:

" And I am amazed by the denial that there is no rampant piracy of XBox 360 games. Ya'll play innocent but you are not. "

Hmm, the fanboyism is strong with this one.  Seriously, you cannot compare PC piracy and console piracy. The numbers don't lie. Modern Warfare 2 was pirated about four times as much as the 360 version, and five times as much as the PS3 version. Yes, people were angry at Activision and IW, but the point still stands. Nobody is saying the 360 is in danger because people pirate games on it, so obviously it's not as significant of a percentage as the PC. If that were the case, Sony would be top dog in the console market and people would only be developing games for the PS3. It doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. "

It's just the popular (and populist) stance to take isn't it?  I don't really care, I'm just used to it now because it's been the same for years.  The whole debate is pretty much binary at this point; 'PC gaming is fucked!' or 'Everything is fine!'.  Console-centric sites blindly take the former position (which generally endears them to their audience) and PC-centric sites blindly take the latter position (ditto).  There is virtually no considered or intelligent discussion about it going on anywhere.
 
Neither of those absolute positions are entirely correct.  You can instantly disprove the theory that 'It's stupid to release games on PC at this point', by just saying 'So why do they keep doing it?  Why are they even switching some franchises from console-only to console+PC?', on the flip side, it's obvious that everything isn't as healthy as it perhaps could be.  
 
People need to realise that in reality there is a huge middle ground between those two positions, where a game can be both pirated and profitable, and that so long as it remains profitable despite the piracy, they will continue to release their games on the PC.  The sales numbers alone can also be quite misleading - eg. if I buy a digital download of Dragon Age or ME2 from EA's site, they're probably making as much money from that as they are from 2 or 3 retail console sales.   The question publishers are dealing with isn't 'How do we make PC gaming profitable?', it's 'How do we make it as profitable as we possibly can?' - and they'll keep trying out different methods until they figure out what works and what doesn't.  You'll know when PC version stop being profitable because they just won't release them at all - no contrived excuses, they'll just stop.

I love when a post of reason and insight gets immediately followed up by one of ignorance and stupidity:
 
@Jimbo said:

"...(reason and insight)..."

"...(ignorance and stupidity)..."

A lot of PC gamers tend to be very elitest and come off as acting superior and smug.  It's unfair to stereotype all PC gamers that way, just as it would be for any console fanatics.  But when it comes to fanboys, PC ones tend to be the worst because of this, so I can't really say I blame them for how they feel.

" I got to say I feel the same way that Pc gamers generally they are stuck in the past and just dont see the innovation of the consoles and the ease of a unified system like xbox live. They bang on about how much the mouse cant be replaced yet theyve never even picked up a 360 controller long enough to realise just how well it does work. Worst of all they go on about obvious things like how the pc graphics will always be better, well thats all fine and well accept there is nothing but Crysis to hit home on this argument and even thats being developed on consoles now. I remember my PC friend bragging to me that 2009 was going to be the year of pc because of  StarCraft, well its 2010 now and its still not out and really? A better looking remake is supposed be a revolution. The only thing that seems to drive them now is nostalgia for games like Diablo 3 seriously just grab a console and start having a more enjoyable gaming life instead of being misrable. "

• CryEngine3 is developed on PC, it's just that Crytek are now making it multiplatform because it's good for licensing and other purposes to do so.  Crysis 2 will obviously look and play best on PC.  All FPS games are like that.
• StarCraft is a hugely popular game all over the world and SC2 isn't a remake, it's a sequel; new races, weapons, game modes and so on.  
• The PC games market is driven by innovation and always will be.  CounterStrike, DoD and a ton of other games come directly from the modding community which is simply not possible on closed systems like consoles.

I don't know. A lot of "PC gamers" are just flat-out pirates. And all they said on the Bombcast was that if a publisher thinks releasing a game on the PC hurts their sales, they probably shouldn't put the game out on the PC.  
 
And yeah, Assassin's Creed (the first one) sold 40 000 copies on the PC. Really impressive, huh? Has nothing to do with PC pirates, right?

PC gamers tend to be very bitchy and just weird when it comes to talking about the state of PC gaming. It's like anything you mention is automatically wrong.

All Jeff/Rest of Staff are saying is that in this day in age with all the pirates and how easy it is to down load and get working, is that people should just stop making PC games or at the very lest that it is not worth while. and they are right.

This is being taken crazy out of context. If there was any disgust for anything, its disgust aimed at the situation that games being made for the PC are placed in. Both on the side of publishers, AND the consumer. 12 year old kids that have yet to figure out the way the world actually fucking works will sit there and say that publishers and developers make enough money and DRM is dogshit. Of course DRM is dogshit, but what fuck are they supposed to do? Pirating is stealing, that's it. Its like walking right into one of their offices and walking right out with one of their computers. Would they let you do that without doing anything about it? Fuck no. Are they going to let people pirate their shit without doing anything? Fuck no.
 
1. DRM only really hurts people who legitimately purchase games. Yes - Something which the guys on the podcast said.
2. Publishers and developers need to be able to protect their intellectual property, this is something that is well within their rights. 
3. Ubisoft's DRM application is intrusive and Draconian to the fucking extreme, and for the first few days that the "service" was launched, what they stated could never fucking happen, was the exact thing that DID happen, and the person that hurt the most was the person that forked over their 60 bucks for the game. Again, hurting the people that just want to play the damned game - also  pointed out in the bombcast.
 4. There's a conflict of interest now - On the one hand, publishers and developers want their products to make money first, and want their client base to be happy. Customers just want to pay for their shit, and play it without having to deal with a bunch of fucked up issues that are completely beyond their ability to control. In the end, as a publisher, if the only way you can make sure that you're products aren't being stolen is to have a program on someone's machine constantly checking up on them like a parent looking over a childs shoulder every fucking hour to make sure their minds are not tainted by the dredges of the internet, then what the fuck is the point?
 
The point Jeff was trying to make is the situation sucks. At some point, he points out rather intelligently, if they are losing so much money to Pirates that this is their only solution, what the fuck is even the point of even developing for the platform? You're not happy as a publisher, your legitimate customers are not happy, and you're sitting there like an ass proving the pirate's point - that DRM is fucking bullshit and who in their right mind would even bother paying for the game, when the free version is less than a pain in the ass to deal with?

No one on the podcast is berating PC gamers, or PC gaming, they're just trying to get the point across that the situation as a whole sucks. It sucks for people who just want to play the games and it sucks for the people making the games. The situation just fucking sucks ass.

I'm fine with PC gaming and gamers, I only pick on them when they start talking shit about consoles. Which they do. Often. I don't know why they just don't shut the fuck up about their machine and just buy a console as well to experience some genres other than FPS and RTS.

" I got to say I feel the same way that Pc gamers generally they are stuck in the past and just dont see the innovation of the consoles and the ease of a unified system like xbox live. They bang on about how much the mouse cant be replaced yet theyve never even picked up a 360 controller long enough to realise just how well it does work. Worst of all they go on about obvious things like how the pc graphics will always be better, well thats all fine and well accept there is nothing but Crysis to hit home on this argument and even thats being developed on consoles now. I remember my PC friend bragging to me that 2009 was going to be the year of pc because of  StarCraft, well its 2010 now and its still not out and really? A better looking remake is supposed be a revolution. The only thing that seems to drive them now is nostalgia for games like Diablo 3 seriously just grab a console and start having a more enjoyable gaming life instead of being misrable. "

"

I don't know. A lot of "PC gamers" are just flat-out pirates. And all they said on the Bombcast was that if a publisher thinks releasing a game on the PC hurts their sales, they probably shouldn't put the game out on the PC.  
 
And yeah, Assassin's Creed (the first one) sold 40 000 copies on the PC. Really impressive, huh? Has nothing to do with PC pirates, right?

"