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#1 Posted by PooPooKaKaBumBum (7 posts) -

Regarding the GOTY discussion:

It was really encouraging to hear you guys talk about games with flaws and discount Mortal Kombat off the GOTY list because of its broken state.

Then when the conversation turns to Skyrim, Brad literally pulls every reason he can out of his ass to make excuses for Skyrim's broken state.

He discounts every single example Jeff states from his own personal experience from the game as untrue. (Tired of fighting ice guys)

He literally makes a comparison that one bug he found in Saints Row are comparable to Skyrim's massive, documented list of bugs.

Choice Brad quotes: (These are verbatim)

"Let's be honest - the game is not destroyed".

"If we were waiting to play that game, it's because we valued the experience so much that we were waiting for it to be optimal".

"One internal QA dept. versus ten million people testing your game".

The PS3 version remains unplayable. No one. Not one single person. Nobody was waiting because they valued the experience. Nobody is waiting now.

The stuff Brad is pulling out of his ass to make excuses for Bethesda is unbelievable.

Is Brad seriously suggesting it's the consumer's job to bugtest Bethesda's games for them?

I can't fault Brad and Patrick for their personal preferences, but it's extremely hypocritical to take MK off the list and then turn around and just ignore the PS3 version of Skyrim for the GOTY.

The issues are inseparable. You can't just remove one and talk about the other.

Also, where was Vinny's rage about the online pass for Batman AC during the GOTY discussion? This is another issue that is inseparable from the game.

We've reached a point with gaming "journalism" where we need to see something other than sites happily shilling for game companies in return for early access. And to be fair, it's hardly just Giant Bomb. It is industry wide.

But I think we've reached a point where you have to bring up these kinds of issues when talking about games. Come on guys, take the moral high ground and look out for your readers, instead of recommending broken games to them and then defending them.

#2 Posted by SomeDeliCook (2289 posts) -

This has all been said before more than once.

You can't go back and change the GOTY.

#3 Posted by Zacagawea (1589 posts) -

I think you should get a new hobby

#4 Posted by ssj4raditz (1125 posts) -

Oh well. It's over and done with.

#5 Posted by PooPooKaKaBumBum (7 posts) -

@SomeDeliCook said:

This has all been said before more than once.

You can't go back and change the GOTY.

The point is, it should have been discussed during the show instead of swept under the rug.

#6 Posted by Narx (173 posts) -

I think you might have forgotten a major point here.

Brad likes the game.

And guess what, that means he found his experience so enjoyable that he's willing to let more things pass.

He had fun playing it DESPITE all the bugs.

I don't think that Skyrim would be my game of the year but hey that's their opinion not mine.

#7 Posted by PooPooKaKaBumBum (7 posts) -

Yeah, and that's fine that he likes it. But taking MK off the list for bugs and putting Skyrim at the top depsite it is just plain hypocritical.

#8 Posted by SuperWristBands (2266 posts) -
@PooPooKaKaBumBum said:
We've reached a point with gaming "journalism" where we need to see something other than sites happily shilling for game companies in return for early access. And to be fair, it's hardly just Giant Bomb. It is industry wide.
I was fine with what you were saying until this part. Fuck you buddy.
#9 Posted by benspyda (2033 posts) -

Brad's best experience of the year was Skyrim not Saints Row so he was defending his choice as was Jeff. Their top ten is personal, Brad had no problem with the things Jeff did, not based on the community who also had a GOTY list where Skyrim didn't win.

#10 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -

Jesus Christ I thought all this GOTY bullshit was finally done. What do you aim to accomplish with this thread? Stop being a child and get over it.

#11 Posted by PooPooKaKaBumBum (7 posts) -

I don't care what won GOTY. What I care about is the reasons for it, and Brad's reasons were wrong.

#12 Posted by SgtGrumbles (1024 posts) -

I have something to say that might shock you, game of the year doesn't mean anything. It's something the guys have said, Jeff specifically. Needing validation for your likes and dislikes is stupid, these are just discussion for fun and entertainment, the label game of the year means nothing.

#13 Posted by Deusoma (3004 posts) -
@SomeDeliCook said:

This has all been said before more than once.

You can't go back and change the GOTY.

Oh, I don't know, if Bethesda publically announced that Skyrim was a metaphor for the superiority of the white man over all other races, I'm pretty sure people would be scrambling to change that. Not that that's in any way the case, of course, I just like countering definitive statements with ridiculous possibilities. :-)
#14 Posted by PooPooKaKaBumBum (7 posts) -

"One internal QA dept. versus ten million people testing your game"

The problem I have is Brad saying stuff like the above.

Does he really think it's acceptable for a company to release a broken game and have gamers be the QA dept?

That's ridiculous.

#15 Posted by TooWalrus (13159 posts) -

This thread should have been titled Dipshits useless analyzation of journalists personalities.

#16 Posted by the_OFFICIAL_jAPanese_teaBAG (4308 posts) -

The PS3 version is playable....  It just has a major flaw

#17 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -

Pretty sad when you're too big of a coward to post on your main account. Internet anonymity takes balls right?

#18 Posted by Claude (16255 posts) -

Give me a fucking break. This is tired and played out. It's over and done with. All the reasons and bullshit is there for the taking. Take it and don't mind the salt.

#19 Posted by Scrawnto (2440 posts) -

@PooPooKaKaBumBum: To be fair, I'm pretty sure they stated outright, in the deliberation podcast, that the PS3 version of Skyrim did not get game of the year. The award goes strictly to the PC and 360 versions. They probably should have indicated that in the video as well, but eh.

Also:

Is Brad seriously suggesting it's the consumer's job to bugtest Bethesda's games for them?

Of course not. He's saying that it's unreasonable to expect Bethesda to find every bug that 10 million users could find when they only have so many internal testers. He never said that it was the consumer's job to find those, just that it's not surprising that they have.

#20 Posted by ArbitraryWater (11613 posts) -

Well, you're about 2 weeks too late to be relevant.

Online
#21 Posted by Scrawnto (2440 posts) -

Also, the award was announced by Space Egypt. Space Egypt! How can you take that so seriously? It's a meaningless award on a goofy website.

#22 Posted by I_smell (3925 posts) -

I'm glad this came up again, cos I never said the first time: I'm not gettin all ice guys. I'm not gettin all anything, I don't know what Jeff was talkin about.

But also Brad had some pretty dumb points about Saints Row- The humour is TOTALLY part of the game.

#23 Posted by Battery24 (12 posts) -

If you were listening, they pointed out that the PS3 version of Skyrim was not included as GOTY, due to it being broken. They excluded MK because that was something that was broken across all platforms it was released on. They decided that the version of Skyrim on PC and 360 was worthy of GOTY, as is their prerogative.

#24 Posted by Cramsy (1166 posts) -

You really need something to do

#25 Posted by Claude (16255 posts) -
@Scrawnto said:

Also, the award was announced by Space Egypt. Space Egypt! How can you take that so seriously? It's a meaningless award on a goofy website.

Space Egypt cheated in his fight against Wizard Brad.
#26 Posted by Turambar (6732 posts) -

To also quote the GB staff during the GOTY discussions: "We are not talking about the PS3 version of the game, only the 360 and PC versions.  That version would not win GOTY.  It wouldn't be in the top 10."
 
Selective hearing at the finest I see.

#27 Posted by LiquidSwords (2738 posts) -

Late pass

#28 Posted by jakob187 (21663 posts) -

I could spew so much about how I agree with the OP on both points, but in the end, the staff has their opinions. I just hate that Skyrim ended up getting the pick. Nothing we can do about that, though.

#29 Posted by Claude (16255 posts) -
@jakob187 said:

I could spew so much about how I agree with the OP on both points, but in the end, the staff has their opinions. I just hate that Skyrim ended up getting the pick. Nothing we can do about that, though.

Don't hold back Josh. Skyrim was and is pretty fucking awesome in my book. My opinion of the my 360 version is 5 Motherfucking Stars.
#30 Posted by chrismafuchris (1088 posts) -

I agree, the game of the year podcast was excruciating to listen to, as it basically amounted to Brad and Jeff trading blows for about two hours. No knock to Brad or Skyrim, I think both are pretty great, but I really think Saints Row would have been a better fit.

#31 Edited by Little_Socrates (5675 posts) -

I completely agree with the OP, but this is far too late to have this conversation. I will say again that Skyrim is totally a worthy candidate for Game of the Year, but not for the reasons Brad posed.

But let's let it go. Brad is awesome 99% of the year. It's only at the Summer of Arcade and the Game of the Year that he even steps on my toes. And that's fine with me. I'd love to meet the guy, and I'll continue to enjoy his content. I've certainly made worse arguments for things that are less deserving of being argued for.

#32 Posted by RoujinX (419 posts) -

I think you're taking this a little too seriously.

...By that, I mean more seriously than anybody who was actually involved with the list.

It's just video games. Who gives a fuck.

#33 Edited by KaneRobot (1521 posts) -

@Battery24 said:

If you were listening, they pointed out that the PS3 version of Skyrim was not included as GOTY, due to it being broken. They excluded MK because that was something that was broken across all platforms it was released on. They decided that the version of Skyrim on PC and 360 was worthy of GOTY, as is their prerogative.

That's an incredibly weak "out." Like anyone is going to know "oh we don't mean the PS3 version, just the other two!" Yeah, sure. If that's the case they should have broken out the categories into 360/PC/PS3, because all it says is "Game of the Year - Skyrim" not "Game of the Year For Everything Except PS3 - Skyrim."

Frankly, fuck the people saying "let this go, it's old news." Don't let it go, it's fucking bullshit and they should be called on it. Repeatedly. OP is dead on.

#34 Posted by RoujinX (419 posts) -

@KaneRobot said:

@Battery24 said:

If you were listening, they pointed out that the PS3 version of Skyrim was not included as GOTY, due to it being broken. They excluded MK because that was something that was broken across all platforms it was released on. They decided that the version of Skyrim on PC and 360 was worthy of GOTY, as is their prerogative.

That's an incredibly weak "out." Like anyone is going to know "oh we don't mean the PS3 version, just the other two!" Yeah, sure. If that's the case they should have broken out the categories into 360/PC/PS3, because all it says is "Game of the Year - Skyrim" not "Game of the Year For Everything Except PS3 - Skyrim."

Frankly, fuck the people saying "let this go, it's old news." Don't let it go, it's fucking bullshit and they should be called on it. Repeatedly.

Why?

#35 Edited by Red (5994 posts) -

The difference between the bugs in Mortal Kombat and in Skyrim is that the bugs in MK really ruined everyone's experience with that game during its initial release. The Skyrim bugs only ruined it for certain people. Considering the GotY was not awarded to the PS3 version, I think what they did was totally fine.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that Call of Duty 4 had a pretty crappy DS release, and an awful Wii Version a year later. Does that invalidate how great the experience was for other consoles? Hell no.

#36 Posted by laserbolts (5317 posts) -
@KaneRobot

@Battery24 said:

If you were listening, they pointed out that the PS3 version of Skyrim was not included as GOTY, due to it being broken. They excluded MK because that was something that was broken across all platforms it was released on. They decided that the version of Skyrim on PC and 360 was worthy of GOTY, as is their prerogative.

That's an incredibly weak "out." Like anyone is going to know "oh we don't mean the PS3 version, just the other two!" Yeah, sure. If that's the case they should have broken out the categories into 360/PC/PS3, because all it says is "Game of the Year - Skyrim" not "Game of the Year For Everything Except PS3 - Skyrim."

Frankly, fuck the people saying "let this go, it's old news." Don't let it go, it's fucking bullshit and they should be called on it. Repeatedly. OP is dead on.

Stop being a fucking baby. It should be dropped GOTY shit is done and over with. I think saints row being considered a joke but it's done dude.
#37 Posted by RenegadeSaint (1539 posts) -

I don't really understand why GB does a site-wide GOTY. I think the individual lists are more than enough. In the end, it probably comes down to the business side of things, but really, I think we'd all be satisfied without a consensus list.

#38 Posted by Little_Socrates (5675 posts) -

@RoujinX said:

@KaneRobot said:

@Battery24 said:

If you were listening, they pointed out that the PS3 version of Skyrim was not included as GOTY, due to it being broken. They excluded MK because that was something that was broken across all platforms it was released on. They decided that the version of Skyrim on PC and 360 was worthy of GOTY, as is their prerogative.

That's an incredibly weak "out." Like anyone is going to know "oh we don't mean the PS3 version, just the other two!" Yeah, sure. If that's the case they should have broken out the categories into 360/PC/PS3, because all it says is "Game of the Year - Skyrim" not "Game of the Year For Everything Except PS3 - Skyrim."

Frankly, fuck the people saying "let this go, it's old news." Don't let it go, it's fucking bullshit and they should be called on it. Repeatedly.

Why?

Basically? Because it sucked, and it was the first inkling of ill will I'd felt towards any staff members of Giant Bomb in an absurdly long time. Those who are passionate about something should explore that passion through other intelligent people, and it sucks when the people you regard highly start spouting nonsense. I similarly feel bad for Kanye West fans who put themselves through his twitter account as he rarely posts anything meaningful before posting completely nonsensical bullshit because they want to be deeply in touch with someone they find brilliant. I find the Giant Bomb guys brilliant, or at least brilliantly entertaining; I'd wager that a lot of us do. It's a bummer, then, to hear them say anything that rings as disingenuous or misguided.

Why not let it go? Because people sometimes like to act like the people they regard highly are perfect, and because people's ability to work grows through criticism. In essence, we're reviewing Brad's job on the GOTY podcast, and we know he's an extremely talented guy, so it's super-frustrating that he couldn't bring more positive things to say about Skyrim than he did when he was able to say so much so nicely in his review.

#39 Posted by PrivateIronTFU (3874 posts) -

Grow up, and stop living in the past.

#40 Posted by mandude (2669 posts) -

The only GOTY topic worth discussing was that one compilation of everyone's lists that guy did...

#41 Edited by bybeach (4784 posts) -

@RenegadeSaint said:

I don't really understand why GB does a site-wide GOTY. I think the individual lists are more than enough. In the end, it probably comes down to the business side of things, but really, I think we'd all be satisfied without a consensus list.

I don't know if you can speak for others on this or any other point. But personally your suggestion to me would cap this bs. I just don't know what value one can be still getting out of deliberations like this. You get a sense that a whole lot in life has valid precedence over this excrement gone stale.

#42 Posted by jorbear (2517 posts) -

I'm so angry I'm going to go slit my wrists in the name of Satan.

#43 Posted by MariachiMacabre (7076 posts) -

Jesus Christ, are we gonna keep seeing this thread until the 2012 GOTY Podcast? Calm down, it's just their opinion.

#44 Posted by Claude (16255 posts) -

You guys bore me. I need more drama, otherwise, it's nothing more than a bitch session.

#45 Posted by Hero_Swe (1130 posts) -

@Claude said:

@jakob187 said:

I could spew so much about how I agree with the OP on both points, but in the end, the staff has their opinions. I just hate that Skyrim ended up getting the pick. Nothing we can do about that, though.

Don't hold back Josh. Skyrim was and is pretty fucking awesome in my book. My opinion of the my 360 version is 5 Motherfucking Stars.

What about the Wii version?

#46 Posted by Claude (16255 posts) -
@Hero_Swe said:

@Claude said:

@jakob187 said:

I could spew so much about how I agree with the OP on both points, but in the end, the staff has their opinions. I just hate that Skyrim ended up getting the pick. Nothing we can do about that, though.

Don't hold back Josh. Skyrim was and is pretty fucking awesome in my book. My opinion of the my 360 version is 5 Motherfucking Stars.

What about the Wii version?

Don't be silly. Let's see if there is a GOTY version for the Wii U.
#47 Posted by Hero_Swe (1130 posts) -

@Claude said:

@Hero_Swe said:

@Claude said:

@jakob187 said:

I could spew so much about how I agree with the OP on both points, but in the end, the staff has their opinions. I just hate that Skyrim ended up getting the pick. Nothing we can do about that, though.

Don't hold back Josh. Skyrim was and is pretty fucking awesome in my book. My opinion of the my 360 version is 5 Motherfucking Stars.

What about the Wii version?

Don't be silly. Let's see if there is a GOTY version for the Wii U.

Don't be silly, unless Wii U gets a homebrew channel, or hacked :P

#48 Posted by gouldgonewild (83 posts) -

Hey man, a fighting game shipping with broken online multiplayer for six months is a little different than a buggy game and a version that isn't as good as the other versions. It's a matter of opinion, it has nothing to do with bad journalism. Take it somewhere else.

#49 Posted by Claude (16255 posts) -
@Hero_Swe: Please. You don't know, neither do I. Worlds can collide.
#50 Edited by mlarrabee (2920 posts) -

@PooPooKaKaBumBum said:

Is Brad seriously suggesting it's the consumer's job to bugtest Bethesda's games for them?

He was only referring to the natural increase in encountered bugs. A QA team of 75 can discover and lead to the correction of many, many glitches, but once you have this many people playing:

  • 5,012,468 concurrent Steam users on January 2, 2012
  • 10M shipped to retail as of December 16, 2011; actual sales numbers unaggregated

... your instances of encountered errors rises dramatically.

"If we were waiting to play that game, it's because we valued the experience so much that we were waiting for it to be optimal".

Yeah, that was a pretty silly thing to say. I didn't even start the game until 1.3 showed up, not for the "optimal experience," but so it wouldn't be busted.

He discounts every single example Jeff states from his own personal experience from the game as untrue. (Tired of fighting ice guys)

They can only judge GOTY by their own experiences. They've made that disclaimer every year. "These are our opinions, guys." Vinny would have fought for Dark Souls if he thought he had the possibility of winning that argument, because he had a great experience with it. Good enough for it to be his number two(?) game. But nobody else liked it, so there was no way it was hitting the GB Top Ten. Ryan, Vinny, and Brad had enough fun with Skyrim for it to be number one or two for all of them, and those combined carried enough weight to put it at number one.

I don't think Skyrim is the best game of the year. It's around four on my list. But from everything I see, the guys came by their decision honestly.

Except for Bastion. That game's good, but it ain't number three good.