While I agree with Vinny, that playing Nintendo games in 720p is a whole lot more enticing than what we've had with the Wii, I do no longer agree that 720p is a true HD resolution. High definition begins with 1080p. Once you go PC, and render your games natively at 1080p or higher, you won't go back to 720p and be completely satisfied.
For me, 720p is more like MD - medium definition - soon to be the new SD.
What? I always figured that 720p was considered HD already regardless of what the Wii U can do or whatever.
Edit: Oh now I see what you're saying. By true I think what you mean to say is full HD which is what 1080p is called. I do agree with you though that after running so many games at 1080p even 720p is hard to go back to even when 720p on PC looks better than 720p on consoles.
What? I always figured that 720p was considered HD already regardless of what the Wii U can do or whatever.
But do you still perceive 720p rendering as HD-gaming? I definitely do not. I perceive it as clearly inferior to native 1080p rendering, which is where a true HD-gaming-experience is at for me. Since quite a few years actually.
@Seppli: No, it's still HD. It's just unfair to group it with 1080p because of the big gap between those resolutions. I prefer calling it full HD and yeah I would like 1080p to become a standard for gaming.
Rendering resolution is what counts. Wii U (and PS3/360) games in general are rendered in 720p or less - then it's upscaled to 1080p output. Exceptions are few and far between.
@Seppli: I know that the current consoles only upscale 720p games to 1080p but I could have sworn I heard that the Wii U was going to run native 1080p games. I guess I misheard, oh well just gotta wait for the real next gen to have 1080p games become a standard.
HD is, technically speaking, a meaningless term. The terms "true" or "full" HD fully serve to confuse the whole conversation. As if someone has said "yes, okay , no we're done. We now have ALL the pixels." When is comes down to it 1080p is almost there as far as being the standard. So if 720 is inferior to the standard how can it still be described as HIGH DEFINITION. Basically what I'm saying is HD is just a brand or a buzz word.
@TheNose14: You're not wrong about it just being a buzz word but you gotta call it something because mom and pop will be even more clueless if you try to explain to them what 1920 x 1080 even means. Personally, I can't wait for the near future where UHD becomes prevalent. Yeah those 4k televisions have been standardized behind the moniker of "Ultra High Definition".
Yes it fills the conditions for being HD, its just that HD is a stupid standard that covers a whole bunch of different resolutions and refresh rates.
It's like asking if shit is truly Hi-Fi or some other such bullshit.
I'm asking about your personal standard, not if 720p is HD according to some marketing moniker or some set standard of yesteryear. Do you still perceive games rendered in 720p to be high definition? Does 720p still satisfy your HD-resolution needs?
I'm of the belief that 1080p at 60fps is what we should expect from our products, film or video game. Resolution should be high enough to never break the illusion that the thing you see on the screen is actually composed of real objects rather than pixels, if you're dealing with a large screen or a close up one than 1080p is essential and even then I hope we can someday get 4k. 60fps is the limit of human perception of motion which means solid 60fps further increases immersion and realism. Until entertainment products reach this level I will be searching for the company who can finally provide it.
I haven't listened to the podcast yet (been watching desert bus so I haven't seen the wiiu stream yet either) but I would consider 720p to be vastly inferior to 1080p. To call them both HD is misleading by implying they are of comparable quality. So no, I don't consider 720 to be HD.
I can understand the many rationalities why people will vote yes for this, but for me personally 1080p is my minimum now ever since I can have a large library of PC games and can maintain an affordable yet powerful PC. I can stand lower resolutions from consoles due to understanding hardware limitations, but the next consoles from Sony and Microsoft better be able to render at 1080p with relative ease. Also hoping for 60fps to be a goal target for standard frames per second, but I can deal with at least 1080p.
720p is the new standard def in my mind. The last game I played at 480p was Mario Galaxy and the vast majority of my game playing is on a beast of a PC, so whenever I have to play a game on either the 360 or the PS3 they honestly do look terrible now.
I play both my PC games and my console games on the same TV, and when you switch between them on the exact same display you really see the difference. Last 360 game I played was Gears 3 and it honestly kinda looked like a blurry, aliased mess to me. The PC has ruined me.
@Seppli: This reminds me. I am so looking forward to the day when Giant Bomb supports "full" HD. 1080p would be great. I'd have an even better impression of what the games look like. With PC gaming, I have definitely become spoiled with 1080p, and I am confident the next gen consoles will support it. Though, at the moment, I'd just love it if Giant Bomb could start recording games in 1080p. Wouldn't necessarily have to be the case for live streams, but for Quick Looks and premium content, I think it'd be amazing.
seeing that the majority of 360 and PS3 games are still only 720p/1080i beyond the 360 upscaling, a game that's 720p isn't going to bother me on the Wii U. That whole 1080p Future Sony promised still doesn't exist on consoles.
Yes, 720p is fine for me. I have no problem at all switching between PC games and console games. Honestly, graphics are pretty much at the bottom of what I care about in games
720p is an HD resolution, so yeah. I voted no to your question as I interpreted it to be about personal opinion on the resolution, though. I don't have a problem with the resolution per se, it's all an issue of pixel density. Even 1080p looks kinda iffy on a large enough TV screen, but 720p is completely alright on my 27" computer monitor, for instance.
I dunno, I guess more pixels are more than less pixels, and that's cool.
Personally I dont notice that much of a difference between 720 and 1080. People sound like their talking more about the texture quality than the picture itself. If I really need some still frames for a side by side, and still cant find enough to difference to notice let alone care, I sure as fuck dont care when its all moving.
It does. Right now the games running in 720p are multiplatform titles that already are running in 720p on 360/PS3.
Black Ops 2 is running at native 1080p on the Wii U.
Useless thread.
Just like Call of Duty games are the only games that are running at 60 FPS on 360/PS3. And I doubt that it's rendered at 1080p, since it renders on a sub-720p resolution on PS3/360. Link some proof. I say your info is wrong and unsubstantiated hearsay.
@Brad said:
720p is HD by definition, so this question is nonsense.
Though we are expressly not talking definition, but rather personal perception. Technically the PS3 and 360 are still considered 'Next Generation' and could not be farther from it.
@John1912 said:
Personally I dont notice that much of a difference between 720 and 1080. People sound like their talking more about the texture quality than the picture itself. If I really need some still frames for a side by side, and still cant find enough to difference to notice let alone care, I sure as fuck dont care when its all moving.
For me, 720p rendered games look like a blocky noisy mess of a picture in general, especially in motion. Where-as most games rendered in 1080p and played on a 1080p screen don't even need AA for my sensibilities. There just no comparison.
So your personal perception is defined by official definition? What a world you live in...
You specifically used the term HD, there is no opinion on what HD is or isn't. It's like asking for opinions on whether the Wii U is a Nintendo product or not - there's not really any leeway for discussion there.
I suppose what you're trying to ask is, 'is 720p acceptable to you as a resolution?', in which case, definitely no.
So your personal perception is defined by official definition? What a simple world you live in...
Would you say the same thing to someone who said they considered red to be a color by definition?
There are lots of nuances to the red colortone, so I might point out a lack in descriptive adequacy, if you call something red, that's clearly magenta. Pixeldensity however is not about nuance, it's about substantive differences in quality.
Your example is apples to oranges.
HD is a predefined term to you. To me, HD stands for a certain quality threshold - HD is, what feels HD. Just shows how different people view the world differently. It's likely a 720p Zelda-game will feel HD, because of how Zelda looks - in general however, I do no longer perceive games rendered in 720p as HD.
It does. Right now the games running in 720p are multiplatform titles that already are running in 720p on 360/PS3.
Black Ops 2 is running at native 1080p on the Wii U.
Useless thread.
Unfortunately, that isn't quite the case. According to Activision, Black Ops 2 does not run at native 1080p on the Wii U. Black Ops 2 runs sub-720p made 720p by the 360/PS3, and by the same token, it's still running sub-720p for the Wii U but the console is upconverting the resolution to 1080p for HD viewing. Nintendo itself is pushing native 720p games(like New Super Mario Bros U) upconverted to 1080p on the console in the interest of smoother framerates over greater detail.
So your personal perception is defined by official definition? What a simple world you live in...
Would you say the same thing to someone who said they considered red to be a color by definition?
There are lots of nuances to the red colortone, so I might point out a lack in descriptive adequacy, if you call something red, that's clearly magenta. Pixeldensity however is not about nuance, it's about substantive differences in quality.
Your example is apples to oranges.
I wasn't really giving an example to counter you. I was just genuinely curious about how free-thinking you're going with this. But alrighty then, curiosity satisfied.
@Seppli: I think @BeachThunder said it well. The real question here isn't whether 720p is a true HD resolution; it's whether you personally feel that 720p is now an acceptable resolution for the latest games. I think that's a far clearer question.
@Seppli: I think @BeachThunder said it well. The real question here isn't whether 720p is a true HD resolution; it's whether you personally feel that 720p is now an acceptable resolution for the latest games. I think that's a far clearer question.
Original Question:'Do you consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point?'
The question is phrased clearly enough. It's about personal opinion/perception, not about the predetermined term of HD. I use the term loosely, that's true - but that doesn't really matter in the context of the question.
That faintest hint of polemic you're perceiving is deliberate of course. I consider it beneficial, because it's leading to a more lively discussion, and any discussion is much more entertaining this way, than it would be working with a more clear-cut question.
Yes, it's not even a debate. HD is a standard, 720p is part of that standard, just as 1080p is. Obviously one is better than the other but that doesn't change the facts.
720P is more than acceptable for console games right now, and yes I do consider it a "HD" resolution, as dumb as that term is. (considering resolutions above 1280x720 were in PC monitors over a decade ago)
720P content looks great on my TV. 1080P content looks better. I always opt for 1080P when I can, which is often because I game on PC most the time. Still, I'd rather use 720P and be able to turn other graphical settings up than play with 1080P on like medium settings. (I never have to alter this because resolution impacts performance very little on most games I find, just saying what I theoretically would prefer)
@Seppli: The term "HD" as it applies to video standards has an actual, specific meaning. I think you should have phrased your original question this way: "Do you consider 720p to be an acceptable resolution for your gaming needs/desires?"
@Seppli: I think @BeachThunder said it well. The real question here isn't whether 720p is a true HD resolution; it's whether you personally feel that 720p is now an acceptable resolution for the latest games. I think that's a far clearer question.
Original Question:'Do you consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point?'
The question is phrased clearly enough. It's about personal opinion/perception, not about the predetermined term of HD. I use the term loosely, that's true - but that doesn't really matter in the context of the question.
That faintest hint of polemic you're perceiving is deliberate of course. I consider it beneficial for lively discussion and entertainment.
Yes, I consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point.
If you want to ask that, then that's your answer. Your real question seems to be "Do you personally feel that 720p is still an acceptable resolution for the latest games?" Your original question wasn't clear, and that's why people have given you responses of "Of course it is. 720p is HD." It's alright to accept that you might have phrased a question in a poor manner, because no matter whether you felt it was clear enough or not, I think it is now clear that the question wasn't clear enough. Heck, you were able to get Brad to shut you down, and he's basically a FPS-playing teddy bear.
Do I like 720p after having seen native 1080p? Not really. If it were up to me, new games would be native 1080p at 60fps. But that's in response to whether I feel 720p is still an acceptable resolution for today's newest games, not whether 720p is true HD. :)
@Seppli: I think @BeachThunder said it well. The real question here isn't whether 720p is a true HD resolution; it's whether you personally feel that 720p is now an acceptable resolution for the latest games. I think that's a far clearer question.
Original Question:'Do you consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point?'
The question is phrased clearly enough. It's about personal opinion/perception, not about the predetermined term of HD. I use the term loosely, that's true - but that doesn't really matter in the context of the question.
That faintest hint of polemic you're perceiving is deliberate of course. I consider it beneficial for lively discussion and entertainment.
Yes, I consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point.
If you want to ask that, then that's your answer. Your real question seems to be "Do you personally feel that 720p is still an acceptable resolution for the latest games?" Your original question wasn't clear, and that's why people have given you responses of "Of course it is. 720p is HD." It's alright to accept that you might have phrased a question in a poor manner, because no matter whether you felt it was clear enough or not, I think it is now clear that the question wasn't clear enough. Heck, you were able to get Brad to shut you down, and he's basically a FPS-playing teddy bear.
Do I like 720p after having seen native 1080p? Not really. If it were up to me, new games would be native 1080p at 60fps. But that's in response to whether I feel 720p is still an acceptable resolution for today's newest games, not whether 720p is true HD. :)
But isn't stuff like Brad's comment exactly the kind of respond you'd want, if you'd phrase your question like I did. Because in the end, there's two kind of people. Those who adhere to standards, and those who set their own.
Facts are so boring. Humanity is where it's at. I think my question surfaced the humanity of the Wii U resultion situation quite well.
@Seppli: I think @BeachThunder said it well. The real question here isn't whether 720p is a true HD resolution; it's whether you personally feel that 720p is now an acceptable resolution for the latest games. I think that's a far clearer question.
Original Question:'Do you consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point?'
The question is phrased clearly enough. It's about personal opinion/perception, not about the predetermined term of HD. I use the term loosely, that's true - but that doesn't really matter in the context of the question.
That faintest hint of polemic you're perceiving is deliberate of course. I consider it beneficial for lively discussion and entertainment.
Yes, I consider 720p to be a true HD resolution at this point.
If you want to ask that, then that's your answer. Your real question seems to be "Do you personally feel that 720p is still an acceptable resolution for the latest games?" Your original question wasn't clear, and that's why people have given you responses of "Of course it is. 720p is HD." It's alright to accept that you might have phrased a question in a poor manner, because no matter whether you felt it was clear enough or not, I think it is now clear that the question wasn't clear enough. Heck, you were able to get Brad to shut you down, and he's basically a FPS-playing teddy bear.
Do I like 720p after having seen native 1080p? Not really. If it were up to me, new games would be native 1080p at 60fps. But that's in response to whether I feel 720p is still an acceptable resolution for today's newest games, not whether 720p is true HD. :)
But isn't stuff like Brad's comment exactly the kind of respond you'd want, if you'd phrase your question like I did. Because in the end, there's two kind of people. Those who adhere to standards, and those who set their own.
Facts are so boring. Humanity is where it's at.
heh. Sounds like you're more interested in a discussion regarding linguistic standards for maintaining consistent communication of facts than whether the established resolution standard of 720p is acceptable for someone's modern enjoyment of a console game.
It's alright. You phrased a question in a weird way that elicited responses which don't really answer your intended question. It happens. Perhaps just edit your original post to be a bit clearer regarding the fact that you're not actually questioning whether 720p is "HD"; you're just wondering whether others also have a difficult time enjoying native 720p games after experiencing native 1080p games. Or you can accept that this thread is a bit of a wash and move on.
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