Et Tu, Davis?

Man, I did not see that coming. I figured that with Ryan having played (and loved the shit out of) Saints Row: The Third he would've been gung-ho about it from the opening bell. His late-game heel turn was more shocking than Skyrim not having a single quest line as good as Dark Brotherhood.

So now that the Deliberations are over, and we have a clear winner in Skyrim, what did you guys think of the Day Five bombcast? I'm still taking it all in, personally. From Vinny eventually throwing his hands up and walking away to Ryan's turn, to Jeff fighting tooth and nail to the bitter end. Great debate this year, I think.

Who cares man, we all have our favorite games that came out this year, and no one will be able to convince us otherwise. I believe it's called opinions. Also I'd argue that apart from the brotherhood, the thieves guild questline as well as the companion questline were pretty good. The Winterhold college questline was abysmal though.

@TheDudeOfGaming: Yeah, absolute nothing was answered about what the hell happened towards the end of that story...

It feels like that entire faction was a wasted opportunity.

@cbk486: It's not so much that nothing was answered, but rather that the whole story was a **** up. I got to the college, hoping for a great questline. Instead, it turned out that it was all about finding the use of a great magic ball, and trying to stop anyone from using it. The only good thing about the whole questline was the Psijic order, and that's not much.

@TheDudeOfGaming: It just seemed like Bethesda introduced this whole school that strongly reminded me of Hogwarts. The introduction that they had was pretty unique, and I was hoping that there would be a lot more interaction with the various students that you enrolled with. Instead they quickly just sent our character off to some far corner of the world, having some cryptic organization stringing us along and never explaining the significance of the objects that we were looking for or even hinting at what their grander purpose was. The "villain" that they introduced seemed entirely one dimensional, and the various fights weren't even that challenging.

I realize this is just a rant, but I am kind of disappointed that no quest line in the game never matched Oblivion's Dark Brotherhood, and it seemed like the Mage's Guild quest line was especially lazy.

@KingWilly: It was great, Jeff was getting actually kinda getting pissed off. 
I really hate brad and wish those rumors about him leaving were true.

I already heard Mr. Shoemaker's mule impression last year, I don't need to hear it again.

Sounds fucking epic though with Ryan switching at the end. Like a good western where the bad guy is cornered until one of the good guys defects and shoots the star in the back and the two bad guys skullfuck the star's lifeless corpse until its sockets are polished chasms of soul crushing blackness. They sure don't make movies like that anymore.

@TheDudeOfGaming: I get what you're saying, but nothing in Skyrim topped the Whodunit? quest from Oblivion. The whole quest line for the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion was full of novel twists on Oblivion's gameplay to squeeze in all of these great scenarios... and in Skyrim? It's a bunch of "go here, shank that guy." I still really enjoy Skyrim, and DB especially, but at the end of the day it lacked a lot of the charm and imagination that made Oblivion's DB quest line special.

Saints Row Is the better experiance by far for me. Patrick's argument about radiant AI moving that series forward is what made a great case I think. Brad just sounded like a fan boy, a majority of what he had to say had to do with legacy and didn't make that great of a case in my opinion. Ryan didn't even play skyrim. What a jerk.

Either way I loved and did everything you could in Saints Row, a series I never gave a second glance up to then. I'll be playing more Skyrim into next year for sure. So I think it's a great top 10, just didn't care for the case made for Skyrim.

@TheDudeOfGaming:

The best part of the Dark Brotherhood in Skyrim is the opening (which was pretty disturbing), not the ending.

That being said, nothing matches up to the Purification quest in Oblivion. Full stop.

@Bwast said:

I already heard Mr. Shoemaker's mule impression last year, I don't need to hear it again.

Sounds fucking epic though with Ryan switching at the end. Like a good western where the bad guy is cornered until one of the good guys defects and shoots the star in the back and the two bad guys skullfuck the star's lifeless corpse until its sockets are polished chasms of soul crushing blackness. They sure don't make movies like that anymore.

trust me, it's not that good. He literally just says Skyrim should win because saints row doesn't have enough content (even though he hasn't actually played skyrim and not knowing what it was)

@Enns said:

Saints Row Is the better experiance by far for me. Patrick's argument about radiant AI moving that series forward is what made a great case I think. Brad just sounded like a fan boy, a majority of what he had to say had to do with legacy and didn't make that great of a case in my opinion. Ryan didn't even play skyrim. What a jerk.

I agree with you about Patrick's argument. I was like, "alright, that's a really good point." It was far more convincing than Brad's entire two hours of, "BUT I CAN'T GET THIS ANYWHERE ELSE. NOTHING IS BORING AND EVERYTHING IS INCREDIBLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEE."

I'm pretty neutral when it comes to Giant Bomb representation, but I will bare-knuckle throwdown some motherfuckers during GOTY Deliberations week!

This year's GOTY content was really a lot of fun to read/listen to/watch i thought and a step above what they've done so far. Their goal really is to celebrate the great games of the year and the best things about them. So while taking sides was part of the fun, (I wanted to believe in The Row!!!) I enjoyed that bombcast either way. Keep up the great work and strap it on for 2012!

@TheDudeOfGaming: I've forgotten to give Skyrim's DB questline for the part when you have to hide in the Night Mother's coffin . That scene is one of the more depraved things I've done in a game.

The harshness about Brad is uncalled for. Dude was just being enthusiastic in his debating during the one podcast of the year in which that's totally appropriate. The GOTY deliberation podcasts are supposed to be brutal and kind of excruciatingly obnoxious anyway.

And I'll say, I've had mixed feelings about Patrick up until this point, but after these 'casts and his personal top 10 list, dude's a'ight in my book.

@PillClinton said:

The harshness about Brad is uncalled for.

Not really. Brad turns into a filibustering cunt every year. He's insufferable. Like the way he went on and on about that fucking police chief from LA Noire whose name he couldn't even remember. The guys just gave it to him to shut him up.

@Enns said:

Saints Row Is the better experiance by far for me. Patrick's argument about radiant AI moving that series forward is what made a great case I think. Brad just sounded like a fan boy, a majority of what he had to say had to do with legacy and didn't make that great of a case in my opinion. Ryan didn't even play skyrim. What a jerk.

Either way I loved and did everything you could in Saints Row, a series I never gave a second glance up to then. I'll be playing more Skyrim into next year for sure. So I think it's a great top 10, just didn't care for the case made for Skyrim.

Yeah, I felt that a lot of games were just "okayed" through the deliberations. I thought the debate was extremely tense and fun to listen to though. Brad never really puts up good arguments in these things, and the whole thing with Ryan was kind of weird. Still, I had fun.

@PillClinton said:

The harshness about Brad is uncalled for.

Not really. Brad turns into a filibustering cunt every year. He's insufferable. Like the way he went on and on about that fucking police chief from LA Noire whose name he couldn't even remember. The guys just gave it to him to shut him up.

kinda glad skyrim won. Even though ive played Saints Row alot and loved every sec of it.

I don't get why Skyrim won after Ryan switched.

If a game won GOTY because of majority rule, then why didn't Saints Row win in the first place because Vinny, Jeff, and Ryan all liked it from the beginning?

In the end it was a matter of opinion and taste. The two games might as well be tied.

@Beb said:

In the end it was a matter of opinion and taste. The two games might as well be tied.

I agree. It helps me that for the present I care little for either. I got Skyrim on sale, I know in my heart I will get SR 3 on another steam sale, as well as finally the Witcher 2. they are great games I am completely sure, just hard for me to care about them..where my attitude may change drastically for any one of them, perhaps. Fallout 3 syndrome.

The only good thing that came out of these deliberations was the fact that now they can not use that excuse of not giving a game the GOTY title because it's busted on one system.

the dark brotherhood in oblivion was probably the most overrated questline in any game ever. why does everyone think its so great?

the dark brotherhood in oblivion was probably the most overrated questline in any game ever. why does everyone think its so great?

A few thoughts, if it's worth anything (incidentally, I have nothing against either game—these are just things that occured to me during the episode):

I thought many of the arguments made in the Skyrim vs. Saints Row debate were more or less vacuous. As has been pointed out, Brad's points seemed fanboyish; moreover, they all hinged on the fact that Skyrim is yet another iteration in a long franchise. Yes, Skyrim does things that other games haven't done. Many games do things that other games haven't done. Consider the following: nobody will be playing Skyrim in four years, just as no one plays Oblivion now. Soon Elder Scrolls 6 will be out, and Skyrim will be defunct.

Conversely, Saints Row has certain qualities that will stand up for some time—its postmodern critique of video games; its criticism of many common video game tropes (both points went unmentioned by both Vinny and Jeff). I don't know if Volition was actually aiming to do some high-level, high-minded commentary, but that was the end result with its game. Saints Row is intelligent in a way that Skyrim, and most other games this year, simply aren't.

In five years, there is a very good chance I will want to revisit Saints Row: The Third. There is no chance I will revisit Skyrim.

Ryan's argument that he "ran out of things to do" in Saints Row surprised me. How long did Uncharted 2, Red Dead Redemption, and Mass Effect 2 last? Eight, fifteen, twenty hours (respectively)? Saints Row lasted longer than that and was relentless all the way through; Skyrim has too many troughs in its sixty hours of content. Are we really considering games based on their length now?

I would have no qualms if I could walk away from this year's deliberations saying, "well, they debated it, and they came out with a consensus based on their opinions." But there was no substantive debate to be had as in past years, and the reasons put forth for Skyrim were unsatisfying compared to all the great things Saints Row managed.

Also, somebody cut Brad's mic. That guy went on for thirty minutes talking about the semantics of the term "sequel fatigue." And also, I feel sorry for Jeff. Poor Jeff! He just wanted to be happy. :(

@Clonedzero said:

the dark brotherhood in oblivion was probably the most overrated questline in any game ever. why does everyone think its so great?

It was one of the few geniunely creative bits of gameplay in oblivion. It wasn't just kill guy A or steal from guy B it was "Sneak into that guys house, find his hidden room then at a specific time in the day when hes in a specific spot drop that thing on his head from the secret room".  Also, opinions.

My favorite part of the entire podcast was Ryan telling Jeff "I can't follow you down this path, man" and all hell breaking loose

Amazing

I feel as though Ryan chose Skyrim just because he wanted to stop podcasting, not because he thought it was the better game.

Also, I know they said that they were awarding only the 360 and PC versions of Skyrim -- I get that you can ignore the PS3 version being almost unplayable, but can you really ignore it actually bricking some people's systems because of its propensity to crash?

When I go to start a new game it loads yet the characters do not speak and the wagons don't move, therefore the game cannot start

* WARNING! REPEATEDLY GETTING THIS ERROR WILL EVENTUALLY RESULT IN THE CORRUPTION OF PS3 STARTUP FILES OR OTHER IMPORTANT SOFTWARE, KILLING YOUR SYSTEM!

Video games!

My favorite part of the entire podcast was Ryan telling Jeff "I can't follow you down this path, man" and all hell breaking loose

Amazing

Fuck this thread. Brad is awesome.

Hypocritical testimonies were made, frustration was peaked. I'm pretty much over it now.

It was fun to listen and some good toughs were throw into the table, That is what matters...

Now if you are actually either "Piss" or "Worry" about the "outcome" of Giantbomb's TOP 10 of the year!... Chances are your life sucks.

I would have loved if Jeff had straight up called Brad a lair for claiming the dungeon mobs in Skyrim aren't repetitive as fuck. He got close, but stopped just short. It would be really interesting to see things get full on confrontational.

@Slaker117 said:

I would have loved if Jeff had straight up called Brad a lair for claiming the dungeon mobs in Skyrim aren't repetitive as fuck. He got close, but stopped just short. It would be really interesting to see things get full on confrontational.

I feel like if that happened, someone would get stabbed. Jeff does have a knife.

L.A. Noire instead of Dark Souls?  Fuck you guys I'm going home.
 
Seriously though, I always love these.  They're the most authentic and rawest representation of how review sites actually decide on their lists, and it's never pretty or satisfying to everyone involved, just like the end results are to the readers.  It's great.

@KingWilly said:

@Slaker117 said:

I would have loved if Jeff had straight up called Brad a lair for claiming the dungeon mobs in Skyrim aren't repetitive as fuck. He got close, but stopped just short. It would be really interesting to see things get full on confrontational.

I feel like if that happened, someone would get stabbed. Jeff does have a knife.

But that's what I'm paying to see!

I would have loved if Jeff had straight up called Brad a lair for claiming the dungeon mobs in Skyrim aren't repetitive as fuck. He got close, but stopped just short. It would be really interesting to see things get full on confrontational.

I can't believe after all of this, I loved Patrick the most. His arguments were great and didn't sound fanboyish. His defense on Skyrim was well done. I honestly can't believe how much of a jerk Brad can be at times. His dismissal of Rayman is absurd. Ryan saw that either side was valid and chose what he chose. It would have been awesome to see Jeff happy after all of this, I really wanted SR3 to win since every other site will pick Skyrim. I love Skyrim and love the exploration and the richness of the content. This is a step above Fallout 3 and Oblivion. It was a great year for games, so let's be happy about that. I just loved Pat defending Catherine and Rayman. He is a great at this so far.

I think when Ryan talks about running out of things to do In Saints Row he is saying, that after beating the story and already seeing all the high points, you can only play for so much more. In something like Skyrim you can play for days on end and still be uncovering new crap and getting lost in the world. The moment I beat Saints I really had no desire to just run around the city and blow shit up, I did that all throughout the game, and frankly the shooting and gameplay mechanics felt pretty mediocre to me. After unlocking the VTOL and Apocofists and what not, actually using them got boring pretty quickly, I don't know maybe that's just me.

And for all the Brad hate, you don't even know the guy, relax.

1. Relax everyone. This is for fun!

2. Ryans 'plot twist' was weird.

For as much as I love The Elder Scrolls, I have to say that I agree with those saying Skyrim didn't deserve to win over Saint's Row.

SR had some of the best characters I've ever seen in a game, and not for stupid novelty reasons like Jiub from Morrowind, the characters actually came across to me as well thought out and solid, somethings incredibly rare for any non-Bioware RPG, let alone an action game. The gameplay was also very solid and, shockingly, was a damn good PC port.

Skyrim on the other hand has great missions and a more compelling open world, but the characters are bland, the fighting is mechanical, and the interface is complete dog shit. And I would say that Skyrim, for all its talk about going back to Morrowind's style, actually looses that style more than Oblivion.

From their personal Top 10 lists:

Ryan: #1 Saints Row The Third.

Jeff: #1 Saints Row The Third, #2 Skyrim.

Brad: #1 Skyrim, #10 Saints Row The Third.

Vinny: #1 Saints Row The Third.

Patrick: #1 Skyrim, #4 Saints Row The Third.

Alex: #3 Saints Row The Third, #4 Skyrim.

Drew: #3 Skyrim.

But eh, who cares.

Yeah let's wish these dudes stabbed each other!

What is wrong with you people? These 4 dudes have known each other since forever and have even started a video game website together because they enjoy each others company, but because a certain game came second or first you people wish that they induced so weird sense of animosity in the office? The office where they come to everyday to work and see each other....

sounds logical....

Yeah let's wish these dudes stabbed each other!

What is wrong with you people? These 4 dudes have known each other since forever and have even started a video game website together because they enjoy each others company, but because a certain game came second or first you people wish that they induced so weird sense of animosity in the office? The office where they come to everyday to work and see each other....

sounds logical....