Its a free fricken market to begin with! Even if its immoral, its way better than punching someone after a football game or conducting a dog fighting ring.
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Now I may be wrong, so try to convince me otherwise so I shun the guy completely if you want me to.
So what if Oliver wanted to sell that "key"?
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@ryanwho: And Woah, I'm not this Oliver guy if that's what your insinuating. I have little enough money to be traveling to the West Coast as it is.
What? I think this is a non-issue. Bob gave him the key, it's Blizzard's problem, not Giant Bomb's, and I certainly don't think less... well a little bit. Because I would have loved to have a key to the beta, but in the end SOMEONE is gonna get to play it, so that's fine.
If you're going to take the underhanded route of selling a prize you've won, don't be so stupid about announcing it to the world. When you tell people around the Blizzard booth that you're going to sell the StarCraft II beta key that you won, particularly when you don't even have the key yet, you deserve what you get.
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Seriously, Cobra Commander could have thought this out better.
No, its worse than that though. Its like if before he went on the show, backstage, he was attempting to sell the car he did not own yet to the Tonight Show staff. That's basically what this fool did." But he didn't even have it yet. This would be like if the guy who won Cars for Clunkers on Conan put the car he won on ebay before he even showed up to claim it. "
I knew that boy wasn't right in the head.
" @JJWeatherman: I think were getting offended by the wrong things. There are alot worse things to get offended about. "No. Giant Bomb is the most important thing to ever exist and it must not be dissed.
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lol, but really though it's a dick move to be given a beta key as a special prize and just turn around and try to make a profit off of it. Anyone that genuinely loves video games would absolutely love to get into the Starcraft 2 beta.
" Personally, it's fucking disgusting that they called him out like that. It comes close to breaking the DPA. He won it, it's his to do what he wishes with. Â I think it's foolish that he tried it, but it's his life. What if his PC can't handle SC2? What if he doesn't like SC2? "Then he can be smart enough to go about selling it in a more discreet/smarter way.
And he didn't, that's a given. Am I calling him the Artful Dodger? No, not at all. I think he conducted himself in an idiotic way, and it's his own fault. However, there's absolutely no need to disclose his name like that, it's horrific." @Fallen189 said:
" Personally, it's fucking disgusting that they called him out like that. It comes close to breaking the DPA. He won it, it's his to do what he wishes with. Â I think it's foolish that he tried it, but it's his life. What if his PC can't handle SC2? What if he doesn't like SC2? "Then he can be smart enough to go about selling it in a more discreet/smarter way. "
If it is a free market, that means the seller (Blizzard) has a right to stipulate non-transferability as a condition for accepting possession of access to the beta key." Its a free fricken market to begin with! Even if its immoral, its way better than punching someone after a football game or conducting a dog fighting ring. Â Now I may be wrong, so try to convince me otherwise so I shun the guy completely if you want me to. "
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His act is immoral because
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-it contravenes the agreement with the seller. This is why Paul Barnett et. al ran up against a team of lawyers when it came to the race tournament
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-He is attempting to sell something he doesn't actually own (as you heard on the Bombcast, and saw during the video, what he won was the ability to contact Bob, and at that point he would have received the non-transferable good.)
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-As Ryan said on the Bombcast, it wasn't actually self-interest, it was stupidity. You shouldn't try to sell something you don't own, you shouldn't disobey the terms of an agreement (in other words, you should be honest.), and even if you disobey the rational part of rational self interest, it's not in one's naked, short term, self interest to sell something you don't own right under the nose of the people who own it!
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Imagine if I walked into a 7-11, filled a cup with a slurpee, and then tried to pawn it off on people IN THE FUCKING STORE. In essence, this is what that Oliver guy did.
" @Hailinel: So the only real issue is the person announcing it? Otherwise he wouldn't be having this conversation? "It's that he was as brazen as he was about it, and failed so miserably. I'll be honest, if I had won the beta key, I would have to have done something else with it. I'm not a PC gamer, my computer isn't set up to run PC games, and to top it off, I have never once been able to stay attracted to any RTS game I've ever tried. I'm the last guy you want to give a beta key for StarCraft II. That being said, I wouldn't have sold it. I would have just said that the prize could go to someone else because I had no use for it.
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And even if I did want to sell it, how could I? The beta "key" was apparently just Bob's e-mail address and getting the right setting turned on at the server end. That's not a commodity that I could sell.
" @JJWeatherman said:Everyone at the panel and who watched the video already knew his name was Oliver. It's not as if they gave out his full name or site username or anything that would attract hate to him.And he didn't, that's a given. Am I calling him the Artful Dodger? No, not at all. I think he conducted himself in an idiotic way, and it's his own fault. However, there's absolutely no need to disclose his name like that, it's horrific. "" @Fallen189 said:
" Personally, it's fucking disgusting that they called him out like that. It comes close to breaking the DPA. He won it, it's his to do what he wishes with. Â I think it's foolish that he tried it, but it's his life. What if his PC can't handle SC2? What if he doesn't like SC2? "Then he can be smart enough to go about selling it in a more discreet/smarter way. "
" @JJWeatherman said:I don't see what's so horrific. It's the truth. It's not like since they said his name he's gonna get whacked by the mob or anything.And he didn't, that's a given. Am I calling him the Artful Dodger? No, not at all. I think he conducted himself in an idiotic way, and it's his own fault. However, there's absolutely no need to disclose his name like that, it's horrific. "" @Fallen189 said:
" Personally, it's fucking disgusting that they called him out like that. It comes close to breaking the DPA. He won it, it's his to do what he wishes with. Â I think it's foolish that he tried it, but it's his life. What if his PC can't handle SC2? What if he doesn't like SC2? "Then he can be smart enough to go about selling it in a more discreet/smarter way. "
" @Fallen189 said:Very true. Everyone that attended the panel knew his first name. But other than that and his physical appearance, no one knows anything about him (other than his apparent lack of knowledge regarding the acquisition and selling of goods)." @JJWeatherman said:Everyone at the panel and who watched the video already knew his name was Oliver. It's not as if they gave out his full name or site username or anything that would attract hate to him. "And he didn't, that's a given. Am I calling him the Artful Dodger? No, not at all. I think he conducted himself in an idiotic way, and it's his own fault. However, there's absolutely no need to disclose his name like that, it's horrific. "" @Fallen189 said:
" Personally, it's fucking disgusting that they called him out like that. It comes close to breaking the DPA. He won it, it's his to do what he wishes with. Â I think it's foolish that he tried it, but it's his life. What if his PC can't handle SC2? What if he doesn't like SC2? "Then he can be smart enough to go about selling it in a more discreet/smarter way. "
" @Fallen189 said:Come on. You know this community. How many posts have I seen in the last 10 minutes which say we should "Find his profile" or "Spam him" or "I hope he gets hit by a fucking car(Disgusting). Of course the majority of people are going to jump onboard the hate bandwagon." @JJWeatherman said:I don't see what's so horrific. It's the truth. It's not like since they said his name he's gonna get whacked by the mob or anything. "And he didn't, that's a given. Am I calling him the Artful Dodger? No, not at all. I think he conducted himself in an idiotic way, and it's his own fault. However, there's absolutely no need to disclose his name like that, it's horrific. "" @Fallen189 said:
" Personally, it's fucking disgusting that they called him out like that. It comes close to breaking the DPA. He won it, it's his to do what he wishes with. Â I think it's foolish that he tried it, but it's his life. What if his PC can't handle SC2? What if he doesn't like SC2? "Then he can be smart enough to go about selling it in a more discreet/smarter way. "
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I'm not particularly trying to defend him, or even cause argument. It's just that he's clearly too embarassed to come out himself and apologise, because you KNOW people would just call him out and give him a hard time. I hate to be the one who has to stand up for him, when it's not my right/duty/business.
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But when threads like this get made to publically out/name and shame a guy, that's just not very nice.
It's their key and their "contest" so they can give it to whoever they want under whatever terms they want. This guy was being what they call a "prize pig" in the radio business. Someone who has no interest in the prizes and run banks of phones rapidly auto-dialing into every radio contest they listen to simultaneously to get in before legitimate listeners. Some of them make their entire living doing this." Its a free fricken market to begin with! Even if its immoral, its way better than punching someone after a football game or conducting a dog fighting ring.  Now I may be wrong, so try to convince me otherwise so I shun the guy completely if you want me to. "
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Why is that a problem? Because if you're giving something away -- especially something like a beta key to a videogame -- you want it to go to someone that deserves and appreciates it as a reward for participating in your services or audience. You don't want the spirit of your gift to be molested by some dillweed that just wants to turn a buck on your generosity. If the guy didn't want the prize itself in the first place, why the hell was he competing for it? (I forget if there was an actual competition).
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If I had a couple tickets to an awesome concert and I gave them to you so you could go enjoy the concert, I'd be irate if I discovered that you immediately took those tickets and tried to make a few bucks off them instead of appreciating them.
" This whole discussion is worthless, does it matter to anyone if some guy called Oliver sold his StarCraft 2 Beta? Boohoo, big deal, let's try and raise the bar a bit with our discussions, for the sake of humanity.     "Well, I see someone didn't read the conversation before posting.
" @Lies said:I know he eats off the floor and tried to sell a beta key (that wasn't a key) within ear range of Blizzard staff. I feel pretty alright with making fun of him." @Fallen189 said:Very true. Everyone that attended the panel knew his first name. But other than that and his physical appearance, no one knows anything about him (other than his apparent lack of knowledge regarding the acquisition and selling of goods). "" @JJWeatherman said:Everyone at the panel and who watched the video already knew his name was Oliver. It's not as if they gave out his full name or site username or anything that would attract hate to him. "And he didn't, that's a given. Am I calling him the Artful Dodger? No, not at all. I think he conducted himself in an idiotic way, and it's his own fault. However, there's absolutely no need to disclose his name like that, it's horrific. "" @Fallen189 said:
" Personally, it's fucking disgusting that they called him out like that. It comes close to breaking the DPA. He won it, it's his to do what he wishes with. Â I think it's foolish that he tried it, but it's his life. What if his PC can't handle SC2? What if he doesn't like SC2? "Then he can be smart enough to go about selling it in a more discreet/smarter way. "
Wait, what happened? I saw the video and all, but how did the guy try to seel the key? And when did the GB guys talked about it?
" @JJWeatherman said:I wouldn't say out/name and shame. Like Lies said, everyone already knew his name from the video in question and no further details have been given out about him so I'd think of additional threads other than this it as more a betrayed community venting its anger. Unless of course there are specific hate/harassment threads for Oliver, I don't know, I haven't looked around. But if that's case yeah, that's wrong." @Fallen189 said:Come on. You know this community. How many posts have I seen in the last 10 minutes which say we should "Find his profile" or "Spam him" or "I hope he gets hit by a fucking car(Disgusting). Of course the majority of people are going to jump onboard the hate bandwagon. Â I'm not particularly trying to defend him, or even cause argument. It's just that he's clearly too embarassed to come out himself and apologise, because you KNOW people would just call him out and give him a hard time. I hate to be the one who has to stand up for him, when it's not my right/duty/business. Â But when threads like this get made to publically out/name and shame a guy, that's just not very nice. "" @JJWeatherman said:I don't see what's so horrific. It's the truth. It's not like since they said his name he's gonna get whacked by the mob or anything. "And he didn't, that's a given. Am I calling him the Artful Dodger? No, not at all. I think he conducted himself in an idiotic way, and it's his own fault. However, there's absolutely no need to disclose his name like that, it's horrific. "" @Fallen189 said:
" Personally, it's fucking disgusting that they called him out like that. It comes close to breaking the DPA. He won it, it's his to do what he wishes with. Â I think it's foolish that he tried it, but it's his life. What if his PC can't handle SC2? What if he doesn't like SC2? "Then he can be smart enough to go about selling it in a more discreet/smarter way. "
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People just need to vent, get it out of their system and leave it at that.
He didn't steal a key. There is no key, what he recieved was an invitation from someone on the Blizzard staff into the beta. It wasn't sellable. I don't mean morally, I mean literally. He literally couldn't sell it because there's nothing to sell, Blizzard guy would get an email from contest winner Oliver and his Blizzard account would be able to play Starcraft 2 beta. I mean, duh, why would a Blizzard beta have keys when keys can be hacked and duped? Of course its invitation only.
" Wait, what happened? I saw the video and all, but how did the guy try to seel the key? And when did the GB guys talked about it? "This week's bombcast.
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@Absurd said:
" He shouldn't have won in the first place, I mean, he dropped some of the noodles. "
Damn right! Although I was impressed when he ate it off the floor and still beat the other two's times.
"He didn't steal a key. There is no key, what he recieved was an invitation from someone on the Blizzard staff into the beta. It wasn't sellable. I don't mean morally, I mean literally. He literally couldn't sell it because there's nothing to sell, Blizzard guy would get an email from contest winner Oliver and his Blizzard account would be able to play Starcraft 2 beta. I mean, duh, why would a Blizzard beta have keys when keys can be hacked and duped? Of course its invitation only. "I didn't mean steal, I misspelled "sell". But anyway, thanks for clearing that up.
" @FLStyle said:Â Â "People just need to vent, get it out of their system and leave it at that. " Â It's not really any of their business though. "He makes the entire fanbase look bad, so it is. They're probably going to be less willing to do this sort of thing in the future because of this guy. Its fine that you don't care, but you still feel the need to let people know you don't care.
Considering he didn't know the prizes before he was picked, I don't really blame him too much for trying to get something from nothing. He could have been a little more "in the spirit of things" and given it away to one of the other competitors if he really had no intention of using it, but mostly I think the problem is the way he conducted himself. It's definitely a slap in the face to see someone trying to auction off the prize you just gave them right in front of you. Especially considering he didn't actually own anything but an e-mail address.
The guy is a fucking moron. He was trying to sell his beta key before he even got it and at the Blizzard booth at that. I mean you think he would be respectfull enough not to try and backstab Giant Bomb like that. Also he shouldn't have won anyway because he spilled stuff on the floor. Also if he doesn't like StarCraft then he should have given it to someone who really wanted it instead of trying to make a cheap buck or two. Don't you think it is wrong to try and profit off of a free gift given to you by Giant Bomb?
" @Branthog: There was a competition for it. Oliver was one of three guys picked from the audience. The nature of the prizes were not disclosed until later in the panel, however. If I had somehow been picked and won, I would have felt awkward since (as I mentioned before) I have no use for a StarCraft II beta key, and I don't have a 360, making a 360 version of The Beatles: Rock Band in my possession pointless as well. "Competing and then not wanting it is understandable, then. However, the classy thing to do would have been to give it back to the guys and tell them you aren't a Star Craft player and would rather they give it to someone else who can honestly appreciate the gesture. Then again, in this economy, maybe selling the gains for a profit is better than having to give handjobs to sweaty geeks in the PAX parking lot during lunch.
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Given your comment, it sounds like the dudes could have been a little less critical of him on the podcast or at least clued in on the full story before making him out to be some ungrateful swine.
Can I get a link to all this Oliver business? I know it's on the PAX panel part 2 video, but where is everyone seeing that he sold it?
" @TheMustacheHero: It wasn't revealed that he tried to sell it until the guys talked about it on Tuesday's Bombcast. When they were running through their time at PAX, the panel and contest came up, and that's when they mentioned it. "I see now, thanks.
" @Hailinel said:They actually didn't have as much of an issue with him being ungrateful (though that was certainly part of it) as much as it was the way that he announced his intentions publicly at the Blizzard booth at PAX of all places." @Branthog: There was a competition for it. Oliver was one of three guys picked from the audience. The nature of the prizes were not disclosed until later in the panel, however. If I had somehow been picked and won, I would have felt awkward since (as I mentioned before) I have no use for a StarCraft II beta key, and I don't have a 360, making a 360 version of The Beatles: Rock Band in my possession pointless as well. "Competing and then not wanting it is understandable, then. However, the classy thing to do would have been to give it back to the guys and tell them you aren't a Star Craft player and would rather they give it to someone else who can honestly appreciate the gesture. Then again, in this economy, maybe selling the gains for a profit is better than having to give handjobs to sweaty geeks in the PAX parking lot during lunch.  Given your comment, it sounds like the dudes could have been a little less critical of him on the podcast or at least clued in on the full story before making him out to be some ungrateful swine. "
I can imagine selling a beta key is somewhat legally grey. It can be considered similar to maybe buying tickets to something and then selling them for twice as much in front of the venue to people who're desperate to get in. You can't profit from someone else's game like that, it's morally wrong even if it isn't legally wrong and profit was obviously his goal, if he didn't like Starcraft or lacked the PC to run it he should've given it freely to a friend who wanted it.
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